[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Hallia]

H'ok:

 

I just am not getting a good feeling from kiv atm.
And I'm liking these posts from Hallia and leelou.

I'm on my phone so quoting is especially difficult atm

 

 

I still need to finish my re read, but I'm feeling better on shad,tayla, and leelou.
Shad's post have seemed alot better her recently, and his analysis looks like town.
I liked Leelou's response to the whole soul read discussion and it makes me feel so much better about her.

Someone commented on sooh defending me, and on my re read I found it a bit odd. I will say, Sooh generally is very good at reading me, but it seems the white knight play, is being taken a little to far. I'm going to withhold judgement here until I fisnish

 

 

Im pretty lost on Kiv atm. I keep going back and forth.

I'm feeling much more confident in tayla and leelou, and strangely have leelou as my strongest town read. Her posts about were truthfu in my opinion, and even if she is wrong, she at least believes what she is typing.

Sooh, and Dice have fallen a bit for me, but I don't think I would lynch them today.

Bfg had a good post But if shad is mafia, who the partners would be.

 

Yup, it's clear to me who he read.  

[Hallia]

I was going back and forth between the two, and working, finally got around to posting it.

[Shad_]

H'ok:

 

I just am not getting a good feeling from kiv atm.

And I'm liking these posts from Hallia and leelou.

 

I'm on my phone so quoting is especially difficult atm

 

 

I still need to finish my re read, but I'm feeling better on shad,tayla, and leelou.

Shad's post have seemed alot better her recently, and his analysis looks like town.

I liked Leelou's response to the whole soul read discussion and it makes me feel so much better about her.

 

Someone commented on sooh defending me, and on my re read I found it a bit odd. I will say, Sooh generally is very good at reading me, but it seems the white knight play, is being taken a little to far. I'm going to withhold judgement here until I fisnish

 

 

Im pretty lost on Kiv atm. I keep going back and forth.

 

I'm feeling much more confident in tayla and leelou, and strangely have leelou as my strongest town read. Her posts about were truthfu in my opinion, and even if she is wrong, she at least believes what she is typing.

 

Sooh, and Dice have fallen a bit for me, but I don't think I would lynch them today.

 

Bfg had a good post But if shad is mafia, who the partners would be.

 

Yup, it's clear to me who he read.  

 

Sarcastic or honest opinion?

[Shad_]

Asking because you highlighted "I liked Leelou's response to the whole soul read discussion and it makes me feel so much better about her."

[Hallia]

Final Count 2

 

dicetosser1 (3) - Leelou, Thane Vakarian, Hallia

Kivam (6) - dicetosser1, Shad, Seph, Talya, Darthe, Kivam

Hallia (1) - AlannaLynn

 

Not Voting (1) - Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

 

I could go Sooh, or Darthe for today.  

 

Vote: Sooh

[Shad_]

 

Final Count 2

 

dicetosser1 (3) - Leelou, Thane Vakarian, Hallia

Kivam (6) - dicetosser1, Shad, Seph, Talya, Darthe, Kivam

Hallia (1) - AlannaLynn

 

Not Voting (1) - Sooh

 

6 to lynch.

 

I could go Sooh, or Darthe for today.  

 

Vote: Sooh

 

 

Why Darthe?

[Hallia]

He's close to the hammer, and has just been kinda sniping in. With Kiv not expecting to actually be it or nit, there is generally scum at the end of a wolf lynch

[Leelou]

Clearly I'm a dead woman walking. I shouldn't have put Seph as my top town read, I had a feeling he was cop after reading his posts. Sorry Seph!!! I'll try to make the best of this though. Can we not rush through day? I want to have a chance to get some ISOs done. 

[Darthe]

id vote hally but i dont have a reason.

 

 

He's close to the hammer, and has just been kinda sniping in. With Kiv not expecting to actually be it or nit, there is generally scum at the end of a wolf lynch

 

nvm, apparently that's acceptable behavior.

 

[v] hally [/v]

[Sooh]

I understand and accept that I'm hard to read this game. I was online 6 hours before the lynch yesterday (or 5? I'm confused in a different time zone than I'm used to). I didn't feel like I could make an informed choice between the two, so I decided to let those of you who have actually been here and had time to analyze decide who goes. 

[Leelou]

Leelou

 

Hallia - on Tina lynch, not on Kiv. Knda floating along

 

Darthe - lackluster, but seems town in this instance

 

Thane - liked his participation levels, could be misclearing him though

 

Laine - some inconsistencies: one point leaning scum on Shad, then she agrees with Shad on points on Tina, votes Tina, doesn't mention specifics, then Shad is the scummiest person. Still not best of feels from her. 

 

Dice - Pretty sure I've gone over Dice enough

 

Shad - Feeling better about his posts from start of D2

 

Talya - Getting a townie vibe from her posts

 

Sooh - defended Seph, on Tina's lynch, but not on Kiv's lynch, overall not much presence in the thread

 

Dearly Departed

TinaHel - dead town - lynched D1

BFG - dead town - killed N1

Kivam - dead scum - lynched D2

Seph - dead cop - killed N2

 

[unvote] [v]Laine[/v]

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.2

 

Sooh (1) - Talya

Hallia (1) - Darthe

AlannaLynn (1) - Leelou

 

Not Voting (6) - Hallia, Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, Shad, Sooh

 

5 to lynch.

 

Deadline: 9am PST Friday August 14

[Hallia]

I voted Soob

[Hallia]

Sooh*

[Darthe]

Sure, why not?  [v] laine [/v]

[Shad_]

And I have a vote on Hallia

[Andrej]

My bad - let me recheck.

 

Sort of all over the place tonight

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.3

 

Sooh (2) - Talya, Hallia

Hallia (1) - Shad

AlannaLynn (2) - Leelou, Darthe

 

Not Voting (4) - Thane Vakarian, AlannaLynn, dicetosser1, Sooh

 

5 to lynch.

 

Deadline: 9am PST Friday August 14

[Leelou]

And I have a vote on Hallia

 

Thoughts on Laine? 

[Sooh]

I thought Hallia had more votes. [Vote]Hallia[/vote]

[Sooh]

Not working? I have to try again later from my computer

[dicetosser1]

vote Darthe   time to start making sense dude

[Shad_]

 

And I have a vote on Hallia

 

Thoughts on Laine?

 

 

Alright so in her first big catch-up she's questioning Kivam, thinks he's twisting Seph's words regarding "reads". Notices that his TMI argument is pretty bad. It's a good catch.  She likes Tina even less for voting Seph based on it and ends up voting her a few posts later.

 

Then this post:

 

 

 

 

Catching up.  I see from the opening posts that Tina is a dead townie; that wasn't anywhere near on the radar when I signed off for Shabbos so I'm going to read through the thread and react to posts as I see them to see if that helps make sense of it.

 

 

 

 

ehh, I think you spilling the beans, had the dissuade factor. not sooh, nudging shad.

 

All due respect, Seph, this is silly.  Once Player A (Shad) has gotten pressure for voting Player X (You), Player X is no longer low hanging fruit and a cautious mafioso isn't going to come piling on to a bandwagon.

 

 

 

 

@BFG, because the "0-2" implies an assumption that they were actually attempted reads - i.e that darthe is town Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I really dislike this post by kiv.

darthe posted them, so they are reads. apparently something you forgot while interpreting my post for me is MAFIA have to make reads as well!

I never once have called darthe town, and no it does NOT imply that.

[unvote]

[v] kiv[/v]

 

 

And this is also silly.  (Not the vote, but the thought process).  Mafia members don't make or post "reads". Mafia members actually know the alignment of every player in the game, so anything couched as a read is nothing of the sort; it's a fake read (whether calling someone townie or scum).  But I'm getting the sense that you either haven't thought through the semantics of it or wouldn't care enough to make sure your post was clear, which would make that a null tell rather than potential TMI

 

 

 

I disagree. 1) townies dont know who the scum are. some people   and this relates to your confirmed townies call list thing   want people to give their reads so they can hold them to those and use it as a baseline to watch how they develop/change etc. therefore scum need to give reads to appear like everyone else. 2) Scum still have to make reads. how else do they pick out the cop/doc/whateva before a claim? 3) if you make no reads in thread  or you fencesit on reads all the time  you get lynched. therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched.

 

the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg

 

re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for

 

what concerns me is I think you know this. I shouldnt have to tell you this

 

This reads to me like deliberate misinterpretation and spin. I really don't think anything is being spun here, and I'm going to respond because I agree with Dice on this front. The problem is that you two are speaking different languages here

 

1) Everyone claims to be making alignment reads.  But only townies actually make alignment reads.  Scum fake alignment reads.  That's not a distinction without a difference; inconsistencies and other nuances are key to identifying fake reads and catching scum. I can concede this point that there are differences between town and scum making those reads, but experienced scum will try to make those reads as authentically town as possible so that there is little discernible difference between the two. Therefore, technically BOTH are making reads in that one is going through the process to figure out the read and the other is going through the process to fabricate how to make the read sound authentic. 

 

2) Equivocation.  Alignment reads and role reads are two completely different things.  And in a game like this, with only a 1x cop and no doc (and yes, until proven otherwise I'm assuming scum didn't do something stupid with their role selections), role reads aren't as important for scum until much closer to endgame. I agree to this point.

 

3) "therefore scum make reads to avoid getting lynched."  No. No, no, no, no, no.  Scum fake reads to avoid getting lynched. I think this is a semantics issue here. Scum still have to make/fabricate reads, whether they be real or not.

 

4) "the difference is they make informed reads and those are often fairly consensus. Every single scum in the game is gonna town reqad BFG fro eg".  Sure.  Because I guarantee you BFG is the N1 kill if she's actually a townie.  Clear consensus town, not a whiff of suspicion headed her way - and that means that unless she's scum, scum have no reason at all to keep her around.  Of course, that could lead to a WIFOM, and you all know how much I love those when I play as scum, but that doesn't seem to be the way most of DM plays as scum these days from what I've seen, so ... yeah.  I'm assuming BFG isn't going to be around very long. BFG doesn't have to die N1. She was consensus D1 in Harry Potter mafia and led the lynch on Mafia!Dice, AND was town Seer, so that isn't necessarily the case. Depending who is on the team, they'll go for consensus townie or threat to mafia

 

5) "re mafia knowing alignments   in this game you are correct but not in all games. the dont know roles however and thats what they are looking for" This, right here, was the pingiest of all parts of your post.  So I'm right about scum knowing alignments in this game (which is the one we're currently playing) but you're looking to argue with me about whether that's true in all games?  Who the hell cares?  If this was a mafia theory thread that would be a really excellent point - but in a game thread, where all you should be caring about is how to approach this game we are currently playing, it makes no difference at all.  This reads like pure spin and an attempt to throw as much suspicion at me before deadline on a D1 where you know I can't come back and respond before getting lynched.  I have no idea yet how close that came, but it's scummy as hell and you are immediately at the top of my personal suspect pile. This is blowing it way out of proportion because I don't think that it was the intention at all when Dice made his post (granted I cannot speak for him, but I believe I'm thinking along the same lines as him). Several of us wanted clarification on an assumption you made about the meaning of Seph's OP, where he discounted it as meaning what you believed by returning a vote on you. What is being done as a result is clarification of whatever misinterpretation of semantics that is going on, not trying to lynch you as a result of it. What bothers ME is that you're using this spin on words to in turn FOS Dice for it. I don't see how Dice is spinning anything to try to discredit you in his post, but him trying to clarify the gap between what you think.

 

 

 

 

And BFG is looking good, loving the questioning

 

I agree with this ... which makes me think BFG is likely dead tonight.

 

Interesting strategy question - in a game like this, with likely no doctor, is announcing our town reads a particularly good play?

 

 

 

as above  yes  gives a baseline to look at people on. If i list BFG as town then suddenly start voring her for no apparent reason i get questions to answer as to why. this allows people to get a bead on me.

 

Again, pingy as hell.  In a game with no doctor, consensus townies - which are the most important players to have alive at endgame - are dead meat.  Easy kill targets, to make LYLO and MYLO go better for scum.  Personally, I'm going to treat this game like my Avatar game - I'll be coming after even the people I think are the clearest townies because I want to give them a bit of cover.  I think we all ought to be identifying our scumreads and shutting the hell up about who we're most certain is town.  It's going to be a hell of a lot harder for scum to identify and kill consensus townies if we do it that way - and the "of course we should be naming townies" response from you (and Laine) could very easily be scum trying to ensure a clean kill list.  Do. Not. Like.

 

I don't see the point here. I use town reads from those I'm reading as town to narrow down my POE for scum. It feels to me like you're trying to scare us into having no clear townies and muddling reads by spreading suspicion which I'm not sure I agree with. It's one thing in Avatar where you're protecting a specific player, but another where we are scum hunting for a team to determine who they are connected with.

 

At the same time I am intrigued by the concept and would like to know how this would work in action but not totally comfortable with it.

 

 

 

 

 

It's pretty fantastic honestly. She's calling Kivam out for all the right reasons. I only caught the last part ISOing Kivam because he quotes it separately (Laine, you asked what purple was about in my other post; it was about this), but from top to bottom I love this post.

 

But then this happens:

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see the point here. I use town reads from those I'm reading as town to narrow down my POE for scum. It feels to me like you're trying to scare us into having no clear townies and muddling reads by spreading suspicion which I'm not sure I agree with. It's one thing in Avatar where you're protecting a specific player, but another where we are scum hunting for a team to determine who they are connected with.

 

At the same time I am intrigued by the concept and would like to know how this would work in action but not totally comfortable with it.

Not so hard to understand. We post our scum lists, and keep our townies to ourselves. You can still use reads from people you are townreading to inform your own analysis - if someone you trust doesn't share your scum read on player X, take a second look - but you don't hand scum a prioritized kill list.

 

I might try it in favor of something new, may be awkward.

 

link Reminder to go back to this lynch analysis

 

I'm sorry I can't respond better right now, I'm on a time crunch because I need to get ready for work soonish

 

 

 

And I didn't see this one when I was looking at responses to Kivam's no town idea. Laine had pressed Kiv more on it, but she ends up willing to consider it? What worries me more is I think she might have really gone through with it. I don't notice positive feelings about anyone afterwards until Kiv is gone.

 

So Laine had a good go at Kiv.  She recognized what was scummy about him and called it out, pretty much nailed the big issues where they pertain to Dice.  She didn't pick up on where Kivam did the same to me, maybe because she was scum reading me so it didn't jump out at her?  I didn't think her initial comments on me matched up to how she understands my game, but her thoughts on a reread were pretty sound and I don't have any issues with how she's been responding to my questions lately.  Her tone is pretty solid and it can be as scum, but it struck me enough in this game to back off of her D2.  I think it's possible I'm just seeing disengaged Laine where I'm used to seeing town leader Laine.

 

My issues are all situational.  She votes Tina for supporting Kiv's bogus TMI argument but Kiv ultimately gets off the hook.  I'm vocal about lynching Tina D1 and I'm immediately the target D2.  She's not paying as much attention when she first reads me and it ties her case together.  She finds a lot of the scum on Kiv but he's not a prime candidate for her vote.  Kiv immediately rips Dice's resistance to the no town idea to shreds but persuades Laine to move from resistance to an acceptance of the idea.  Kiv and Laine both call each other scummy but treat each other more as null and neither ends up in the other's WTL pile.

 

Basically what happens looks bad.  But Laine makes a lot of really good points about Kivam.  I definitely have to look at Hallia and Sooh yet before I go there.  I think if Laine flips scum Hallia's pretty much in the clear, because if Laine wanted to get credit for bussing a team mate she could have accomplished it with Kiv and fell back on some pretty good arguments to make the vote seem legit.

[Sooh]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Finally at a computer so I can do this right. 

[Leelou]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Finally at a computer so I can do this right. 

 

Why?