[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

 

Having some annoying computer issues this morning - monitor on my desktop is old and dying, and wouldn't turn on at all this morning (at least hasn't in almost 3 hours of waiting for it)... Laptop hasn't been turned on in a couple of months and needed updates and now wants me to reboot like now if not sooner. Made some notes in our Hydra QT so I can reference them from whichever computer (or my phone) later on.

 

Copy/pasting quick hits on the happenings that have stood out to me ... <rest of quote snipped for brevity>

That crazy font....looks a lot like it came from a QT......

I wonder why.

 

Hydra....QTs....two girls/one cup player.  Got it. 

 

Now, please 'splain your other half's floundering. 

 

 

 

Lemme start here.

 

I'mma be Captain Obvoius and tell you I'm not inside Mish's head and we don't discuss everything we post in the QT before we say it.  However, I understand her as a player pretty well, and know a good amount about what her life is like and how it affects her playing. Here's the timeline and how I interpret it.

 

First post: She says she was about to complain about having to catch up on 12 pages but sees that everyone is still joking so she posts a joke pic herself.

 

Second post: About half an hour later - responds to Red's meme about complaining about catching up by noting that it's easier to catch up on 12 pages of jokes than serious play right before bedtime

 

Obviously she's had time to scan through the thread and see if there's any serious gameplay that stands out to her - next post is just a few minutes later.

 

Third post: Picks out something that stands out to her - X's intro post - and votes X.  This reads to me like an attempt to find something to start serious gameplay - I'mma go on a little sidetrack here about gamestarter actions, because I've done a lot of thinking about the subject.

 

My thought is that there are basically two methods people use to try to kickstart a game into serious mode.  First is doing something obvious - maybe slightly scummy or even overtly scummy - to draw attention to yourself (i.e. vote someone with no reasoning, claim vanilla town with no provocation, or even claim mafia out of the blue).  You get reactions, you probably get voted, you take note of reactions and probably find something worthwhile to build a train on in the process, and the game moves on.   I see a lot of this kind of action from Darthe, occasionally Wombat, and in this game's example, Yates.

 

Second gamestarter type is the Mountain -> Molehill type, where you nitpick all the fluff posts to find something, usually incredibly minor, as a reason to FOS, vote, or full-on case someone.  You watch for people bandwagoning or building on that case, you watch for people defending that person, and you probably end up abandoning that original case because it was truly nonsense in the first place, but by that point it's generated decent discussion.  Mynd and Red are pretty much masters of this... Mish's vote on X is a smaller example of such an attempt IMO, and didn't get a lot of traction because it was followed up pretty much right away by Mynd and Red using Mish's vote as a much more effective gamestarter.

 

Being on the receiving end of one of those mountain/molehill cases is frustrating as hell, if ya didn't know.  As I said, I've spent a lot of time contemplating kickstart behavior and it's pretty much gotten me to the point where I don't sweat it because I see where they're going with it, but Mynd and Red haven't played much in a good long time (and nobody else does it quite to their extent) and Mish tends to let her frustration bleed into the game more easily.

 

Which is obvious in her fourth post:  She comes in, makes 3 posts, and is suddenly being grilled about her choice of wording.  She tries to lay out the sequence of events.  She's tired and starting to get annoyed. 

 

Fifth post is nearly an hour and a half after she popped in saying she was getting ready to go to bed, and the frustration is obvious.  Sometimes all you can do is roll your eyes.  

 

Sixth post is now two hours after the first statement of her intention to catch up on the thread before she goes to bed, and she's ready to let it go and call it a night, but not before Mynd appears to suggest that she was somehow dishonest in her representation of her intentions to go to bed.   At this point in the QT, I mention how I'm amused that I've been posting and joking around the whole time without anyone saying a word, but she makes one post and suddenly she has Mynd and Red grilling her. She starts thinking that maybe people have forgotten that we share a slot, so she decides if people are still giving her a hard time when she gets up in the morning, she'll try to remind them.  I give her a little pep talk about the Red/Mynd game starter meta.

 

Next post after wake-up time: she's a bit disappointed at the amount of off-topic fluff that was continuing after a few solid game kickstarters.  Notes she's suspicious at Despo being off meta.  Explains to Wombat what she meant by her reason for the Xthrax vote.  Asks Cloud to outline exactly how she changed her story because it's a very vague accusation.  Decides that since people are still pressuring her for little to no reason and nobody seems to find me suspicious, it's time to remind them that we're both part of the same hydra.

 

After people clarify that they haven't said anything about me because I've been a slacker and haven't said anything game related yet, she reiterates her point and tries to let it drop.

 

Comes back with a serious response to several points Tommy made attempting to address his questions, including why she hadn't followed up on her original vote of Xthrax, why she expected people to take my play into account in judging our slot, her reads on Dawn, Mynd, Red, and expanding on her comment about Despo being off meta.

 

Last post in response to another Tommy question confirming her reads on Red and Mynd.

 

After this she advised me in the QT she was going to step away from the game because of an outside issue that put her in a bad mood and she didn't want to let it affect the game. There's this kind of spiral that happens when an emotional person lets emotion bleed into a game where people pounce on it and call it scummy, which just makes you more emotional.  Nobody needs that kind of thing to sidetrack the game. I'm guessing she's sleeping now and we'll probably hear from her again in a few hours.

 

My jumping in this morning with my list of reads wasn't timed and calculated as damage control.  As I said before, I'm not all that wound up about the possibility of being lynched today.  We win with town whether or not we live through day 1, and if our death helps in any way to solve the game, that's worth it.  My intent is to get my thoughts out there to help with the game solving bit, regardless.  If Mynd hadn't specifically asked for it, I wouldn't have spent any time at all defending the other half of my slot. 

 

I'd actually planned to post my thoughts with quotes and whatnot last night, well before people started calling me out as not contributing anything game related, but just got too exhausted to form coherent thoughts so I figured I'd get up early and do it today.  My computer monitor dying a slow painful death, plus my laptop requiring updates for my antivirus, Java, and Windows slowed me down to where I couldn't put in the time I intended so I threw a partial list of mostly gut impressions into the QT so I could reference it and update it later, then copy/pasted it here.

 

Now, it's going on midnight and if I was smart I'd be going to bed, but I promised I'd expand on my quick and dirty reads, so I'll do that a bit before I collapse.

 

 

 

I agree with your posts about Mish's till her 4th post. What Mynd did in her second post was jumpstarting. He said mafia tend to over explain everything, but basically to me was just bait. And in my opinion she bit. That is what she did in her next post-what he was talking about-over explaining. I spoke about this in my last post. IMO mafia feel that everything they do is suspicious. Because of this they are always looking over  their shoulders. So with the least bit of pressure they over explain. 

From this Mynd applied a little more pressure, Red joined in, Wombat asked her. 

 

The next is with frustration-I can understand because I've been on the recieveing end of it too. But as a result she got too twitchy. Too suspicious.

 

When she tries to point to you, it definetely doesn't achieve the result you said at least for me. All what it looked for me is that she was trying to redirect the pressure from her. Suspicious again.

 

The next post too I have addressed, why it doesn't click.

 

Now your post like Tommy said seems townie-trying to prove that she was innocent. It doesn't look that way at all for her from my perspective. I also disagree with your reads about Desbat like I said and hinging Red and Dawn on that is not right.

 

Mish doesn't click right in any way at all and your reads seem very vague to me. 

 

I will look at Red after a bite to eat. But for now

 

##Vote Mishtress

 

 

I think there's a bit of pro-Mynd sentiment here as well. This is about 20 pages prior to the other quotes.

[Darthe]

 

Lenlo, regardless of your alignment you're my favorite

 

Besides AJ

 

And Tommy and Des

 

And our hydraprom dates

 

Obviously Clovdyx is my soulmate so he's untouchable

 

Pretty sure he tried to buy me recently.  

[Tommyrod]

takes recent advice

 

##Corey!

 

 

yes darthe i know   rolls eyes    now that the memefest is over i will play too.

 

 

so far i am reading

 

cory/aj town

 

tommy town (thats unusual)

 

leaning town on dawn

 

question about hydras. Can one head be mafia and one head town?

 

 

only thing stopping me voting Red is her claim and what i found about the character when i googled it.

 

Not like Mish's "why arnt people looking at Tress thing" but if she was mafia     and cant be a lone mafia head   then it makes no sense to point out tress like that

 

 

@Dawn  cause its what i believe based on having seen you in a few games now. Its called Meta. This behaviour has been fairly consistant for you so far. you were different in the witches game which is why u got caught fast.

 

Also those are ALL up for constant evaluation.if i catch a tommy mafia sign i will be straight on him for example.

 

 

 

AORN I think Red > Dawn >> Mish

 

I havent seen this one before?  wanna explain tommy?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm SmallJon Umber and i'm a bodygaurd.

Well we have no one for you to BG for and if we let you go and you're legit you'll most likely be dead tonight anyway.

I think I'd rather lynch you and test the claim than let you walk. Besides, I think it's BS anyway.

You've been flailing ever since Tom got on your case.

 

Keeping my vote where it is.

 

 

 

 

nol  plz explain the bolded.

 

 

 

sorry been focusing on another  game and have been spending long weekend time with my daughter.  Yes i have been slack.

 

am on page 52 as i catchup

 

so far

 

leaning Town on 

 

Red   theres her claim her lynch built quickly and i think she was a victim of disagreeing with the Alliance.

 

Mynd   seems to be scumhunting. Has asked legitimate questions.  Am wondering why Des wont answer a question about his reads on the hydra. how is that any different then asking for reads on a player in general? 

 

 

leaning mafia on

 

AJ/Cory.  AJ is the main reason for this. I am finding him scummy. Am willing to watch and revise opinion if needed.

 

lenlo    this is a very light lean   there is something there thats bugging me but i cant put my finger on it. like theres something i cant quite see out the corner of my eye.

 

Believe are Mafia

 

Nol.  I have had him as mafia since his comment about preferring to lynch red then let scum walk after her claim. Struck me hard and strong that he was mafia. Has done no real game play since. Will vote come morning

 

 

 

RE The Alliance. 

 

ie Cory/tommy/des with new addition AJ

 

The alliance is in full swing this game. Cory has explained before that they kinda auto clear each other D1 then start watching for tell. (thats how i interpreted his explanation). That VERY much seems to be what has happened here. Mynd and Red have disagreed with them and they have closed ranks and ganged up on them. This annoys me. I dont like having an alliance within the game. I have seen Des get blinded by his bromance before. 

 

 

that'll do for this post

 

 

oh and im gonna need to go back and look at Amega.  he did something i really didnt like but have forgotten what it was

I was looking at the post count and noticed Dice has a whopping 17 posts, or 0.79% of the total posts in the thread. Here are the first 7. Next 10 coming up.

[Andrej]

Yeah - you know what, I think we're all on the same page here. (mostly)

 

Mynd flips opens up a lot of things for me and hopefully others.

 

##vote Mynd

[Tommyrod]

notice i forgot to un vote

 

##unvote

 

 

was just coming back to say that was a stuff up lol. Im still catching up, read something cory said about my vote still being on and realized i never voted.  totally forgot it was night lol

 

 

 

 

....ooops???  

 

 

@ des  those were my thoughts on the fly during a 70 page catch up.

 

you want unambiguous?   for once i truly think you are town.....must be wombats influence....

 

 

 

Scumhunting is not about "ISOLATING A RANDOM GROUP OF PLAYERS"

 

That's just NARROWING YOUR SCOPE REASONLESSLY

 

it can also be called focusing. It may work for some people.

 

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

 

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

Right; they're no different than other players. Mynd has been arguing that they are more dangerous than a non-hydra player and using that as a reason to focus on them. It's factually incorrect, but has become a huge talking point because Mynd keeps bringing it up as if it's a really good strategy.

 

 

 

Blue   but they are a little. they have a QT and can work together to plot and achieve an end. that does make them a little different just like it does masons. Ordinary town players don't have somewhere to go and bounce ideas off someone or strategize except the thread.

 

 

 

I, like len was thinking that you should have kept some of that original info back Yates but now that you explain it, it does make sense.

 

 

Tina i am hurt. Did you forget I was in the game? Even after quoting something with my quote in it??

 

 

Krak i have never played with Hydras. Have no idea if, like lovers they can be one of each faction. At the time i said that I was finding AJ scummy hence the question

 

 

@Dawn  by all means answer Cory but please dont let that force you to roleclaim. Use your judgement but DO give us your thoughts of people.

 

 

Tina

 

im not advocating focusing solely on hydras but i dont see why everyone is against casing them. the most vociferous against it have been people in hydras, yet if they are town they shouldnt have a problem with being looked at and more info gained.

 

I think there is some logic to mynds argument i just disagree with looking only at them

 

 

20 pages per night?? What you wanna make me improve my speed reading even more??  im already at 1400 for crying out loud!  

 

ok so im on 104 and wanted to get some stuff out before i forget and before i start working and get busy

 

 

It's kinda boring when I get cleared by anyone and everyone.

 

I have no opinion of Dice. Let it be known.

 

That means he's probably >rand to be scum if I can't remember his posting. Let it be known.

 

 

that means you are >>>rand to be wrong.

 

 

 

 

Jotting them in our hydra qt, silly Yates. We work together on all things

 

Sometimes I don't think people get we are a hydra.

 

Sometimes people don't get vocabulary jokes.

 

"Jot - To write down briefly or hastily."

 

 Jots = Jak of the Shadows. A thread in the Band of the Red Hand where we write the Band type songs/poems.

 

 

Now business.

 

Megaloud.  Will be quite happy to vote these two. Havent had a chance to find what it was that stuck out to me about amega way back in my catchup but Cloud is screaming mafia at me today.

 

Jack. I think Jack is town but I am concerned anout his post where he calls Cloud and YATES deep cover wolfs. Yates is probably the most universially accepted town in this game atm.

 

quick note at red  my unvote was in the middle of a 70 page catchup. gimme a break.

 

running out of  time  will try and catch up and post more thoughts later but if it was like yesterday that may be wishful thinking

 

There's very little here. He supports Mynd hydra theory, thinks CorJay is town, and MegaLoud is scum.

 

Cool beans.

 

His post today was to shut down any discussion about him possibly being scum. Add him to the vig rand, IMO.

[Myndrunner]

Hey there scumbags and townies.  I needed to take a break and just clear my head, but I'm back...at least for the time being until someone drops the hammer apparently.

 

I have to apologize for not keeping up with the game like I should have and trying to fake it.  I don't have the free time that I used to anymore plus, as much as it pains me, I'm out of practice.  Still, no excuse for an improper casing of the game.  I caution you, though, that the scum are doing a great job leading this lynch, but their arrogance will end up getting the best of them.  

 

Now then, if I am lynched I will flip town.  I am Edmure Tully, the pride of the Tully family!   Yes, indeed...quite fitting.  I am vanilla town.

 

Perhaps it would help the town to lynch me, but what info would come from my lynch?  What understanding would you gain?  Some might argue that it would help understand Red, but really?  Just because I don't think she is scum?

 

I find it rather interesting that in this game, there is a small clique that berates and essentially bullies others into voting their way.  Anyone who disagrees must be scum or a terrible game player.  Then, they lead a lynch and push for it and belittle their gameplay so that if/when they flip town, they can blame it on the person's terrible gameplay. 

 

I'm not complaining, that's kinda how a good mafia team works.  But lets consider my lynch and its advantages...

 

First, why am I being lynched?  Here are the reasons as far as I can see:

 

1) suggesting we focus on hydras.  Really? That is the reason?

 

2)  Improper casing.  Fine. Guilty as charged.  But is that the sign of a mafia player? or simply a player who messed up?

 

3)  Defending Red?  I don't believe she is scum. 

 

4) Lame jokes?  Ok fine.  Hang me then.

 

Sure, I've played a bad game this round, but that has nothing to do with alignment.  Who is working with me then? 

[Cory Caboose]

YOLO

 

HOLDS BREATH

[Tommyrod]

The players with fewer posts than Mish, the D1 lynch:

 

Misheru 22 Krakalakachkn 18 dicetosser1 17 Kathleen 8 Zanube 5

 

[Cory Caboose]

Mynd we just hammered you

 

So that's a thing that happened

[Tommyrod]

Did Mynd just get hammered?

[Tommyrod]

I approve of this message.

[Tommyrod]

Zanube has 0.23% of the total posts. Cool story bro.

[Cory Caboose]

Throw Tommy's clubs into the river

[Lenlo]

Throw Tommy's clubs into the river

Move West

West

North

Enter Cave

?

[Myndrunner]

Ah yes, so nevermind....the noose is down.

 

Now then, townies please look at the clique that has led this game by the nose.  There you will find your mafia.

 

@Darthe - great game, too bad I couldn't make it past D2. 

 

Oh and one other thing....>ACK!

[Tommyrod]

Throw Tommy's clubs into the river

Leave me alone

[Cory Caboose]

Lenlo during Day 1 I asked you to discuss a townie post by Nolder and a scummy post by Nolder but you didn't

 

sup with that

[Lenlo]

Lenlo during Day 1 I asked you to discuss a townie post by Nolder and a scummy post by Nolder but you didn't

 

sup with that

I forgot?

 

[Cory Caboose]

 

Throw Tommy's clubs into the river

Leave me alone

 

 

 

[Tommyrod]

IT'S NOT FUNNY

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

 

actually am sorry

[Cory Caboose]

hurry up Darthe

[Hallia]

I'm going to say, gun to my head: Scum.

 

 

 

<3 Hydrapromdate

 

#corsagesforall

[Tommyrod]

[Andrej]