[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Andrej]

I think looking for specific actions to point to the SK will probably lead you astray. Just focus on who seems town/who doesn't. Although the SK is similar to Town in that they don't know who the wolves are they still have their own agenda and even subconsciously this will affect how they play.

 

@Csarmi - I also claimed seer cover. My N0 was Stelio

[Nynaeve]

Had a bad night and my brain died a couple of hours ago.... so I'm sorry for spelling/grammar mistakes. 

 

 

Tress ISO

 

 

OP about doc appointment. Bla bla bla. Needs coffee. Nothing game related.

 

Next post 24 hours later, apologizing for being quiet. RL reasons why. Says she’ll try to find all the quotes she wanted to respond to. Asks to bear with her.

 

She quotes Des read list (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/?p=3377227). Says she she’s having a mindmeld with Des and goes on about how it used to be a warning sign. Reminesens over old times with him. Says she most agrees with his blues (Nyn, AJ, Leelou, Wombat, Thane) and with one of his reds (Sili).  I’m really missing the reasons behind of these reads.

 

Then she quotes Sili saying his votes don’t matter early on and goes into a discussion on how it does matter in the way this game is set up. This kinda bugs me because we’re at a stage where people are already dishing out read lists… yeah she echoed Des a bit but then went on to discuss one of the more useless topics in this game. 

 

Then she goes on a praise post on how Salami is usually under-appreciated in games. How’s he’s right a lot more than she is. Yada yada yada. 

 

Cracks a joke in response to Wombat about how often Darthe has his head on straight.

 

Cracks a joke at Thane, calling him the cursed one.

 

Goes back to arguing with Sili about his vote counting and how she doesn’t like him implying bad town play. Okay. 

 

Next post is 24 hours later, depicting how the last night was a big black hole of fatigue. Says she won’t have time to reread until the weekend and she’s gonna be a lot more useful after some flips anyhow. She says she’s gonna quote some posts she remembers wanting to respond to and get out a semi-explained read list.

 

Jokes around with Wombat at his fake tongue in cheek read list of doom.

 

She quotes DPR, while complaining about the colored responses in quotes (I have to agree lol). Defends Des, saying that DPR trying to portray him as scum over the seer cover explanation is him taking it out it out of context and that all Des was saying was as a reply to him being asked about Yates town peek on dice.

 

Posts read list here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/?p=3378915

 

Blue – Desalami (Explanation: Makes sense), Kivam (explanation: Makes sense), Wombat (explanation: gut) and me (doesn’t remember what was the discussion, but something gave her good vibes).

 

Green – Yates (Explanation: comfortable calling him town), Rags (Explanation: mindmeld over him questioning his high read in Wombat’s read list) , Thane (Explanation: No specifics)

 

Gray/Null – Dice, Lee, Verbram, AJ (explanation - These 4 I don't really remember much that stuck with me one way or another)

 

Also Gray/Null Cass (explanation: Mixed feelings), Stello (explanation: No idea), Hallia (explanation: Absance).

 

Orange – Pral, Krak, Darthe (explanation: No specifics for these guys, just a gut level discomfort that I can probably go back and make less nebulous this weekend.)

 

Red – Sili (explanation: More gut feeling than anything specific), DPR (explanation: uncomfortable with his play so far, specifically how he's been interacting with Des and Cass).

 

So to recap…. Most of her reasoning behind this read list reek. This was on page 77 close to EOD1. There is absolutely no reason that I could see for her not having basis for her reads. She has a town read on me over a discussion that she doesn’t recall at all but that gave her good vibes. She admits to not reading much of Kivam’s recaps but liking the end conclusions. This doesn’t feel like a legit read list to me. Not so much the placement, but more so the lack of logic that I would expect Tress to exhibit.

 

Next she says she’s willing to vote either DPR or Sili. Drops a vote on Sili. When she votes him she says that as previously stated, he’s at her bottom two. Still bugs me that she’s not backing up her vote on him with reasons. She just says gut. I would have liked her to show what posts of his looked scummy. Pinpoint exactly what pinged her.

 

Des ughs her vote. She ughs him back and says she’s still willing to switch to DPR. Or maybe night actions will sort him out.

 

Then about 23 hours later she shows and shares a few takes after N1 results. Des still town. Womby bumps down a notch (why?). Pral jumps up to tentative town. DPR sketchy. Rags still looks townie. Little less sure of Thane. She states she needs to reread and recalibrate. Promises to do it tomorrow.

 

Post the next day that she started her reread and so far feels less good about Des and better about DPR (why? No one knows). But yeah, a recalibration is in order. Says it’s gonna take time.

 

She responds to Salami’s prod saying that she saw that it was salami, and not des, who brought up the seer cover first so she needs to analyze the whole Des/DPR interaction again. I’m not really sure why this specifically is such a point of interest. I don’t know, maybe I’m missing the point.

 

Her next post is 26 hours later, apologizing. There’s the whole thing about RL reasons and her thinking about maybe subbing out. She adds that she made an effort to keep her emo outside of the game, unlike in previous games. She said she read my ISO and keeping an eye on Verbram and that she’s still townreading me. She adds that she’s not focused but that she’s willing to interact with people real time if they want. She ends the post by saying she doesn’t have the mental power to do a big picture deal tonight.

 

Her next post is a day and a half later…. Ie today. Her posting her read list and showing all the flips on them seems very self-conscious to me. Not sure why she felt the need to showcase her reads with the flip and make a point of her mistakes in the reads. 

 

Then there’s the whole exchange I had with her where she says we should look at yates and krak spew but not Kivam’s, cause it’s wifom. I already said what I think about that. Makes no sense.

 

 

In a nutshell, I understand that real life gets in the way, but there isn't really a way to know if someone's absence has merits or not. I feel like her read list was bad considering the stage the game was in where there were countless exchanges between people to infer from. I feel that the topics she chose to touch were kinda unimportant compared to others. I miss her reasoning. I miss her doing rereads when she said she will.  The only thing that gave me pause is her AtE post. I really want to believe her but at the same time I don't know if it's in her scum range to do something like this (Salami??). I REALLY didn't like her posts today overall as I already explained. I feel like she waffled almost on every read she made. I'm not saying she can't change her mind.... but she never bothered to say what changed her mind (or what was the reason for the read to begin with)... short of one time when Salami prompted her.... so there's just no way I can even try to follow her line of thought.

[Hallia]

Kivam, just wanted to mention that i like the way you post. Doesn't necessarily clear you as 100% town, but you put your thoughts out there, clearly written.

 

  

RECAP

 

Page 13: Thane notes people are looking at Darthe, finds it "interesting".  VerBARM unvotes Thane after seeing "some real gameplay".  VERBarm agrees with Arsis that Nyn's posts about meta read as scummy (Verb, Barm, could you kindly get your heads together?  You're giving me conflicting reads here!).  Stelio defends Darthe as tending to "get out over his skis", generally dismissive (-1).  Sili asks if Andrej is scum (+1 on thought process, -1 on execution). Spam the rest of the way.

 

Page 14: Thane agrees - thread needs more Andrej.  I post and crap, without the quote feature, the post is useless.  Was noting a DesLAMI defense of Thane (joking and being jovial is typical, not a scum tell, etc.).  Same for an Arsis defense ("uncanny" how often Thane is misread as scum on D1). Spam and a discussion of vote tags.

 

Page 15: Leelou issues a clarification and Nyn gets sultry with it. No reaction from Wes, which is perplexing. Spam until Dice tosses [c what I did there?] a "welcome" vote on Cass.  15 pages of gameplay and this is what you go with?  Dice defends Yates.  Wombat has an "ok" read on Thane (really?  Why?).  Ah - he explains in the next post: Thane's "there'll be a wolf among my defenders" stand.  Darthe with a good post on VerBarm.  Has my same read (Verb sketchy, Barm solid town), so I like this post.  Calls out Thane on his Hydrafia theory (again, +1 to me).  Overall solid post, but it's worrisome that Darthe has essentially made a post identifying everyone as town.  Scum overplaying their knowledge of who is in and who is out?  Don't know Darthe well enough to know if he's a bad enough mafia player for that (unless he's a JNer with a new name, in which case he's definitely bad enough for that, since all JNers are ). 

 

Page 16: Wombat calls out VERBarm and Yates as needing to provide more gameplay, critical of Verb's reaction to Leelou's reaction to Arsis, fan of Darthe's last post.  Still happy with my Wombat read.  Wombat votes Yates.  Leelou notes Verb has her on edge.  Sili has Darthe down as scum, Darthe offers to bet him.  Sili mentions NKing Darthe to confirm the bet.  Andrej shows up, makes an unclear comment to Darthe re his reasoning for a prior argument.  Can't recall what that was at the moment.    Andrej calls out Sili as scummy.  (Andrej-Darthe interactions are interesting here).  More on Yates.

 

Page 17: More on Yates.  On the subject of abbreviations, Darthe, Sili, what the hell did this mean: "EOD CFD?"  End of Day I got, but CFD?  DesLAMI votes Krak (why?).  Sili votes Andrej - defensive or scum read?  Andrej says Sili voted Thane as an easy lynch target. 

 

Page 18: Sili asks if Andrej is reaction-baiting. More Yates (for god's sake, this needs to die. It's either scummy or it isn't, debating every f'ing page is just going in circles.  Having never played with these guys I'm chalking it up as a very light finger on the scales of scumminess but it won't drive my decisions.  Give me something else to recap, people!).  Sili votes Wombat because Sili thinks Andrej is scum (what-the-what?).  VerBARM calls out Sili's play as incredibly erratic & defensive (yes, it is). Leelou says "that's just how he plays" (I hate meta).  Arsis says Sili's play is actually different this game from when he was just lynched as town.  I still hate meta but these claims are mutually contradictory.  Arsis?  Leelou?  What say you?  Sili says he's changed his play intentionally.  Leelou - the "that's just how he plays" line seems to be emphatically rejected.  Thoughts?  VERBarm responds to Darthe & Wombat ... cogently, I think.  Sili explains he doesn't necessarily want to lynch Wombat.

 

Scum reads (in order): Andrej, Sili, Thane, Darthe (slipping down towards neutral)

Town reads: Wombat .... Nyn, VerBARM, DESlami (note the gap; through 18 pages, wombat is as solid town as I've ever seen on day 1).

  

 

Best I can do atm is top 3 and bottom 2:

Thane

Salami

Barm

Leelou

Nyn

Hmm. I pulled their reads, odd how thane and Nyn are both on their lists, but flip flopped. I'm almost positive Nyn is town though.

[Nynaeve]

I got an important question: Krak arrived close to deadline. He could have voted anyone. Why did he not ensure someone not Kiv got lynched?

Could someone check that out? It's weird.

 

 

It is weird. He could have just not shown up at all or alternatively cast a vote on AJ. He cast his vote on a train that most likely wants going to take off.  Another thing that caught my eye was when Kivam unvoted Verbram to vote AJ, and essentially shifted his own train to be the lead, instead of Verbram (if I remember right). I don't understand why he would do that

[dicetosser1]

 

 

AJ, Deslarmi, Darthe - Why has everyone gone Kivam over Wom? Make it good.

sounds quite protective over Kiv.... That, cimbined with what stood out in my previous post, makes me wonder if Cass actually slipped here... or not...

 

Vote Pral

 

 

Yolo!

Seeing Krak's flip, yeah... mixed about this. Maybe he really did Yolo, or he hopes this will push people to kill me too. 

 

my gut read on AJ is town too.

 

but i dont want kiv dead either.

 

 

cass!  get in here and vote verb !

Dice, why ask Cass to vote Verb? Unwilling to lynch Kiv because...?

 

KIV AND AJ ARE NOT THE SAME ALIGNMENT IMO

again, i tend to agree. I do think that AJ is town here. 

 

For now, my townie list would include AJ, Decsarm, Nyn, Darthe, me. 

 

not sure: dice, Rags, Tress, Pral

 

not looking too hot: Hallia, Cass

 

 

.Thane I was leaning town on kiv. Had even said so in my reads list

 

Ah, ok... saw that too. But was that the only N0 view WOmbat did?

 

First blue    if Wombat peeked hallia N0 why did he post this?  the fact that he said it about her AND cass....who thinks cass may have been his second peek?

 

 

the second blue at Thane   WHA????  how many views a night do you think he got?

[Nynaeve]

wants=wasn't

[Darthe]

@Hally you think Nyn is town or not mafia? Whats that based on?

[Thane Vakarian]

 

 

.Thane I was leaning town on kiv. Had even said so in my reads list

 

Ah, ok... saw that too. But was that the only N0 view WOmbat did?

 

First blue    if Wombat peeked hallia N0 why did he post this?  the fact that he said it about her AND cass....who thinks cass may have been his second peek?

 

 

the second blue at Thane   WHA????  how many views a night do you think he got?

 

Seer gets one vote, but what i wonder is if he only mentioned that he viewed Hallia N0 or did he mention viewing someone else too N0? Can't really ISO at work...

[Darthe]

Thane your posts make as much sense as that photo of Reagen riding a raptor while firing an RPG.

[Thane Vakarian]

Wait...what? Are you implying that that wasn't a real picture?

[Darthe]

Im strongly suggesting so

[Andrej]

@Nyn - probably because Kivam thought he'd get more momentum on my wagon after a few of his buddies expressed interest in keeping him alive. Take notice of his appeal to the masses.

 

"If you want me alive vote AJ" etc

[Thane Vakarian]

let me put it like this then: Who did Wombat mention having peeked throughout the game? 

[Darthe]

Im still sorta bugged by Womby saying Cas and Kivam had w/w equity for her soft defence of him qnd then kiv flips wolf and womby dies.

[Darthe]

let me put it like this then: Who did Wombat mention having peeked throughout the game?

God havent we already been through this like four times? It got quoted. Hally.

[csarmi]

Vote Count D2.17:

 

Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Darthe [#2728]

Verbarm (3): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500]

AJ (3): Verbarm [#2562], Kivam [#2785], Wombat [#2797]

Pral (1): Thane [#1931]

Wombat (1): DPR [#2730]

 

Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]

 

Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, Tress

 

At the gallows: Kivam

 

3x3

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

[Hallia]

@Hally you think Nyn is town or not mafia? Whats that based on?

That's a good point. Def. not mafia. She could be playing a very good SK game, I'd play that like a townie as well, so.

[Thane Vakarian]

that was N0, what about the other nights....

[Darthe]

The only other night was N1 and he didnt reveal anything for whatever reason. N2 he died.

[csarmi]

 

 

 

 

I don't count votes without ##

You're a monster.

 

 

##Vote Pral

Dafuq. 2 town 1 kivam

[csarmi]

I don't think AJ is mafia.

 

I'm not the most informed on Kivam, but between the two

 

##Vote: Kivam

Ahha.

[Thane Vakarian]

The only other night was N1 and he didnt reveal anything for whatever reason. N2 he died.

ok, thanks Darthe. I thought i had missed something, but appearantly, i hadn't. 

[csarmi]

Wait we do NOT know AJ to be town.

 

Hmm. Don't fit my leans now. Despo you gotta investigate.

[Hallia]

No, we don't know him to be, but I'd bet my bottom on it.

[Andrej]

Today's lynch should be between Tress/Rags/Nyn in my opinion. I have Cass as a slight outlier.

 

Whoever doesn't get lynched the Vig can shoot of their choosing.

 

Either way, profit is likely high.

 

Tress and Rags have both done actions I would consider "flanking" maneuvers where throughout the thread they were nipping at players like DPR when they were under some scrutiny. Despot's push was largely backed by Yates so I can see another wolf running soft assistance there, which fits both Tress and Rags actions.

 

A thought that occurred to me earlier that bothers me now if Nyn's D2 comment about the Leelou death pointing to the old timers as the culprit. I'm including in this group Verb, Kivam, DPR, and Wombat. 3/4 have now flipped green so I'm skeptical this was a set-up/monologue type post. It could imply inside knowledge of the job.