House of Cards

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

 

Haircut?

Yep.

Shaved or cut?

Would one of those annoy you more?

You know which one would.

Do you seriously think my memory is that good?!

[Cass]

IMO, Cory is ok with AtE when it is used by townies but not by scum.  I disagree, but can understand the inclination as town AtE tends to be more honest.

 

Ok, I'm just going to give up on searching for his meta right now and go with gut - I think it's unlikely Cory makes that first post today as Cory-scum. Shame on me if I'm being duped.

[WWWwombat]

 

Verb, why didn't you think Sooh/Cass could be V/V?

 

Why should I have you as town?

That's a really good question and now I'm wondering why myself. I'll need to go back to that sequence on my computer - please don't let me forget this.

 

 

Sure thing!

 

 

 

 

Verb, why didn't you think Sooh/Cass could be V/V?

 

Why should I have you as town?

That's a really good question and now I'm wondering why myself. I'll need to go back to that sequence on my computer - please don't let me forget this.

 

 

You'll be badgered until you do it. 

 

 

What about wombatted?  Or is that too 2014?

[Verbal32]

Cass, are you ignoring my vote on you?

[WWWwombat]

Ninja'd by Verb.  /rist

[Leelou]

 

 

Verb, why didn't you think Sooh/Cass could be V/V?

 

Why should I have you as town?

That's a really good question and now I'm wondering why myself. I'll need to go back to that sequence on my computer - please don't let me forget this.

 

 

Sure thing!

 

 

 

 

Verb, why didn't you think Sooh/Cass could be V/V?

 

Why should I have you as town?

That's a really good question and now I'm wondering why myself. I'll need to go back to that sequence on my computer - please don't let me forget this.

 

 

You'll be badgered until you do it. 

 

 

What about wombatted?  Or is that too 2014?

 

 

If he has no hair, you can call it whatever you want. 

[WWWwombat]

Scratch that.  Not sure I have enough booze.

[Clovdyx]

 

Anyways, I'm asking because it just seemed strange to me that you would list your peek in green and then reveal it later, and it HAPPENED to be the person that Darthe peeked. I couldn't help but read it as a possible situation where you had to go check who his death spewed town and then use that person as your own peek.

 

Especially considering she was presumably null WITHOUT the peek factoring in.

This post wasn't there when i posted my last one... phone hasn't updated sorry.

 

Anyway to put her in blue before revealing would've been obvious. I had said i liked her reads so nice try there.

 

As far as Darthe having her as a town peek D1, he wasn't the only one so nice try on that theory.

 

 

Okay, you liked her reads...

 

Songstress- waiting to hear those reads.

 

 

This is far.  So, let's see...

 

 

 

I finally brought my laptop down to the kitchen and sat here in the same room ignoring my family so they could see me and not get huffy that I'm holed up upstairs, but I could re-read the game in full.  Notes/reads/small amount of whatnot here.  I will have time to participate at my normal level as of Saturday evening when I get back home.  I really thought I'd have more time this week but the situation with my grandmother was much  more demanding on my time than my usual trips home to visit mom.

 

----------

 

If I am seer, AJ is my N0 town peek.

 

Liking Nyn/Hally for town.  Nyn and I think a lot alike, generally, and I can follow her thoughts well here.

 

Leaning town on Kaylee from what I've seen - the one strong town tell I have for her has been tickled at if not completely tripped.

 

Slight town lean on Verb for his handling of Wombat.

 

I'm disliking the push on Cass - I think some of her points have been good and she's explained well what she means and I can follow it.  In particular I agree with her discomfort as regards to Darthe's seer cover stuff and his knowledge of how she plays.  She makes a lot of sense IMO, Darthe not so much. I have a suspicion she's probably town. Also I'd just really feel terrible for her if she doesn't roll town soon.

 

I really really want Cory to be town but the way he's handled Cass makes me not so sure.  Holding him at townish/null for now, pending further information.

 

I don't feel competent with reading Clov at all.  Maybe town, but I strongly suspect he can fool me.

 

We need Dice to get back from his family visit so he can start broadcasting Town!Dice asap.  I can always read Town!Dice.  If no obvtown vibes appear soon, he will bump down to the scum list.

 

Not sure Darthe is making a lot of sense to me - he generally doesn't, and I don't know what to do with him.  Had an early town read on him but it's bumped down for the moment.  I could see him as mafia, although I have thought that before and been wrong. I'll need to reassess him later.

 

Leelou came across as cranky and a bit strange early.  Reads list was all right.  Null pending further review.

 

Not feeling great about Wombat so far at all. 

 

Sooh's posts have been coming across as somewhat disinterested... disagree heavily with her read of Hally as TMI defending her... Disagree with her town read of Wombat.

 

----------

 

For the record:

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

 

All right, there are the reads.  Your posts since that time:

 

 

That's likely as most people were on it.

 

 

Just realized everyone but Sooh was on it.

 

 

 

 

 

That's likely as most people were on it.

Literally everyone was on it.

Ninja'd... yeah i need coffee.

 

 

 

 

Verb

Kaylee

Nyn

Tress

Leelou

Dice

Similar to mine

 

Nyn

Verb

Lee

Tress

AJ

Cass (for thé points Nyn made)

Null on Dice

 

Need to sort out:

 

Wombat

Cory

Clov

 

 

AJ and Cass would be light green

 

 

I'll reveal my peek closer to end of day.

 

 

And then your peek.  So, no you didn't say that.  As far as I can tell, there was nothing in the thread that suggests you would have her as town besides a peek.  You're absolutely right that it WOULD be obvious, though.  Just trying to see why you wouldn't want to be.  

 

 

Not sure what you're implying with the bold.  Yeah, he wasn't the only one to peek her, but he's the only one DEAD - making his peek the only one that matters.

[Cass]

 

 

 

 

@ Wombat - Which votes didn't you like on Sooh's train at the time you responded to Kaylee's question?

 

 

 

Mostly Dice, but Verb and AJ too.

 

 

I think I've made my stance pretty clear on Dice's vote, but what stood out to you about Verb/AJ's votes?  I didn't really pay much attention to Verb's, and AJ's obviously wasn't scummy enough to catch my attention.  I'll go back and re-evaluate his in case I'm wrong, though.

 

 

Felt like they sort of waited until it was definitely gonna be Sooh to vote but not actually that close to EoD.  Neither really provided much reasoning, so they looked like bus votes to me.  In retrospect, I guess they are either DADV type votes or legit.

 

 

I can accept that, but I'm having trouble figuring out the angle Mafia!AJ could have been working.  Sooh was getting lynched before he moved his vote, and his vote on Cass fit well with his play on the thread.  If she's town, staying put would have given him reason to push her again today.  I suppose it could be a distancing thing if she's mafia as well ("Look guys, I totally was on her before you were"), but if that's the case, I think there's more of a gain from him staying the course and not bumping her up just to pile on the pre-determined lynch.

 

 

I essentially agree with the logic of everything Clov says above. I'm stuck on trying to figure out the bold.

@Clov - what do you make of his switch specifically in relation to the fact that Sooh was getting lynched when he moved his vote?

 

 

 

@ Wombat - Ok ta. What is DADV? I get that it stands for Dead Air Dead Villager

sticky the acronym list!

but what does it mean, and if it's not obvious once you understand the meaning, how does it apply to to the votes by Verb and AJ?

[Cass]

 

 

 

My question is does Cory the mafia player actually really dislike AtE as much as he's suggested, or is it something that he legitimately would use?

 

I know this is for AJ but I'll answer this too if you want

 

 

Yes please. I think anyone with Cory meta should.

 

 

FWIW, I don't know if I trust Cory to give a Cory meta.

 

 

You could've just answered yourself...

[Clovdyx]

I intend to, just can't yet.

[Cass]

 

I didn't it's there for all to see. If you mean why I was going to hold it that's been discussed.

I see no reason to rush to say it. This isn't a Hammer game and day just started this morning.

 

 

Well, no, it hadn't.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll reveal my peek closer to end of day.

 

My mom's in hospital so I'm distracted.

 

Tress was my peek.

 

 

 

 

 

Verb

Kaylee

Nyn

Tress

Leelou

Dice

Similar to mine

 

Nyn

Tress

Verb

Lee

AJ

Cass (for thé points Nyn made)

Null on Dice

 

Need to sort out:

 

Wombat

Cory

Clov

Updated by putting Tress in blue

 

 

 

I could go with Wombat or Clov at this point...neither are town for me

 

Nyn is making good points about Verb. I don't read him as well so I'll trust these and see what he had to say in response

 

 

I did think his comment about Sooh and Cass couldn't be wolves together.

 

I just can't get past what you said about her. That and she's responding well I agree

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not getting into the pros and cons again but why does this matter to you Clov?

[Cass]

 

 

 

 

My question is does Cory the mafia player actually really dislike AtE as much as he's suggested, or is it something that he legitimately would use?

 

I know this is for AJ but I'll answer this too if you want

 

 

Yes please. I think anyone with Cory meta should.

 

 

FWIW, I don't know if I trust Cory to give a Cory meta.

 

 

jepg is the only player that can read me better than myself.

Seriously, put 13 corys in a game. Village sweep every time, but the thread would be traumatic and unreadable to any outsider.

 

 

lol'd. Consider me an outsider.

[Clovdyx]

I answered that already. See the post Kaylee replied to

[Cass]

Anyways, I'm asking because it just seemed strange to me that you would list your peek in green and then reveal it later, and it HAPPENED to be the person that Darthe peeked.  I couldn't help but read it as a possible situation where you had to go check who his death spewed town and then use that person as your own peek.

 

Especially considering she was presumably null WITHOUT the peek factoring in.

 

Disregard the last. I'm too tired to figure out what you're getting at with the bold but I feel it might be important. Noting it for later.

[Nynaeve]

^ I think Nyn wondered that as well....so I take back that credit and give it to her (if she was in fact the one).

 

Yep. It was me. 

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm asking because it just seemed strange to me that you would list your peek in green and then reveal it later, and it HAPPENED to be the person that Darthe peeked. I couldn't help but read it as a possible situation where you had to go check who his death spewed town and then use that person as your own peek.

 

Especially considering she was presumably null WITHOUT the peek factoring in.

This post wasn't there when i posted my last one... phone hasn't updated sorry.

 

Anyway to put her in blue before revealing would've been obvious. I had said i liked her reads so nice try there.

 

As far as Darthe having her as a town peek D1, he wasn't the only one so nice try on that theory.

Okay, you liked her reads...

Songstress- waiting to hear those reads.

 

This is far. So, let's see...

 

 

 

I finally brought my laptop down to the kitchen and sat here in the same room ignoring my family so they could see me and not get huffy that I'm holed up upstairs, but I could re-read the game in full. Notes/reads/small amount of whatnot here. I will have time to participate at my normal level as of Saturday evening when I get back home. I really thought I'd have more time this week but the situation with my grandmother was much more demanding on my time than my usual trips home to visit mom.

 

----------

 

If I am seer, AJ is my N0 town peek.

 

Liking Nyn/Hally for town. Nyn and I think a lot alike, generally, and I can follow her thoughts well here.

 

Leaning town on Kaylee from what I've seen - the one strong town tell I have for her has been tickled at if not completely tripped.

 

Slight town lean on Verb for his handling of Wombat.

 

I'm disliking the push on Cass - I think some of her points have been good and she's explained well what she means and I can follow it. In particular I agree with her discomfort as regards to Darthe's seer cover stuff and his knowledge of how she plays. She makes a lot of sense IMO, Darthe not so much. I have a suspicion she's probably town. Also I'd just really feel terrible for her if she doesn't roll town soon.

 

I really really want Cory to be town but the way he's handled Cass makes me not so sure. Holding him at townish/null for now, pending further information.

 

I don't feel competent with reading Clov at all. Maybe town, but I strongly suspect he can fool me.

 

We need Dice to get back from his family visit so he can start broadcasting Town!Dice asap. I can always read Town!Dice. If no obvtown vibes appear soon, he will bump down to the scum list.

 

Not sure Darthe is making a lot of sense to me - he generally doesn't, and I don't know what to do with him. Had an early town read on him but it's bumped down for the moment. I could see him as mafia, although I have thought that before and been wrong. I'll need to reassess him later.

 

Leelou came across as cranky and a bit strange early. Reads list was all right. Null pending further review.

 

Not feeling great about Wombat so far at all.

 

Sooh's posts have been coming across as somewhat disinterested... disagree heavily with her read of Hally as TMI defending her... Disagree with her town read of Wombat.

 

----------

 

For the record:

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

All right, there are the reads. Your posts since that time:

 

 

That's likely as most people were on it.

 

Just realized everyone but Sooh was on it.

 

 

 

 

That's likely as most people were on it.

Literally everyone was on it.

Ninja'd... yeah i need coffee.

 

 

Verb

Kaylee

Nyn

Tress

Leelou

Dice

Similar to mine

 

Nyn

Verb

Lee

Tress

AJ

Cass (for thé points Nyn made)

Null on Dice

 

Need to sort out:

 

Wombat

Cory

Clov

AJ and Cass would be light green

 

I'll reveal my peek closer to end of day.

 

And then your peek. So, no you didn't say that. As far as I can tell, there was nothing in the thread that suggests you would have her as town besides a peek. You're absolutely right that it WOULD be obvious, though. Just trying to see why you wouldn't want to be.

 

 

Not sure what you're implying with the bold. Yeah, he wasn't the only one to peek her, but he's the only one DEAD - making his peek the only one that matters.

I could've sworn I posted that I liked Tress's reads. Sorry about that must not have hit post last night.

 

Anyway, you made it seem like his was the only peek on Tress before EOD, but it wasn't. He may be the only dead one who peeked her but that wasn't why.

 

I explained why I did it the way I did. There's nothing more I can say on the matter.

[Cass]

For Cass' eyes only, because everyone has been following the honor system this game:

 

 

My whole take on AtE is that it isn't really a real tell for anything. Unless a player is specifically trying to make you feel bad as a way of emotionally manipulating you, it turns out that most human beings are intuitive and feeling creatures and it can leak out into games. Take EP last game for an example - do you think he was trying GRAND SUBTERFUGE using AtE as a way of getting people on his side? No, he was an upset human being doing upset human being things. Sometimes it is genuine, because people are people.

 

Obviously the issue here at hand is that villagers are probably a tad more likely than rand to get visibly upset in game of lies and liars (not that a wolf can't get upset he's getting lynched, but it's harder to sustain that sort of frustration when you know people are actually right), so it becomes a "villager tell", which long-term means that wolves need to learn how to fake it in order to clear themselves. A lot of this is lumped into the "how to fake tone" discussion.

 

So you need to sort through "emotional play" and figure out A) if the player is genuine and B) if the player is upset because they are a villager. I failed and doing A) and B) for Sooh and feel bad for failing, as I sort of like being right in these games.

 

As for my meta, I do not think I use "AtE" but I also acknowledge I am an emotional player, especially as a villager, because I get emotionally invested in games because I have #INFP problems. So generally if you think I am AtE-ing, it's not an intentional "play" - I am probably just telling people what's on my mind and attempting to be transparent and it turns out when I say what's on my mind the INFP stuff comes out and I sort of wear my heart on my sleeve.

 

As a wolf I can try to emulate it because it's a pretty crucial part of my villager game and my wolf game is about emulating my villager game but it's one of the spots where I am probably a lot less convincing. I would just ignore it, unless you think my attitude is out of place in context with the game-state, and look more for my reads and if I'm making the sort of reads you believe I would make as a villager. Unless you really want to INFP it up and try to read me emotionally, which is honestly a very taxing way to play the game and not something I wish on other people.

 

 

 

 

Above the bold: I actually was really suspicious of EP's posting until he flipped. Not that I was convinced it was a grand subterfuge plan, but the feeling that it could be was there and therefore fueled suspicion.

I think I react this way to any overly negative/aggressive emotion from players when it's expressed in the thread. Primarily because I work hard to try and keep emotions like that as level as I can in the interests of clear communication.

 

The bold: All of this makes sense and I especially understand the underlined. I think we've had this discussion before, the other way around.

 

Below the bold: 

My difficulty is trying to interpret your emotions and whether they are real or emulated this game, lol. I found what you were putting out D1 overly negative/aggressive and therefore disturbing. Today not so much.

I have no idea how to assess your reads as villager but the underlined is worth a try. Similarly you should do the same with my WoTs and paranoid wordiness - NFP problems but with a whole lot of need to be expressed to determine validity because, E. It's really not an alignment tell.

 

Ty for the post.

 

 

[Kaylee]

 

 

Anyways, I'm asking because it just seemed strange to me that you would list your peek in green and then reveal it later, and it HAPPENED to be the person that Darthe peeked. I couldn't help but read it as a possible situation where you had to go check who his death spewed town and then use that person as your own peek.

 

Especially considering she was presumably null WITHOUT the peek factoring in.

Disregard the last. I'm too tired to figure out what you're getting at with the bold but I feel it might be important. Noting it for later.

First, his death doesn't spew anyone as town. Unless I read his flip wrong it said VT. That means he was providing cover and guessed at a peek. Esp since he did it practically at the start is the game.

 

Sorry but reading that again just got to me. Honestly not sure why you're pushing this angle.

[Cory Caboose]

Cass you remind me a lot of Keyholder

 

You're hitting all of my soft spots today

[Cass]

Cass, are you ignoring my vote on you?

 

Pretty much.

 

For obvious reasons I don't get why Sooh and I can't be V-V in your mind, but other people have addressed that so I'm working on other things. You're currently more scummy in my mind for it though. 

[Cass]

Cass you remind me a lot of Keyholder

 

You're hitting all of my soft spots today

 

Is this a good or bad thing for me?

[Cory Caboose]

Is this a good or bad thing for me?

 

It's good for you regardless of your alignment

The real question is if it's good or bad for me   

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Anyways, I'm asking because it just seemed strange to me that you would list your peek in green and then reveal it later, and it HAPPENED to be the person that Darthe peeked. I couldn't help but read it as a possible situation where you had to go check who his death spewed town and then use that person as your own peek.

 

Especially considering she was presumably null WITHOUT the peek factoring in.

Disregard the last. I'm too tired to figure out what you're getting at with the bold but I feel it might be important. Noting it for later.

First, his death doesn't spew anyone as town. Unless I read his flip wrong it said VT. That means he was providing cover and guessed at a peek. Esp since he did it practically at the start is the game.

 

Sorry but reading that again just got to me. Honestly not sure why you're pushing this angle.

 

 

It's called "Seer Hunt Clear".  It is NOT a flawless method - I will 100% concede that.  But here are the ONLY two scenarios:

 

1) Darthe "peeked" Tress.  Mafia knew Tress is town, so he might have been telling the truth.  They killed him because it was possible (in addition to the fact that he was being incredibly protown and would have been damn near impossible to mislynch).

2) Darthe "peeked" Tress.  Tress IS mafia, so they KNEW Darthe was lying.  They killed him anyways, despite knowing they had 0% chance of hitting the cop.

[Cass]

Ok.

 

Here's a YOLO of where I currently have everyone at:

 

Tress

Bewbs

Kaylee

Dice

Cory

Leelou

Wombat

Verbal

Clov

AJ 

 

 

I'm out until this afternoon.