[Pick Your Poison] Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game Over

[Shad_]

Anyway here's where I'm at: The consistency in what Kivam says is so immaculate that I want to treat it as null. He puts more thought into what he says than I would reasonably expect out of anyone regardless of alignment. I don't see much clarity in how he makes his reads though.

Initially he finds my Seph vote null pending further information. He doesn't like me for the sentence "He got on Sooh for sussing me over the Seph vote" and calls it a deliberate misinterpretation, then votes me based on my Seph vote D1. He doesn't like me for interpreting his "fake emo" as reaction fishing and deriving a town lean from it, and when I ask him a question based on a misread of a confusingly worded statement, I am deliberately misinterpreting him again.

Dice he doesn't like for the "scummy push on a player who had drawn a lot of heat, without (at the time) a strong other lynch candidate drawing votes, and who could not respond" interjected when Kivam was talking with Seph. He sees it as "deflection and distraction." He also hates Dice's reaction to the 'don't post town reads' idea.

Seph he reaches a slight town read on. Wants to lynch him later, quotes BFG's concerns and doesn't offer his own that I saw save what he'd temporarily tucked away as derptown earlier (the TMI).

There's no real explanation present in any of this. He focuses on a few minute semantic issues and enters very narrow tunnels cased in very large piles of words. He doesn't actually explain why he thinks my misreads are deliberate misinterpretations. The initial one he called out--my misunderstanding of his Sooh comments--was committed by a number of people. My Seph vote is null to him before that. He does explain why he thinks Dice's misread constitutes a deliberate misinterpretation, and it's not a terrible argument except that I think he inflates casting suspicion into a scum mate bailout and mislynch push. Regarding 'don't post town reads', he treats Dice's opinion more harshly than others but doesn't explain what makes his stand out. There is a pretty distinct difference in tone between how he addresses Dice and how he addresses Laine on the subject, despite scum reading both of them for it vs no comment on Hallia and town on BFG.

Besides that, I think that not sharing town reads is a terrible idea and hate the fact that he's going through with it.  It's an incredibly gutsy move as scum, but it's anti-town as anything.

People who actually know him can clarify a few things for me:

Is Kivam prone to tunnel once he thinks he's on to someone--or at least, treat seemingly benign statements from them as scum tells at that point? Does he normally focus on a few points of minutia to develop his reads? And has he ever suggested not posting town reads in other games? Does it make sense coming from him?

[v]Kivam[/v] I want people to take a serious look at him. I'm not locking that vote in definitively, but I feel pretty good about it pending feedback from people who know him and a read of his ISOs. (I see he didn't do one of me, his top scum read...)  I want to re-read his focus players myself before diving in to his analysis.

 

Leelou - Asking questions, looking around, not posting a bunch of irrelevant chatter, snippy tone came out but seems to be when she thinks she's on to someone here, not when she thinks someone is on to her. She's come out more D2 and it's different from Star Wars in a pretty positive way.

Sooh - Still seeing a different tone from her scum games
Seph - Treating recent inactivity as null
Thane - The 2x vig claim on D1 is a weird move and I think the likelihood of scum going there is small

Talya - Will ISO tomorrow, nothing's caught my eye to bring her down
Darthe - Rather eventless day, meh
Dice - Will ISO tomorrow and take other people's opinions into consideration more than usual, hesitant to draw conclusions right now, I don't trust Kivam at all and I think he laid on the Dice pressure first
Laine - I see possibly scummy motives behind what she's doing, but not scummy tone. She can fake her tone well to a point, but our exchange N1 felt just a little too Laine.  She has me second guessing. I like that she challenged Kivam's 'no town reads' idea. I'm not sure what to make of Kivam responding to it with explanations when he responded to Dice with accusations.

Hallia - The slot has been dead weight, the entirety of her comments on me were "Not liking Tina or Shad atm" and "Shad was my other suspect yesterday, and his posting hasn't changed my mind /vote", it's almost twtbaw. I want to give her a chance before lynching a possible town known for being quiet. But that's not been her town game of late and I'd take her out over a no lynch.
Kivam - See above.

[Shad_]

Aaaaaand sleep.

[Sooh]

@ Sooh, I never said I thought Seph was your team mate. If you are wolf then hard defending someone as town is easy as you KNOW his alignment, if he is town.

Oh really? From what I read you seemed to be suspecting him too. I guess this leaves you with wifom. I have told you what I think about Seph. I have been good at catching him in the past, so unless something had changed drastically lately I don't think he's mafia this game. 

 

Another question Sooh, how are you seeing Seph as still town if his posting has changed a lot and he is mostly absent from the thread?

Changed a lot? How do you figure that? I have to be honest and say that I haven't noticed a change. Might be because I'm travelling and only able to give this game part of my attention, but I still don't see anything that makes me want to lynch him. 

[seph]

Yea, I'm going with my initial day 1 read. Shad the poat above I absolutely love. It's a little bit long winded. But I love the info on kiv, and the reads list is pretty spot on. I'm going to look back on your last list to see how it progressed, but I think your town.

[seph]

[V] kiv [/v]

After reading kiv, bfg, and tina I feel comfortable with my vote here

[alannalynn]

[v]Hallia[/v]

 

Joke to content ratio off.

 

Also willing to sheep if a better case comes along.

 

Unsure on Kivam. Need more time, probably don't have enough though.

 

Uncomfortable with my POE pre-Hally vote. Doesn't seem right, will reevaluate when I've had more than 3 hours sleep.

[alannalynn]

Too many nulls, not enough scums

[alannalynn]

Online for 20 more minutes if anyone wants to talk.

[Leelou]

Online for 20 more minutes if anyone wants to talk.

 

Not enough coffee yet. Today is going to be rough. Hi

[Kivam]

Online for 20 more minutes if anyone wants to talk.

Morning

 

I've got court this morning, so I'll be on with substance later today.

[alannalynn]

I'm on my way to bed... I had some ice cream though, very yum

 

Thoughts on Hallia? Her ISO is like 10 posts

[alannalynn]

I hate overtime weeks. I already feel like keeling over

[alannalynn]

 

Laine - I see possibly scummy motives behind what she's doing, but not scummy tone. She can fake her tone well to a point, but our exchange N1 felt just a little too Laine.  She has me second guessing. I like that she challenged Kivam's 'no town reads' idea. I'm not sure what to make of Kivam responding to it with explanations when he responded to Dice with accusations.

Explain Shad? What do you mean by my tone?

 

Not sure I agree with Leelou as your top town read. I think Hally has/had her there too. I'm not seeing it yet.

 

I'll go back to those other things from earlier and respond when I feel like it.

 

.

[alannalynn]

Surprised Shad hasn't questioned me about the difference in my playstyle / activity. Yet he's talking about my tone being townie and me being unable to fake it? Weird

[Leelou]

I'm on my way to bed... I had some ice cream though, very yum

 

Thoughts on Hallia? Her ISO is like 10 posts

Underwhelming

[alannalynn]

 

I'm on my way to bed... I had some ice cream though, very yum

 

Thoughts on Hallia? Her ISO is like 10 posts

Underwhelming

 

Sheep me?

[Leelou]

 

 

 

I'm on my way to bed... I had some ice cream though, very yum

 

Thoughts on Hallia? Her ISO is like 10 posts

Underwhelming

Sheep me?

I don't like defensive/reactive dice. Willing to change later.

[Leelou]

 

 

Laine - I see possibly scummy motives behind what she's doing, but not scummy tone. She can fake her tone well to a point, but our exchange N1 felt just a little too Laine. She has me second guessing. I like that she challenged Kivam's 'no town reads' idea. I'm not sure what to make of Kivam responding to it with explanations when he responded to Dice with accusations.

Explain Shad? What do you mean by my tone?

 

Not sure I agree with Leelou as your top town read. I think Hally has/had her there too. I'm not seeing it yet.

 

I'll go back to those other things from earlier and respond when I feel like it.

 

.

I'm not really sure how my crankiness turns into a read, I get grouchy as either alignment.

[Darthe]

Id vote kiv

[Hallia]

Nooe, Leelou has not ever been my top town read. Could vote Dice or Shad at this point. The defensiveness he is displaying is coming off as scummy to me.

[Hallia]

Laine, I don't understand the joke ratio thing, I don't think other than in maybe my first or second post there has been a "joke"

[Leelou]

It feels like this game everyone is just making stuff up. 

[Hallia]

LLL Leelou!

 

(There, a joke for Laine)

[Kivam]

I'm on my way to bed... I had some ice cream though, very yum

 

Thoughts on Hallia? Her ISO is like 10 posts

 

Will do her next, after responding to a few more recent posts.  For those wondering - no, I won't be ISOing Shad.  I don't have the time today given the level of posting he's done and I'm sufficiently confident in my read to leave my vote there based on it.  Will start working on a Shad ISO after I've looked at some of the people I don't have a strong read on yet and if we both survive to that point.

 

[Kivam]

as for 629 thats me poking at BFG for not doing something to Shad that she did to me last game. Its not defending Shad.

Wait, what?  Pretty sure you mean 623 (629 is a post by BFG).  In that post, you quote BFG's ISO of Shad, which BFG concluded with "I kind of expect Town!Shad to be more proactive than this. ... I think Shad just dropped in my list."  You highlighted a single sentence in that ISO summary in giant red letters (ignoring the rest) and said "just pointing out thats what you lynched me for last game."  You didn't comment on Shad at all (again, a player you had earlier identified as suspicious) and instead poked at BFG (who by that point was the towniest townie who ever towned).  That's soft-defending in my book - you're trying to shift attention away from Shad not by engaging with the content of the case against him, but by pushing back at the player making the case.  It's the same behavior you're displaying with my push on Shad - no engagement with content, just throwing shade my way.  So the "It's not defending Shad" thing?  Yeah, no, not buying that at all.

 

590:

 

dicetosser1, on 09 Aug 2015 - 6:54 PM, said:

i thought sooh sounded light hearted at game start which is a good sign but i dont have a lot of memory of her. Whether thats my fault or not im not sure

 

Hally  i dunno. i noticed one post where she was kinda sus on me but i dont know why other then that i feel like its just been fluff pieces.  I sux at reading hally tho

 

you migfht wanna consider context. I was specifically asked for thoughts on those two.

 

 

 No kidding.  That makes it worse, not better, because instead of simply being a guy playing his own game and not seeing/responding to analysis requests, you picked and chose.  You were specifically asked for thoughts on Hally, Sooh, and Shad, and while you were happy to give thoughts on Hally and Sooh, you said nothing about Shad until Alanna gave you a second push.  Would be one thing if Shad just hadn't made any impression on you, but you'd earlier identified him as suspicious and when you were forced to give thoughts, it was "yeah, he looks scummy to my head but not my gut, and I trust my gut more" - again, not engaging with content you couldn't defend, but pushing back against suspicions on Shad.  

 

re 762  I changed my mind is what happened.

 

I asked you to justify the basis for the change.  What was the progression? What posts by Thane made you "change your mind"? 

 

As for what happened with Shad? that early quick pile on today happened. Its made me stop to think.

 

You had me, Leelou, and Hally voting him early in the day.  Not sure why that would be surprising given the discussion of Shad the day before and night before (and my memory is that Leelou and Hally both had expressed doubts about Shad during that conversation, and I know I had, and if so none of the votes were unexpected).  Then the train stalled at 3.  What part of that said "TownShad" to you?  You say I'm your top scumread, and Leelou second (imagine that, two players who are scumreading you) ... your proposed scenario is that the scum team is so scared of Shad that 2/3 of us came busting out of the gate to attack him together?