[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Cass]

Noting Wombat's cautions, and remembering to keep considering I am missing stuff on other players + definitely may be wrong (more analysis required), my current gut reads are:

 

Dodgy:

Thane

Nyn

Barm

Any order

 

 

Maybe Dodgy

Des,

Wom,

Pral (with caution...?link with Thane + Nyn both voting against..?Could be key).

 

 

Either awesomely dodgy or just brilliantly awesome:

Kiv DPR

 

*Considers vote for Barm*

[dicetosser1]

 

 

The rest of the scum are RB and two vigs.

 

All three are vital for scum to win this game. That is why your whole push is funny - when your big argument is that the GF was bussing the other important roles on D1.

 

Wow you're right. Yates always plays it's safe. 

 

 

This is not about playing safe. The setup is clearly not designed for bussing. You are over-reaching here.

 

 

I recently watched yates win a game as a member of a three member team on his own. Pretty sure he bussed too. Your argument is void

 

That being said, I think I'm actually going to table the DPR read for a little bit. Would rather get a wide scope of everything, and maybe his bad and scummy play can be excused partly on rust, partly on not being used to new DM environment, and partly on me even (considering our history). I STILL think his push on Sili yesterday, regarding "evidence" was mightly wolfy, but eh we're not out here to catch ONE scum, but to pokecatchemall.

 

So I want to at least reread all of Yates' posts obviously, and if possible reread all of D1 to see how others interacted with him.

 

Off the top of my head tho, I'm about ready to lock clear Dice. Despite me just mentioning Yates' penchant for gambits, I actually don't think he'd "clear" a teammate with his opening seer claim thing. Dice's reaction and seeming to genuinely believe Yates had "cleared" him also kinda seems like genuine town Dice as well. Don't expect anyone else to take this as gospel, but yeah I don't think Dice is mafia here at least. MAYBE SK, for how quick he jumped on board being "cleared", but don't think he's teammates with Dice

 

Probably should do this but Des while you are right that im town, your wrong about me believing him.  I actually didnt. I thought he was fakeclaiming but wasnt TOTALLY sure. It seemed too coincidental that hed get seer and then happen to get me to clear, especially if done randomly like he said. However it didn't enter my head that he was mafia either. think he's post about not using our little things made me think the wrong way on him.

 

I asked you about his claim because you had as grouped together in your reads list but never mentioned it which i found odd.

[hazelkrs1]

I need fantasy football advice plzzzzzzzzz

 

Anyone? Anyone interested in hearing my plight?

[Darthe]

Im off work! Gawd this has been dreadfully long. Fantasy advice? I uust started digging into the game this year but am glad to lend what little bit I know.

 

Ill be reading up after I get home.

[Darthe]

I got home and some stuff has come up.  Sorry all, I don't feel up to this tonight.  I'll touch on it in the morning.

[Andrej]

TGIF my friends.

 

I'll be home in a bit and I'll start digging in properly. I've kinda power skimmed throughout the day so I'm aware of the flips and there were specifics things I wanted to respond to this morning but wasn't able to with my shortness of time. You guys have got me for the night so enjoy me

[Andrej]

Off the top of my head I'm not really shocked Yates flipped scum after the 3A thing. This makes Pral look good because Arsis called him out instantly for it. I guess I was just kinda hoping that wasn't the case. And before anyone start to bash for it, SMD kindly. I would much rather catch a player I respect such as Yates on legit gameplay over some silly tell that began as a joke and progressed into a acknowledged truth between us. Anyway - good shooting to whomever capped him.

 

I remember a lot of discussion revolving the 3 deaths when there were 4 available and for the moment I think that sort of discussion is kinda aimless at the moment until more info is revealed.

 

As far as my N1 peek went, I may or may not have found a wolf. I'll keep that close to chest atm because I want to reread and see who is talking and pushing what.

[WWWwombat]

I got home and some stuff has come up.  Sorry all, I don't feel up to this tonight.  I'll touch on it in the morning.

 

BUT I WANT MORE DARTHE

[WWWwombat]

As far as my N1 peek went, I may or may not have found a wolf. I'll keep that close to chest atm because I want to reread and see who is talking and pushing what.

 

Ditto.  COME @ ME WILVES!

[Songstress]

A few quick takes based on the day/night results and discussion so far...

 

Des is still firmly on my town list.

 

Womby bumps down a notch.

 

Pral jumps up to tentative town - based on Despo's Yates Spew Analysis in part, but also because I don't see Scum!Pral dropping his push on me after realizing Yates never mentioned me in his reads list.  

 

DPR still looks sketchy to me.

 

Rags still looks pretty townie.

 

Little less sure of Thane.

 

I need to re-read and recalibrate, and tomorrow will be a fine, fine day for that.  Tonight is for unwinding from a long, stressful week.  Expect more activity from me for the next two days.

[Andrej]

Hi Womby.

 

Slank mode is now being deactivated.

 

@Kivam I'll quote your response later but I've been itching to respond to you since the thread has been locked and I've been away.

 

Firstly - looks like I was correct in my pg4 snap read on Leelou. Imagine that. I don't care what you think about tone reading but it is a thing and generally I'm fairly good at recognizing good mind sets when I see it. In a vacuum, as I stated, her behavior was villager driven. Also, there was no subtext to my question. You can't apply subtext motive while entirely disregarding context. Even if my intent was to shift attention back to her I never actually pushed her negatively and stated a few times in following posts how I actually thought it was a good sign. So, as a wolf, why would I turn the spotlight back onto a player and simultaneously defend the action I was highlighting?

 

Also, also - I highly dislike how you characterize my behavior as scummy to begin with, with the "spotlight" thing but by the end of the post you are talking to me as if I'm making bad reads for stupid reasons. Kinda gives me the vibe you know that I'm a villager. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth in that one.

[Andrej]

I'd like to unwind too Tress

[WWWwombat]

That's fortunate if you are town, AJ, cuz I'm activating slank mode.

[Andrej]

Village Captain assuming control.

 

Chain of Command, people.

[hazelkrs1]

1. Yates said that the Darthe 52% thing was classic town Darthe.

 

2. The Tress thing struck me as a comment scum would make to follow up on later to get a mislynch.  Hence my reasoning. 

 

3. I never said that Yates spewed Womby, but that Womby went after Yates.  Didn't strike me as scum/scum interaction as much. 

 

4. And yeah, I just didn't quote the Leelou/Stelio stuff cause they're dead and I had a crapton of quotes already.

 

They are at the least evidence that Yates spewed some townies as town.

 

 

1. No I know the post or thing you're talking about, I just wanted you to expand on it a little more because I disagreed with the conclusions. Darthe had been voting Yates for what I remember was kind of a fluffed up reason most the day, then backtracked on it kind of oddly, then Yates later said the thing that looked towny for him, something that he very easily could have set Darthe up for in the QT. Imo all that doesn't discount the possibility of Darthe and Yates being scumbros here

 

2. Again kind of oversimplistic answer here, I get why you thought what you thought, was just kind of looking for more discussion here since Tress looks kinda scummy for other reasons to me

 

3. Wombat hedged on his thing on Yates immediately (he said something along the lines of "if yall are going to go after Yates for anything, go after him having little to no meaningful content. Then again, the same could be said for the majority of the game..."), and never followed up on that either

 

4. Oh I didn't realize you were using them as examples of how Yates' acted towards townies. I thought you just missed or forgot that they HAD flipped town already (derp on my part)

 

But yeah, I agree that Yates was trying to pocket a LOT of townies throughout his time ITG.

 

@Des:  I thought it was pretty obvious I was serious about my criticism of Yates' content along with the criticism of the attacks on him.  I don't see a need to answer every single rhetorical question thrown my way, and that's pretty clearly what Yates' question was imo.

 

@Wes, Cass:  Wes, I don't take anything you say at face value.  For the most part, I believe what you've been saying so far though.  As for Kivam, every argument he makes as scum is usually an argument he could make as town.  That's why he's so terrifying.  The difference is one of focus.  As scum, he won't examine certain lines of reasoning that he would as town, and he'll focus on others that he would give minimal attention as scum.  That's why I find his argument about me being the SK as wolfy.  It's internally consistent, but I don't think it's something he'd focus on yet as town.  Of course, I'll be the first to admit I could be biased from my PoV here, but that's my take.

 

@The Entire Game:  Still looks like most of you are on crazy pills.  Possible exceptions being DPR, Rags, and Despo, who may be coming down from them (too early to tell).  I think many of you need to seriously re-evaluate some of your stances.  There seems to be a lot of capricious tone-reading and black-and-white reasoning ITT.  You form reads too easily and stick to them too firmly.  This is the kind of "logic" that lets competent wolves dominate games on DM right now.  You can rarely catch good wolves that way.

 

For instance, of the people in this game, the only people alive who I actually think can tone read me reliably are Verbal and Wes (Kivam can read me well usually, but he doesn't usually go on things like tone in my experience).  Now, Verbal hasn't issued a read on me that I know of, but if you look at Wes, he was scum-reading me well before most of the rest of the game was, and now that everyone else has decided that I looked "off" at EOD, Wes seems to be one of the only people actually trying to play ball with me.  I don't know what Wes thinks of me right now, or if he's town or not, but I'd guess that he's town and that he's ambivalent on me.  Maybe you guys should consider the possibility that you are wrong.

 

Also, I'm really tired of having to write every single bit of my thought process out.  You guys should start inferring some things for yourselves.

 

Bold: It's not as much about you responding to that question specifically, I just think it could be significant that you didn't follow up on Yates at all after that

 

Underlined: All looks kinda wolfy to me tbh. Hedging, and then meta ranting/fluffing

 

Why should town consider you town just because DPR MIGHT not be scumreading you??? DPR is by no means cleared, and even then I don't see him calling you the shining paragon of townness this game

 

SO yeah, you appealing to everyone to like, give you a chance or something, based on that, is kinda weak yo

 

You know what isn't weak? Watching Kawhi get consecutive steals and one man fast breaks on the Lakers. I could literally watch that kind of action every minute of the rest of my life

 

[hazelkrs1]

Village Captain assuming control.

 

Chain of Command, people.

 

Naive LOLDESPOT reporting for doodie

[hazelkrs1]

Knaive? Ah well you know what I mean

[hazelkrs1]

A few quick takes based on the day/night results and discussion so far...

 

Des is still firmly on my town list.

 

Womby bumps down a notch.

 

Pral jumps up to tentative town - based on Despo's Yates Spew Analysis in part, but also because I don't see Scum!Pral dropping his push on me after realizing Yates never mentioned me in his reads list.  

 

DPR still looks sketchy to me.

 

Rags still looks pretty townie.

 

Little less sure of Thane.

 

I need to re-read and recalibrate, and tomorrow will be a fine, fine day for that.  Tonight is for unwinding from a long, stressful week.  Expect more activity from me for the next two days.

 

I also thought bolded looked absurdly (I love using the MESS out of that word now btw just to troll AJ LAWLZ ) townie for Pray.

 

You know what doesn't look townie at all? All the other reads doled out like applesauce without much justification, if any, given for each one. The Pray thing you almost HAD to mention, so yeah in general Tress-

 

 

Hi Womby.

 

Slank mode is now being deactivated.

 

@Kivam I'll quote your response later but I've been itching to respond to you since the thread has been locked and I've been away.

 

Firstly - looks like I was correct in my pg4 snap read on Leelou. Imagine that. I don't care what you think about tone reading but it is a thing and generally I'm fairly good at recognizing good mind sets when I see it. In a vacuum, as I stated, her behavior was villager driven. Also, there was no subtext to my question. You can't apply subtext motive while entirely disregarding context. Even if my intent was to shift attention back to her I never actually pushed her negatively and stated a few times in following posts how I actually thought it was a good sign. So, as a wolf, why would I turn the spotlight back onto a player and simultaneously defend the action I was highlighting?

 

Also, also - I highly dislike how you characterize my behavior as scummy to begin with, with the "spotlight" thing but by the end of the post you are talking to me as if I'm making bad reads for stupid reasons. Kinda gives me the vibe you know that I'm a villager. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth in that one.

 

So... once you finish patting yourself on the back (btw I've found moar townies than you so far, neener neener neener ), wanna offer stuff aside from the Kivam kick you've been on now for like forever?

[Andrej]

Form up Boots.

 

Some more stuff I remember from reading this morning:

 

Why did Cass claim VT out of nowhere?

 

Nyn suggesting the Leelou NK points to one of the old timers is villagery for her, I think. From my experience she's kinda angle-shooty like that when she's town although normally I kinda frown on that sort of speculation because it gives me TMI vibes.

 

I remember some spat with Barm/Kivam about the SK and thought it was wolfy of Kivam to mention specific players as possible SKs because that imo more aligns with a mafia mindset where they are hunting the SK as a threat to them as well.

[Andrej]

Sure LOLDESPOT.

 

I'll get around to it once I'm all comfy and settled in with my laptop and can do fancy quotes and stuff. For now I'm just going off the top while pre-shower pewp posting.

[hazelkrs1]

Lol "doodie"

[Andrej]

Duty booty imo

 

It's a real thing.

[Darthe]

Aaaand I'm back.  Can't seem to get to sleep yet.  

[WWWwombat]

Sure LOLDESPOT.

 

I'll get around to it once I'm all comfy and settled in with my laptop and can do fancy quotes and stuff. For now I'm just going off the top while pre-shower pewp posting.

 

TMI.  LOCK WOLF.

[hazelkrs1]

I've been assimilated. I figure Kevin is the most emo one on the show.