[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Yates]

The only word I understood here was "personal" and "party". Having a good time with yourself today Yates? ;D

You don't know Matlock??

It's a courtroom drama that only old people used to watch.

 

The point is; he made an argument that he, by definition, undercut by his own characterization.

 

Considering how big this game is, there's a suprisingly small amount of talk... I really would've expected something else to happen by now. Why is so many laying low and being careful?

I suspect because of how big this game is. Like, you're in a hydra with Kiv because of the size of the game, right? We also have quite a few new faces that can't really participate in a lot of the meta discussion going on or weigh in on inside jokes.

 

While you are here, can you tell me in your own words what your hydra buddy was doing with the Pral stuff? The less filter the better. Also, can you give me your personal opinion on Lainey's lynch a hydra plan? Again, just want to know YOUR perspective without taking your hydra head into account. I think it will make you easier to read as an individual instead of as a two-headed monster.

[Kivam]

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me. Not crazily enough for the misread to be inherently scummy, though I'd be willing to bet scum will jump on the opportunity to keep pushing it, which has me looking cross-eyed at Zander. I'm fairly sure Cory, Clov, and Sili are town, leery of Hally, and otherwise pretty much blank on everyone else. Playing the game on tapatalk and between crises at work doesn't give me much room to do deep analysis of the thread. If i survive long enough that will change (it had better) but as a townie the only real reason i care about avoiding a D1 lynch is obligation to mish. No complex plans this game, no long cons, no false trails to lay ... no obligations to anyone but her.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

[Yates]

SHARE THE BACON!!!!

It's in my belly. With the cheese. And the eggs.

[Shad_]

But what really struck a chord with me was his reasoning for voting Pral. He dismissed my comments about it, but it's right there. He was trying to misrep Pral. It's great that he only played with him as scum.... but he can't make an accusation based on meta if he doesn't know Pral's overall meta. His responses ranged between.... oh I only played with him as scum so that's all I know.... to him claiming that his vote was just made for reaction since Pral hasn't checked in yet. Which I don't really buy. He could have dropped a nudge vote for activity rather than use a bogus meta reason for that vote.

Thought I'd look at it. Kivam ISO and ctrl+F Pral I see:

 

 

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v]. If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet. Pral, where're you at? Start laying some content down.

 

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v]. If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet. Pral, where're you at? Start laying some content down.

Do you think he is online but isn't saying anything?

 

Don't know, don't care (I don't use the "you were online but not posting!" angle for scumhunting). Just hoping to spur some content when he does get on and see it.

 

 

 

Believe me, Laine's lynch all hydras thing is null. Make what you will of people supporting it.

Like I said, I disagree with the concept. Laine is still squarely null right now. But I want to see where she goes with it. Kiv's supporting it cause... MATH!.... eh. As is him trying to portray a null Pral tell as a scummy. Zander charging in, agreeing with Kiv, and demanding a vote on Laine be removed is a head scratcher. I'm taking my time with him, though, cause judging by the last game we played together.... I don't speak Zanderlish.

 

Not my intent. I only played with him as scum, at least that I remember, so that's all I know. But I'm not a fan of lurkers of any alignment, so prodding for content is part of my D1 play anyway. I'd point you to AJ's Pulp Fiction game where I did the same thing ... but I was scum there, so that's not all that helpful anyway

 

One more time with feeling: i made no accusation against Pral. I prodded him to participate because if he happens to be scum this game, i want content to analyze. If I haven't made this clear enough in this and other threads, I DON'T BELIEVE IN META. Good players can stay consistent across alignment and bad players will get caught making mistakes with or without meta on them. Other than wanting to know if particular arguments are out of character for a player (if i start advocating no lynch D1, there's something weird going on), things like affect and tone are meaningless to me, because they can be faked so easily Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Cory, it wasn't a reaction test. It was a "come out and post" vote. As scum or town, I'd expect to get at least some content in response that i could *later* use to get a read of Pral. The only really overly scummy behavior would normally be entirely ignoring it, since that would suggest an actual dedication to lurking rather than just a pattern of behavior. Hence the vote - in a game this large it would be easy to miss a generic prod for content while skimming. Much harder to miss an actual bold red vote that's also counted on every vote count Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Last two came after your post. It all reads fairly consistent to me. Maybe an intentional misrep in his first post--it struck me enough to correct him at the time--but I don't see a range in the responses from there. I thought it was a misrep but didn't assume it intentional and it's the sort of thing people who've played with town!Pral can easily correct. I'm pretty null on it.

[michellem]

 

Why is so many laying low and being careful?

 

Gimme some names

 

 

I feel like I should've seen more from Talya, Lenlo, Wombat, Nolderf, Hallia, Razen, AJ, Snow (has he checked in yet? can't remember)... And I think it's strange that so few have looked outside of me and Kivam. We don't have alot of votes, but I feel like alot of the votes in place right now are just "I'll leave my vote here until a lynch really starts forming". Mafia is having a very easy D1, methinks. I put my foot in my mouth and that's where the focus has been. I liked that Seph was looking elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone else even read his post; even after my vote no-one has commented there. It's lazy IMO. Kiv and I get lynched, flip town, and where's town gonna be then? I think every single person in the game so far has commented that we are suss, but very few has placed a vote so far. And yet no-one is bringing up any other alternatives, so everyone is gonna pile on us when EOD approaches and say "oh yeah they're the scummiest thing all day after all".

 

I don't like lazy town, makes the job too easy for mafia.

[Shad_]

Case in point - look at how many ppl skimming this thread still think i was serious in my earlier reactions. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

If it weren't for recent memory I might have viewed the explanation as backtracking tbh.

[Yates]

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me.

Like who? Do you think it's intentional? What is/are he/she/they misreading?

 

Personally, I'm not worried about the hydra hunting stuff. That's a discussion we had quite recently [star Wars, I think?].

 

I also don't care about the vendetta thing; though I would have counted both of your votes from earlier when Kaylee asked instead. If you use vote formatting, I think it's a vote. And I don't think it's crazy for a mod to count it, regardless of the situation. People actually DO self-vote for whatever reason. So it's not unreasonable to assume that a vote statement formatted as a vote will be counted as a vote. So really, I think that's on you without knowing anything else about it - but I digress. I don't want to make an argument out of something that isn't really any of my business.

 

I *do* agree that the Pral stuff looks bad. I get that you prod inactives. I think you told us that was your Town meta when you voted for him as our team mate. I'm not even really bothered by the vote itself. What's bothering me is how you chose to explain the vote. If you said something as simple as "I picked a name out of a hat" or "Pral is the only inactive I know so I prodded him," then I don't think this would even still be an issue.

 

I'm not trying to gang up on you here. I just want you to understand at least where *I* am coming from so maybe you can help me understand where *YOU* are coming from. Thanks.

[michellem]

 

The only word I understood here was "personal" and "party". Having a good time with yourself today Yates? ;D

You don't know Matlock??

 

It's a courtroom drama that only old people used to watch.

 

The point is; he made an argument that he, by definition, undercut by his own characterization.

 

Considering how big this game is, there's a suprisingly small amount of talk... I really would've expected something else to happen by now. Why is so many laying low and being careful?

I suspect because of how big this game is. Like, you're in a hydra with Kiv because of the size of the game, right? We also have quite a few new faces that can't really participate in a lot of the meta discussion going on or weigh in on inside jokes.

 

While you are here, can you tell me in your own words what your hydra buddy was doing with the Pral stuff? The less filter the better. Also, can you give me your personal opinion on Lainey's lynch a hydra plan? Again, just want to know YOUR perspective without taking your hydra head into account. I think it will make you easier to read as an individual instead of as a two-headed monster.

 

 

Never heard if Matlock. Not American, remember? :P Thanks for dumbing down the sentence for me XD

 

Honestly, I have no idea what he wants with Pral, he hasn't posted much in our QT after the hydra talk, even tho I've been trying to ask him questions. I told him I thought it was a stupid post to begin with and to drop it. He has not, and hasn't replied to me. So I dunno if he's still emo and sulking or whatever. I'm annoyed at least.

 

I still think "lynch all hydras" is a stupid strategy and I've though so ever since Mynd introduced it last year. The "cutting down on posts to sift through" argument is BS; then you should lynch the top posters, not hydras. And it makes as little sense to choose hydras as a group as everyone who has an od number as their slot number, or everyone with an "a" in their name. Plus, it's not how I like to play mafia. I generally DGAF about the mathematical play, it's not my style. I'm an emotional gut player, not an analytical mathematical one. To keep bringing it up to me just disrupts D1 play. Instead of letting a conversation naturally develop, you force an issue that is very easy for mafia to stay out of or make themselves look good in. Arguing game mechaanics over actualy gameplay = BLEH. It doesn't help me the least in my style of playing. It just gives mafia an excuse to sit back and take it chill D1.

[Shad_]

Sili's looking pretty good for the immediate focus in game play. Slight disconnect in that he catches Sanders 'peek' as being out of character, but misses(?) that it's on his hydra.

 

Lenlo feels a bit snippy in his response to Sili about game related comments and then misses the hydra 'peek' as well.

Do you think missing a hydra pair early is a bad sign?  I didn't bother looking at the pairings out the door.  I dove in basing my thoughts on individuals and put them together along the way.

[Shad_]

 

I have a mild concern about a player but I am not going to air it out yet

 

The player I was concerned about was BFG.

 

At the time BFG had made a single post:

 

Good morning :)

 

Innocuous enough. I think this is about ~8 AM her time, so a checking in before work/whatever type deal. I expected she'd post a couple of times and chat around before her volume dropped off, as she's been very comfortable and very involved in her last handful of villager games. 

 

Nothing followed this. Again, not going to condemn someone who could be having a busy morning, IDK what people's IRL deals are, whatever. But it reminded me of something I had mentally noted down in 9 to 5 mafia when I was her mafia partner for a day (she subbed out around ~n1) - BFG has some trouble naturally interacting in real time with people as Mafia. IDK if it's just that little trigger in your brain that looks over a post and goes "should I post?" not hitting out of some weird self-consciousness, but I remember it there, and I remember in the one day I was playing with her I was making sure to talk to her ITT and give her lines to pursue because she wasn't really moving on her own volition.

 

She was more active in a different Mafia game - AH's Pokemon game - and I am going to look it over when I get time, but even know her contribution is one "larger" more succinct reads posts where she discusses various things (#582) but again is not really interested in communicating openly and in real-time. Reminds me a lot of Cass tbh - assumes people will find a wall of words / reads villagery and leave it alone for some time, but lacks the minute-by-minute commitment and willingness to relax and discuss ITT.

 

Not a condemnation and I want to to chew on it some more but if I would guess this is Mafia!BFG more often than Town!BFG by a fair margin.

 

 

I hereby accept you as town for D1 and generally love posts like this.

[Yates]

Never heard if Matlock. Not American, remember?

Matlock transcends Nationality. Like McGuyver. Or Mr. T. Also, he comes up a lot in the Simpsons.

 

Arguing game mechaanics over actualy gameplay = BLEH. It doesn't help me the least in my style of playing. It just gives mafia an excuse to sit back and take it chill D1.

Oh I agree here. There were a couple of people that spent too much time talking about how people "should" play the game, and I think that's a similarly easy place for scum to hide without providing real content. So I've noted it and continue to monitor.

 

SHARE THE BACON!!!!

I feel like I missed an excellent opportunity to use this gif:

[Kivam]

My computer chose today of all days to take its sweet time booting up. Fml.

 

Re who is misreading me - sili, clov, and basically anyone who thought i was pushing a narrative that pral is scum. I can completely see how my post could be read that way (pral lurks as scum so he must be scum now!) by people who haven't played with me much, but it's not what i meant (if pral is scum, i need content to catch him, so let me prod him for content).

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

[Zander?]

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me. Not crazily enough for the misread to be inherently scummy, though I'd be willing to bet scum will jump on the opportunity to keep pushing it, which has me looking cross-eyed at Zander. I'm fairly sure Cory, Clov, and Sili are town, leery of Hally, and otherwise pretty much blank on everyone else. Playing the game on tapatalk and between crises at work doesn't give me much room to do deep analysis of the thread. If i survive long enough that will change (it had better) but as a townie the only real reason i care about avoiding a D1 lynch is obligation to mish. No complex plans this game, no long cons, no false trails to lay ... no obligations to anyone but her. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

uncross your eyes imo as i started commenting on you pretty early.  only reason it took as long for my vote was this is my 1st hydra and i wanted to go over it with him..

 

stop acting emo/defensive.

 

build a case on someone man

 

its not hard.  but sense you dont seem to want to...you HAVE to understand where all the heat you're getting is coming from. especially with the Pral vote and explanation it was just...weird imo.

[Shad_]

 

Also something to note is that Pral wasn't the only player that hadn't checked in at the time either.  So it's interesting that Kivam singles him out.

 

I actually didn't think about that.  I'd have to check to see who else hadn't posted yet, but this could be a very helpful observation for later.

 

 

Really?  That's putting a lot of weight behind "If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet."  It wasn't a focus of conversation until other players made it one.  If Kivam flips scum I don't think it says anything about Pral let alone other inactives at this point.

[Shad_]

Meh I'll pick back up when I can, baby duty calls.

[Zander?]

@ Yates: I WAS PULLING THAT GIF UP!!!!! lolololololololol

[Zander?]

 

No kidding, Yates? People are misreading me.

Like who? Do you think it's intentional? What is/are he/she/they misreading?

 

Personally, I'm not worried about the hydra hunting stuff. That's a discussion we had quite recently [star Wars, I think?].

 

I also don't care about the vendetta thing; though I would have counted both of your votes from earlier when Kaylee asked instead. If you use vote formatting, I think it's a vote. And I don't think it's crazy for a mod to count it, regardless of the situation. People actually DO self-vote for whatever reason. So it's not unreasonable to assume that a vote statement formatted as a vote will be counted as a vote. So really, I think that's on you without knowing anything else about it - but I digress. I don't want to make an argument out of something that isn't really any of my business.

 

I *do* agree that the Pral stuff looks bad. I get that you prod inactives. I think you told us that was your Town meta when you voted for him as our team mate. I'm not even really bothered by the vote itself. What's bothering me is how you chose to explain the vote. If you said something as simple as "I picked a name out of a hat" or "Pral is the only inactive I know so I prodded him," then I don't think this would even still be an issue.

 

I'm not trying to gang up on you here. I just want you to understand at least where *I* am coming from so maybe you can help me understand where *YOU* are coming from. Thanks.

 

 

I like this post from Yates,

 

+ 1 Yates

[keyholder21]

 

Catch up WoT later. And hello. Zander's here? What about the other early morning people?

what happened to your fixation on hydras?

 

 

I like the idea of this question, but not when you asked it. She hadn't provided any reads at this time, so it seems a very off time to ask.

 

 

 

prolly a few more then that....

 

again with these types of comments!!!

 

this emo, AtE type comments are not a good look for you man.

I don't even know what to think. Kivam dropped me off a cliff.

 

 

i think hes a wolf.

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

be towny and hunt wolves

 

 

690 - that's neither emo nor AtE. It's not wanting to get sucked into a meaningless back and forth where the only point i can make is "you're wrong". There's no real utility in repeating that over and over, no matter how true it is. But you tell me - what would/should TownKiv do to respond to someone who is misreading his subjective intent? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Your reads are not progressing, nor are you making my job easier.

 

I do not know what 'subjective' content is. Fact is, one way or another, you misrepresented me. If you believe otherwise, you should be broadcasting your case.

 

Furthermore it is incorrect to presume a conversation is meaningless because you don't like the topic.

 

 

this ^^^^

 

 

and finally..... [v] Kish Hydra [/v]

 

 

All of this sounds uber fake.

 

*snip*

And I think it's strange that so few have looked outside of me and Kivam. We don't have alot of votes, but I feel like alot of the votes in place right now are just "I'll leave my vote here until a lynch really starts forming". Mafia is having a very easy D1, methinks. I put my foot in my mouth and that's where the focus has been. I liked that Seph was looking elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like anyone else even read his post; even after my vote no-one has commented there. It's lazy IMO. Kiv and I get lynched, flip town, and where's town gonna be then? I think every single person in the game so far has commented that we are suss, but very few has placed a vote so far. And yet no-one is bringing up any other alternatives, so everyone is gonna pile on us when EOD approaches and say "oh yeah they're the scummiest thing all day after all".

 

I don't like lazy town, makes the job too easy for mafia.

 

I don't get how you find it strange that you and Kiv are the main focus. Especially by now, since it's been commented on and hashed over by so many people. Of course it's going to be a focus for the thread.

 

I don't remember Seph's case, so I'll have to go back and see what it was.

 

1st Bold - you answered your own question in your very next sentence.  IF you flip town then the analysis goes to who commented, when they commented, if/when they voted, etc. Even being gone for awhile, I feel like you should know this.  

 

If we're being lazy, then take up the helm :p.

[Yates]

I like the idea of this question, but not when you asked it. She hadn't provided any reads at this time, so it seems a very off time to ask.

Why you gots to cock block, bro? Now any response he gives to my question on his motivation is tainted. TAINTED!

[keyholder21]

 

 

Also something to note is that Pral wasn't the only player that hadn't checked in at the time either.  So it's interesting that Kivam singles him out.

 

I actually didn't think about that.  I'd have to check to see who else hadn't posted yet, but this could be a very helpful observation for later.

 

 

Really?  That's putting a lot of weight behind "If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet." It wasn't a focus of conversation until other players made it one.  If Kivam flips scum I don't think it says anything about Pral let alone other inactives at this point.

 

Clov says later; you say "at this point". Calling this out seems odd since he wasn't talking about right now.

[Kaylee]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Hallia (1): Lenlo

Seph/Zander (2): Shad, ClovFG

Wish/Celeste (1): Sili

Nolderf (1): Laine

Laine (1): Wombicat

Kivish (3): Hallia, Nyce, Zander/Seph

Lenlo (1): CorKey

Shad (1): Kivish

 

 

Not Voting (9): Razen, Pral, Yates, John Snow, Beck, Nolderf, AJ, Talya, Wish/Celeste

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

No deadline has been set at this time.

[Shad_]

 

Clov - yeah, if he showed up immediately that would also have been a red flag. Same as if he posted just a "I'm here, caught up, be back later" post. But showing up and commenting on the thread and vote would be a null tell, since it fits equally with town and scum alignments. And since that's what i expect to happen, not a reaction test since i don't expect alignment indicators from it Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

If I'm interpreting this correctly, the entire thing was just so that he would post content when he showed up.  Pral is never a super high effort player, but I seriously doubt he was going to show up and NOT have content.

 

 

Good point

[keyholder21]

 

I like the idea of this question, but not when you asked it. She hadn't provided any reads at this time, so it seems a very off time to ask.

Why you gots to cock block, bro? Now any response he gives to my question on his motivation is tainted. TAINTED!

 

Because I want the.....I should probably stop here.

 

But is it really?

[keyholder21]

Also, I love Ron Swanson. And Parks in Rec in general :wub:.

[Zander?]

Also, I love Ron Swanson. And Parks in Rec in general :wub:.

 

+1 Ron Swanson GOAT

 

Also my post want fake.  it was straight and to the point imo.  not an uncommon post from me at all.