Defining DM Mafia Roles and Balance

[hazelkrs1]

I agree with the "old timers"

 

Freedom for mods is a good thing. It's on the players if they incorrectly clear or lynch a player due to confusion about mechanics, since mechanics shouldn't be that big a determining factor in whether someone is lynched or cleared in the first place. Too many bad decisions have been made in that vein.

 

You ALWAYS consider the extenuating circumstances and overall play of the players in question, and use THAT to make the best decision possible. And if there IS doubt or confusion about mechanics, try and clear it up with the mod. Most aren't that prickly about that sort of thing, they usually will clear up confusion if they feefethat confusion wasn't intended to be in the game.

[hazelkrs1]

Goes back to that lovely idiom- when you assume things, it makes an ass out of u and me.

 

Too many players make too many assumptions of the mods regarding setup and mechanics. Myself included.

[WWWwombat]

I also don't quite understand where Nolder and Darthe are coming from with their criticisms.  Darthe, I ran a very non-standard game with you and had a blast.  Some people took to it more quickly than others, but no one was outright hostile to the concept.

 

I have been on DM for a long time.  We used to call Cops "Finders" and Doctors "Healers."  Some mods also used to prohibit night chat.  Mods never provided safe claims or prohibited character claiming when I first came here.  There are definitely some others I can't think of right now.  All of these things are things that have changed because enough players and mods decided that they should.  And it all happened organically, without Verbal or anyone else in authority saying that it should or shouldn't happen.  So if Verbal is reluctant to make drastic changes without community support, that is because that is how things have worked for a while on DM.  And it has worked.  Without much drama.  Things that people like stick around and things that they don't, don't.  People here are resistant to change, but so are most people.  If your ideas are good enough, they will make it into the metagame.

 

(Also, Healer might be a good name for a DM-style self-protect doc assuming it isn't a standard role somewhere else.  I've stopped trying to keep up with MafiaWiki and other places renaming and adding/removing roles)

[WWWwombat]

Also, Tommy needs to go back to the Troll Table.

[hazelkrs1]

Well, in that vein Wombat- do you think Doc protects should protect against one shot only? Or any number of shots as is typical on DM?

 

I personally have no problem with Docs that can self protect. I like it when mods restrict their ability to protect same target in consecutive nights tho, that always seems like a fair balancing move to me

[Tommyrod]

I think it should be standard practice for doctors and roleblockers to not be allowed to target the same player on consecutive nights.

[WWWwombat]

I don't really like using self-protect docs much because I think they are boring.  But I'm ok with others doing it.  As for how many shots a doc protects against, I don't really care that much as long as the mod tells the person with the doc role exactly how the role works.

[Andrej]

That's a mechanic that I've implented in the past irt Docs and their protection targets. In my first game (The Walking Dead) I intentionally made it so that the Doc couldn't target the same player on consecutive Nights to prevent a 'follow-the-cop' trend since the mafia team were without a GF. I think it worked out rather well in the end and sort of forced the Doc to make more optimal choices with their NA.

 

The big thing I want to say is that I think the swing of the game should rely more heavily on the actions/decisions players make without the influence of mechanical/set up stuff. THIS is why I think having some sort of established base line is a positive thing.

[WWWwombat]

I think it should be standard practice for doctors and roleblockers to not be allowed to target the same player on consecutive nights.

 

Maybe.  Follow the Cop and the mafia constantly stuffing the biggest town PR can get boring.  But I don't think that's the kind of thing that should be regulated for the most part.  It's also easy enough for a mod to discourage that kind of behavior in others ways, like Watchers.

[Andrej]

Or a sane and insane Cop combo.

 

<_<

[Tommyrod]

 

I think it should be standard practice for doctors and roleblockers to not be allowed to target the same player on consecutive nights.

 

Maybe.  Follow the Cop and the mafia constantly stuffing the biggest town PR can get boring.  But I don't think that's the kind of thing that should be regulated for the most part.  It's also easy enough for a mod to discourage that kind of behavior in others ways, like Watchers.

 

 

I think it's a form of gamebreaking when a doc can self protect each night (or scum can roleblock the cop every night and keep them alive).

[Clovdyx]

 

I think it should be standard practice for doctors and roleblockers to not be allowed to target the same player on consecutive nights.

 

Maybe.  Follow the Cop and the mafia constantly stuffing the biggest town PR can get boring.  But I don't think that's the kind of thing that should be regulated for the most part.  It's also easy enough for a mod to discourage that kind of behavior in others ways, like Watchers.

 

 

The point of having a Cop is to play "Follow the Cop", though, IMO.  

[Clovdyx]

 

 

I think it should be standard practice for doctors and roleblockers to not be allowed to target the same player on consecutive nights.

 

Maybe.  Follow the Cop and the mafia constantly stuffing the biggest town PR can get boring.  But I don't think that's the kind of thing that should be regulated for the most part.  It's also easy enough for a mod to discourage that kind of behavior in others ways, like Watchers.

 

 

I think it's a form of gamebreaking when a doc can self protect each night (or scum can roleblock the cop every night and keep them alive).

 

 

Can you provide a scenario where this has happened?  I've never seen a single game that this was proven true.

[WWWwombat]

Or a sane and insane Cop combo.

 

<_<

 

=D

[Andrej]

 

Or a sane and insane Cop combo.

 

<_<

 

=D

 

That was a cool game imo.

[Tommyrod]

Players not maximizing the overpowered potential of their roles doesn't mean the roles should stay overpowered.

[Clovdyx]

If you think something has potential to be overpowered, and it never comes to fruition, it's probably not overpowered - you're probably just wrong.

[Tommyrod]

I don't think there should be such a thing as a completely invincible player. Even bulletproof should be 1x, for example.

[WWWwombat]

Tree stumps are the best imo.

[Darthe]

I also don't quite understand where Nolder and Darthe are coming from with their criticisms.  Darthe, I ran a very non-standard game with you and had a blast.  Some people took to it more quickly than others, but no one was outright hostile to the concept.

 

I have been on DM for a long time.  We used to call Cops "Finders" and Doctors "Healers."  Some mods also used to prohibit night chat.  Mods never provided safe claims or prohibited character claiming when I first came here.  There are definitely some others I can't think of right now.  All of these things are things that have changed because enough players and mods decided that they should.  And it all happened organically, without Verbal or anyone else in authority saying that it should or shouldn't happen.  So if Verbal is reluctant to make drastic changes without community support, that is because that is how things have worked for a while on DM.  And it has worked.  Without much drama.  Things that people like stick around and things that they don't, don't.  People here are resistant to change, but so are most people.  If your ideas are good enough, they will make it into the metagame.

 

(Also, Healer might be a good name for a DM-style self-protect doc assuming it isn't a standard role somewhere else.  I've stopped trying to keep up with MafiaWiki and other places renaming and adding/removing roles)

 

I was responding to the post above when Nol said that every time he made a topic like this it flopped.  Modding experiences here have been wonderful and I couldn't ask for much more on that front (except maybe more players).

[WWWwombat]

I think a lot of people just like to play a lot more than they like to discuss.  And some people (like me) just aren't always around a lot.

[Clovdyx]

Tree stumps are the best imo.

 

Wombat is "RNGing" a tree stump in Clovfia 2.0.

 

But you can only stump yourself every other night.  Sorry brother.

[Nolder]

and lol old guard and new guard. it's not the same people who don't like the same old attempt at regimentation but it probably is for the same reasons.

It's the same people more or less.

I'm not here to point fingers or take a poll but every time discussion comes up about changing how DM mafia is ran there's always a group of people who say it's fine. It's cool if you take the position of "if it's not broken don't fix it" but I think it could run much smoother and be easier for new players to get into if some tweaks were made. You don't need to worry, people who think like me have been in the minority since I've been here and I don't think that's changing.

 

I also don't quite understand where Nolder and Darthe are coming from with their criticisms.

I didn't levy any criticism.

I was just letting Yates and Tommy know I've been through this before and not to expect much to come out of it.

[WWWwombat]

Some things could probably be a bit more newbie friendly, but we also have the benefit of having a pretty helpful community.  The semi-recent trend of mentoring also helps, but I don't like some of the restrictions some mods put on it.

[Nolder]

Mentoring can be cool but I'm not sure how serious some people take it.