Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Talya]

I don't think Talya is scum. 

 

Whilst happy to hear you say that, why do you think that?

[Leelou]

 

I don't think Talya is scum. 

 

Whilst happy to hear you say that, why do you think that?

 

 

The way you are trying to figure the game out. Seems more towny you than scum you. 

[michellem]

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

[Leelou]

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

 

 

You're town 9/10 times. 

[Talya]

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

 

 

I said before about it being difficult to find Loki and that they could be looking town. I have you as Town, but doesn't mean I don't think you can't be Loki. You would earn looking town. Anyone could be Loki, I said that because I had just named you town, but you are not off my Loki list, no one is :p

[michellem]

 

 

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

I said before about it being difficult to find Loki and that they could be looking town. I have you as Town, but doesn't mean I don't think you can't be Loki. You would earn looking town. Anyone could be Loki, I said that because I had just named you town, but you are not off my Loki list, no one is :p

 

Do you think I would

[michellem]

Ugh my phone autoposted wth

[michellem]

 

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

 

 

I said before about it being difficult to find Loki and that they could be looking town. I have you as Town, but doesn't mean I don't think you can't be Loki. You would earn looking town. Anyone could be Loki, I said that because I had just named you town, but you are not off my Loki list, no one is :p

 

 

Do you think Loki knows exactly the way he affects the game/? Do you think it's plausible that I would be able to guess correctly about NA's if I was Loki to start the conversation I did at the beginning of D2? If Loki is a superredirector, he knows parts. But would he know that Kiv forbids saying the exact results you get? Eld confirmed that he wasn't allowed to say so either. Every single thing I brought up he confirmed. Do you think if I'm Loki I would have all the information about how Kiv communicates with the ones who get results, to be able to fake it at the level I did?

 

You brought up the possibility. You gotta stand for it now.

[Lenlo]

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

 

Yes, cause that discussion really gave town alot of info.

 

I think your town myself Mish, but line right here isnt really a good argument against her.

 

My 2 cents btw, I would expect Loki to know what exactly it is he is doing, yes.

[michellem]

 

 

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

Yes, cause that discussion really gave town alot of info.

 

I think your town myself Mish, but line right here isnt really a good argument against her.

My 2 cents btw, I would expect Loki to know what exactly it is he is doing, yes.

Bold: Right down to the exact wording of Kiv's PMs?

 

And it gave us the info we can't be sure of f our actions hit the right targets. Pretty important info IMO.

[Talya]

Going to Spoiler this to make it easier. Tina there maybe questions inside the spoiler :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

 

The rest is people that I don´t have a feeling on or have mixed feelings about. I´m not good at big games so I have not focused on all players. 

 

Not sure why some disappeared. Add Dice to town and maybe Sili. 

 

 

 

This was my last list. 

 

I still feel that Oci, Wish/Celeste and Leelou are scummiest so far.

 

To Cory about voting Pral or Verb: I didn´t like Pral´s list (especially not those listed as mafia) but I´m hesistant to vote him since Oci is voting him. I´m not sure if he would vote a teammate that way. I could of course be wrong about Oci but he is still the scummiest player so far. 

 

If I "had to choose" between them I would pick Verbal. As some have said, he hasn´t hunted much so far. 

 

 

I really like Mish´s posts today. I agree with her about Wish/Celeste. I wrote about the cloud in my head yesterday. It´s like they put that cloud in my head with their posting, posting, posting without actually saying much at all. I hope you don´t get offended, I did not mean to, because it´s great that you are playing here. But I can´t see what you really think about anything. 

 

 

I sort of like Tress´ posts as well, but I´m not sure if it´s because she is town reading me or not. I often have a hard time reading her.

 

 

So new list:

 

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

Dice

Mish

 

Maybe town:

Sili

Tress

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

This is Tina's first and second list together (thank you for making that easy). Right from the get go you have Oci, Leelou and Wishleste as Mafia. This doesn't change much all the way through until after D2.

 

Why do you have do you have Mish, Tress and Tab on your town list? I think I saw a quick reason about Mish and Tress, but not about Tab, can you just expand on why.

 

So we have lost our cop, vig and doc in the first day. That must be some kind of record.

 

I didn´t get a result either. 

 

 

I wish Dice would be here more. He is one of my town reads but I haven´t seen much from him lately. For some reason, Dice thinks that I read him well, but I really don´t. 
 
Leelou talking about me being a possible lynch target earlier felt like pure omgus.

The underlined and the bold seem contradictory.  

 

Why do you think leelou talking about you earlier was omgus?

 

 

No, what I meant was that I thought he was town but wanted him to post more to be sure. He was town but not as town as you or Mish and with little posting it was hard to know if I was right or not. 

 

So JS votes Sooh with no reason. Tries to get her to share her thoughts, Then unvotes saying that she tends to not share thoughts until there are flips. i'm trying and failing to understand his process here.

 

Why did you vote her in the first place?

 

Interesting. When did this happen? I don´t have time to search for it. 

 

Also... I actually didn't realize before now that the game is based on Marvel's Thor, and not the original norse mythologi. Lol.

 

Me too. I just tried to not get annoyed by the English spelling of Tor and Oden. lol 

 

I'm just babbling here (yes, I'm putting off answering Wish' giant posts).

 

But this part you might wanna pay attention to. It's important babble.

 

I got a result on a player I did not target last night. This means we have a redirector or a busdriver. I'm not allowed to say what my result was or mention names. But the existence of a role messing with targeting is something everyone must take into consideration.

 

I usually don´t speculate much about roles or how things happens but in this game it will probably be necessary. A redirector makes it very hard. Maybe it will be more clear after this night. 

 

Well until we see if those of us who got a response back get the same type of response D3, it's hard to say if it's just our targets that's getting messed with, or roles.

 

Scenario A, targets, means:

I am a follower (this is hypothetical, I can't confirm exactly what kind of result I got, Kiv's order), I target player 1, but get randomly redirected to player 5 and get results about them instead. When Loki dies, I will get the results of the player I target.

 

Scenario B, roles, means:

I am a follower and I target player 1. But as long as Loki is alive, roles and results gets messed up. So we say player 2 is a vig and target player 3. Then after all NA's are in, they are put into random.org and changed around. So mine and player 2's roles get switched around. That means that technically I targeted player 3 with a vig kill, and player 2 targeted player 1 with an follower action, and get the result from that.

 

Did that make sense?

 

I see both as just as likely scenarioes. Ragnarok means complete chaos, after all. And consider the OP of the sign up thread where one of the JN players who played in this said Kiv had a "sick, sick mind to think up a game as this", we can't see anything as too unlikely.

 

 

 

 

i just had a fun little exercise making a color coded chart of people's reads lists (and/or compiling what reads they have given, if they didn't do a full list).
 
Very interesting. 
 
It also served as a quick mini-ISO for those who didn't actually do a full list.  This is going to help me quite a bit, I think.

 
Will you share? Would be interesting to see.

 

I tried my best to use the most current reads list and interpret colors to mean approximately the same thing... i.e. if someone clearly intended null, I used gray... null to town was a very pale green, slight town was slightly darker... I only used blue for those who actually specifically color coded them as blue... yellow I used as kind of an FOS/something doesn't sit right with me when nothing else was specified for that player... if someone didn't color code their reads I only used red for those they voted or stated they were willing to vote, varying shades of orange for scum reads.   Hydras I listed separately on the left column because they gave separate reads lists, but together on the top row, because they were counted together in the reads.

 

Not everything is going to be a perfect representation of D1 reads, but I did the best I could late last night.

 

 

Spoilered for big.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did this because, based on my character, I thought there was a fair chance that I might be vig (Thor was the other character that I thought fit better, depending on what roles Kivam decided to use), and if I was....well, I despise being vig, and I wanted to pick someone to target that half the game wouldn't yell at me for assuming - I knew who the people were that I felt least comfortable with, but I used this as kind of a measure of thread consensus.

 

I was also amused by the fact that this is probably the first time Lenlo has been read as town by so many people

 

I believe I will do it again for D2, because it helped me see the big picture, and trolling through people's posts for individual reads if they didn't do a full reads list forced me to take note of their content and helped me form more solid opinions. 

 

I'll sit down and go through thoughts in more detail after work tonight, I have less than an hour and I won't have to finish and post.  But I have a 4 day weekend, so yay for that.  I will probably be lazy as heck at least one day, but I'll try not to procrastinate as badly as I did last weekend.

 

 

Okay, this moves Tress up to greener town. I don´t think she would have made such trouble if she was mafia. This is great. From what I can see it´s spread out a lot. I find it weird that Oci´s train didn´t went further, seeing that a lot of people suspected him yesterday. 

 

 

[v] Oci [/v]

 

You mention this about Tress saying why she is town. However this post comes a while after you originally had her as town. Why does this list mean she is more likely town. Now that you have seen that Wish did a list and was Mafia, what do you think now about it?

 

 

 

Tina, please try and get an opinion on me at some point. I'm one of the top 5 posters, I've gotten plenty involved with most people in the game.

I find it difficult to believe you can't even place me in the null pile. It's honestly like your trying to ignore me

 

OMG! I´m so sorry. Clearly I forgot you. I thought I listed everyone. Sorry. I still haven´t read your posts more but you are not a top priority since so many have you as clear town. You can be light green for now.

 

 

 

Mish

Tress

 

Taborline

Sili - Sili is moving a little up and down on my list but I think I will keep him here. 

 

Eldrick - I need to take a look at Eldrick. His behaviour today made him look town but I haven´t any memory about what he did yesterday.

Talya - I had a town read on Talya yesterday but need to look her up again because I don´t remember much about what she did in the later part of yesterday. 

Snow - Just like Talya. 

Lenlo - Because everyone seems to town read him. And I haven´t seen anything scummy. 

 

Verbal - Still hasn´t posted much.

Sooh - I have really no memory of her posts what so ever. Update: Too neutral - D1 uncertaintly or trying to stay in the middle? 

 

 

Oci - The one I want to lynch the most. 

Leelou - Haven´t changed my mind about her either. 

Wish/Celeste - I should take a look at their list once again.

 

 

You still have the same people at the bottom here. You have mentioned why on Leelou and Oci and yet not much on Wishelste? In another post (similar to the one aboout without the post from Lenlo) you say you need to look at them again. What made you put them in the bottom from the beginning?

 

Did an iso of Leelou and will try to do my best to say why I think she is mafia. It´s nothing new (at least not much) but since it doesn´t seem to be clear. 

 

 

1. Leelou voted Cory because he said mafia might have had a qt for days. When Verb asks if it was a possible TMI she agreed. It´s a week vote. She agrees with that later when she says she was just trolling him.

 

2. Then she unvotes him after asking Verb if Cory is town or not. 

 

3. She said she wanted to clear Cory early. 

 

4. Later she said to me that she unvoted him because she has figured out how to read Cory.

 

So it was a week vote from the beginning. She says she has now figured out how to read Cory but in fact she relied on Verb reading him. And then she cleared him. That easy. (I don´t think was even a good read since Cory has acted that way earlier as non town but I´m not sure Leelou played that game.)It sounded fake from the beginning to the end.  

 

 

After this she followed Cory on Pral because she dislikes inactives. Her vote stayed because his list was meh and later she disliked that he wasn´t voting. Many voted Pral so I can´t hold this against her.

 

But she mentioned being happy voting me as well. When Cory asked what she thought of me she said that she had just been skimming but something felt off about me. Since I was the only one focusing on me it really looks like an omgus. 

 

Today she says that she dislikes that I don´t vote her and that I just arbitrary decided she is scum. Which is not true. Has she focused on anyone else today, someone that hasn´t suspected her? No. 

 

I will be looking at Leelou in a while. But this is your explanation on why you think Leelou. You do seem to have taken a good time looking over her and yet you haven't ever voted her. Only voted for Oci.

 

Mostly a copy of my old but moving Verbal down. 

 

Mish

 

Tress

 

Taborline

Sili 

 

Eldrick - I need to take a look at Eldrick. His behaviour today made him look town but I haven´t any memory about what he did yesterday.

Talya - I had a town read on Talya yesterday but need to look her up again because I don´t remember much about what she did in the later part of yesterday. 

Snow - Just like Talya. 

Lenlo - Because everyone seems to town read him. And I haven´t seen anything scummy. 

 

 

Sooh - I have really no memory of her posts what so ever. Update: Too neutral - D1 uncertaintly or trying to stay in the middle? 

 

 

Oci - The one I want to lynch the most. 

Leelou 

Wish/Celeste - I should take a look at their list once again.

Verbal

 

Here moving Verb down her list, otherwise nothing really changes. The one thing I find odd is that nothing really changes in her reads list. (apart from Verb). Things change once someone dies. She did say she would prefer a vote on Verb over Pral and yet never votes him. That can go in her favour, as at the time, she did not have Verb in the wolf pile. So she stuck to her guns.

 

Posted too soon. To the last quote - do you want me to vote you? Does Oci have a better role than you? Oci has been my main suspect so far and so I vote him. Might change today though.

 

 

About Oci: I looked at Tress´ chart again. A lot of people suspected Oci yesterday. It was only Celeste that townread him. But today most people don´t mention him at all. I find that strange. 

 

I can say for me it was a case out of sight out of mind, and he hadn't really done anything since D1 that I could remember.

 

I think this is the VC. 

 

 

Leelou (1) - Snow

WishCeleste (6) - Mish, Sili, Tab, Lenlo, Leelou, Tina

Verb (1) - Eldrick

 

 

So no, I didn´t hammer 

 

You came out voting Oci, and then changed to Wish. No 6 out of 8 not a convincing position. She was keen to look at those who hadn't voted, I think there were some people bussing this train. Her vote could be taken as bussing quite easily. She said as well that she thought Leelou was on there quite early, she was only just a head of her, so not really.

 

So I started reading from D2. I have kind of skimmed the thread to see what people said about WishCeleste and if/when they voted them. It´s quiet possible that I missed something, especially in the end since it were a lot of posts to read. When refering to D1, I have only used Tress´ chart. I have not gone back to see what people said about WishCeleste. I should do that but don´t want to now after reading over 50 pages.

 

 

Mish: Had WiCi as mafia on D1. Was the first to case WiCe during D2 (#1656), later made a case for them as Loki (#1915). Was the second to vote them after Sili. (Who voted, unvoted and voted again later. Definitely not on their team.

 

Taborline: Had WiCi as mafia on D1. In #1818 she answers a question from Wish, but later votes her #2002. Saying that her instincts hasn´t change. I would say that she is not on their team but I see others are questioning her. Why is that? Show me a recent post or write a new one. 

 

Lenlo: The first to question WiCi´s rb claim. Later votes them. Don´t think he is on their team.

 

Leelou: Questions WiCi around the time Lenlo did. Asks a lot of good questions. I would say that her posts are townie. Which is tough since I don´t think she looked townie at all before this. Would Leelou buss this way? 

 

Tina: Had WiCi as mafia on D1. Had them in her read since then. Had planned to re-read WiCi´s list but never got the time. Voted WiCi when she got back. I´m talking about myself in third person. :D

 

Eldrick: Votes WiCi in #2285. Had earlier voted Oci, Lenlo and Verb. (Not complaining about Oci or Verb.) What is odd is that he talks about Lenlo might being Loki after voting WiCi, which I don´t understand. Don´t see him trying to stop WiCi´s lynch (actually voting there) but could be bussing?

 

Snow: Had WiCi as mafia on D1. Don´t post at all but comes in and hammer. Seems to have too much information. Says he think they are a certain character, which they turned out to be. WiCe had earlier predicted that he would come in and hammer.

 

 

 

Verb: wasn´t there at all.

 

Oci: wasn´t there at all.

 

Talya: Seemed to not be willing to vote WiCi. In #1656 she said she liked Celeste better than Wish and that she needed to re-read. In #2014 she is uneasy by Sooh and WishC being in everyones wolf lists. She tries to explain that in #2061 but I can´t say that I understand that explanation. It´s first after WiCi is at L-1 that she starts to question them (but then doing it in many posts). She never votes them. I don´t like this at all. It could be that she was away when most action happened (like the rest of us Europeans) but it really looks like she did everything to not vote them.

 

Sooh: Didn´t vote WiCi. In #1912 she says that it could be that she doesn´t know them well that explains why she has Oci and WiCi in orange. As I posted earlier she later said (#2000) that they were orange because others though so and that it seemed like the entire town thought they were scummy. Again - is this a slip? Said she needed to re-read. Then she dropped out and AJ didn´t replace in until after the lynch. 

 

Tress: In #1927 she said that she had been uncomfortable with WiCi since D2 started and that they were good candidates for a lynch. In #1932 she says that Mish dropped the cultleader talk but WiCi didn´t. In #2121 she agrees with Lenlo that it´s wrong of WiCi to just assume that Loki has a nk. All of this looks good but she never votes. 

 

 

 

 

Okay, let me know what you think about this. Now I need to combine this with my earlier reads and what WiCi said about others. It have taken me some time to find this so I will take a pause and try to come back in the evening. 

 

 

 

 

Didn't like this, she was trying to make those that weren't on the lynch to be worse than maybe they were. I think there were at least two on that train. But she doesn't seem to want to look there. She is now changing her mind over Leelou here.

 

something Tina said about the way she plays, that she only goes after someone when she has some things to go at them with. If that is true, I'm not sure why she didn't go for Leelou, she seemed to pull up a case for it, but it lacked the confrontation. I can see what Leelou is saying about safe reads, I would use the words comfortable, they were similar to others, not much explanation why people were where they were. The last post feels clumsy somehow

 

Tina what are your reads list now?

 

 

 

 

TL:DR

 

Tina doesn't progress her reads at all apart form Verb, and that seems to be after after one else saying it. They are static, right from the word go. I would expect changes after people have died, but there isn't any. Her vote on WiCe could easily be bussing her teammates knowing they are going down. Other than that vote she has only voted Oci. She went for Leelou with quite some thought but at no time really pushed her by voting her.

 

I need to read Leelou, I was thinking before they could be team mates, but I'm not so sure. For now:

 

[v]Tina[/v]

[Lenlo]

I wasn't sure actions were going to be going to the right places since I signed up for this game weeks ago!

 

It's nothing new imo

[Talya]

 

 

 

And Mish could easily be Loki...

 

I go from being town to being Loki in two posts? Wow.

 

Riddle me this: If I was Loki, would I start the discussion on NA's D2? Give town information just like that? What would I earn from that as Loki?

 

 

I said before about it being difficult to find Loki and that they could be looking town. I have you as Town, but doesn't mean I don't think you can't be Loki. You would earn looking town. Anyone could be Loki, I said that because I had just named you town, but you are not off my Loki list, no one is :p

 

 

Do you think Loki knows exactly the way he affects the game/? Do you think it's plausible that I would be able to guess correctly about NA's if I was Loki to start the conversation I did at the beginning of D2? If Loki is a superredirector, he knows parts. But would he know that Kiv forbids saying the exact results you get? Eld confirmed that he wasn't allowed to say so either. Every single thing I brought up he confirmed. Do you think if I'm Loki I would have all the information about how Kiv communicates with the ones who get results, to be able to fake it at the level I did?

 

You brought up the possibility. You gotta stand for it now.

 

 

Mish, it was my point of saying no one is above Loki, in my books. It was more a "knowing my luck" you would be Loki. But no you are not ruled out :p don't like it, I don't really care.

 

As for what Kiv forbid or not, it depends how the game mechanics work, if Loki is included in the misdirected results, then yes he might well know that (And no I don't necessarily think that he does, before you jump down my thought for that as well).

[BFG]

Evening, think I'm going to be starting again from the beginning, I was only 20 pages in and I want to read with the recent flips in mind

[Andrej]

#1072 probably a good look for Lenlo

[Kivam]

Vote Count

Taborline (1) - John Snow

Talya (1) - Taborline

Tina (1) - Talya

[Taborline]

I voted Talya, Kiv :)

[Niniel]

You forgot to say I had them low on D1 and voted them, but you mention it for others. So not such a thorough job. Also I said I was liking Wish at one point more than Celeste. You got that wrong. I had them as wolf D1 and come in D2 and suddenly they seem to be everyone's bottom. So I questioned it, I also explained why I didn't vote, which you have also missed out. Setting me up here or what?

 

It took me hours to read those posts and make notes. As I said, I started on D2. The one I mentioned on D1 came from Tress´ chart that I haven´t double checked. If you had them as mafia in D1 I will have to look back at that later. 

 

My goal was to put together 

1. My old reads

2. What people said about WiCi

3. What WiCi said about others

 

Now I have my old reads and what people said about WiCi on D2. That is a good start. 

 

 

 

I have seen your post above as well and will answer soon. 

[Kivam]

I voted Talya, Kiv :)

 

Fixed, thanks

 

[Talya]

ISO on Leelou. I will spoiler this again, to make it easier.

 

 

 

 

Having read through my conflab with Leelou about Cory, I still get a towny feeling from her. In fact it is stronger when reading it in her ISO.

 

@Tina - I'll answer you in depth when I get a chance to ISO her. Right now, slightly uneasy which means she's most likely town. 

 

did you ever ISO me?

 

 

Leelou Who are the wolves iyo

 

I need to actually read the thread in detail. My weekend was pretty consumed with hanging out with people and then being distracted. There are a few people that are new that I don't know how to read yet (Ocicat/Celeste/Wishtree/Taborline). Like I'm not thrilled with Ocicat, but I'm not sure if that's because they are newish and still in that awkward phase. Tress hasn't really said much that has been relevant, she discussed my vote on you, but I don't like how long we've gotten into D1 and she's not memorable to me. I don't have the best of feels from Sili, but I haven't had the time to read his posts in detail. Eldrick is not really concerning me. If he's scum it'll become obvious soon enough. Taborline has a mentor, but for some reason it feels like she isn't utilizing him. I don't really see Talya as scum here. She's a bit more collected. Tina I have on my mind to read her posts in detail, I'm normally able to read her early. I have to wait for Verb to be engaging to make a decision. Snow seemed on top of things, more leaning townie there. Dice, not really sure if his true conviction is there or not. 

 

 

Her first views on people apart from Cory. I like the short sharp summaries on people, flows nicely. Tone good here

 

 

 

 

 

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

 

The rest is people that I don´t have a feeling on or have mixed feelings about. I´m not good at big games so I have not focused on all players. 

 

Not sure why some disappeared. Add Dice to town and maybe Sili. 

 

 

 

This was my last list. 

 

I still feel that Oci, Wish/Celeste and Leelou are scummiest so far.

 

To Cory about voting Pral or Verb: I didn´t like Pral´s list (especially not those listed as mafia) but I´m hesistant to vote him since Oci is voting him. I´m not sure if he would vote a teammate that way. I could of course be wrong about Oci but he is still the scummiest player so far. 

 

If I "had to choose" between them I would pick Verbal. As some have said, he hasn´t hunted much so far. 

 

 

I really like Mish´s posts today. I agree with her about Wish/Celeste. I wrote about the cloud in my head yesterday. It´s like they put that cloud in my head with their posting, posting, posting without actually saying much at all. I hope you don´t get offended, I did not mean to, because it´s great that you are playing here. But I can´t see what you really think about anything. 

 

 

I sort of like Tress´ posts as well, but I´m not sure if it´s because she is town reading me or not. I often have a hard time reading her.

 

 

So new list:

 

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

Dice

Mish

 

Maybe town:

Sili

Tress

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

Why are you not voting me? 

 

 

I can see why Leelou thinks this, because Tina has her at the bottom. I would think that too

 

I'm happy with my vote. Could entertain a Tina vote.

 

Voting Pral at this point, but could vote Tina, that corresponds with what she has said before

 

I actually really dislike that Tina isn't voting me. The fact that she has me so far down on her list is bothering me. I haven't seen her to do anything in regards to discerning my alignment. It's like she just arbitrarily decided I'm scum. I'm not seeing her #solve. I love that she's seen nothing to change her mind, well I haven't had the chance to post anything of substance yet since end of day yesterday. She also failed to answer Key's question directed towards her regarding my calling her out as OMGUS. She's not circling back and following up.

Only person I've had time to ISO yet and it's not looking good. Tina, care to actually ask me questions that mean anything or follow up on the ones you have?

 

As I said in Tina's ISO I can see where she is coming from Tina put a lot of effort into why she didn't like Leelou and yet no vote.

 

Meh

[v]Tina[/v]

 

This follows her thoughts

 

 

[v]Leelou[/v]
'Sup.

I don't think Tina is town.

 

 

Snip and to the point, I like this

 

 

I think Tina is town, but that she is tilted by leelou which is influencing her read to some extent.

 

I can follow her on her thought process though, and would like to ask lee some of my own questions.

 

Lee, why did you ask verbal what he thought of cory if you had already figured cory out? And cory is quite a complex character, so what made you certain he was town at that point in the game?

 

I can't really explain how I read people. There are things that some people say in certain ways that I just know if they are town or scum. It's how I read Verbal. I know him so well that typically by a few posts in on D1 I can tell if he's town. If I don't get that feeling instantly, then I fret about it most of the game. I don't always make my feelings known because I do know occasionally there are other factors: ie RL/work/etc.. The way Cory was posting was definitely town!Cory. I don't know if anyone else could see it, but for me it locked him in as town. 

 

I asked Verbal just to see what he'd say. I was trying to get a read on him as well - still unknown with a tiny bit of a town lean for egging me on.

 

There are reasons why I do what I do, it just doesn't always make sense to everyone else. I also just do not have time right now to follow-up/explain things. A lot is going on at work and in my life that has me preoccupied. I do promise to be on tomorrow and try. 

 

 

I can see this all now, I will be upset if she is pulling the wool over my eyes, but I think Leelou is town

 

Players

 

Mish - Have seen nothing scummy from Mish. She's floating out theories and trying to figure the game out. Not seeing this as coming from a scum perspective. 

Sili - What I've read of his posts (I just can't read them all in detail - that would take too long), they are coming from a townie Sili. 

Talya - I like how she's digging into the game and really trying to make sense of it. She's one of my stronger town reads. 

 

Tress - Can't fully clear you into town, I think it has to do with your interactions with Eldrick. 

Jon Snow - light town read. Being a bit antagonistic, not a scum trait though

Lenlo - seems to be really trying. Giving him some townie points for now
Eldrick - for now, on the town side with a .001% potential for Loki. 
 

Verbal - hasn't really done much past egg me on a bit. Uncomfortably null

Taborline - I really would like to see more from her. I do like that she is voting though, it will help place her as more days pass. 

Ocicat - seems to be an easy target. Not sure yet if it is their playstyle or if actually blatantly scummy

Sooh - just saw she is being replaced, meh feelings about her play so far though. Oh, it's BFG. Hi BFG. Are you replacing in as town, scum, or Loki this game? 
TinaHel - I've mentioned her enough. 
Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra] - picking and choosing what they answer, coming off as they don't really care how they are seen. The post that really stuck out was Celeste's answer to Mish. It didn't even touch upon most of Mish's concerns. 
 

Dead

 

Pral - Odin, Town Cop, Lynched D1

Keyboose [keyholder/cory hydra] - Jane Foster, Town Doc, Killed N1

Dicetosser - Thor, Town Vig, Killed N1

 

 

I fully acknowledge I might be misclearing some people. If it comes to it, I'll take a deeper look at my town reads. 

 

This misclearing, which was mentioned before. I don't have a problem in it, because your view should change as the game goes on, and she acknowledging that here.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Wishleste[/v]

 

Votes wish and then questions her. The position could mean a lot of things 5/8, but it doesn't come across as bussing as much as Tina's

 

 

 

 

TL:DR

 

Rereading Leelou: She is relaxed, happy to dig in where necessary, isn't phased by people digging at her. I can see her view on Tina. I can now add another town with Mish (could also be Loki, :p) I hope not, but happy with this slot.

[Talya]

I'm done with ISO's tonight, will be around for a bit longer, but I have been sat here since home from work, lol.

 

Won't be on as much tomorrow - College day :(

 

Kiv - is there a deadline yet?

[Niniel]

To Talya:

 

Mish and Taborline felt townie to me. They did a good job, both of them - posting, asking questions etc. 

 

I wasn´t sure about Tress (even though I thought her more town than mafia) but I didn´t thinks she would take her time to do that chart as mafia. It´s not the same as doing a list. Strange that you compare WiCi´s list with Tress´ chart. 

 

 

 

About my reads on WiCi. I went back to look for quotes but will give your the post numbers.

 

# 932 There is my case on Oci. One of the things I noticed was a connection with WiCi. That is why they were in my mafia list in #934.

 

Later I added that they posted a lot but didn´t say much (in #1209). Those two things was the reason for keeping them on my list.

 

In #1624 I thanked them for finally making a list so I could see clearly what they thought about people. I didn´t like some of their reads. I intended to go back to this list later but never got the time. 

 

When I voted them during D2 it was after their "rb claim". I also felt like they were constantly changing reads to hide their team. 

 

 

 

Yes - I took a look at Leelou since I found her suspicious. I thought her suspicious after doing so as well. But I still only had one vote. Oci was my main target. As you said yoursel, I voted him all the way until I voted WiCi. And I will probably vote him again today. 

 

 

Is number 6/8 worse than not voting them at all? 

 

 

I get that you don´t like that I think there are mafia outside the lynch since you didn´t vote him. Still I think it´s quiet possible that there were someone bussing them. Why I mentioned Eldrick and Snow. 

 

 

 

New list shortly. 

[Leelou]

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95348-ragnarok-game-thread-n2/page-123?do=findComment&comment=3543721

 

Leelou can you explain what it was you didn't like about Tina's list?

Yeah, they were all easy scum reads. Verb isn't really around, so he's coming off scummy. Cat was acting all weird, so easy scum read. I poked the CoryBear and made a read from it and people didn't really understand it, so I was scummy. Then there was wisheleste that was actually scum and the only scum read I was comfortable agreeing with her on.

Ok, the point is that there are 4 mafia and Loki.

 

Tina had 5 people she doesn't think are town, 4 mafia - Oci, you, Wishleste, Verb, 1 'null' - me

 

You have 6 people you don't think are town, 2 red - Tina, Wishleste, 1 orange - me, 3 'null' - Verb, Tabor, Ocicat.

 

Essentially swap the 2 of you and add Tabor to your list and you are suspicious of the same people. You have the same town reads, excluding the 2 of you and Tabor. So why is Tinas list 'safe' compared to yours?

 

 

I feel like you are a broken record with this. 

 

I've pointed out how the people she had in her bottom 4, I guess 5, I forgot Sooh, were all easy reads. Yes some of them are questionable, and I have them as null, but there is nothing really there to place them as scum. They are easy reads because they were the people, me included, that have done something scummy for one reason or another and as a scum it is easy to try to push lynches on them. 

[Niniel]

My old list.

 

Mostly a copy of my old but moving Verbal down. 

 

Mish

 

Tress

 

Taborline

Sili 

 

Eldrick - I need to take a look at Eldrick. His behaviour today made him look town but I haven´t any memory about what he did yesterday.

Talya - I had a town read on Talya yesterday but need to look her up again because I don´t remember much about what she did in the later part of yesterday. 

Snow - Just like Talya. 

Lenlo - Because everyone seems to town read him. And I haven´t seen anything scummy. 

 

 

Sooh - I have really no memory of her posts what so ever. Update: Too neutral - D1 uncertaintly or trying to stay in the middle? 

 

 

Oci - The one I want to lynch the most. 

Leelou 

Wish/Celeste - I should take a look at their list once again.

Verbal

 

This is what I got before re-reading D1. I´m not sure if I will re-read it all because it takes so much time but people can point out things and I can go back and see for myself. Also should take a closer look at WiCi´s reads but I don´t want to go over their posts again and I felt their later lists were mostly wifom. I´ll see what I can manage tomorrow. I will not be home much tomorrow since it´s my dads birthday but I should be able to get on at some point.

 

 

Mish - really townie all the way. Drove the WiCi lynch. 

Lenlo - liked him on D2 with his questioning of WiCi. 

 

Taborline - I did like her earlier and haven´t seen anything that want me to move her down. Again, what is the points against her?

 

Tress - Still think she is town but a little bit less since she never voted yesterday. 

 

Eldrick - Liked how he started D2 with confirming what Mish said about her na reads. Wasn´t fond of his WiCi interaction though. 

Talya - I liked her on D1 but I don´t like the way she handled WiCi yesterday. Not happy about her vote on me either. 

Leelou - I still think I have something right about my case but she did act townie around WiCi yesterday. Will see how she continues. 

 

Snow - That hammer was not good. "Guessing" WiCi´s role before the scene and the way they predicted he would come in and hammer. 

BFG - Sooh was very vague about WiCi. Before that she felt very neutral about stuff as well. Can you all take a look at #2000 and see if you think it´s a slip or not.

Verb - Will he ever start to play?

AJ - I already had him (Oci) as mafia but with the connection between him and WiCi, and they flipping mafia, I will contiune to vote him

 

 

 

 

[v] AJ [/v]

[Niniel]

 

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95348-ragnarok-game-thread-n2/page-123?do=findComment&comment=3543721

 

Leelou can you explain what it was you didn't like about Tina's list?

Yeah, they were all easy scum reads. Verb isn't really around, so he's coming off scummy. Cat was acting all weird, so easy scum read. I poked the CoryBear and made a read from it and people didn't really understand it, so I was scummy. Then there was wisheleste that was actually scum and the only scum read I was comfortable agreeing with her on.

Ok, the point is that there are 4 mafia and Loki.

 

Tina had 5 people she doesn't think are town, 4 mafia - Oci, you, Wishleste, Verb, 1 'null' - me

 

You have 6 people you don't think are town, 2 red - Tina, Wishleste, 1 orange - me, 3 'null' - Verb, Tabor, Ocicat.

 

Essentially swap the 2 of you and add Tabor to your list and you are suspicious of the same people. You have the same town reads, excluding the 2 of you and Tabor. So why is Tinas list 'safe' compared to yours?

 

 

I feel like you are a broken record with this. 

 

I've pointed out how the people she had in her bottom 4, I guess 5, I forgot Sooh, were all easy reads. Yes some of them are questionable, and I have them as null, but there is nothing really there to place them as scum. They are easy reads because they were the people, me included, that have done something scummy for one reason or another and as a scum it is easy to try to push lynches on them. 

 

 

I still don´t get the "easy lynch" thing. If people do scummy things it´s of course easy to see them as scummy. ???