Cleanse the Tower - Black Tower Mafia Day 2

[Thane Vakarian]

dice and myself have a similar style in the game. I have the problem that i can't wrtie down what my head thinks :/ 

 

I did think that Time was town here.... bummer... 

 

Kivam: you have a town PR then.... i think a mass reveal is a bad idea. Especially this early in game.  

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Hi all,

 

I've had the worst travel luck in the history of ever but now on a coach back to Bristol and am caught up.

 

The EP lynch I think had sound reasoning behind it, at least as sound as any Day 1 lynch can be. Kivam had his reasons and like someone mentioned I believe his claim given its timing and how forthcoming he has been about it. What I don't believe is that there are no mafia. Aside from the killing mechanic mafia are also implicated in the hour mechanic. Don't think they can't exist for this reason.

 

I need to go over again for reads but wondering if Ithi and Turin have decided what they think the other's alignment is. Right now I have a town read on Kivam and town lean on Ley, Thane, and Dice. Will look through again and be around from now on.

[Pralaya]

For some reason, I totally missed this role PM !

[Pralaya]

It is day 2 already? LOL. 

[Pralaya]

Catching up now..... will be back in an hour

[Thane Vakarian]

Welcome RTE and Pral... right on time

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Hey I was already checked in at least. Don't lump us in the same boat

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm curious what you two have to add in the few hours that are left. And i'm actually waiting on a Tommy CFD on me.... 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

How many left exactly?

[Thane Vakarian]

if i guess correctly, around 14.5 hours.

[Kivam]

I've run "no mafia" games before.  As a mod, you need to insinuate that there's a mafia, create a mechanic by which townies kill other townies, and leave clues that, if picked up on, would clue in the player base (in this case, the taint - i.e. delusional good guys driven to kill - identified as the cause of the problem).  Short of Darthe expressly declaring "there is a mafia," I'd like a quick no lynch vote to preserve time, town's agreement not to use any action that could kill tonight (I'll holster, obviously), and let's see what happens.  At worst, we end up with an extra dead townie (likely me, as an outed power role that people are believing), an extra cop investigation, and no change to the number of lynches we have before losing. (Assuming a kill, there would be 13 players, likely 4 scum, meaning scum would need 5 additional deaths to win = still 3 lynch days).

 

I also propose everyone shares their reads list before dawn.  I don't see a downside to no lynch in this situation.

[Kivam]

A few more clues:

 

 

South the wend blew, over scores of Trollocs and fearsome beasts.  It crossed a miasma of disease bludgeoning life into submission so that even the plants looked sickly and withered.  The wind blew downwards, picking up the sickly-sweet stench of death and carrying it onward past the fortresses of Arafel and over stretched out plains of wilderness before reaching Tar Valon.  There, the White Tower rose up as if to slice the wind in two and slay it, but the wind slid harmlessly by.  South it traveled, swirling as it reached Dragonmount, it's boiling peak reaching above the clouds, and there, at the base of the mountain, the wind gently blew across the bow of Rand Al'Thor, with his arm behind his back, engaged with none other than Lews Therin Telaman, the Kinslayer himself.

 

"Kill them all!  Kill them! Kill them now! Kill them before it is too late!" The madman's ravings had been set off again by the Asha'man.  Rand had come to accept his own madness, embrace it even, and so Lews Therin had been around much more often.  Still, this particular advice did him no favor.

 

"Death will not win me the Last Battle.  You well know this.  I need them.  I cannot deny that this will be more difficult now but that will be our burden to barebear."  Lews looked up as Rand spoke.  Since Rand had come to accept him it seemed that Lews Therin more easily acknowledged the world around him now.

 

"Need them, yes.  Training your own enemies though, is bad path to travel on if you desire success." Lews tutted his tongue as he said this, a new gesture for him.  It seemed that at times the man was completely sane.  How had Rand ever truly thought otherwise?  

 

He was right, of course.  When Logain brought the news that some were being turned inside his own camp Rand immediately had thought to destroy them all as well.  Logain was livid when Rand instead sent him away.  He didn't know that Lews Therin had nearly snatched the One Power away from him in that moment, didn't know how possible it was that Rand would end up killing everyone, good or evil, or that Rand was already so close to letting everything slip through his fingers.  Maybe Rand was mad already, had already done these things and didn't know it himself, but he didn't think so.  

 

Better by far that the Tower tend to this on their own.

 

Also note that the PMs had no win condition

[Leyrann]

There is one important point you are forgetting, Kivam. Mafia can just hold too, and we would then think there was none.

 

As I'm writing this post though... We could continue that and mafia would have to kill or we'd get an ...all lived happily ever after.

 

[v] ## no lynch [/v]

[Kivam]

I am unable to post on the computer. Reply boxes don't work. Mafia could indeed no kill repeatedly but if they exist that gives our cop forever to find them, so that's unlikely.

[Pralaya]

A few more clues:

 

 

South the wend blew, over scores of Trollocs and fearsome beasts.  It crossed a miasma of disease bludgeoning life into submission so that even the plants looked sickly and withered.  The wind blew downwards, picking up the sickly-sweet stench of death and carrying it onward past the fortresses of Arafel and over stretched out plains of wilderness before reaching Tar Valon.  There, the White Tower rose up as if to slice the wind in two and slay it, but the wind slid harmlessly by.  South it traveled, swirling as it reached Dragonmount, it's boiling peak reaching above the clouds, and there, at the base of the mountain, the wind gently blew across the bow of Rand Al'Thor, with his arm behind his back, engaged with none other than Lews Therin Telaman, the Kinslayer himself.

 

"Kill them all!  Kill them! Kill them now! Kill them before it is too late!" The madman's ravings had been set off again by the Asha'man.  Rand had come to accept his own madness, embrace it even, and so Lews Therin had been around much more often.  Still, this particular advice did him no favor.

 

"Death will not win me the Last Battle.  You well know this.  I need them.  I cannot deny that this will be more difficult now but that will be our burden to barebear."  Lews looked up as Rand spoke.  Since Rand had come to accept him it seemed that Lews Therin more easily acknowledged the world around him now.

 

"Need them, yes.  Training your own enemies though, is bad path to travel on if you desire success." Lews tutted his tongue as he said this, a new gesture for him.  It seemed that at times the man was completely sane.  How had Rand ever truly thought otherwise?  

 

He was right, of course.  When Logain brought the news that some were being turned inside his own camp Rand immediately had thought to destroy them all as well.  Logain was livid when Rand instead sent him away.  He didn't know that Lews Therin had nearly snatched the One Power away from him in that moment, didn't know how possible it was that Rand would end up killing everyone, good or evil, or that Rand was already so close to letting everything slip through his fingers.  Maybe Rand was mad already, had already done these things and didn't know it himself, but he didn't think so.  

 

Better by far that the Tower tend to this on their own.

 

Also note that the PMs had no win condition

 

More likely it is a recruitment game. Especially with the theme that the taint is turning people. 

 

Also, no lynch is bad for us. Especially since after 192 hours, mafia might start getting 2 NKs a night ... so we have to us all the time we have before then.

[Leyrann]

@Pral: Nowhere does it say that the Taint turns people, and Logain may be mad too, seeing turnings that don't happen. Don't forget Rand seems quite mad himself. More than even in the gathering storm, I'd say. We wouldn't really lose anything from not lynching, except a bit of time in exchange for information. Also don't forget that not lynching anyone is better than lynching a townie, so how much are we likely going to lose from a no lynch day 2?

[Yates]

As I'm writing this post though... We could continue that and mafia would have to kill or we'd get an ...all lived happily ever after.

Nope. You guys are being goobers. We run out of time, we lose.

 

Read the mechanics section in the OP:

Mechanics:

5) There are two ways to get more time.  If a member of the mafia is killed then the town will get back the time allotted for that persons' lynch phase + 12 hours.  Alternately, should time run out the Mafia will select a player.  That player will be considered as an extra NK and town will get back 24 hours for every 50 posts that player has made, minimum of 24 hours for a player with less than 24 hours.  The mafia also has to NK a member with less posts than the person they pick for that evening.

 

6) Should time run out and there not be an additional player to sacrifice before reaching parity etc. Mafia wins.

[Leyrann]

Read what Kivam said. If we lose one member this cycle, nothing changes for how much time until we lose majority. About the time we have... Today again we were under the time, this time even 16 hours (it was 20 hours day right), which means we already saved up 28 hours from my calculations on when we lose majority, which is a FULL extra day. You're being too picky on the time we have. It's more than you seem to believe. Let me put it like this for clarity:

 

If Town votes no lynch, the day majority is lost in the case no mafia ever gets killed either remains the same, or is delayed by one day. According to Kivam's calculations, at this moment in this game it would be delayed by one day.

We already saved up 28 hours from the 36-hour average day which is what we can take, which means we already have a day extra on that part too.

 

TL:DR: Not lynching right now might sound bad, but it doesn't actually lose us anything, while it might win us a whole lot (if we are right).

[Leyrann]

And don't forget that Darthe MIGHT be misleading us. I don't know him well enough to say for sure wheter he'd play bastard mod or not, only that he tends to make really awesome and creative games.

[Thane Vakarian]

dunno if Darthe willingly would mislead us. I don't have that much experience with experimental games (and this one, yeah, breaks my head)

 

[v]Tommy[/v]

 

Thread needs moar Tommy and AJ....

[Yates]

TL:DR: Not lynching right now might sound bad, but it doesn't actually lose us anything, while it might win us a whole lot (if we are right).

No. If we no lynch, mafia get to kill TWO villagers with fewer than 50 posts and we don't get any time back.

 

No lynch is the worst idea imaginable for Town.

[Darthe]

So meta

[Thane Vakarian]

i think not mynching is bad. And now, instead of talking about mechanics and setup... which is all quite interesting, admitted... who's top suspect for everybody?

[Thane Vakarian]

lynching* damn typo

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Inclined to agree with Yates. Info = power and no lynch doesn't give us much info. For instance lynching someone doesn't mean we won't get info about the mafia, no matter how the person flips, as we can't expect the mafia to decide on no lynch every night.