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DRAGONMOUNT

 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Sherlock Holmes Role Madness Mafia Town wins

Basel Gill

By Basel Gill
in The Black Tower

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Lenlo Spam Master

Lenlo

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2. Len is Mafia - Trying way to hard to put off making that list, trying to get down EXACTLY what can't be confirmed.
 

 

What? Im not putting off anything I said id make it later tonight because I had some plans with friends. Guess what time it is Tsuki? Later tonight. And also it was a legitimate question. Can an LD get a null read if someone is town and you say someone else is town with a post? Cause logically that player would have no way of knowing 100% the other player is scum. If the LD didnt get a null, they got a real true/false answer then it can virtually be used as a cop role.

 

 
1. Thrax(getting replaced) is Mafia - I cant remember the exact reason and need to do a reread for that but I have him down in notes as scum.
2. Len is Town, cause im me.
4. Dawn/NotBob is Town - Null.
5. Tina is Town - Town
6. Turin is Town - Begrudgingly town, though I really do detest the way hes been playing this game. Its so annoying to have what looks like almost unconditional def of someone and its really annoying to play against cause you cant talk someone out of something like this.
7. Despo is Town. - Scum hunting well, putting in work. Like it.
8. Hallia is Town - Actually null, but for the purposes of this list ill put her town.
9. Chae is Mafia - Def of Thane, subsequent posts and horrible cases all lead me to her being scum
10. Ithi is town - Again, begrudgingly town. I just dont like how Turin and Ithi play together, its almost always 2v1 against them regardless of alignment in the game.
11. Thane is Mafia - Dudes all over the place, that self vote was horrendous and imo he pretty much disappeared once Ithi and Mynd got into it, saving his bum
12. Tsukibana is Town - Town
14. Charis/BFG is Town - I liked the VT claim and the way shes been playing.
15. Pral is Town - Sadly, though I wish he was mafia. He always shoots me in games. :/
16. CSarmi is Town - Actually Null, but again for the list. I dont like recent play but the miller claim.. half and half.
 
[v] Chae[/v]
Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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Turins eager to waste a day - scummy

 

Also, why is he so sure there is a LD, maybe he's on scum team with a silver tongue?

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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Exactly. But if you are mafia and she is your teammate then you KNOW her alignment. It is for this reason it is best to get everyone to give a solid list ASAP. then thru POE and traditional mafia finding techniques the mafia have nowhere to hide. Therefore if you are town you want to make and send in your proper list ASAP to pressure the mafia into doing so also.

 

Those that refuse, are drawing suspicion to themselves. But who knows? there may not even be a LD in the game. Mafia probably have a better idea about that than town tho. Besides townies have nothing to fear. 

 

Cause they are town.

Bolded for repetition. Again Len. If player A is mafia and they are on a team with player B. A LD can take the statement  "Player B is town." and get a False report since player A KNOWS that player B is mafia. Yes it can be used as a cop role and has in several games. That was the entire point of the original use of having everyone say "I am town.". 

 

Your argument about the use of the role sounds like you don't like town having access to more powerful investigative roles. 

2. Len is Mafia - Trying way to hard to put off making that list, trying to get down EXACTLY what can't be confirmed.

What? Im not putting off anything I said id make it later tonight because I had some plans with friends. Guess what time it is Tsuki? Later tonight. And also it was a legitimate question. Can an LD get a null read if someone is town and you say someone else is town with a post? Cause logically that player would have no way of knowing 100% the other player is scum. If the LD didnt get a null, they got a real true/false answer then it can virtually be used as a cop role.

 

 
1. Thrax(getting replaced) is Mafia - I cant remember the exact reason and need to do a reread for that but I have him down in notes as scum.
2. Len is Town, cause im me.
4. Dawn/NotBob is Town - Null.
5. Tina is Town - Town
6. Turin is Town - Begrudgingly town, though I really do detest the way hes been playing this game. Its so annoying to have what looks like almost unconditional def of someone and its really annoying to play against cause you cant talk someone out of something like this.
7. Despo is Town. - Scum hunting well, putting in work. Like it.
8. Hallia is Town - Actually null, but for the purposes of this list ill put her town.
9. Chae is Mafia - Def of Thane, subsequent posts and horrible cases all lead me to her being scum
10. Ithi is town - Again, begrudgingly town. I just dont like how Turin and Ithi play together, its almost always 2v1 against them regardless of alignment in the game.
11. Thane is Mafia - Dudes all over the place, that self vote was horrendous and imo he pretty much disappeared once Ithi and Mynd got into it, saving his bum
12. Tsukibana is Town - Town
14. Charis/BFG is Town - I liked the VT claim and the way shes been playing.
15. Pral is Town - Sadly, though I wish he was mafia. He always shoots me in games. :/
16. CSarmi is Town - Actually Null, but again for the list. I dont like recent play but the miller claim.. half and half.

 

I have some questions and comments about some of your reads. If nothing noted nothing to say about them.

1. Xthrax/Dice 2.0: I'm not sure why but it is odd to me that more than one person had X as mafia but with unknown reasons. Even I did, but I was the first I think. 

5. Tina: Can you expound on why you think she is town?

7. Despo: You say he is putting in work. I think he would say he has been less than burning the midnight oil due to bad nights at work and lots of celebrating his Spurs winning the title. I do currently have him as town tho. I take it you have him as strongly town?

8. Hallia: disagree. What puts her in the null category for you?

11. Thane: there are some issues with Thane and his posts but I don't think that you can say he disappeared after Ithi and Mynd took over. He pretty much left before that. Could still be mafia but I don't think he is ready to fake that emo reaction yet. I actually would have been more suspicious of him if he had come back once he was in the clear.  

12. Tsuki: again if you could expound.

14. Pral: odd comment. I am assuming there is a joke reason for it but I don't have the context. 

15. Csarmi: so if he hadn't already claimed Miller would you have him as mafia? That is how your sentence reads to me. let me know if I am reading that wrong please.

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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 Oh, since it doesn't really matter about characters how about you give us yours now. And your list too please.

 

Repeated for about the fifth time regarding requesting your list. Please stop stalling.  I would like to hear your character name as well please.

 

Turins eager to waste a day - scummy

 

Also, why is he so sure there is a LD, maybe he's on scum team with a silver tongue?

Are you saying that you definitely governor yourself? I doubt you have multiple shots based on what we have seen so far so at the least it means that you use it up and then when we lynch you tomorrow you die. Unless you manage to vet yourself as town by then. If I had a gun I would have shot you last night. lucky you I guess.

 

I am not sure there is an LD in the game. I stated clearly that I am not claiming to be one. Let me ask you this, What does it hurt to make those statements in EVERY SINGLE GAME if you are town? Then a potential LD doesn't have to out themselves and waste nights that could be spent investigating. better for all townies to support their potential powerful investigative role without throwing up a big huff about it. personally, this line of action from you would put you in line as a potential GF working to makes sure that you do get checked once you finally make your list. 

 

Nice try with the maybe he is on mafia team and knows. You said you have me as mafia from yesterday so why are you so hesitant to say I am mafia? Do you not believe it?

 

I think you are pretty much confirmed mafia right now, but by all means continue. 

 

Oh but please put out your list. If you  are town, you have absolutely nothing to fear.

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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1. Thrax Dice 2.0 is town
2. Len is town
3. Mynd Wiggins, Town 1-shot Gladiator, lynched D1
4. Dawn NotBob is town
5. Tina is scum
6. Turin is scum
7. Despo is scum
8. Hally is town governor 
9. Chae is town
10. Ithi is scum
11. Thane is town
12. Tsuki is scum
13. Dice Toby the Dog, Town 2-shot Oracle, killed N1
14. Charis/BFG is town
15. Pral is town
16. Salami is town

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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Thanks. Would you care to give some reasons? 

 

Also still would like to get your character name. Is getting old asking for things over and over. Please either give the name or just say you are refusing to do so.

 

 

 

And that's Grand Turino. As in "get off my lawn."

Lenlo Spam Master

Lenlo

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Exactly. But if you are mafia and she is your teammate then you KNOW her alignment. It is for this reason it is best to get everyone to give a solid list ASAP. then thru POE and traditional mafia finding techniques the mafia have nowhere to hide. Therefore if you are town you want to make and send in your proper list ASAP to pressure the mafia into doing so also.

 

Those that refuse, are drawing suspicion to themselves. But who knows? there may not even be a LD in the game. Mafia probably have a better idea about that than town tho. Besides townies have nothing to fear. 

 

Cause they are town.

Bolded for repetition. Again Len. If player A is mafia and they are on a team with player B. A LD can take the statement  "Player B is town." and get a False report since player A KNOWS that player B is mafia. Yes it can be used as a cop role and has in several games. That was the entire point of the original use of having everyone say "I am town.". 

 

Your argument about the use of the role sounds like you don't like town having access to more powerful investigative roles. 

2. Len is Mafia - Trying way to hard to put off making that list, trying to get down EXACTLY what can't be confirmed.

What? Im not putting off anything I said id make it later tonight because I had some plans with friends. Guess what time it is Tsuki? Later tonight. And also it was a legitimate question. Can an LD get a null read if someone is town and you say someone else is town with a post? Cause logically that player would have no way of knowing 100% the other player is scum. If the LD didnt get a null, they got a real true/false answer then it can virtually be used as a cop role.

 

 
1. Thrax(getting replaced) is Mafia - I cant remember the exact reason and need to do a reread for that but I have him down in notes as scum.
2. Len is Town, cause im me.
4. Dawn/NotBob is Town - Null.
5. Tina is Town - Town
6. Turin is Town - Begrudgingly town, though I really do detest the way hes been playing this game. Its so annoying to have what looks like almost unconditional def of someone and its really annoying to play against cause you cant talk someone out of something like this.
7. Despo is Town. - Scum hunting well, putting in work. Like it.
8. Hallia is Town - Actually null, but for the purposes of this list ill put her town.
9. Chae is Mafia - Def of Thane, subsequent posts and horrible cases all lead me to her being scum
10. Ithi is town - Again, begrudgingly town. I just dont like how Turin and Ithi play together, its almost always 2v1 against them regardless of alignment in the game.
11. Thane is Mafia - Dudes all over the place, that self vote was horrendous and imo he pretty much disappeared once Ithi and Mynd got into it, saving his bum
12. Tsukibana is Town - Town
14. Charis/BFG is Town - I liked the VT claim and the way shes been playing.
15. Pral is Town - Sadly, though I wish he was mafia. He always shoots me in games. :/
16. CSarmi is Town - Actually Null, but again for the list. I dont like recent play but the miller claim.. half and half.

 

I have some questions and comments about some of your reads. If nothing noted nothing to say about them.

1. Xthrax/Dice 2.0: I'm not sure why but it is odd to me that more than one person had X as mafia but with unknown reasons. Even I did, but I was the first I think. 

5. Tina: Can you expound on why you think she is town?

7. Despo: You say he is putting in work. I think he would say he has been less than burning the midnight oil due to bad nights at work and lots of celebrating his Spurs winning the title. I do currently have him as town tho. I take it you have him as strongly town?

8. Hallia: disagree. What puts her in the null category for you?

11. Thane: there are some issues with Thane and his posts but I don't think that you can say he disappeared after Ithi and Mynd took over. He pretty much left before that. Could still be mafia but I don't think he is ready to fake that emo reaction yet. I actually would have been more suspicious of him if he had come back once he was in the clear.  

12. Tsuki: again if you could expound.

14. Pral: odd comment. I am assuming there is a joke reason for it but I don't have the context. 

15. Csarmi: so if he hadn't already claimed Miller would you have him as mafia? That is how your sentence reads to me. let me know if I am reading that wrong please.

 

 

 

First Quote: I know how it works if you use it on scum and you use it on a sentence like that. What im asking is what happens if Person A is town and the LD checks the statement "Person B is town." or "Person B is mafia" what result would they get? Cause Person A has no idea the role of that person, its just a guess. Thats what im asking, I know how it works if you use it on a scum player as they know that person is or is not mafia. Im sorry if that was confusing I may not have made it the clearest question.

 

Second Quote:

1: As I said I plan to go back and reread and find it, I just remember him being one of my top 3 scum reads even before the gladiator match.

5. To quote Tsuki "Shes just on the level.". She hasnt done much imo when there was plenty to get into, but seeing the number of scum reads I currently have and the lightness of her crime I decided to add her to the town pile.

7. No not strongly town, just town.

8. Because Ithi and your's scum reads on her depend on the fact that you believe her to be working with me as scummates. I know I am not scum and that we arnt working together, but her plays havnt been townish to me. Thus she ends up in the null pile. Though her most recent statement is horrendous imo and puts her in the lower half of the null pile.

11. I disagree, faking an emo reaction is pretty elementary to me imo and easily pulled off if someone in the QT is telling you how to do it/who to direct it at. I also disagree if he had shown up once the gladiator started and actually engaged in the discussion then I woulda thought better of him as he would have been activily trying to figure out the game or atleast providing us with more evidence against him.

12. This one is just a feeling. I dont have anything of substance to back it up and so its a relatively weak read.

14. Every game that Pral has been a vig and I have been in with him he ends up shooting me. Sometimes for decent reasons other times for completely random crap. Most of the time he shoots me is when im scum. Im joking about the fact that he has gotten a penchant for shooting me is all.

15. Kinda? The miller claim isnt something I would expect CS to do with his personality but I havnt really liked his recent play. So I guess you could say that yeah, but I feel its abit over simplified.

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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I find it funny you give me trouble for not immediately throwing my char claim out there, but Ithi flat out refused to do it for the longest and that seemed to be no problem.

 

But I'm King Wilhelm of Bohemia

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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6. Turin is Town - Begrudgingly town, though I really do detest the way hes been playing this game. Its so annoying to have what looks like almost unconditional def of someone and its really annoying to play against cause you cant talk someone out of something like this.

 

10. Ithi is town - Again, begrudgingly town. I just dont like how Turin and Ithi play together, its almost always 2v1 against them regardless of alignment in the game.

Len, I think this is something for after the game. If you think we are town then treat each of us accordingly. if you think one or the other or even both are mafia then do the same. 

 

 

We look at the game in a very similar fashion. I think she is a great player and so if I am not convinced she is mafia (and I do figure it out quickly) then she is town and her instincts are to be given the proper weight. Accordingly if someone is making a bad case on her then I am not going to let them try to lynch a strong town player without a fight. Town wins together just like mafia do. Hell, She practically won the ultimate showdown as a treestump. 

 

We don't always agree. She had Thane initially mafia and I had X (I still think X was mafia, sorry Dice) But Mynd made little sense and looked exactly like mafia trying hard to finish off a stalling lynch on the player you described  as  "the new Blackhoof". Mynd's slippery answers pinged immensely. Do you disagree about that?

 

In the mass effect game at end game she was completely convinced Clarthe were the bad guys while I was torn between them and Verb/Des. She was right again. So yes, I will follow unless I have a strong reason to believe she isn't town. Is a conscious decision on my part. And I do hide behind her sometimes when I am mafia. This game I am town tho so just too bad for the mafia. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lenlo Spam Master

Lenlo

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The annoying part is that it looks like a combined front regardless of anything else. I apologize if that was said rudely, it was not my intention. I merely wanted to let you know what was going on with my thought process of the two of you. And atm the expectation I get from you two is if I case one then im going to get lambasted by the other and told how wrong I am in a multitude of ways regardless of the case. Thats the general feel atm imo.

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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I find it funny you give me trouble for not immediately throwing my char claim out there, but Ithi flat out refused to do it for the longest and that seemed to be no problem.

 

But I'm King Wilhelm of Bohemia

 

I didn't think it would be in the town's general interest to have Ithi role claim in that circumstance as I was firmly convinced that Mynd was mafia with a plan. Therefore I saw no reason to have my town read claim unnecessarily.  It appears he actually was misguided town but in that situation logic still is clear that if both are town that the player that has used up their power should be the one to go and the other should not claim as that only helps mafia. .

 

 

So you are the king from that story? how funny. You have Thane down as a town read. Do you find it at all odd that you both have a character from that story. Characters that were in opposition but that you would both be town? I may be reading too much into that. I don't really want to go down that path. I think you are mafia for the manner of your role claim, as well as the inconsistency in your play during the 1v1. 

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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Posted

The annoying part is that it looks like a combined front regardless of anything else. I apologize if that was said rudely, it was not my intention. I merely wanted to let you know what was going on with my thought process of the two of you. And atm the expectation I get from you two is if I case one then im going to get lambasted by the other and told how wrong I am in a multitude of ways regardless of the case. Thats the general feel atm imo.

apology accepted. I don't think you have any malice in your opinion. Again tho on my part I will call someone on making a case on someone I have a strong town read on. Especially if I think the case has holes in it. TBH tho the events of D1 were to me more about seeing something that looked really sketchy on the part of another player.  

 

You have a right to not see it the same way I do.  Can we lynch Hallia now? or should we hope someone will shoot her?  

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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So when I flip town, what then?

 

I would be shocked beyond belief. how about you provide some reasoning for why you have people the way you do?

 

Who do you think should be lynched today?

Lenlo Spam Master

Lenlo

Posted
Posted

 

The annoying part is that it looks like a combined front regardless of anything else. I apologize if that was said rudely, it was not my intention. I merely wanted to let you know what was going on with my thought process of the two of you. And atm the expectation I get from you two is if I case one then im going to get lambasted by the other and told how wrong I am in a multitude of ways regardless of the case. Thats the general feel atm imo.

apology accepted. I don't think you have any malice in your opinion. Again tho on my part I will call someone on making a case on someone I have a strong town read on. Especially if I think the case has holes in it. TBH tho the events of D1 were to me more about seeing something that looked really sketchy on the part of another player.  

 

You have a right to not see it the same way I do.  Can we lynch Hallia now? or should we hope someone will shoot her?  

 

Id prefer Chae or Thane tbh, but im open to seeing how the day goes.

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

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Vote count:

 

Mynd (9): Ithi, Turin, Chae, Pral, dice, Len, 鲍勃不是我的名字, Tina

Ithi (2): Mynd, Hallia

 

Not Voting (6): Thrax, Tsuki, Despo, Thane, BFG, Csarmi

 

 

that was the hammer.

 

it is now twilight.

 

Just from the final vote count, I'm confident Tina is scum.  I go back and forth on Chae.

 

What do you think of Tina's hammer with nothing else really coming with it?

Turin Turambar Spam Master

Turin Turambar

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Actually Csarmi was the hammer vote. But Tina's vote was somewhat suspicious. I still need to look at some of the people and how they voted and changed opinions during the thunderdome. 

hazelkrs1 Spam Master

hazelkrs1

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Turins eager to waste a day - scummy

 

Also, why is he so sure there is a LD, maybe he's on scum team with a silver tongue?

 

 

So when I flip town, what then?

 

 

so, yeah. I have read that people requested i return to the game. I have asked the mod if it was ok, and here i am.

 

Now that things in the thread have calmed done, and myself too, here's a few thoughts:

 

Thunderdome.... wow... i followed through notification and ... wow... Mynd flipped town. I am surprised. I voted him before i self-voted. I do strongly believe that Ithi is town. I still have a little doubt about Turin being town with Ithi, because they seemingly always play like this together and it could well be a ruse for scumTurin to hide behind.

 

i am quite curious to see what will happen this night. I'll try to be around (when not at work, then i will only read notifications) and will try to get my act together and help town win this game.

 

My apologies to all i might have offended or disappointed.

 

game on

 

 

*makes some funeral arrangements*

 

<<

 

>>

 

 

just in case....

 

I'm just gonna leave these all here and then SMH @ ANY townie who doesn't have these two as CONFIRMED right now. These two are so unbelievably out in the open scum it's insane.

 

Hallia first taunts Turin and says he'd be wasting a day- since she was sorta confirmed as a Governor (obv a scum one, but I digress)- so she's obviously implying she would use her shot to save herself. She then taunts him with "And what if I flip town eh?".... which makes no sense since she already made it clear she would not be letting herself get lynched today. She's not scumhunting, she's taunting. She thought coming forth and white knighting Ithi and Mynd yesterday would somehow confirm her as town, and everything she has done since is really solely about HER. All her reads are OMGUS pretty much. She acts like she's somehow confirmed as town, multiple times. This just does not jive with Hallia's town play AT ALL.

 

Then there's Thane. Just look at his reaction to Mynd's flip. Seriously. Actually screw it I'll quote it again:

 

 

 

Thunderdome... wow... I followed through notification and... wow... Mynd flipped town. I am surprised.

 

 

 

This is one of the fakest reactions I have ever seen before IN MAH LIFE.

 

It gets better. Thane ACTUALLY acts like there's a chance he could be NK'ed. It's actually difficult to even type atm, my incredulity is so hard to contain. Thane was the scummiest person period ITT yesterday; it would be the derpiest scum team ever to kill such an easy lynch target (were he actually town) ESPECIALLY after he claimed VT (awkwardly, in case anyone's forgotten). If BFG was scum that CC'ed a VT claim to get lynchbait lynched (which makes no sense), it would then draw tons of suspicion her way once he flipped. And assuming that BFG is town (which I believe, generally on the way she claimed), killing Thane the VT (Ha!) to set up another townie would look way too obvious.

 

So yeah, acting like he was possibly a NK candidate there.... just add it to the serious pile against him. It literally befuddles me that he has no votes yet today.

 

That was attempt at WIFOM without realizing I'd already said how many shots I had.  

 

 

Reasons Hallia can't be mafia #342

 

Moar of Hallia acting like she's confirmed town

 

:rolleyes:

 

7. Despo is Town. He never trusts me when he is Town.

 

This jumped out at me with all the lists I've seen (yeah, I tend to focus on people's read of myself in these lists, so sue me)-

 

Tsuki, I've had you as town most, if not all game. Where did you get that I didn't trust you? Can you explain this please?

 

 

 

Your mafia reads coincide with mine, Des, but I'm mafia? That makes no sense.

Did you actually give a full set of reads? I must have missed it.
No, still on mah mobile at work, but I did have Thane AND Tina listed as scum reads.

 

Meh, if they kill me fine, I'll flip town and I'll be validated.

 

If not I still have my shots

 

 

This is something else that made me LAWL. Hallia says she has Thane as a scumread here.... yet in her reads list she lists him as town.

 

:laugh:

 

1. Thrax Dice 2.0 is town

2. Len is town

3. Mynd Wiggins, Town 1-shot Gladiator, lynched D1

4. Dawn NotBob is town

5. Tina is scum

6. Turin is scum

7. Despo is scum

8. Hally is town governor 

9. Chae is town

10. Ithi is scum

11. Thane is town

12. Tsuki is scum

13. Dice Toby the Dog, Town 2-shot Oracle, killed N1

14. Charis/BFG is town

15. Pral is town

16. Salami is town

 

Be moar obvious teammates plz?

 

:tongue:

 

This list was also turrible btw. No explanation given behind any of her reads, and in fact the only scumread I actually agree with is Tina... and even then I'm actually doubting Tina is mafia now after seeing Hallia's "reasoning" for thinking Tina scum. She bandwagoned my read on Tina, yet says she knows Tina is scum because of her hammer vote on Mynd... even tho Tina WASN'T the hammer on Mynd, and even so not much stands out about the vote- Mynd already looked like the clear choice to lynch at that point. Hallia doesn't mention Tina's fence-sitting, doesn't really give any other explanation besides Tina not saying much with her vote (which is ignoring umpteen other people who didn't justify their vote very well). Reeks of fake scumhunting to me, and again makes me feel slightly better about Tina.

 

Gonna make a new post for other thoughts, this one's getting a bit convoluted. STAY WITH ME PEOPLE!

hazelkrs1 Spam Master

hazelkrs1

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Posted

One thing Hallia IS correct about is that trying to lynch her today would be a sort of waste. It would use up her shot, sure, but town wouldn't really gain much at all. We'd get more potential info from NA's, that's about it. Some delayed info for train analysis, but there's no guarantee people alive later on would even go through and do serious vote analysis. In the meantime, her team would get to kill another townie, who would likely have some juicy role that could help town, and town would have to wait longer to get her flip... just not a very optimal situation. Imo, the best way to handle her is let a vig shoot her. If we have no vig, we can settle that lynch down the road (obviously before endgame, cause then she could save herself ftw, we don't want that). For now, I think we go for both the best chance of killing scum today as well as a lynch that will give us info on others.

 

[v]Thane[/v] is the obvious choice. If yall seriously need me to do a wot on him, I'd be glad to, but I have no doubts whatsoever that he'll flip scum. Great thing is, a scumflip on him would also give us more info on both Hallia (for flipflopping on Thane with literally zero explanation) AND Chae (for obvious reasons), so this would be win-win for town. If he actually ends up flipping town... well then at the very least it removes wifom from the game, gets rid of an apathetic townie (the worst kind), and will still look bad on some of those that were defending him imo, since it could easily have been scum white knighting lynchbait. Also, just wanna say I personally agree with Mynd in that I highly doubt Irene Adler would be VT in this game. I'm not a huge Sherlock buff, but after looking it up again, Rachel Macadams played Irene Adler in the American Sherlock Holmes movie, and yeah, the way they portrayed her, I see her as much more likely having some kind of scummy role or power town role, NOT a simple VT. I generally don't put much stock in character claims, but in this case I really can't help contain my skepticism. Could be because everything else Thane has done in this game is scummy tho. /shrug

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