Belichick - Mafia Eternal Night

seph · July 15, 2015

I'll be back around deadline glgl

Zander? · July 15, 2015

Can I just say you two are doing my head in

@ BFG - I haven't been able to do much here, nor the other game...exam Thursday and brain is frazzled and very stressed right now. As far a Zander is concerned, he never really replies to posts properly, just makes silly comments, i think it's because he doesn't have any real substance to add at all, so throwing the comments that he does, is all he can do.

I don't know what to think of Verb and AJ right now. In fact don't think my brain can process it. I think there maybe a lot of solve with Verb right now, im trying to see if he could be town. Not sure I can.

wow getting frazzled is right!!! i think you know how wrong this statement is. I'm sorry if your stressed out right now in RL I honestly am. But I'm not gonna stop suss'ing you because of it so this comment of yours is not gonna turn me away from you my dear. I've made my points and will continue to do so, this kind of comment about my play style only makes me think im on the right track. id even consider thinking frustrated towny but I'm really the only on after you so I'm not buying it.

didnt you say if rand flipped town it looks good for verb? can you please elaborate on this.

I

Zander? · July 15, 2015

im really tempted to CFD him right now BFG

lololololololol why?

Zander? · July 15, 2015

I think Verb's doing a good job of trying to talk himself out of a lynch. But the points he raises aren't that compelling (imo). IF Verb flips town then I think the lynch pool is in AJ/Talya/Zander, if not then the lynch pool is in Talya/Zander/Thane(?) - I kind of think that Verbs read of Thane is honest regardless of Verbs alignment, kinda like one of those Cory Dice/Tina/Tress(?) reads which is ~90% accurate regardless of Cory's alignment. Plus Thane actually has several flipped town calling him townie (Pral/Rand)

Verbs repeated absences from thread aren't looking great, and it wasn't just holiday, weekend, etc. When he came in he came in with a few town reads and sort of migrated towards the consensus reads, yet his 'own' reasons for those reads are inconsistent with the thread - he reads Laine as scummy for uhming and ahing over a read, yet I'm pretty sure this game I've uhmed and ahed over pretty much every read except Dice, but Verb never brings it up in relation to me. Page 61ish says that Laine/Rand are w/w this is easy, but he has some other thoughts on shooting some others - yet never elaborates.

Verb's play just seems too cautious/planned - which is pretty much how he defined his own mafia game.

i like BFG's post here. makes a lot of good points. and her thought process is pretty good here imo except about me but hey i may be a tad biased on that. lololololololol

BFG · July 15, 2015

mixed at the moment. The case presented against him (linking with Rand and all) was pretty convincing, but i kinda liked his posts in reply to the accusitions. On the other hand, i know he could talk his way out of things. He's not cleared in any way to me.

opinions????

This is well after Rands town flip, so any case linking them as mafia teammates is debunked.

BFG · July 15, 2015

Day 3

AJ - votes Rand

Thane - votes Rand 'choo choo'

Thane - looks at Dice, seems passive passive??? even though I disagree with the read this *could look good for Thane

Zander - voting Talya today?

Zander - votes Rand

Zander - looks at Verbs posts about Rand/Laine v/w...

Talya - votes Rand (puts him at L1)

Thane - asks why we have Dice as town?

Rand - vig shot didn't go through...

AJ/BFG - who are Rands suspects

AJ/Thane - wow at Rands excuse never ever reading DT

Rand suspects Verb, AJ, Talya/BFG

Back and forth between Rand/AJ/Thane :/

Thane - agree to disagree with me on Dice

Zander - I'm not voting yet, so do I believe him? actually have no intention of ending Day that soon after it started

Zander - I haven't voted yet

VC:

Rand (4/5): AJ, Thane, Zander, Talya

Talya hard time over the Verb v/w stuff needs to revisit, will look at Verb later again this sort of statement is why Verb was mafia reading Laine earlier

Verb - defence; AJ told him to 'stay the course' an dnow he's mafia reading him, 'complete the consistency'

Verb - thinks Rand could be a villager hmmm, mafia are still going to lynch Rand here 90% of the time, not sure if this fits with the earlier theory or not This is the big problem today, Verb has everyone as null and isn't offering alternatives

AJ - Verb needs to find 2 wolves

Zander - tired ITT, Rands response making his head spin doesn't unvote

AJ - Verb likely mafia anyway, but still wants to lynch Rand first pings a little - following Shads reasoning from Laine lynch, if Verb likely flips mafia regardless; he should 'always' be lynched first

Talya - Verbs ISO looks towny as a whole this is the first disconnect I have, Verb is firmly null to me from that happy with vote on Rand.

Verb - we do (have 2 mafia to find)

Verb - warming up to game, come@him - don't hammer Rand

AJ - Rand/Verb suddenly not finding each other scummy...

Verb at the risk of a semantics argument "It's like you guys want to treat indecision as bad all of a sudden. Wolves can't fake indecision very easily" not sure what the difference is between this and Laines earlier wavering on me/Thane

AJ looking better for the argument with Verb Day 3 looking at my notes; most of the case against Laine had been brought up before AJ told Verb to 'stay the course', but the thread target definately shifted to Laine before Verbs vote

Talya asks Verb for reads/Rand for cases

I claim

waffle between myself/AJ/Talya/Zander about the claim

Thane - liking Verb atm, scary and confusing, thinking about alternatives

Zander - Verb v/w thing

Dice - on the ball AGAIN Why lynch Rand over Verb if Rand's out of shots?

Dice 'consistency' votes Verb

AJ - what's the need to CFD if one's at L1 eeek, then why CFD onto Laine? too many strong reads atm to consider anyone else

Dice votes Rand

Talya asks Dice for reasons why Verb first?

Dice

seriously Talya? If Rand and verb flip town I lynch AJ.

as for reasons people have some waffle on rand. Im not gonna be surprised if he flips town but people dont seem to have any waffle on Verb.

If hes so consensus why is he second??

We will ahve to wait and see now

AJ - people waffling on Rand for the 'wrong' reasons

Verb - where's AJs vilagery caution?

AJ - why doesn't Verb start acting like a villager and find some wolves?

Verb - gut says 3rd is Zander

I feel like 'we/I' dropped the ball Day 3; Rand shouldn't have been lynched for the reasons he was. I'm not sure what to make of Verb not fighting harder if that's what he believed. AJ definately wins the argument Day 3 between them. Dice is massively on point despite not having much presence on thread.

I have my first disconnect with Talya in as much as she's reading Verb townie from his ISO while I can't move him out of null.

Verb is 'warming up to game' yet doesn't mafia hunt????????

Post flip:

Dice - needs to see a lot from Verb not to vote him; gut worrying him on AJ

Dice - strongest 2 town reads are Thane/Talya - not super confident on Thane, but he's saying stuff that brings town!Thane to mind pretty sure Dice is backing away from that read now; why?

AJ - pre ISO Dice/Talya strongest reads

Dice on Thane - is he saying stuff in a weird way, a bit against the grain... Thanes read on Dice actually fits this

AJ - posts from reread - does Thane try to derp clear himself

AJ - quotes Thane

SHOULD the wolves use their vig shots N1, the pool of suspects would get rather small. So, imo, they have a NK as well. It's going to be interesting how this will play out

I'd like an explanation of that as well!

AJ - Laine soft pushes Thane - (Shad thought it was Laine trying to find thread consensus) alternatively mafia distancing - this is exactly the sort of thing I'd do

subconscious disconnect between Laine/BFG - likely if Thanes a wolf? underestimating Thane???

Talya BFG, AJ, Dice, Thane, Zander, Verb

Thane - misses/dismisses my claim???

Thane - meta talk I think we define meta differently, but that's a conversation for a different time

Thane - mixed on Verb; case linking him and Verb was convincing, but he kinda liked his responses.

Interested in Dice explaining his change in stance on Verb/Thane - but that won't happen before DL now #timezones

Want Thane to explain the stuff in the spoiler, about setup spec. Don't recall Thane explaining his reaction to my claim either, although he 'believes it for now' the issue here is that I can point to a dozen games where Town!Thane backs off a scummy read after a claim. I can point to 1 mafia game (SW) where he reacts badly to a claim as mafia. Thane's said he dislikes meta, so could be actively working against it; but that in itself points to self-conscious and calculated play. NOT liking this at all. Honestly I'm wondering if he'd planned to claim Doc and was slow to react after he realised he couldn't with the number of lynches left. Against that, there's zero chance it wasn't mentioned in the mafia QT, which means he missed it twice, so I don't know

Andrej · July 15, 2015

Crunch time.

seph · July 15, 2015

little less than 3 hours until DL.

Verbal32 · July 15, 2015

@Verb, Dice is right, you have time to dig in before deadline

I'm pretty okay at reading the intent of the thread.....in this case, it is to lynch me. Enough has been said - if a hammer is incoming, just do it and move on.

I don't think my late vote on Laine looks bad when you take into account that I actively encouraged players to move over so that I could hammer. Which I did prior to Laine attempting to at least stall her lynch with the DL looming an hour away. Anybody remember her reaction to that?

I'm guessing wolves thought they could go for NL in that situation. Verb voting Rand over Laine to "complete the consistency" despite having a wolf read on Laine would make sense here on this theory.

Anyway - I'll be on break in about an hour and can respond more accordingly.

Dont like this post. I aalready raised the blue bit but here hes using it in a way that feels liek he is trying to take credit for finding it.

Verb I'm also interested in a response to the blue.

It was a weird way for me to say "going back to my original thought process and not second guessing myself".

Backing off Rand when he was sitting at L-1 doesn't make you a villager

Right, and voting him instead of Laine doesn't make me a wolf. See how that works?

I think Verb's doing a good job of trying to talk himself out of a lynch. But the points he raises aren't that compelling (imo). IF Verb flips town then I think the lynch pool is in AJ/Talya/Zander, if not then the lynch pool is in Talya/Zander/Thane(?) - I kind of think that Verbs read of Thane is honest regardless of Verbs alignment, kinda like one of those Cory Dice/Tina/Tress(?) reads which is ~90% accurate regardless of Cory's alignment. Plus Thane actually has several flipped town calling him townie (Pral/Rand)

Verbs repeated absences from thread aren't looking great, and it wasn't just holiday, weekend, etc. When he came in he came in with a few town reads and sort of migrated towards the consensus reads, yet his 'own' reasons for those reads are inconsistent with the thread - he reads Laine as scummy for uhming and ahing over a read, yet I'm pretty sure this game I've uhmed and ahed over pretty much every read except Dice, but Verb never brings it up in relation to me. Page 61ish says that Laine/Rand are w/w this is easy, but he has some other thoughts on shooting some others - yet never elaborates.

Verb's play just seems too cautious/planned - which is pretty much how he defined his own mafia game.

Very correct - I was on VACATION. I'm more likely to check in on a random holiday or weekend.....but not on vacation. I thought this was already discussed. I don't particularly care for this being repeatedly brought up as if it should be part of a case against me.

>_<

Verbal32 · July 15, 2015

7 players alive

5 villagers

2 wolves

If we mislynch me today, we have:

4 villagers

2 wolves

....going into tonight. If the wolves have 2 kills available, then the GAME IS OVER OUTSIDE OF A DOC PROTECT.

So AJ pushing hard for my lynch today and focusing on the re-assessment following my flip appears to be lip service.....the wolf team could win tonight.

Verbal32 · July 15, 2015

^ obviously a vig shot could realign those numbers, but I'm going off of worst case scenario here....

Andrej · July 15, 2015

Who would you vote right now Verb?

BFG · July 15, 2015

@Verb - my understanding was that you were back from vacation on Tuesday, roughly when you started posting again? You then missed the weekend as per norm, but were pretty quiet for Tuesday-Friday as well. If you were still on vacation during that time then I take it back and sorry for the misunderstanding.

As of the start of day you probably were the lynch, and I appreciate it's hard to motivate yourself at that point. BUT the point is if you flip town you win with town regardless of you being alive at end game. IF you're town you have more info than the rest of us, so would have been nice if you'd analysed the thread in more depth while you had chance.

If you flip town I promise I'll look at AJ in more depth, but it would have been nice to have your insight if that's the case.

BFG · July 15, 2015

7 players alive

5 villagers

2 wolves

If we mislynch me today, we have:

4 villagers

2 wolves

....going into tonight. If the wolves have 2 kills available, then the GAME IS OVER OUTSIDE OF A DOC PROTECT.

So AJ pushing hard for my lynch today and focusing on the re-assessment following my flip appears to be lip service.....the wolf team could win tonight.

Technically true,

BUT

If mafia have 2 kills left then either Pral or Yates did something pretty stupid Night 1 (unlikely), Rand lied about his vig shot and took that N1 (unlikely) or somebodies keeping schtum on thread about a vig shot, which is pretty stupid at this stage as well.

Andrej · July 15, 2015

The only thing that has me nervous right now is the stagnant nature of the votes these past two phases. Could be because of thread consensus but it's like people aren't voting their suspects, or even their alternatives. There's no pressure outside of the individual getting ran up and the thread has slowed down big time since the Laine lynch

BFG · July 15, 2015

This is Talya's reaction to Rand's Flip

What?!

Bleh!

like you didnt know he was gonna flip. Your too pot on this game Talya. Every game we've played in people have wavered on you. It's almost like....I don't know, maybe you already know who is who in this game.

See I don't get this :(

In SW Talya was in the POE, except for a couple of players at the end who can apparently read her well, as she is now in this game. Was there early game suspicion that I don't remember in that game? This reads like somebody saying that you made a good point on Day 2, which you're now reiterating despite the fact it's no longer valid.

What makes you think she's too spot on???

The fact that no one is reading wolf at all. This makes me very concerned. as town people read her off as she forming her opinions/reads only based on what she reads. this game shes just to point. like she knows what reaction to make to posts based on the fact she knows their alignment. if that makes sense.

You had me in your sights quite early on, and not everyone was reading me as town, and yet this had you concerned. I think that you are picking and choosing all the comments people make and make them into your own, because you haven't come up with an original idea about since this game started. When I flip town, what are you going to do then. this is copy catting, so bad.

I originally out this down to how you play, but actually you don't. Even in SW game you focused in on Seph D1, then moved to CS and it was only later you went with Yates, but I have never seen you go for someone all the game, and I believe it's because you are wolf, know my alignment but feel you can't back down from this, as you keep telling everyone it is your meta. Well it isn't.

Verb > Zander > Thane would be my choice.

Talya - you've had Zander low on your list all game, if it wasn't for the tunnel what was it for?

BFG · July 15, 2015

The only thing that has me nervous right now is the stagnant nature of the votes these past two phases. Could be because of thread consensus but it's like people aren't voting their suspects, or even their alternatives. There's no pressure outside of the individual getting ran up and the thread has slowed down big time since the Laine lynch

Who else would you vote???

Talya · July 15, 2015

Verb still isn't blowing me away :( although he has picked up on my worst nightmare with an AJ/anybody mafia team lol.

@Verb, Why Zander over Dice, given that you don't seem to have a read on Dice?

@Verb, if you flip town and mafia still have a shot we have no mislynches left (assuming no town vig shots left; which is possible).

How sure are you that Talya and Thane are town? How caught up are you in thread?

And that was a response I've been waiting for from Talya, heh (and sort of shifts everybody back to bleh :/ at least until I've finished my Day 2 reread as a minimum

I've only played a couple of games with Zander, and I have no wolf meta on him. In this game, I feel like he's not willing to accept he might be wrong on Talya. Everything she says just confirms her as a wolf for him. For many people, this would be very suspicious. I can't say if it means that for him, though. Just a gut feel for me.

And I don't need to "blow you away". I've been playing catchup for most of the game - I was on vacation for the start. Not your fault, obviously, but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances. I had Rand and Laine early on, thought maybe v/w, and said so on thread. My mistake was to keep after Rand and not make the switch on thread that I was making in my head. That single event is the ONLY dirt anybody has on me.

Protip: villagers make those mistakes all the time - wolves hardly do, because they are thinking hard about how they are perceived. I was not, so if anything....that is another point for me, not against me.

fwiw: I'm not wrong UNTIL I'm proven wrong. and Dude you played a few games with me. I lock on to something i hone on hard. I can be backed off if i see something or someone brings up a set of good points and sometimes not even then. You've seen me go after people I go for it. For better or worse thats how I play. And lastly fyi your gut is wrong.

I disagree i think you do need to blow us away brother. I've liked some of your posts but disliked others. Its once again coming down to your vote on Rand instead of Alanna when you said you felt it was v/w and....

"but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances"

you gotta see why this is causing alarms along with the vote right???!!!!

Can I just say you two are doing my head in

@ BFG - I haven't been able to do much here, nor the other game...exam Thursday and brain is frazzled and very stressed right now. As far a Zander is concerned, he never really replies to posts properly, just makes silly comments, i think it's because he doesn't have any real substance to add at all, so throwing the comments that he does, is all he can do.

I don't know what to think of Verb and AJ right now. In fact don't think my brain can process it. I think there maybe a lot of solve with Verb right now, im trying to see if he could be town. Not sure I can.

wow getting frazzled is right!!! i think you know how wrong this statement is. I'm sorry if your stressed out right now in RL I honestly am. But I'm not gonna stop suss'ing you because of it so this comment of yours is not gonna turn me away from you my dear. I've made my points and will continue to do so, this kind of comment about my play style only makes me think im on the right track. id even consider thinking frustrated towny but I'm really the only on after you so I'm not buying it.

didnt you say if rand flipped town it looks good for verb? can you please elaborate on this.

I

What is wrong with that statement, you still haven't come up with why you think I'm wolf, just shove it in my face everytime I say anything about it, your comments are nothing more than you saying I'm wolf, saying it so many times doesn't make it true. I am frazzled, didn't expect it change anything, and it wasn't aimed at you. It's what I am hence lack of time on thread, unfortunately.

I said a while back I thought Verb looked town from his first few posts, there have been things since then that have altered that view. His vote on Rand and not on Alanna seemed odd to me. This argument with AJ, is leaving me cold at present, I haven't got the time to really go over it like I would like to and that is annoying. I would like Verb push for who he thinks is mafia (it can't just be AJ) and would like to see some really good reasons why. He has mentioned you on gut, and him going a AJ (I have to say I have AJ as pretty strong town read).

@ BFG - The tunneling is definitely one of the main factors. Yes he does tunnel in games but not like this, it's obsessional. Even in other games he has reasons. Here he seems to grasp at straws, (D1 especially) and now uses things others have said that they think I could be wolf as his ideas all the time, there is a lot of turning over of other peoples ideas. He wasn't on the Alanna lynch, which in it's self doesn't mean a thing, but the way she buttered up to him at the end didn't feel quite right. He said he had started to doubt her, but still wasn't willing to go over to her. If I make any comments out he just comes back with That I'm wolf, or howl away, etc, no actually thoughts about what I have said. not seen him do that. The Yates in SW was a different feel, I could feel the frustration and people asked him to go over it in a post why, but here he is blind and it's not frustration but almost like victimisation (no that wasn't an AtE, but trying to put into words).

BFG · July 15, 2015

so... Verb... if you flip town, we need to lynch AJ, if i read that correctly? It's an option, yes.

@all the rest: what if Verb is actually right here? He flips town, what do we do?

Just something to keep in the back of our minds.

If i remember correctly, he's at L-1, right? Some replies would be nice before i hammer.

Why would you want to hammer? Do you really think I'm a wolf?

Did Thane ever respond to this?

BFG · July 15, 2015

Verb still isn't blowing me away :( although he has picked up on my worst nightmare with an AJ/anybody mafia team lol.

@Verb, Why Zander over Dice, given that you don't seem to have a read on Dice?

@Verb, if you flip town and mafia still have a shot we have no mislynches left (assuming no town vig shots left; which is possible).

How sure are you that Talya and Thane are town? How caught up are you in thread?

And that was a response I've been waiting for from Talya, heh (and sort of shifts everybody back to bleh :/ at least until I've finished my Day 2 reread as a minimum

I've only played a couple of games with Zander, and I have no wolf meta on him. In this game, I feel like he's not willing to accept he might be wrong on Talya. Everything she says just confirms her as a wolf for him. For many people, this would be very suspicious. I can't say if it means that for him, though. Just a gut feel for me.

And I don't need to "blow you away". I've been playing catchup for most of the game - I was on vacation for the start. Not your fault, obviously, but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances. I had Rand and Laine early on, thought maybe v/w, and said so on thread. My mistake was to keep after Rand and not make the switch on thread that I was making in my head. That single event is the ONLY dirt anybody has on me.

Protip: villagers make those mistakes all the time - wolves hardly do, because they are thinking hard about how they are perceived. I was not, so if anything....that is another point for me, not against me.

fwiw: I'm not wrong UNTIL I'm proven wrong. and Dude you played a few games with me. I lock on to something i hone on hard. I can be backed off if i see something or someone brings up a set of good points and sometimes not even then. You've seen me go after people I go for it. For better or worse thats how I play. And lastly fyi your gut is wrong.

I disagree i think you do need to blow us away brother. I've liked some of your posts but disliked others. Its once again coming down to your vote on Rand instead of Alanna when you said you felt it was v/w and....

"but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances"

you gotta see why this is causing alarms along with the vote right???!!!!

Can I just say you two are doing my head in

@ BFG - I haven't been able to do much here, nor the other game...exam Thursday and brain is frazzled and very stressed right now. As far a Zander is concerned, he never really replies to posts properly, just makes silly comments, i think it's because he doesn't have any real substance to add at all, so throwing the comments that he does, is all he can do.

I don't know what to think of Verb and AJ right now. In fact don't think my brain can process it. I think there maybe a lot of solve with Verb right now, im trying to see if he could be town. Not sure I can.

wow getting frazzled is right!!! i think you know how wrong this statement is. I'm sorry if your stressed out right now in RL I honestly am. But I'm not gonna stop suss'ing you because of it so this comment of yours is not gonna turn me away from you my dear. I've made my points and will continue to do so, this kind of comment about my play style only makes me think im on the right track. id even consider thinking frustrated towny but I'm really the only on after you so I'm not buying it.

didnt you say if rand flipped town it looks good for verb? can you please elaborate on this.

I

What is wrong with that statement, you still haven't come up with why you think I'm wolf, just shove it in my face everytime I say anything about it, your comments are nothing more than you saying I'm wolf, saying it so many times doesn't make it true. I am frazzled, didn't expect it change anything, and it wasn't aimed at you. It's what I am hence lack of time on thread, unfortunately.

I said a while back I thought Verb looked town from his first few posts, there have been things since then that have altered that view. His vote on Rand and not on Alanna seemed odd to me. This argument with AJ, is leaving me cold at present, I haven't got the time to really go over it like I would like to and that is annoying. I would like Verb push for who he thinks is mafia (it can't just be AJ) and would like to see some really good reasons why. He has mentioned you on gut, and him going a AJ (I have to say I have AJ as pretty strong town read).

@ BFG - The tunneling is definitely one of the main factors. Yes he does tunnel in games but not like this, it's obsessional. Even in other games he has reasons. Here he seems to grasp at straws, (D1 especially) and now uses things others have said that they think I could be wolf as his ideas all the time, there is a lot of turning over of other peoples ideas. He wasn't on the Alanna lynch, which in it's self doesn't mean a thing, but the way she buttered up to him at the end didn't feel quite right. He said he had started to doubt her, but still wasn't willing to go over to her. If I make any comments out he just comes back with That I'm wolf, or howl away, etc, no actually thoughts about what I have said. not seen him do that. The Yates in SW was a different feel, I could feel the frustration and people asked him to go over it in a post why, but here he is blind and it's not frustration but almost like victimisation (no that wasn't an AtE, but trying to put into words).

yup the frustration does seem to be lacking

Verbal32 · July 15, 2015

The only thing that has me nervous right now is the stagnant nature of the votes these past two phases. Could be because of thread consensus but it's like people aren't voting their suspects, or even their alternatives. There's no pressure outside of the individual getting ran up and the thread has slowed down big time since the Laine lynch

Finally a post that is villagery and not solely trying to push my mislynch.

Verbal32 · July 15, 2015

Who would you vote right now Verb?

You or Zander

BFG · July 15, 2015

Verb still isn't blowing me away :( although he has picked up on my worst nightmare with an AJ/anybody mafia team lol.

@Verb, Why Zander over Dice, given that you don't seem to have a read on Dice?

@Verb, if you flip town and mafia still have a shot we have no mislynches left (assuming no town vig shots left; which is possible).

How sure are you that Talya and Thane are town? How caught up are you in thread?

And that was a response I've been waiting for from Talya, heh (and sort of shifts everybody back to bleh :/ at least until I've finished my Day 2 reread as a minimum

I've only played a couple of games with Zander, and I have no wolf meta on him. In this game, I feel like he's not willing to accept he might be wrong on Talya. Everything she says just confirms her as a wolf for him. For many people, this would be very suspicious. I can't say if it means that for him, though. Just a gut feel for me.

And I don't need to "blow you away". I've been playing catchup for most of the game - I was on vacation for the start. Not your fault, obviously, but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances. I had Rand and Laine early on, thought maybe v/w, and said so on thread. My mistake was to keep after Rand and not make the switch on thread that I was making in my head. That single event is the ONLY dirt anybody has on me.

Protip: villagers make those mistakes all the time - wolves hardly do, because they are thinking hard about how they are perceived. I was not, so if anything....that is another point for me, not against me.

fwiw: I'm not wrong UNTIL I'm proven wrong. and Dude you played a few games with me. I lock on to something i hone on hard. I can be backed off if i see something or someone brings up a set of good points and sometimes not even then. You've seen me go after people I go for it. For better or worse thats how I play. And lastly fyi your gut is wrong.

I disagree i think you do need to blow us away brother. I've liked some of your posts but disliked others. Its once again coming down to your vote on Rand instead of Alanna when you said you felt it was v/w and....

"but I have been acting the same way in this game as I usually do when a villager, minus the more activity and 'harder' stances"

you gotta see why this is causing alarms along with the vote right???!!!!

Can I just say you two are doing my head in

@ BFG - I haven't been able to do much here, nor the other game...exam Thursday and brain is frazzled and very stressed right now. As far a Zander is concerned, he never really replies to posts properly, just makes silly comments, i think it's because he doesn't have any real substance to add at all, so throwing the comments that he does, is all he can do.

I don't know what to think of Verb and AJ right now. In fact don't think my brain can process it. I think there maybe a lot of solve with Verb right now, im trying to see if he could be town. Not sure I can.

wow getting frazzled is right!!! i think you know how wrong this statement is. I'm sorry if your stressed out right now in RL I honestly am. But I'm not gonna stop suss'ing you because of it so this comment of yours is not gonna turn me away from you my dear. I've made my points and will continue to do so, this kind of comment about my play style only makes me think im on the right track. id even consider thinking frustrated towny but I'm really the only on after you so I'm not buying it.

didnt you say if rand flipped town it looks good for verb? can you please elaborate on this.

I

What is wrong with that statement, you still haven't come up with why you think I'm wolf, just shove it in my face everytime I say anything about it, your comments are nothing more than you saying I'm wolf, saying it so many times doesn't make it true. I am frazzled, didn't expect it change anything, and it wasn't aimed at you. It's what I am hence lack of time on thread, unfortunately.

I said a while back I thought Verb looked town from his first few posts, there have been things since then that have altered that view. His vote on Rand and not on Alanna seemed odd to me. This argument with AJ, is leaving me cold at present, I haven't got the time to really go over it like I would like to and that is annoying. I would like Verb push for who he thinks is mafia (it can't just be AJ) and would like to see some really good reasons why. He has mentioned you on gut, and him going a AJ (I have to say I have AJ as pretty strong town read).

@ BFG - The tunneling is definitely one of the main factors. Yes he does tunnel in games but not like this, it's obsessional. Even in other games he has reasons. Here he seems to grasp at straws, (D1 especially) and now uses things others have said that they think I could be wolf as his ideas all the time, there is a lot of turning over of other peoples ideas. He wasn't on the Alanna lynch, which in it's self doesn't mean a thing, but the way she buttered up to him at the end didn't feel quite right. He said he had started to doubt her, but still wasn't willing to go over to her. If I make any comments out he just comes back with That I'm wolf, or howl away, etc, no actually thoughts about what I have said. not seen him do that. The Yates in SW was a different feel, I could feel the frustration and people asked him to go over it in a post why, but here he is blind and it's not frustration but almost like victimisation (no that wasn't an AtE, but trying to put into words).

yup the frustration does seem to be lacking

Actually maybe I wasn't clear...

I get why you find him scummy now, but what was it at the beginning? You said that you (to paraphrase) thought it was how Zander usually played, but it's not (referring to the style of tunnel this game). So if you are now finding the tunnel scummy, why were you finding him scummy at the beginning?

BFG · July 15, 2015

Day 4

Talya votes Verb

AJ votes Verb (not making a lot of sense and that's a good indicator)

Zander questions Dice on AJ read see here Zander is starting to seem townier, because he's questioning other people

Zander - Verb/Talya only places his vote goes

AJ - Thane - Laine wavering indicates partner, gut says town

Zander - questions Thane on doc claim

BFG/Zander on tunnel

Zander - BFG, Dice, AJ, Thane, Verb, Talya

Zander - vote Verb It's completely unreasonable of me to wonder why Zander's stopped voting Talya since Day 2, given my stance on his tunnel isn't it

AJ pulls up a quote of Zander clearing Thane because she's 'playing the same way' - meh

Dice - Thane is off (missing things) I assume this is the doc claim disbelief, at least that's explained, Zander>Talya, AJ tinfoil.

AJ - 1883/1884 agree with, pretty much spot on

Reads: Dice >>> AJ, Zander, Thane, Talya, Verb

AJ - Verb Thane/Talya Zander his mix between which of the 3 is lowest at any point pretty much tracks mine

Dice - Thane play reminiscent of SW where he was detached, not involved, away for long periods yet he was one of your 2 strongest townies immediately after night end

Zander - Talya stuff

Verb - miscleared AJ

- AJ stating things like a fact, or close to - examples???

'Thane & Talya still clear. BFG cleared as well (imo) due to claim and lack of cc. Dice is unknown, but nothing overly weird from him.' weird phrasing; I'm clear in his opinion, but Thane/Talya are just clear???

- AJ said to stay the course on Rand, (yet Verb doesn't vote till MUCH later, so how is that)

Talya - originally down to how Zander plays eeekkkk, Talya's had Zander scummy all game, so what was it she was finding scummy at the beginning, if she's only just finding the tunnel scummy???

Verb > Zander > Thane

Thane - Verb flips town we lynch AJ? some replies would be nice before he hammers YUK

AJ - encouraged people to move so he could hammer ??? encouraged people to move and did hammer but that wasn't a reason given at the time, just that he wanted to ensure a lynch, which I guess is similar, meh

Verb/AJ back and forth - verb says villagery thought process making it wolfy

Dice tempted to CFD onto Zander

BFG · July 15, 2015

Verb - you said that AJ was acting cocky, and stating things as fact, or nearly so. Any chance you can show us what you mean???

Belichick - Mafia Eternal Night

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