Freemasons vs. Illuminati - Day One

[Andrej]

Dice for Illuminati imo

 

Fits with him dropping that vote on GF to save Len because he'd want to keep his 'Mason' partner alive.

 

Still thinking lynching Yates first would be better. Dice can be checked in this situation since he's already claimed VT

[Clovdyx]

Assuming team is Len/Dice/Hallia.

 

 

Official Vote Count 3?

 

TG (1/7): Len 

Len (2/7): AJ, TG

Addi (1/7): Dice

Key (1/7): Yates

Des (2/7): Key, Clov

Clov (1/7): Addi

Dice (1/7): Des

 

 

Not Voting (3/12):

Hally, GF, BFG

 

13 hours til night.

 

 

Three-quarters through the phase and you have votes split between TG (I don't even remember the reasoning Lenlo was on him), Addi (Dice was soulreading her as scum and "seeing the same things I saw", even though that clearly wasn't the case) and one not on the board.  

 

Des votes key (moving off of Lenlo). which makes a three-way tie between Len/Key/Des.

 

Hallia makes a comment on how GF's post style has changed.  Second post says she likes Key, doesn't really elaborate on that.  Lenlo chimes in about DM eating a post.  Hallia fence sits the Key/Des fight.  

 

Hallia gut votes GF with about 10 hours to deadline.

 

27 minutes later, Lenlo posts his reads list and votes GF.  Reads are here.  Four way tie between Len/Key/Des/GF.

 

GF votes Key, putting her in the lead at 3 votes.

 

Dice responds to Despot about the "fake scumhunting" accusation and says he really wanted an answer from Addi whether she's scum.  I'm not sure what he expected her to say?  Says he wants to no lynch because he's lost.   (7:52 AM)

 

Dice votes GF (7:55 AM).  Total YOLO vote and he won't be around for deadline (about four hours away).  

 

That vote forces the tie between Key and GF at three.  None of them post again until 11:30 - half hour til deadline - when Hallia asks GF if there's any reason she shouldn't be voting him.  I can kind of see that happening as town since her reasoning wasn't exactly well substantiated to begin with, but the timing doesn't look good.  Her post at 287 reads like she's almost sorry for voting him/already knows the outcome.  I like not causing mislynches, too, but if she was that worried, why didn't she try to push him for reads earlier?  Why did she stay the course when two votes followed hers with little backing behind them?

 

 

That doesn't make any sense. Town would want their reads out there before being lynched. Your reticence to do so looks bad :(

 

 

Meanwhile, BFG didn't vote Lenlo at 9:18 - more than an hour after Dice put the third vote on GF.  GF put the nail in Lenlo's coffin right around deadline.  

[Clovdyx]

 

Hmmm it's possible. Could be trying to distance from each other today with their earlier spat.

Hallia votes Dice. Dice votes back.

Plausible.

You think all 3 would pile on GF at EOD as a sort of Hail Mary to save Len though? Why not just vote one of the other wagons?

 

 

Assuming team is Len/Dice/Hallia.

 

 

Official Vote Count 3?

 

TG (1/7): Len 

Len (2/7): AJ, TG

Addi (1/7): Dice

Key (1/7): Yates

Des (2/7): Key, Clov

Clov (1/7): Addi

Dice (1/7): Des

 

 

Not Voting (3/12):

Hally, GF, BFG

 

13 hours til night.

 

 

Three-quarters through the phase and you have votes split between TG (I don't even remember the reasoning Lenlo was on him), Addi (Dice was soulreading her as scum and "seeing the same things I saw", even though that clearly wasn't the case) and one not on the board.  

 

Des votes key (moving off of Lenlo). which makes a three-way tie between Len/Key/Des.

 

Hallia makes a comment on how GF's post style has changed.  Second post says she likes Key, doesn't really elaborate on that.  Lenlo chimes in about DM eating a post.  Hallia fence sits the Key/Des fight.  

 

Hallia gut votes GF with about 10 hours to deadline.

 

27 minutes later, Lenlo posts his reads list and votes GF.  Reads are here.  Four way tie between Len/Key/Des/GF.

 

GF votes Key, putting her in the lead at 3 votes.

 

Dice responds to Despot about the "fake scumhunting" accusation and says he really wanted an answer from Addi whether she's scum.  I'm not sure what he expected her to say?  Says he wants to no lynch because he's lost.   (7:52 AM)

 

Dice votes GF (7:55 AM).  Total YOLO vote and he won't be around for deadline (about four hours away).  

 

That vote forces the tie between Key and GF at three.  None of them post again until 11:30 - half hour til deadline - when Hallia asks GF if there's any reason she shouldn't be voting him.  I can kind of see that happening as town since her reasoning wasn't exactly well substantiated to begin with, but the timing doesn't look good.  Her post at 287 reads like she's almost sorry for voting him/already knows the outcome.  I like not causing mislynches, too, but if she was that worried, why didn't she try to push him for reads earlier?  Why did she stay the course when two votes followed hers with little backing behind them?

 

 

That doesn't make any sense. Town would want their reads out there before being lynched. Your reticence to do so looks bad :(

 

 

Meanwhile, BFG didn't vote Lenlo at 9:18 - more than an hour after Dice put the third vote on GF.  GF put the nail in Lenlo's coffin right around deadline.  

 

Based on this, it really doesn't seem like it would have been a desperation play to save Lenlo, since he wasn't really back on the chopping block until after all three were voting for GF.  Given that Dice was going to miss deadline, and seemingly Lenlo would too, it could have been an effort to give them one last opportunity to look good before EoD?  

[Clovdyx]

Dice for Illuminati imo

 

Fits with him dropping that vote on GF to save Len because he'd want to keep his 'Mason' partner alive.

 

Still thinking lynching Yates first would be better. Dice can be checked in this situation since he's already claimed VT

 

This makes sense on its own, but with context, they played it badly if that's true.  Dice's reads list came at 1:55.  Dice didn't vote GF until six hours later.  Look at Len's reads list.  

[Clovdyx]

 

Dice for Illuminati imo

 

Fits with him dropping that vote on GF to save Len because he'd want to keep his 'Mason' partner alive.

 

Still thinking lynching Yates first would be better. Dice can be checked in this situation since he's already claimed VT

 

This makes sense on its own, but with context, they played it badly if that's true.  Dice's reads list came at 1:55.  Dice didn't vote GF until six hours later.  Look at Len's reads list.  

 

 

Len's.

 

I apparently need sleep.  I'm going to bed.

[BFG]

I'm assuming we still have 24 hours to deadline, but Darthe hasn't actually posted a deadline :/

 

I'll be back this evening with proper thoughts, but quickly

 

@Yates - why were you willing to leave your vote on Key at deadline, when your vote was apparently a joke vote, you hadn't mentioned her on thread at all (that I recall), were advocating a Hallia/Lenlo lynch, yet voted neither?

 

After Lenlo's vote on GF which I pointed out as looking weird, Yates vote on Key is the one that looks weirdest.

[Andrej]

Fwiw I wouldn't invest a ton in the actual time of the votes. Dice lives Down Under so he basically operates on an opposite schedule as most of us.

 

I'm gonna hit the hay too. Looking forward to some new opinions once people have done their catch ups. Would REALLY love more discussion from the Masons.

[Andrej]

Oh, there you are sis

 

Glad to see you.

 

It's goodnight for me but likely good morning for you, so have a nice day.

[BFG]

I have to get to work, but keep in mind for vote analysis that Lenlo was actually looking pretty safe at 2 votes, given my presence on thread the chances of me turning up to vote is actually small, particularly given how hard it is for me to post at work. The only other person vocal about advocating his lynch was Yates, who was ok with his vote on Key.

 

If Dice/Hallia were trying to save Lenlo all they'd have needed to do os vote Key, unless Key was also on the team.

 

 

Additionally my understanding of the game seems different to everyone else... AJ keeps going on about how lynching illuminati was 'huge', yet imo lynching the goon would have been even better as it means the seer could catch both remaining mafia, at the moment they can catch one and can't 'clear' anybody.

 

 

I still disagree with the claiming tactic, limiting lynchpool is bull, regardless of claiming, we're not lynching someone who claims a 'named role' townie without a counter claim, if there's a counter-claim then we definitely have mafia in one of two. Mass claiming didn't affect that, the lynch pool is actually 6 people regardless of 'naming' the masons or not. Yates/AJ both lose logic points for pushing that idea, AJ claws some back for pointing out the possibility of the seer catching the remaining illuminati, which is the only actual benefit I can see (but imo doesn't counter removing the possibility of mafia shooting vanilla and limiting their hiding places), but then might lose some again for suggesting seer claims non mason views before goon is dead, as until goon is dead seer can't clear anyone.

[BFG]

Oh, there you are sis

 

Glad to see you.

 

It's goodnight for me but likely good morning for you, so have a nice day.

Hi :)

 

Sleep well

[dicetosser1]

FTR Dice - you should start formatting your votes correctly or I think they'll be missed.

 

[ v ] [ /v ] That's all you need plus whoever you're voting in the middle.

 

Clov - you were voting Key at EOD. That suggests to me she was pretty firmly in your bottom 3

 

I was told by Darthe to do it as :vote whoever so it should work

[Darthe]

Hey qll I know this is sudden but could someone fill in VCs for me this phase? I have a 12 hour shift today, 7 tomorrow and HW this weekend which was expected but as of today I also suddenly have to move this weekend.

 

Sorry about the trouble Id just be too sporadic.

[Andrej]

BFG I think you're misunderstanding the Seer's power. Their results will only come as Mason or not Mason, so lynching the goon first isn't really that good because then the Mafia could simply claim along with the other Masons and all the Seer could do was verify.

 

In this situation, lynching one of their Illuminati first has now put them in the situation that one of them is forced to lie and therefore can be caught.

 

As far as the Seer revealing NM views this obviously comes with a grain of salt but it would increase the chances of finding the last illuminati during the Day. The Seer's only purpose now is finding the Mason result within the group who claimed to be not Masons. I'm not suggesting those viewed as non Mason are hard clear but they are at the very least confirmed to not be Illuminati

[Andrej]

Darthe I'll keep up with them as I can.

 

Is DL tonight?

[Yates]

I'll be honest.  I'm tinfoiling on Yates pretty hard right now.  After the conviction he showed last game to proving AJ's read on TG wrong, along with his huge ISOs, I didn't have too much trouble clearing him as town later on (not so much early).  I don't feel he's really brought the same effort this game.

You realize I was TG's Mason partner last game, right?

[Yates]

1. You realize advocating for Len to be lynched isn't really that clearing, right?

 

2. Especially when your vote stayed parked on Key the majority of D1 for seemingly a joke where you just bolded a bunch of words in her post.

1. Sure. I get that. I think Clov's post regarding potential Yates motives above does a pretty good job of expanding on what I was summarizing there.

 

2. How bad will that vote park on Key look when she flips scum?

2b. As I already mentioned in my post to Key, my reads were evolving as others were contributing. I wasn't thrilled with how Key was handling the thread hence "I'm comfortable leaving my vote here."

[Yates]

I'm also getting the vibe you're hanging back this game which I don't like at all. You seem more focused on claims and talking about theory than actually interrogating people.

Really? I get tired of talking to the same two people. That's not slanking. That's sitting back and waiting for claims to see what makes sense. I've said this before and I'll say it again; I'm an analytical player. You guys can play on gut and intuition but that's not my MO. I would like the last three to at least hard confirm their roles because I think everyone should be on record.

 

I'll play from there.

[Yates]

I like all three of those wagons.

 

Hallia looks poopoo for still voting Addi who should be more or less a vetted Mason just based on numbers. No progression there although she suspects several people.

You know how I like to gambit? What if I'm Des's mason buddy and I'm trying to trick one of the remaining three into claiming mason?

 

Point being, there's no reason to think the three remaining unclaimed are all masons until they have hard committed to the claim.

[Yates]

I still disagree with the claiming tactic, limiting lynchpool is bull, regardless of claiming, we're not lynching someone who claims a 'named role' townie without a counter claim, if there's a counter-claim then we definitely have mafia in one of two.

Okay.

 

I fakeclaim Mason.

 

Now what, BFG?

[Darthe]

Im extending DL 24 hours to compensate for what I assume will be my absence.

[Tyler Glembo]

 [v] hally[/v] 

 

Clov has cased Hally pretty well already, so I'm not going to repeat ad nauseum, but cliff notes are that Hally has had 0 original thoughts, looks like she is townreading everyone which doesn't speak well of her mindset (Clov mentioned her being apologetic to GF as town while voting him), the D1 VCA.  And then the sudden push back on AJ (post #498 is lynchworthy alone with buzzwords and no thought to back it up at all). 

 

Dice is second on my list given the so called reasoning on Hally and Clov scumteam is gross, especially given D1 events.  It shows a severe lack of game reading.

 

AJ, BFG, Clov #lockclear club. 

 

My only tinfoil is Yates as he feigned some ignorance regarding dice, which I've seen Yates do before as scum.  If there is going to be a deep wolf this game I'd guess him.

[Tyler Glembo]

You know how I like to gambit? 

 

I thought you just liked crappy traps. 

 

OH SNAP!!!!  I keed, I keed.

[Yates]

My only tinfoil is Yates as he feigned some ignorance regarding dice, which I've seen Yates do before as scum.  If there is going to be a deep wolf this game I'd guess him.

There's a difference between "feigning ignorance" and having no idea what someone is talking about. Did you see his supposed "crumb" that I should have picked up? And who "crumbs" a VT claim? Especially in a game full of nothing but VT's and masons? Not to mention fake claiming mason without a partner to back up your claim would be suicide. Makes. No. Sense.

[Tyler Glembo]

 

My only tinfoil is Yates as he feigned some ignorance regarding dice, which I've seen Yates do before as scum.  If there is going to be a deep wolf this game I'd guess him.

There's a difference between "feigning ignorance" and having no idea what someone is talking about. Did you see his supposed "crumb" that I should have picked up? And who "crumbs" a VT claim? Especially in a game full of nothing but VT's and masons? Not to mention fake claiming mason without a partner to back up your claim would be suicide. Makes. No. Sense.

 

 

I wouldn't have expected you to pick up the crumb with clarity ahead of time, but after the fact when it was explained you still acted confused.

[Yates]

...after the fact when it was explained you still acted confused.

Because I was [am?] confused. Don't understand the point of that exercise.