Faile's kidnapping too long? Spoiler - read her rescue first

[stoneface]

Does Faile's kidnapping drag on and on, or is it just because it was years between the books? Is the length of the kidnapping OK if you read all the books at once? Can I even set up the poll with enough choices? Can I even figure out how to set up a poll?

 

PoD came out in 1998, and Faile was kidnapped at the end of it. She was a prisoner through WH (2000) and CoT (2003). Rescue came in KoD (2005). Please vote the first book that you had to wait for (starting at Winter's Heart).

 

I won't try this with "Did Salidar take too long..."

[Hannah Banana]

I don't know.. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the pacing of the stories, or even the number of subplots and threads running. It's just that.. there's only one book left and so much to go through, that the ending is bound to be desperately rushed, thus impacting the quality and leaving us unsatisfied...

 

In hindsight, spending all this time on Faile's kidnapping, if we're going to have, like, one chapter of TG and then the end of the series, well.. that will be irritating and then, yes, I would say it was not well thought out.

 

But if, theoretically, RJ was free to write thoroughly as much as he wanted of the remainder of the series (without any publisher pressure over a never-ending series and wrapping it up, and health concerns :( ) AND if we didn't have to wait years in between volumes, I wouldn't have a problem with the length of the kidnapping.. or Salidar... or anything else.

[SBoydW]

I thought that the entire capture drug on way to long. And I've read just about straight through..

[RobertAlexWillis]

While it seems to have dragged on and on and on, and made for tedious reading at times, I think I can see some of why RJ did it that way.

 

First off, the last 5 books have been smushed into 4 months worth of Randland time.

 

Second, Perin accomplished more than just rescuing Faile. Its almost like the Pattern just took his desire and worked it into the weaving. For example, he:

 

1) Established a cooperative tie with one of the Seanchan's higher generals.

 

2) Managed to use up most of the Empire's forkroot.

 

3) Finally broke the Shaido.

 

4) Secured the open allegiance of Alliandre.

 

5) Scooped up Morgase and company.

 

6) Accomplished his mission of getting Masema, and incidentally fed most of the Prophet's army into the meat grinder.

 

Third, he is also in a good position to potentially facilitate alot of action in AMoL.

 

1) He's close enough physically to Mat that their ta'veren-ness could draw them together. Mat's gonna need to Travel in AMoL, and Perrin has loyal Asha'man with him.

 

2) Perrin is going back to Rand at some point, and he has Tam with him. That reunion could be important for Rand.

 

3) In a post Tarmon Gai'don crisis, having established a relationship with Lieutenant-General Tylee Khirgan will help Mat make peace.

 

4) If Gawyn does come for Rand, having Morgase nearby could solve alot of problems.

 

Those are purely speculative, of course, but they are possibilities engendered by one thing: the capture of Faile.

 

So, it may have been long and drawn out ... but like the entire book Bloody Crossroads of Flaming Twilight, it seems to have been necessary.

[Luckers]

1) He's close enough physically to Mat that their ta'veren-ness could draw them together. Mat's gonna need to Travel in AMoL, and Perrin has loyal Asha'man with him.

 

He doesn't really. At his rate of travel he would be well into Andor by the time Tuon reached Ebou Dar. A week more and he'll be at the Tower of Ghenji.

[RobertAlexWillis]

He doesn't really. At his rate of travel he would be well into Andor by the time Tuon reached Ebou Dar. A week more and he'll be at the Tower of Ghenji.

 

Mat could get to the Tower in fairly good time, but getting from the Tower to the scene of the rest of the action in good time will probably require some help.

 

It doesn't have to come from Perrin, I was just saying that Perrin is in a position where it could plausibly come from him. I think its more likely that it will come from Verin.

[Luckers]

Actually my suspicion is that Mat will meet up with Elayne as she is organising the armies of Andor to go to the aid of the Tower in the face of the Seanchan attack... but meh, i suppose it could as easily be Perrin.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually my suspicion is that Mat will meet up with Elayne as she is organising the armies of Andor to go to the aid of the Tower in the face of the Seanchan attack... but meh, i suppose it could as easily be Perrin.

 

Thats entirely possible too. Mat could go in any of several directions at this point, and Andor is certainly one that makes sense.

 

I was just pointing out that Perrin's current position gives him alot of options too, so that the rescue of Faile was not a complete waste of time, as far as the Pattern is concerned. Helping Mat is one of several things he is potentially in a position to do.

[Iceman]

and yet... all of that could have been accomplished AND been much more satisfying if Faile had died to a random Shaido arrow near the end there.

 

Then we wouldn't have to listen to her whining anymore and Berelain could slide in to comfort Perrin. :D

[Turgon]

Yeah, RJ uses Faile's rescue to distracte us from what is really most important about her rescue; The facilitation of many other very intriguing and useful plot points as RobertAxl pointed out. That's what's so great about these books, there is no proper way that plot lines should be concluded, and RJ doesn't make us feel like we are reading a tv miniseries. in real life stories don't end neatly and plot lines are not resolved the way we think they should be. Thats why WoT is awesome its a completely Different wolrd with a very real feel to it. The random way in which the characters are used actually makes the story beleivable. I actually found Faile's resuce to be some of my favorite parts of the past 3 books. (And her kiddnapping is own of the best parts of to the ending of PoD.) Not because i really care all that much about faile (she can be a little anoying) But i was way more excited to read about Perrin and him dealing with Aiel wise ones, Ashaman, "tammed" Aes Sedai apprentices, other Aes Sedai, Elyas, the two rivers folk, Berelain and her gaurds, the Ghealans and their queen, failes very annoying spy group, add in the prophet, and the seanchan, ALL while trying to resuce faile- i was totally entertained by perrin's relectance to be a leader and only driven by his desire to have his wife back (even if i don't like her), but his Taveren makes him into this very compelling character and it is great to watch the pov's of other characters as they watch perrin trying to bring about failes resuce. It some of my favorite parts of the book.

[frozen Turkey]

Lol although i did find Perrins knot tying and one track mind rather annoying, i do understand how Failes capture was necessary for the plot.

 

I especially liked how RJ introduced that Shaido Aiel, Rolan, (I think) and made him out to be a good guy, trying to help Faile and win her over. Then Perrin comes and plants an axe blade squarely into his chest. lol. (who says RJ doesn't kill off characters!)

[Turgon]

I really liked Rolan, interesting character, he seemed reseigned to his fate (and actively knew that it was a bad one; just the lesser of two evils in his mind)) And i think if perrin ever found out about rolan and he was still alive it would have gotten ugly.

[cannon]

I agree with what Robert said. There were a lot of plot points that developed along the way to Faile's rescue, not the least of which was finally getting rid of the Shaido, which I had been waiting for for much longer.

 

One thing unmentioned though is that Perrin fulfilled the prophecy of leaving the Axe in favor of the Hammer. He only threw away the Axe after he cut off the guy's hand in CoT, because of something Elyas had said to him much earlier about getting rid of it once you stop disliking it.

 

I suspect it would have been hard for anything other than Faile's kidnapping to place Perrin under such enormous pressure as to cause him to snap like he did in CoT. And he needed to snap to fulfill the prophecy.

[Guest Egwene]

I voted for too long...

 

And I only decided that at the end of the rescue... because up to that point I thought that there was a plotline being build involving Rolan and his faction. With his abrupt departure, that went out of the window. I feel that Faile's story with the Shaido is one part where RJ had a lot of plans, but decided that actually it would draw out the story too much. And I feel that it possibly came as a result of the increasing pressure from readers to speed up the proceedings.

 

So my main gripe really is that it would have been ok, if Faile's time with the Shaido had had some more relevance... I feel that I was deprived of the harvest after a lot of careful planting :(

 

...and of course, Perrin's willingness to sacrifice anything in order to get Faile back and the constant reminders of that, are probably the other reason why it wasn't my favourite aspect of the series.

[Bobster]

I agree that it was way too long, I guess at the begining when she was kidnapped twas interesting.... but after a while her chapters and especially the chapters about Perrin and his "Faile is the only thing that matters", I had no desire to read them. I wanted him just to go in and grab her.... so yeah twas way too long.

[Hero of Satsuma]

I think RAW had it right, it allowed RJ to move many pieces into place for future events. I just wish that he could have done it without dragging that part of the story on and on and on and on and on and you get the picture.

[Telcar]

I for one mainly disliked reading it because it all seemed so hopeless.....there he (perrin) was with I don't remember 2000 troops? 2 asha'man, 2 aes sedai? and 6 wise ones? while the shaido were maybe 200.000 troops? or something huge, and more than 200 channelers. Even if you add the seanchan help he got later they were still too few......it was a hopeless case so all Perrin could do was wait, that's why it took so "bloody" long.

[Meliane]

Well, it was long when you had to wait for books 9, 10, and 11. But I just did a re-read and it was easier to swallow. A lot of things that I thought were dragged out (Salidar, Faile kidnapping, Thom reading Moiraine's letter, Seanchan this Seanchan that, Mat getting hit by a building and disappearing for a whole book) were actually a lot more fast-paced than I had imagined before. When you read straight through 1-11, things happen a lot faster.

 

What's interesting is that a lot of things then suddenly seem to happen TOO fast. When did Berelain stop chasing Perrin (and why)?

[Guest Barmacral]

She is doing him a favour until Faile is returned I do believe.

[Hannah Banana]

Oh yeah, Egwene and Bobster. I was of half a mind to go back and actually count how many times Perrin alludes to the fact that everyone else in the world can go to hell if it saves Faile... but that would just underscore how much that line of thinking irritates me.

 

Granted, I'm not a, um.. sentimental person. So my personal empathy with his situation is very limited.

 

But yeah, everytime he said/thought that, I wanted to slap him x100,000,043.

 

I especially loved it when he randomly cuts off that Shaido's hand just to find out if Faile is alive. w00t!

 

Of course, I may not have been so irritated by Perrin being that way if Faile were a female character that was actually LIKEABLE. Such as... um... hang on, I'll think of one...

[Meliane]

Hmm.. I think we get annoyed with Perrin's mentality about Faile being his whole world because we do not understand it. We are on the outside looking in, so we see that if he lets the entire world die, she will die, too. But Perrin only sees it in context of his feelings for her. He cares for her so deeply that she is his world. We, however, don't love her that way, because we're not Perrin. We care about the rest of the world because we've had a view of all of the world that Perrin has not. I think his feelings are understandable if you think about it from his point of view, but people have a hard time doing that. Yes, he's irrational, but his deep love for someone is being put under so much stress.

 

I like that Perrin cares for her so much. Even if we can't see why!!

[Hannah Banana]

I understand that he's deeply in love with her. I get that. I get that he wants to see her safe and back with him. I don't like her, and I lose respect for him because of it, but if they're happy, more power to them.

 

You don't have to be part of the circle to understand their feelings. We can empathize with the rest of the series (for the most part) without a problem. But many of us readers have a problem with this thread.

 

And I'm sorry. Maybe I'm a cold-hearted... snake, but I can't condone sacrificing, potentially, the greater good of the WORLD, because you can't handle the thought of your loved one dying. Um, hello Anakin Skywalker? I can UNDERSTAND the fear, certainly! It's perfectly natural. But if you've got Faile on one side, and the rest of the world on the other (or, more realistically, say, 100 people)... come on, you know what choice you have to make. It's the sacrifice that people in positions of power get shafted with, unfortunately.

 

So, yeah, maybe his thoughts of "I don't care what it costs to get her back" are just baseless threats. Would he really have risked the whole world to see her safe? I doubt it. I hope not! And maybe because I feel he may be exaggerating quite a bit is another reason that his line of thought keeps irritating me. He's lucky it didn't come to that.

 

(P.S. - this isn't a rant at you Meliane, or really even a rant at all. I'm just re-reading this part of the series, and had to get my thoughts out there.)

[Myyrth]

almost 3 entire novels is far too long to rescue her, I kept on reading and being totally disgusted that I was still reading about fething Perrin chasing after bloody Faile and frakking whining about it and knotting his dumb cord. two books okay... 3 books..... *shoot myself in the head* Considering how abrupt everything was in KoD I was terribly dissapointed. I was expecting the Creator to show up for the rescue attempt. Just to do it justice after 3 books of waiting.

 

If AMoL just turns out to be a novel with all the information squashed into however many chapters, I will seriously begruge all the wasted time perrin spent chasing Faile across 3 novels.

[Light Warrior]

I thought it was really kind of beautiful of Faile to keep quiet after Perrin killed Rolan. There's a moment of hesitation that Rolan had as he was about to attack Perrin, when Faile called out Perrin's name. It's apparent that Rolan is noticing that Perrin is someone important to her, and perhaps is thinking twice about attacking him right out. Perrin obviously sees Rolan as attacking Faile, rather than the truth of having just pulled her out of a really bad situation.

 

I don't think Perrin could live with himself if he knew everything about Rolan. But then, knowing about all the flirting and stuff, maybe he could. It wouldn't be something that'd sit right with him, in any case.

[Jellybelly]

Now, come on guys. It really did not drag on all that much. I did a count, and there are only twenty chapters on Perrin and Faile in the three latest books. That includes chapters from Perrin's point of view as well as chapters from Faile's. Twenty chapters in the course of three books that consist of one hundred and two chapters, is not all that dragged out. I found that, as some people have commented, the plotline dragged somewhat during my first read, as I dreaded the three year wait. On consequent reads I have found the plotline well- balanced and well-paced.

 

As there are only between six and nine chapters of Perrin and Faile in each book, I would have to say that all this whinging about length is unfounded. The reason the thread was distrubted over three books is that it could not be completed before certain other events had occurred, so that everyone would be aligned for the finale. Temporal concerns dictated the spreading out of this plotline.

 

Some of you have complained about the fact that Perrin is willing to sacrifice the world for Faile. I actually found this to be a major source of suspense, as I constantly felt that Perrin was veering dangerously from the course of his fate. To me the Perrin/Faile thread carries a constant feeling of impending disaster. I find it a tense, well-balanced read.