The Dark One's Name

[KevinZ]

So, something has been bothering me for a while. If almost nobody says the Dark One's real name, how does everyone know it?

[trevorcroft]

Is this a serious question?

 

It's the most taboo thing in the ENTIRE world, you only have to hear it once to remember it for life because its such a big deal. Young kids would find out somehow and say it to their peers to show off their knowledge and how tough they are.

 

Think of it like knowing that Santa Claus isn't real, kids are never supposed to find that out, but they always do.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Young kids would find out somehow and say it to their peers to show off their knowledge and how tough they are.

 

Yeah, its probably passed around by adolescents whispering in corners and the like. And people do occasionally say it in public, like Bili Congar.

[Luckers]

I disagree. I've always found this to be a problem. Given the degree of Rands reaction in the Great Hunt combined with Mat's comments about Bili Congar... i simply dont understand the prevailing knowledge.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, there is always the underground influence of Darkfriends. Maybe they have a low priority standing order to try to get other people to say it or something.

 

Of course, all the Forsaken/Darkfriends except Ishamael (who is of course mad) use "Great Lord" (to avoid blasphemy according to Lanfear), but an order to try to get others to say it in an effort to increase Shai'tan's knowledge or influence over them ...

 

-scooting my chair over to avoid the car that crashed into my house-

 

... could be beneficial on some level to their cause.

 

Its flimsy, I know, but its the best I could come up with besides "teen age dares".

[trakand01]

Not to bring the skies down upon me, but what IS his real name?

[Graendals favourite]

Perhaps there is no premonition to writing the name. Children are taught about the Wheel, the Light and the Shadow after all. Like:

 

"Now Jaq, you are now six, and learned to read. I have to teach you something very important. As you know, the Dark One is always there, but he is bound in Shayol Ghul along with the Forsaken, bound from the beginning of time. The Creator's hand shelters us, and if you try to life a good life and walk in the Light, he cannot harm you. But there is another thing. The Dark One has a name. You must never say that name aloud. Saying it you would draw the Dark One's attention to you, and then he could harm you. You must not even think of the name. But you must know it. I will write it down now, and you must read it carefully, but do-- not-- ever- say-- it-- aloud! You understand? Good. Here."

[Thorum]

And what would be the first thing any kid would do??

Say it aloud, of course.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Perhaps there is no premonition to writing the name.

 

While literacy seems more prevalent in Randland than in real-world societies of the past, its hardly as universal as the knowledge of Shai'tan's name seems to be.

 

-pulls out a gun and shoots the wild bull that suddenly started charging him from behind-

 

So anyway ... it may be a combination of factors. Some Darkfriends goading people into saying it, adolescents "proving they're not scared", written records, and a few blind idiots who say it publicly.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It could be just as simple as the fact that little childred have very big ears. Especially when it comes to things they shouldn't hear and say. The worse the phrase, the more likely they will learn it after only hearing it once.

 

It starts with someone like Bili Congar saying Shai'tan to prove how brave he is.

 

Little Timmy and Molly overhear him. They don't know what it meant but the way everyone reacted, it must have been bad. Thus the word is permanently imprinted in their memories.

 

A little later, Timmy wants to impress Mikey by showing how rebellious he is so he says Shai'tan. Sure, neither Mikey nor Timmy has any clue what it meant, but the way the Village Wisdom scrubbed Timmy's mouth out with soap and then lectured him for the past hour it must have been bad. And so it gets imprinted into another child's memory. I would assume that the lecture would include an explanation of why saying Shai'tan is so bad. And there you have it. The first generation has just passed the knowledge to the second.

 

And so on, and so on...

[loki redfern]

and in the bigger cities your gonna have idiots going round saying it all the time. well not all the time, but you get my drift.

 

and this will filter in to the smaller communities like two rivers

[courtneysfoster]

I didn't see anywhere where there was a problem writing his name... Even country bumpkins in the two rivers read books.

 

~Courtney

[Gentled Ben]

Aiel "savages" read books. Everyone seems literate in Randland. Heck, there's early speculation that the dark prophecy scrawled in Fal Dara might have been written by a trolloc, but Verin comments that the script is too good and must be from a myrddraal.

 

Hmm...maybe during trolloc raids from the Blight, they scrawl the name on village walls, like gang graffitti? :P

[isk]

if you're talking about country folk in Randland, they seem to guard their lore and their stories pretty fiercely. it's like a prized collection. whenever they hear news of the outside world they tend to be very amazed and entertained, even if it's only scraps of a rumor. I find it easy to believe that something as important as the Dark One's true name is common knowledge, handed down through the generations, and it takes but a strong punishment with a kid of average intelligence to limit how often they say it for the rest of their lives. "burn me" and "bloody ashes" are considered profanity, so "Shai'tan" would probably be like Cartman's colorful tirade directed at Saddam during the South Park movie. you don't say that unless you want your ears boxed.

[Mat is the Boss]

Since everyone seem to know the name of 14 men and woman that has been (until recently) gone for more then 3000 years, it`s not a surprise that they know the name of the evil being that was behind the war that destroyed the world 3000 years ago.

[aes_sedaiwrong]

yeah darkfreinds spread it.

 

shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.shai'tan.

oh dear..... (off in the distance, aes-sedai=wrong saw his doom approaching in the form of a thousand deaths...all craving to tear his heart out and make him eat it, and repeat)

 

EDIT

 

you wont belioev why im still alive!!! im so releived I..(heart attack)

[Narg]

in answer to the origional question, its like voldemort in harry potter. there are still people who say it just fearfuly or defianatly and such.

[KevinZ]

Sorry I posted this and just vanished, but anyway...

 

I was under the impression that saying the Dark Ones name actually did draw his attention. Lews Therin seemed to believe it and I don't really picture him as the superstitious type. Plus, didn't Bili's crops die and his family get some disease?

 

If this is the case it seems like in 3000 years there would be an effort to keep people from saying it. And in the age of legend, when people would have been very worried about this sort of thing, would anybody but a darkfriend say Shai'tan? And so if just darkfriends are saying it, wouldn't they just kill anyone who said Shai'tan?

 

Hmmm, come to think of it, Lews Therin didn't seem TOO concerned when Ba'alzamon says it. He doesn't immedietly assume he is a darkfriend. So maybe it was more common then I had thought. On the other hand, Lews Therin was crazy, so who knows.

 

Anyway, it just seems unlikly that enough people are saying Shai'tan that EVERYONE seems to know it. Especially since it might actually cause bad things to happen, and it could get you killed on the spot in some places. It is hard for me to compare it to anything in real life, but I think that alot less people would use swear words if we started killing them if they did.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It is hard for me to compare it to anything in real life, but I think that alot less people would use swear words if we started killing them if they did.

 

Its hard for me to believe people keep smoking when its expensive, destroys their health in the short term, and kills them in the long term, but people do it. People are stupid.

 

I was under the impression that saying the Dark Ones name actually did draw his attention.

 

The effect is probably more powerful now than at any time since Lews Therin's lifetime. When Lews Therin knew it, the Bore was open. Now, the seals are very weak. For the 3000 or so years between the Breaking and the "present", the effect was probably not as pronounced, which made it easier to rationalize away the much smaller effects (and therefore, easier to transmit).

 

When Rand says it (as he does a couple of times) the world spins or he goes batty, but again, the effect is probably amplified in him by 1) the taint, and 2) the fact that Shai'tan is probably concentrating on him pretty hard.