Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

[Tommyrod]

Anyway I should probably read this thread over and give my thoughts before I get got tonight.

[Yates]

Well whatever.

 

You just say wolfy stuff man.

Ooookay? But why are you looking for wolves ON the wagon that just nailed scum? You know where I look after a successful scum lynch. I just forgot Locke was the clear. *shrug*

[Tommyrod]

 

For day 1?  [v]##6 hours[/v].  In a game with a clock, I'd rather compress D1's sillyness and save time for scumhunting on later days.

 

I actually like this, D1 is really stupid sometimes. Id save give it more

 

[v]12 hours[v] though cause I dont want us to have to rush toooo much.

 

 

 

 

 

We lynch who I say D1

 

No exceptions

I dont wanna.

 

Could everyone please provide me with links to your recent games as townies and scum, two professional references, and copies of last year's tax filings?  Thanks in advance for your anticipated compliance

 

Sorry, they are all outdated.

 

 

 

 

 

My reasoning is fairly simple. D1 is possibly the most important info gathering day. Why cut it short? By shortening the deadline especially to less than 24 hours you sacrifice one of towns biggest advantages wrt to lynches. Our numbers advantage. With the short deadline it is nearly certain some of the non us timezone people will not be around at deadline. And those that had been active early wouldn't be able to switch a vote later as they would be asleep. Now if this were regular hammer it would likely result in s no lynch which although not optimal is better than handing mafia s free mislynch. That is what I would see happen. By setting an odd deadline it reduces town ability to control the lynch. Basically making the effective numbers more like 7-4 instead of 12-4 using standard balance. this cedes more lynch control to mafia. Add in that if we reach majority we get time back better to have more time to get people posting and taking stances. Haste makes waste.

 

As for wasting time on day one... Just say no. Do not do a bunch of silly time wasting things like banter about a made up word when you can get your point across with the established dictionary.

 

Right now suspect of kiv for the d1 is not worth trying to find mafia. RTE for his first post which read like he is very excite. (Ribs me wrong). EP for his short vote and his post to Time. Len wanted a short deadline too so throw him in that pile as well.

 

With the short time we need to get right to.it.

So im in the pile because I wanted a short deadline? See the thing is we dont want long days, especially D1, because we have a limited pool of hours. Once we run out of those hours the mafia starts getting extra kills as I believe it, which is BAD. The active people are going to be active and contribute regardless of how long the day is and the inactive people are going to be inactive. anything more than 24 hours is a waste imo. Only reason I wanted 12 was cause it was D1 and D1 typically isnt very productive at all.

 

This

 

 

This likely spews Turin as town. Lenlo's tone is overly defensive.

 

Lenlo and Kiv have a couple posts to each other that don't go anywhere. Could be nothing, could be weak scum interaction.

 

So im in the pile because I wanted a short deadline? See the thing is we dont want long days, especially D1, because we have a limited pool of hours. Once we run out of those hours the mafia starts getting extra kills as I believe it, which is BAD. The active people are going to be active and contribute regardless of how long the day is and the inactive people are going to be inactive. anything more than 24 hours is a waste imo. Only reason I wanted 12 was cause it was D1 and D1 typically isnt very productive at all.

 

 

And you're on that train too?

 

Look, I understand we got limited time, but if we take 48 hours per day, we still have 4 days. We get an extra day for every mafia we lynch. If we have 4 townie lynches and 4 mafia night kills, that's 8 people left. In the standard setup that would mean 4 town 4 mafia left. Game. Over. Day 1 is the ONLY day there is an excuse to not make (close to) 48 hours or even more than that.

 

Nullish interaction

[Tommyrod]

 

Well whatever.

 

You just say wolfy stuff man.

Ooookay? But why are you looking for wolves ON the wagon that just nailed scum? You know where I look after a successful scum lynch. I just forgot Locke was the clear. *shrug*

 

 

Because it's obvious I'm the cop and it's obvious the wolves knew that immediately and threw Lenlo away?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

And that means that D1, which is a day on which we can't reasonably expect to lynch scum, needed to be a short day.  And I'll go out on a limb and say that D2 probably should be relatively short as well, because we need to maximize our time on days when we can expect to lynch scum.

I think you are being wonky with your math. Nights are 12 hours. Even if we set ALL days to 24 hours, we get 5 days plus 8 hours on Day 6 assuming we lynch ZERO scum. I'll tell you what, we don't deserve to win if we haven't lynched scum in a 16 player game by Day 6.

 

Also, you forget that days where we have a guilty result on a player don't need to be very long. Plus days with fewer players require less discussion as well. So, really, days can get SHORTER as we progress because we'll have more info to help us make better decisions faster.

 

Like, Day 3 would probably be a good day to reserve now as a 12 hour day. At that point our PR's would have two nights worth of investigation results.

 

So I propose D2 is 20 hours and Day 3 is 12 hours. That gives us a full 24 hours for Day 6 and beyond, not counting the time we get back plus the bonus 12 hours when we lynch scum. If we catch scum by day 3? We can "reward" ourselves by adding 4 hours to our days for each scum we catch.

 

 

For the bolded: If your focusing on PR results then rapid day/night cycles get us those two. Thing is I doubt Darthe will let the PRs say anything during the night incase they are NKed.

 

I think 24 hours for a day is plenty. Look because of the time right away this game is in overdrive, where normally the first 11 pages is complete crap.

 

I love that all we're talking about is mechanics.

The mechanics in this game are rather unique and an integral part, to be frank.

 

[v]##Time[/v]

 

I like where Kivam's head is at, I agree with him on the time thing and hes already argued its merits much better than I could. Lawyered, as his siggie says. For EP I wanna get a chance to read him better. Its been a long time since ive played with him and I remember him doin some pretty cray cray stuff before he stopped. Time though, Time I have played with more recently.

 

 

The purple response to Yates doesn't sound like w/w to me.

I have suspicions of w/w with Kivam

[Tommyrod]

 

24 hour days are still short.  So are 36 hour days.  And your 36 hour plan assures that we have no more than 36 hours for any day after Day 4 even if we do lynch mafia, which also seems like a bad idea.  So yes, I'd like to bank time on D1 and 2, and make D3 and D4 50 hour days.

I agree with this. D3 and D4 should get the most hours cause they are going to be the most important days, easily.

 

[v]##24 hours[/v]

 

 

Dude really talked to Kivam a lot.

[Tommyrod]

I dont understand how you people can possibly think theres no mafia. There being mafia is built into the mechanics of this game. Then theres Darthes OP fix. At the very least there should be a third party or something. With 12 hours nights I wouldnt find it all the surprising if the mafia/third party just missed their submit. Especially with the posting issues/inactivity some people are having.

 

Personally I want to look at the inactives and check them.

 

If we arnt going to lynch them, Id prefer not to lynch Turin. I dont see him as all the scummy myself. Ley and Yates Id be more agreeable with.

 

[v]##Vote Ley[/v]

 

He's trying to pocket Turin here. Pretty sure.

 

Why Ley? What do you think of Len and kiv?

 

 

I need more time to figure out Len. But so far he seems okay.

 

Worried about Yates again.

 

There's at least one wolf between Kivam and Yates. I don't know how to explain that but it's like 99%.

[Yates]

So we got all that time back. Another 48 hours?

 

[v]48 hours[/v]

[Tommyrod]

 

 

OK, can actually type for once. Tried to post this from my phone but it's not loading. DARTHE - I HATE TO SAY IT SINCE IT'S YOUR CENTRAL MECHANIC, BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO SUSPEND/EXTEND THE CLOCK TO ACCOUNT FOR THE POSTING PROBLEMS EVERYONE IS HAVING. I targeted WoT to kill her, for exactly the reasons I mentioned D1; it's important to know whether a scum was on the block D1, and she and Phoenix were the only two viable lynch candidates for most of the day.

 

Neither were scum, which means scum had no need to defend a mate from pressure and no particular concern which of the two ended up dead. That leads me to believe Ithi is a townie. She shifted from WoT to EP when the lynches were close to tied and nobody else was really getting pressure; there's almost no motivation for scum to make that move unless one of their own needed protecting.

 

Right now, I'm most suspicious of Turin, Tina, Yates, and Ley.

 

So, with Darthe now all but confirming a mafia is in this game, ... [v]##unvote. vote Turin[/v].

Yes, Tina was nowhere on my reads list Day2, and I've been saying Ley is town. Locke, did you and Tommy go to the same school of "make stuff up without reading the thread" or was that pure coincidence from the two of you?

This is a wolf that's about to buckle down and hard push the cop and his peek

 

Calling it now. No other reason for him to continually make statements like this

 

 

Think I'm gonna roll with this.

 

Lynch Kivam tomorrow. Lenlo was super comfortable talking "at" him and he's being shady besides.

[Tommyrod]

I need more time to figure out Len. But so far he seems okay.

 

Yates, run me through what you were thinking when you answered this.

[Tommyrod]

First *mod of BT Mafia hat on*

 

Ley and Tommy please do not make anything personal. At this point both of you have and it is unacceptable. I invite you to review our CoC here at the BT and if a transgression happens again I will make sure you review it. It is not acceptable, especially from two Mafia veterans. You know better. You're adults. Act like it.

 

*mod of BT mafia hat off*

 

Ok, [v] Lenlo [/v]

 

This is by far the most informative lynch possible given Tommy's supposed results, bar none. 

 

Town read on Locke, Ley, Tina.  Unsure about Kivam now. No read on Dice, Pral, AJ (evidently) and more or less everyone else. Would be nice to be around when people are active and I will be here for the next few hours so hopefully can engage more/better.

 

K cool this is good. Scum doesn't say stuff like this after there was easy opportunity to push a different wagon; I had unclaimed my wolf peek on Len at this point.

 

RTE is town.

[Yates]

 

I need more time to figure out Len. But so far he seems okay.

Worried about Yates again.

 

There's at least one wolf between Kivam and Yates. I don't know how to explain that but it's like 99%.

 

He wasn't posting overly Town but he wasn't being overtly scummy either. *shrug*

 

If you really think there's one scum between me and Kivam, investigate Kivam tonight. He claimed a ~vig role on a night there was only one kill. I would want to rule out scum covering their bases in case of a watcher/tracker.

 

My claim is BP and has been on the table so there's no excuse for me to ever leave my house.

[Tommyrod]

 

See, this pings for me.  Reads way too much like magnanimous scum brushing off a townie.  Maybe Yates or other people who have played with Tommy a lot will back you up on this, but if I were the target of a false cop claim, I'd be calling the claimant scum and considering the possibility that it was a poor town play a distant second.

Oh boy, do I love the smell of Tommy bull crap in the afternoon. Its a smell ive become familiar with at this point. 

 

So once again Tommy pulls some stupid plan he thinks is genius out as a way to try and get someone he thinks is scum lynched without ever actually legit casing them. Funny thing is this is actually a town Tommy thing. Only town Tommy can think this is a good idea, cause I doubt scum tom would rely on something so stupid.

 

 

I wanna lynch RTE the most.

 

I think Kivam has a non town agenda. Too much rhetoric.

 

Lenlo has some of the scummiest posts ITT, especially the "of COURSE there's mafia in this game you bozo!" type posts.

Really? Explain why. Please, for me lover.

 

 

Mmm this post is okay though. I think.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

I need more time to figure out Len. But so far he seems okay.

Worried about Yates again.

 

There's at least one wolf between Kivam and Yates. I don't know how to explain that but it's like 99%.

 

He wasn't posting overly Town but he wasn't being overtly scummy either. *shrug*

 

If you really think there's one scum between me and Kivam, investigate Kivam tonight. He claimed a ~vig role on a night there was only one kill. I would want to rule out scum covering their bases in case of a watcher/tracker.

 

My claim is BP and has been on the table so there's no excuse for me to ever leave my house.

 

 

Well obviously I'm dead tonight. And the purple is what I immediately thought of when I saw the claim, yeah.

[Yates]

Yates, run me through what you were thinking when you answered this.

Basically, what I said above. Check out his ISO. There's nothing I saw that was an "ah ha!" post for me prior to your claim. If you disagree, I'd love for you to tell me which one raised the flag for you so I can read him better in the future.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

See, this pings for me.  Reads way too much like magnanimous scum brushing off a townie.  Maybe Yates or other people who have played with Tommy a lot will back you up on this, but if I were the target of a false cop claim, I'd be calling the claimant scum and considering the possibility that it was a poor town play a distant second.

Oh boy, do I love the smell of Tommy bull crap in the afternoon. Its a smell ive become familiar with at this point. 

 

So once again Tommy pulls some stupid plan he thinks is genius out as a way to try and get someone he thinks is scum lynched without ever actually legit casing them. Funny thing is this is actually a town Tommy thing. Only town Tommy can think this is a good idea, cause I doubt scum tom would rely on something so stupid.

 

 

I wanna lynch RTE the most.

 

I think Kivam has a non town agenda. Too much rhetoric.

 

Lenlo has some of the scummiest posts ITT, especially the "of COURSE there's mafia in this game you bozo!" type posts.

Really? Explain why. Please, for me lover.

 

Ive just gotten used to Tommys stupid, and ive only seen him scum once or twice. Both of those times though he never did anything I would call outright stupid like I would this. My first reaction was, yes, omg he must be scum. But then I remembered who it was. This is the guy who claims multiple anti-town roles on D1, starts CFDs and screws with people just cause he can/get a reaction out of people.

 

 

...idk. I could still see this being w/w.

 

Kivam is gonna need to be lynched eventually. Maybe not tomorrow though. Let's see if he kills scum tonight.

[Tommyrod]

 

Yates, run me through what you were thinking when you answered this.

Basically, what I said above. Check out his ISO. There's nothing I saw that was an "ah ha!" post for me prior to your claim. If you disagree, I'd love for you to tell me which one raised the flag for you so I can read him better in the future.

 

Well I had extra info but the post where he said "of course there's scum in this game blah blah blah" was fully outing in a way I don't know how to explain to you, the posts pushing the 24 hour days early on was pretty wolfy as well.

[Tommyrod]

now

 

first can i say I hate tommy??   headdesk  he's done it again.  havent gone and looked but tommy didnt u throw out a Mason line at the beginning of the game?  and now an unofficial cop claim where you jump off the person and then "unclaim" it??  gimme a break willya?? cant you play straight just once??  and the worst thing is  this time i think your town!

 

fine reading thru all that makes me think tommys the cop. That post where he said US COPS  i read as us  no US as in United States. also seeing as its D3 id expect him to be CCd by now

 

what i DIDNT like was ley's bit about vetting tommy by lynching len OR by lynching tommy.  that makes no sense. he basically claimed cop so if un cc'd you lynch his read first THEN if its wrong you look at lynching him. and that doesnt always happen after the first wrong result either.

 

in regards to len  I read that len link and i didnt get that ithi was sus on len as much as she was on thane.

 

 

 

 

so over all lets see what lies tommy has spun this time.

 

##vote lenlo

 

Lol I really don't know what to make of this. It seems so stupid that maybe Dice is town and just... flailing around wildly.

[Tommyrod]

I wouldn't mind seeing you kill Tina tonight, Kivam.

Both you and Pral think she's scum; she thinks Dice is scum. If she dies as mafia that would kinda clear all three of you. That would help a lot.

[Yates]

Alright. Well, I didn't find that scummy because I'm pretty sure I'm the one that presented that idea. So for me, that was totally null mechanics talk.

 

Also, don't give up yet. I have a feeling "babysitter" wasn't the only protective role...

[Tommyrod]

 

 

"so over all lets see what lies tommy has spun this time.

 

##vote lenlo"

 

That is a scum claim. Period. There's no villager logic thee.

Thats not even the whole quote, but alright. And yeah theres no logic there cause its me taking a shot at you cause you like to do stupid things.

...did you just out yourself by forgetting what you wrote?

 

Cuz that's a quote from Dice, not from you.

 

 

 

 

 

"so over all lets see what lies tommy has spun this time.

 

##vote lenlo"

 

That is a scum claim. Period. There's no villager logic thee.

Thats not even the whole quote, but alright. And yeah theres no logic there cause its me taking a shot at you cause you like to do stupid things.

 

 

Wait, what? Tommy probably got a point in above post...

 

When's deadline exactly?

 

 

 

I wouldn't go THAT far yet, but it doesn't look too good. I'm probably going to iso him when I'm more awake tomorrow. Now is bedtime. I came here mostly to check the deadline wasn't this night.

 

Despite Ley voting for Dice at EOD, I would be pretty surprised if Ley was mafia here. He'd be slick as hell if he is.

 

 

I just want to finish lynching Lenlo and be done with it.

 

This doesn't feel w/w either, not when there was a chance to lynch someone else. This is null if Dice is mafia.

 

 

You're the only one that believes Tommy's claim, and I can't understand why?

Have you ever considered the possibility that the gambit is the unclaim?

 

 

Sounds a bit more like a villager I think?

[Tommyrod]

1 Eternal Phoenix - Norley, Vanilla Town Lynched Day One

2 Tina

3 RTE

4 Dice

5 Thane - Algarin Pendaloan, Vanilla Town Lynched Day Two

6 Len - Mafia Goon

7 Turin

8 Ithi - Trost, Vanilla Town Killed Night Two

9 Tommy (reserve)

10 Laya

11 WOT - Antail, Town Babysitter Killed Night One

12 Ley

13 Kivam

14 Locke

15 AJ

16 Yates

 

All the scum are in Tina/Dice/Pral/Kivam/AJ (who is gonna get MK'd anyway)

 

I think the most obvious team in terms of "pushing Tina" is Kivam/Pral/Dice

 

We'll see what happens tonight

 

Kivam, you better hit scum tonight. I'd suggest resolving one of Dice or Tina.

[Tommyrod]

But if Kivam kills Tina and Tina flips town, Dice/Pral/Kivam should all be lynched barring new information, because there's 2+ wolves in there.

[Yates]

But if Kivam kills Tina and Tina flips town, Dice/Pral/Kivam should all be lynched barring new information, because there's 2+ wolves in there.

Done. And I think Dice is Town, fwiw.

[Tommyrod]

Okay well barring some kind of super-tricky wolf like Leyrann, this game is about locked so I'm gonna dip out, good luck.