[Advanced/Experimental] Mass Effect I - Hydra Game - Game Over

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:58 AM, Despothera said:

Times like these are when I wish I could be more concise. A lot more I want to point out/respond to but I have to get my game going first (almost forgot about it! )

 

Doubt I'll get it up in time to come back here and post anything, if I don't tho I'll try to do so later on today at home.

 

 

 

I can paraphrase for you.  Here is everything you said in one sentence.

 

"I am Swaggy P and here is a completely BS narrative of events so far that in no way reflects reality"

[Tyler Glembo]

@SwaggyP.  Answer me this.  Given that there is no penalty for not achieving a lynch, do you really think SH would have gotten lynched yesterday if PFG hadn't voted them right before DL like they did?

[Lenlo]

BFGs wot, since I'm on a phone ima just say it without quoting it, is bad. Baaaaaaad. When I get to a computer and am able to actually deal with a wot that size I'll give reasons but just know that I think it's baaaaaaaad.

 

Geez she's turning me into a sheep.

[Turin Turambar]

Worse than Despo's steaming pile of stench?

 

Until someone can give a credible mafia motivation for Pralaya voting straw hats after Cory stalled the train and Despo started two counter trains on townies I have PFG as town.

[Tyler Glembo]

Going into moar detail

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:29 AM, Lenlo said:

 

No see, your forgetting. I staged a coup and RTE is no longer a part of this monarchy.

 

((Again, dunno. I has no control.))

 

 

You gotta tighten that leash on RTE, yo.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:37 AM, BFG said:

 

So 2.5 days to deadline, Clarthe, Haxorx and WiFuM are probably town.

 

I agree they are prob town, but I dont' like your reasoning.  Early D1 votes are easy distancing especially because they so often do not lead to lynches.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 5:39 AM, BFG said:

 

So this is Hallia's first post after the claim. No mention of the claim, but still think she's likely to be cleared by the lynch.
 
So votes ES over SH, despite thinking Sh are mafia, but leaves wriggle room on the claim.
 
 
and now there's no mention of SH as an existing train
 
 
Another post from Krak, no mention of the flipI've read Cloud as town, so we just plain disagree here.
 
 
But now you want them lynched and don't believe their claim? So why were you saying they weren't the best lynch for the day a moment ago?
 
Krak disbelieves BG claim and votes ES.
 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:53 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 1:52 AM, Despothera said:

@BFG: Normally you scream townie to me, even when you're scum.
 
This game, that isn't even close to being the case.
 
Your recap posts aren't giving me much perspective into your actual thoughts, and I find myself disagreeing with a CRAP ton of em. Seriously, you continuously agree or side with someone who was just excessively scummy in that particular post. I could forgive a few examples of this sort of thing, but literally your catchup posts are littered with examples of you taking the exact opposite side I'd expect town!BFG to take here.
 
Not only that, but your partner Pray has been sniping from the sidelines all game.
 
Tell me why you shouldn't be the lynch today.

 
Agree on the BFG scum angle.  She's not appearing as a laser-focused scumhunter who analyzes the intent behind posts.  She seems like she's mailing the scumhunting in a bit.

 

 
Shrugs, I've barely had any time on DM since the game started, should hopefully be more active from now.


At the moment I'm not liking RTL or Yolo. Think WiFuM, Hallia and Clarthe are Town and need to ISO the others.

Lol, that took longer than expected. Will have to finish up tomorrow.

 

 

Agreed that HaXorz is pretty clear.

 

As for the Krak stuff, AJ and I chatted and he has convinced me that Spliff is clear based on tone, how they phrased their responses, organicness, etc.  The fact that they didn't believe the BG claim doesn't make them scum.

 

Also, I left the quote from Swaggy P in your quote because Swaggy P is complaining about meta and other people using it and then is using it against you, which you mildly address.   

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:02 AM, Despothera said:

 

19 in a row baby! Go Spurs Go! Big one tomorrow in OKC, will Spurs get the streak to 20?!?!?!

 

 

Congrats man.  Too bad there aren't 14 games left in the season cuz the Spurs are lookin' like the could be record breakin' this year. 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:07 AM, Despothera said:

BFG mosdef LOCK SCUM

 

Dodges questions and points made against her, and phones in another wot that is obviously missing her normal insight. Just a lazy play by play.

 

In other news, there is literally zero value to be found in any of Turin's posts for the last few pages. I'm doing town a favor and completely disregarding them to lessen the impact of his fail on the game.

/such a nice guy

 

 

So I def wanted to see what would happen if I voted PFG. While I def thought they were scum, J-TAG looked more obviously scummy, but still it was worth it to see the reactions. And whaddya know, all of a sudden J-TAG and PFG are colluding. AJ trying to switch his read on PFG all of a sudden has been funny to watch lol. Brb, wanna show yall something...

 

 

What is funniest here is that the narrative Swaggy P is selling is that PFG and us are scum together.  And we are actively colluding together on thread.  Because scum are super dumb like that.  And then Swaggy P immediately goes on to say that scum aren't dumb when it comes to the ES kill.  Because scum aren't dumb.

 

Swaggy P arguing with Swaggy P yet again.

 

Also, I lol'd at the Turin comment.  Funny way to discredit a case and vote against your team.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:10 AM, Despothera said:

Oh!

 

One other immensely entertaining thing to enjoy recently is AJ and TG having back and forth and "agreeing" with stuff as if they were two different slots or something. LOL!!!

 

 

AJ, I'm glad you ended up rolling scum this game. Few would be so entertaining in their desperation moves as you have been today

 

 

Yeah, cuz if we sat there trading spider man pics back and forth that would just be turrible, wouldn't it.  LOL!!!  Like we were two different slots, how stupid could that be???  /sarcasm

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:17 AM, Despothera said:

Also, thinking that the mafia team would have NKed a Bodyguard directly last night is incredibly low level mafia type thinking. :disappoint: @ Ithi for thinking that that was what happened.

 

Besides the fact that a BG is a nerfed Doc so not really much to worry about

 

Besides the fact that Jack gave some wifom about scum targeting them possibly being bad for them (most smart scum teams would have recognized it as wifom, but still would have just shot elsewhere to be safe)

 

And besides the fact that most people didn't buy the claim, especially after SH's Tracker claim was proven false

 

Jack/Lily were by far the easiest mislynch scum had. The way Jack voted and unvoted after the Tracker claim made them look AWFUL, and most people had them as high scum reads. Even if there's a chance scum couldn't get town to mislynch them the next day, at the very least Lily/Jack would have been a big distraction today were they still around. You don't NK your easiest mislynch target as scum, EVER. Don't assume dumb scum. Smart scum chooses to kill Lily/Jack last night 0/100 times.

 

"GAIS!!!  SCUM TEAM IS MAD SMART YO!!!  Check out my point earlier when I implied scum team was incredibly dumb and PFG and J-TAG were on thread colluding to make it obvious.  Cuz scum team is mad smart and mad dumb." - Swaggy P 

 

But, thanks for cluing us in to how your team decided on the NK last night.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:49 AM, ReleaseTheEvil said:

Ok so before my course starts this morning going to post a quick reads list that Despo is going to moan about. Here we go:

 

WiFuM (Ithi, Turin) - Town read. Pretty solid one. I like Turin's posts a lot and his approach to analyzing the posts of others. He's rational and his reasoning is sound.
YoloHashSwag (Despo, Verbal) - Desporrhea and Verbal. I think only Despo understands Despo sometimes and even then I'm not so sure. Verbal seems a bit more cautious this game than usual in that he isn't tunneling as much. Unfortunately I think they are town. Oh well. Despo unfortunately gets out of/doesn't care about inconsistencies between WoTs though but not really a scum tell for him. Problem is he won't post much differently as town or scum IMO.
J-TAG (AJ, TG) - J-TAG have been getting a ton of heat but I think they have handled it with a fair amount of poise and composure, despite what others may think. I think their responses have been good and keeping a pretty cool head about things has looked good in their favor. That being said not sure what to make of them not voting Day 1. Leaning town.
PFG (Pralaya, BFG) - This is where I think the scum is hiding. BFG's play seemed markedly different from a recent game and Pral is trying to save a sinking ship I think. Don't like how they looked on the lynch yesterday at all. Scummy.
Release the Leno (RTE, Lenlo) - LOCK-CLEAR (Christ, did I just say that?)
Sexy Sisters (Tina, Leelou) - Scum read. These two are either having their worst town game ever or are scum. I'm going for the latter.
CRUNK (Tom, CoryCurren) - Pretty sure Cory is in this game to make it unbearable for everyone else. All things aside when you sift through the showboating and general loud-mouthing he plays a sound game. Tom coming in is going to blow this game apart between these two and Despo. But town read right now.
Spliffanity (Krak, Dap) - Dap is MIA which makes me sad. Krak is cool in my books though. Town read on spliffies.
Clarthe (Cloud, Darthe) - Honestly null read. Darthe is playing a bit safer than usual I think and I would certainly say the same for Cloud who hasn't shot himself in the foot in a while.
HaXorz (Hally, Xthrax) - If there is one last scum it's here. Hallia is playing her usual game but not falling for it here. Something is off, I suppose it's more gut than anything else but I'm going with a scum lean. Would like to hear more though.

 

So, pretty colored list time:

 

RTL

WiFum

Spliffanity

 

CRUNK

#YOLO

J-TAG

 

PFG

SexySisters

HaXorz

Clarthe

 

## Vote PFG

 

Is this where I kiss Despo's ass now so he doesn't call my post scummy?

 

RTE, all these reads are terrible.  All of them.  This is why I wanted you to come in and give input. 

 

@RTE - What do you think of Pral's vote that basically secured teh lynch on SH?  Do you think it was just distancing?  Why do you use the exact same meta argument on PFG and on Swaggy P but come to different conclusions?  Can you expand on your read of SS as to why you say they are having their "worst game ever"?

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 8:10 AM, Pralaya said:

Trying to scum switch to a competing train and when called out, giving out the excuse as "testing reaction" is Scum 101. Just confirms what I have saying about you so far.

 

 

There are some cases when town can and should vote for reactions.  I don't agree with you on this in general.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:17 AM, Despothera said:

AJ stresses again that he finds the voting patterns odd, makes it seem like more people should be seeing that Straw Hats aren't scum because everyone is voting along with their scumreads on D1.

 

Dude seems to have a complex about it lol

 

 

Now, I could have quoted like 8-9 other examples of AJ either hard or soft defending Straw Hats to help supplement this, but yeah honestly everyone needs to go back and read AJ's iso. Then come back and tell me what you think about how AJ defended SH, and if it seemed like he had good reasons too, or was instead overly concerned with helping a teammate stay alive.

 

So SH gets lynched, flips scum. AJ's next post?

 

Thing is he doesn't actually point out anything himself about why PFG is scum. He instead quotes ONE post by Cory and says it's the THREE best posts of the game... but doesn't comment on what Cory pointed out about PFG ignoring the Straw Hats situation entirely when they tried voting SS. He instead tries saying his team is LOCK CLEAR because of Thane and Amega's null to town reads on them....

 

Which is some of the biggest BS I have EVER seen AJ push btw. LAWLZ.

 

When he actually DOES get to commenting on PFG, he actually ends up defending them more than listing why he is voting them. Like seriously, WTF?!?!?!?! How are yall not pointing this out before I get the chance to?

 

 

So okay he has PFG as his highest scumread even tho he doesn't say why they're likely scum, and also defends them a bit while doing so. Wow...

 

 

Pray adds that he has AJ as scum.

 

TG comes in and tries supporting Pray's terribad case with some ultra-selective quoting here and there (I'll rip that garbage up momentarily), and votes YOLO.

 

AJ comes in and instead of having a problem with his teammate voting along with a scumread of theirs WHICH IS APPARENTLY THE MOST CARDINAL SIN YOU CAN COMMIT THIS GAME ACCORDING TO AJ, AJ instead follows along with some terribad reasoning on why PFG is clear and then tries twisting around to "thinking" that we could be scum instead.

 

I mean seriously people... how if this stuff not obvious to you?

 

 

So you shouldn't be voting along with your scum reads, huh?  What if your read on someone flips from scum to town, you know, because you are in a hydra game and your partner convinces you.  What then?

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

Two more quick things I guess I'll address in a post of their own:

 

Regarding me saying "Save SH who is basically confirmed scum for later, lets look elsewhere for now): How anyone could not see this as protown is beyond me. I'm not concerned with finding one scum, I'd rather find them all. When I said what I said, we still had two days left. I wanted town to continue having a productive day as far as gathering evidence, reactions, and connections with others, instead of just letting SH be the de facto lynch and letting scum slip busvotes in easily. I still expected SH to be the lynch, I just wanted town to have the chance to get more accomplished with the time we had left. Unfortunately, I did get busy one of those days as the Champion's game was wrapping up, but that doesn't change the fact that my intent was for town to have as productive a D1 as it could. I've said it many times, strong D1's are a HUGE deal in helping town secure a win.

 

AJ has tried comparing it to when he tried saving a teammate as scum after a cop outed them. The two situations aren't even close to comparable. The chances of getting any kind of good discussion going after a cop reveals a guilty reading are nil to less than nil. We've all seen it, many times. Cop claims guilty, people follow the cop. Occasionally you'll see CC's, or Miller claims or something, but again, you'll rarely see actual good discussion going on anything else. Everyone just wants to see the flip. What AJ did that game was wolfy as hell. What I did was protown.

 

Here he votes Evil Sibs, even tho Evil Sibs was actually Lily/Jack, not Leelou/Tina who he was fosing here. He apparently later changed it or something, asked Csarmi why he didn't accept his vote change... leading me to suspect that he might have changed his vote in pm or QT or something.

 

Anyways, the emphasized is the only commentary he gave on the biggest issue up to that point- Thane and Amega. He briefly says he sees the case against Thane/Amega but doesnt specifically say whether or not he agrees with it. He does bring up that it has a newbie in it however, apparently trying to appeal to town's guilt to not vote a newb (remember in the wot I did that showed how much Thane was playing up his n00bness?)

 

He doesn't push this read very hard... coasts for a bit, then posts his next vote:

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 3:42 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/1/2014 at 2:21 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Verb, you think PFG is bussing us? If we are both mafia that would have to be the case.

It is a bit odd that pral has voted us when bfg had us as townish at last check IIRC.

If no one else wants to lynch straw hats today, how about crunk? It would save Cory from having to deal with us scrubs. And we gat rid of a Mafioso.

 

Yep, she thinks you are town. 

 

Anyway, there is no other alternative today. Let's get this done with.

 

vote straw hats

 

So TG and AJ are trying to get town believe that this vote somehow clears PFG as town. HA!

TG says that the train had stalled and AJ says that scum didn't have to worry about a random lynch and SH was a Power Role, therefore his teammates def wouldn't have bussed him!

 

 

Problem is, the train had stalled somewhat but that's because it was still coming off of DM Mafia Weekend and voting in general had stalled, not just SH's train. And IN THE POST PRAY QUOTES, Turin is pointing out how the train has stalled. TG didn't even quote this post incidentally, probably knowing that it would be harder to sell the BS he tries to sell. Because if people are talking about the train stalling, and someone even quotes someone saying so, it KINDA removes the possibility of giving them towncred for their vote.

 

Not only that, but Pray doesn't even comment on SH's claim, which is a HUGE deal, or whether or not he even believes that they are scum or not, which is an even BIGGER deal.

 

The BS is too damn high!  Swaggy P, why not just scum claim instead of writing terribad stuff like this?  Seriously.

 

Cardinal Sin #1: You lie about what you said.  Here you claim you said "basically confirmed scum, lets look elsewhere for now."  What you actually said is:

 

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 8:04 AM, Despothera said:

There's actually a lot of other irregularities and pings from them (like Amega's recent reread posts are crap), but I for one would rather set them aside as practically confirmed scum and lynch elsewhere.

 

You want to lynch elsewhere.  Not look elsewhere.  There is a huge difference.  But, as scum you probably can't help yourself from having to lie about these sorts of things. 

 

As for the comparison AJ made about cop claim, I agree they aren't the same situation.  In this situation you are desperately trying to save a teammate by redirecting town to "lynch elsewhere" while straddling the line of pretending to still find them scummy.  Then you change the narrative to pretend it was all for info and all you wanted was to keep discussion going.  Gross.

 

And then you have the gall to claim you still expected SH to be the lynch.  Earlier you said to "lynch elsewhere."  Now you claim you expected their lynch.  Your flailing makes me laugh. 

 

As for changing the vote in a PM, that is garbage and you know it.  Scum would say something like that to try and sow fear.

 

And then all that garbage about the train stalling.  You agree the train stalled.  Turin agreed the train stalled.  Everyone agrees teh train stalled.  But you somehow say that, in a situation where there is no penalty for No Lynch, restarting the train to secure a lynch against a powered scum role was nothing more than a ploy for town cred?  Seriously?   Yes, it does give town cred, because voting counts.  For a lot.  Whether or not it was pointed out that the train stalled doesn't change the one thing that actually has power in this game, the vote. 

 

And about how Pray not justifying his vote invalidates it is illogical and you know it.

[Tyler Glembo]

TL;DR  Swaggy P outright lies about what he said earlier in the game to make it seem less scumtastic.

[csarmi]

Votecount 2.05

 

J-TAG (2) - Sexy Sisters, Clarthe

PFG (3) - YoloHashSwag, CRUNK, RTL

YoloHashSWag (3) - PFG, J-TAG, WiFuM

 

Not voting: Spliffanity, HaXorz

 

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

Deadline-D2

[Hallia]

I've been keeping up with the game via mobile, but the hubby was on yesterday and is on for the next two days bedrest, so I spent last evening moving our tv/ps3 into the bedroom so he can be comfy while I'm at work.  I will be active starting this evening when I get home from work.  But yes, those reads were pretty bad, Tg.

 

 Vote RTL

[Verbal32]

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:31 PM, Pralaya said:

 

Wow, already at L-3.

 

Yes, my read on Thane was wrong. As Turin mentioned, I understood the case against them but I wrongfully assumed that the slips were due to newbieness. It is clear now that it wasn't because of that and I was wrong. Most of my reads during my Day 1 was based on that assumption. 

 

That is the reason I went after Ithi/Turin because I thought they were pushing hard a lynch who I thought was town. It does look bad in hingsight but there were already other things that were already going on for my vote to be actually a distraction. Cory was already going after Jack long before I voted Ithi/Turin and if it was actually my intention to prevent lynch on SH, I could have joined that train which was already at 3 votes. I voted Turin because I felt he was actually scum at that point.

 

Finally, I am surprised at how quickly today's trains have been pushed. Especially by those who were not even present in the scum lynch. Alien/Jailkeeper is one of the strongest role that scum could have and the day almost went to a non-lynch, Cory was conveniently not available to hammer them. J-Tag was absent and nowhere to be found during deadline. Verbal was available but did not vote. It was pointed out by Ithi too Verbal gave the excuse that he was re-reading (Co-incidence or not, they are the ones on my train right now)

 

In fact, Verbal was trying to nudge me and set me up since yesterday. When Ithi pointed out why I had not given a read on Amega (which I had earlier), Verbal jumped qickly to agree with her. Ithi had asked it because she was on the phone and had not read my post on SH, but I am pretty sure Verbal had and that nudge looked bad because of it. 

 

Overall, I feel that verb/des is pushing a convenient train on us. I had a wrong read on Thane to be town due to his newbieness and that was the cause for my votes. 

 

 

lolwut

 

I said I had an eye on the clock.  I did not miss anything - that is you blatantly trying to spin the situation to look badly on me.  Yuck.

[Andrej]

 

Just doing some stretches before I get on this WoT orgy that is Despo and his bull crap.

 

Seriously, how are you guys not reading this posts and finding the scum narrative in it?

 

ATTENTION DM MAFIA PLAYERS: IF YOUR VOTE IS CURRENTLY ON ANYONE OTHER THAN VD: YOU. ARE. WRONG.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:38 PM, Turin Turambar said:

Worse than Despo's steaming pile of stench?

 

Until someone can give a credible mafia motivation for Pralaya voting straw hats after Cory stalled the train and Despo started two counter trains on townies I have PFG as town.

 

If you won't listen to J-TAG or PFG, at least this guy is making sense.

[Pralaya]

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:57 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

lolwut

 

I said I had an eye on the clock.  I did not miss anything - that is you blatantly trying to spin the situation to look badly on me.  Yuck.

 

That is not believable, Verbal

 

Combined with Des trying to push aside the lynch of SH, him trying to stall the SH train and pushing an alternate train on ES, it doesn't look at all that you were ready to switch your vote.

 

To give an actual example of trying to spin the situation to make it look bad. Des voting me on the basis that I started a distraction late game when Des has been the one doing that distracting the SH lynch with the ES train.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:07 AM, Despothera said:

BFG mosdef LOCK SCUM

 

Dodges questions and points made against her, and phones in another wot that is obviously missing her normal insight. Just a lazy play by play.

 

In other news, there is literally zero value to be found in any of Turin's posts for the last few pages. I'm doing town a favor and completely disregarding them to lessen the impact of his fail on the game.

/such a nice guy

 

 

So I def wanted to see what would happen if I voted PFG. While I def thought they were scum, J-TAG looked more obviously scummy, but still it was worth it to see the reactions. And whaddya know, all of a sudden J-TAG and PFG are colluding. AJ trying to switch his read on PFG all of a sudden has been funny to watch lol. Brb, wanna show yall something...

 

 

This is a good example of Despo attempting to discredit all those around him. He doesn't point out anything specific in regards to PFG or Turin's posts, he just calls them bad and quickly moves on to something else. I feel like PFG's WoT was actually pretty insightful. You are either just failing to read it properly or intentionally want to discredit her now because guess what? You're listed as her scum read. It's amusing to me how he is trying to play up my change of opinion on PFG as a scumtell, when all game he has been preaching that having reads that aren't fluid are a low-level scumhunter fallacy

 

Des, dude - you're so full of it.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:10 AM, Despothera said:

Oh!

 

 

One other immensely entertaining thing to enjoy recently is AJ and TG having back and forth and "agreeing" with stuff as if they were two different slots or something. LOL!!!

 

 

AJ, I'm glad you ended up rolling scum this game. Few would be so entertaining in their desperation moves as you have been today

 

 

The joke's on you bud lol. You can keep tiptoeing around but eventually I'll have the satisfaction of seeing you swing. I'm not even going to really address this post because Pral and my partner have already ripped you a new one over it, but yeah.

 

Moving on.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:54 AM, Despothera said:

Two more quick things I guess I'll address in a post of their own:

 

Regarding me saying "Save SH who is basically confirmed scum for later, lets look elsewhere for now): How anyone could not see this as protown is beyond me. I'm not concerned with finding one scum, I'd rather find them all. When I said what I said, we still had two days left. I wanted town to continue having a productive day as far as gathering evidence, reactions, and connections with others, instead of just letting SH be the de facto lynch and letting scum slip busvotes in easily. I still expected SH to be the lynch, I just wanted town to have the chance to get more accomplished with the time we had left. Unfortunately, I did get busy one of those days as the Champion's game was wrapping up, but that doesn't change the fact that my intent was for town to have as productive a D1 as it could. I've said it many times, strong D1's are a HUGE deal in helping town secure a win.

 

AJ has tried comparing it to when he tried saving a teammate as scum after a cop outed them. The two situations aren't even close to comparable. The chances of getting any kind of good discussion going after a cop reveals a guilty reading are nil to less than nil. We've all seen it, many times. Cop claims guilty, people follow the cop. Occasionally you'll see CC's, or Miller claims or something, but again, you'll rarely see actual good discussion going on anything else. Everyone just wants to see the flip. What AJ did that game was wolfy as hell. What I did was protown.

 

[...]

 

Problem is, the train had stalled somewhat but that's because it was still coming off of DM Mafia Weekend and voting in general had stalled, not just SH's train. And IN THE POST PRAY QUOTES, Turin is pointing out how the train has stalled. TG didn't even quote this post incidentally, probably knowing that it would be harder to sell the BS he tries to sell. Because if people are talking about the train stalling, and someone even quotes someone saying so, it KINDA removes the possibility of giving them towncred for their vote.

 

Not only that, but Pray doesn't even comment on SH's claim, which is a HUGE deal, or whether or not he even believes that they are scum or not, which is an even BIGGER deal.

 

Basically there's one correct way to view this vote, and one wolfy way. The wolfy way would be to try and make it seem like the SH lynch wouldn't have happened without Pray's vote, making him look instrumental in lynching a scummie. The correct way to view it is that Pray was trying to derail the SH lynch by barely talking about SH and trying to lynch SS (even tho he voted for ES) and that he reluctantly decided to bus a teammate when it looked like no other lynch was happening. Pray outs himself with his tone in this post.

 

An important vote on a lynch going down to the wire and you don't comment on the lynch target's claim or whether or not they seem like scum? Yeahhhhhh that's a wolfclaim folks.

 

 

First bold: I seriously can't believe you are trying to push the pro-town angle here. This is the exact same argument I used as scum to try and save my scummate. It's funny that you are saying what I did was wolfy and yours pro-town because of what? The only real difference in the two scenarios was that my partner was already outted as to where in this case the verdict was still out for SH. This is literally your only saving grace, but at this point it's extremely transparent what your motivations were revolving around the SH wagon. The game may be different, the situation and roles different, but at its simplest form the motivation was still the same. You tried to save your teammate by swooping in, setting them aside and then starting up a counterwagon. You almost succeeded too, if it weren't for the likes of Pral and Jack making sure SH was hammered.

 

Second bold: Why does it really matter if he commented on their claim or whether or not he thinks they were scum? You're playing up the rhetoric too much here.

 

This is the bottom line: Pral ensured the SH lynch. You started the counter wagon and did not help to ensure the lynch all the while still listing SH as a high scum read.

 

101 folks.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:17 AM, Despothera said:

Also, thinking that the mafia team would have NKed a Bodyguard directly last night is incredibly low level mafia type thinking. :disappoint: @ Ithi for thinking that that was what happened.

 

Besides the fact that a BG is a nerfed Doc so not really much to worry about

 

Besides the fact that Jack gave some wifom about scum targeting them possibly being bad for them (most smart scum teams would have recognized it as wifom, but still would have just shot elsewhere to be safe)

 

And besides the fact that most people didn't buy the claim, especially after SH's Tracker claim was proven false

 

Jack/Lily were by far the easiest mislynch scum had. The way Jack voted and unvoted after the Tracker claim made them look AWFUL, and most people had them as high scum reads. Even if there's a chance scum couldn't get town to mislynch them the next day, at the very least Lily/Jack would have been a big distraction today were they still around. You don't NK your easiest mislynch target as scum, EVER. Don't assume dumb scum. Smart scum chooses to kill Lily/Jack last night 0/100 times.

 

This post is also bad and reads very much like an attempt to distance from the NK by saying the scum team made a 'low-level' type play that Almighty Despothera would never do.

 

Please.

 

Jack/Lily claimed a town PR.

Mafia wants to kill town PRs.

 

It's that simple. Mislynch opportunity or not, there was no guarantee that ES would've been lynched, especially unCC'd.

[Verbal32]

  On 4/2/2014 at 8:50 PM, Ithillian said:

Good evening.

 

Nice show.

 

I'd just like to put it out there - that if you've got a Role that could potentially block a kill and you don't know who they're targeting AND their not allowed to protect themselves, then it's probably best to not try and second guess who they're going to protect and instead just go straight in there for the kill.

 

Get them out of the way.

 

I think the Mafia team targeted ES directly.

 

Because yes - they were very suspect and yes, they might have got Lynched the next day - but that was never guaranteed.

 

And Jack's quite canny at Mafia. They got a twofer lol.

 

Yup - if you're worried about the bodyguard then just shoot the bodyguard.

 

There's a smart, forward thinking mafia team out there that saw Jack had the next day's Lynch all pegged out and then they could kill him, roll with that idea for a bit maybe - flip it onto someone else and see what happens. Because we'd all see Jack was down and go OMG he said AJ was mafia and he was Town so AJ must be Mafia. It seems like the AJ thingy is getting turned a little now though.

 

Now AJ might be mafia ... I never did get round to reading what Jack posted and it's nearly 10pm already - but I'm not liking the pile on and the hmmmmmm and the replay onto someone else.

 

It's all seeming a little choreographed to me.

 

And hey - I'm Town. I can say what I like without being worried about 'what people will think'

Crazy. Scum should never shoot the 'as close to secured next day lynch as you can get' team that night. Crazy. Multiple Hydras were dialed in on lynching ES the next day. Scum completely waste a kill on them. What better way to remove a potential block later on? LYNCH THEM. I can't believe you're saying this.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 1:31 AM, Andrej said:

@Turin - I think this the post you're talking about. Here Amega soft-defends #Yolo by trying to downplay Turin's push on them as either brash or a typical D1 tunneling affair.

 

Which is more likely - Amega trying to buy cred with a townie by soft-defending, or an unnecessary distance move when we were the ones under fire from WiFum? I notice that you like to trump up small details and make them bigger than they are. Keep it simple - the simple answer is Amega buying some cred with Des & I. If we were lynched, it looks good for him. Again, this is the simplest answer - stop trying to muddy the waters.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 10:25 AM, Pralaya said:

And, you can give excuses about not being present to switch the votes to lynch SH when it actually mattered. Fine, you were busy. But, Verbal was present. He posted minutes online before the lynch. And, yet he was reluctant to switch the vote. Only Jack was online at the time and it looked like Verbal wanted to day to go to a no-lynch.

 

I was reluctant?  Did I say that?  You are trying to build a situation and mindset that you can't possibly know.  This is by-the-book scum play -- trying to paint somebody bad based on a post that isn't there.  If you twist a post that is there....well, townies do that sometimes.  But you're trying to speak to a post that doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 1:48 PM, TGlems said:

@SwaggyP.  Answer me this.  Given that there is no penalty for not achieving a lynch, do you really think SH would have gotten lynched yesterday if PFG hadn't voted them right before DL like they did?

 

2 answers:

 

1.  Yes.

2.  If not for whatever reason, what are the obvious next steps?  Allow me to assist here:

 

Step 1:  town probably lynches SH the next day anyway.

Step 2:  YOLO looks downright awful in that situation.  Like, reeeeally bad.

 

That should be enough to answer your question.

 

 

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:06 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:57 PM, Verbal32 said:

lolwut

 

I said I had an eye on the clock.  I did not miss anything - that is you blatantly trying to spin the situation to look badly on me.  Yuck.

 

That is not believable, Verbal

 

Combined with Des trying to push aside the lynch of SH, him trying to stall the SH train and pushing an alternate train on ES, it doesn't look at all that you were ready to switch your vote.

 

To give an actual example of trying to spin the situation to make it look bad. Des voting me on the basis that I started a distraction late game when Des has been the one doing that distracting the SH lynch with the ES train.

 

Pushing a 2nd train is not that scummy, even if the original train was scum.  It was obvious that Des & I had ES in our sights as well.  We were happy with a few different teams getting lynched, as I think I even stated in one of the various quotes Turin pulled of mine.

[Verbal32]

@Turin:

 

I did have you guys as potential scum longer than Des.  His thinking brought me around - I was more suspicious of you guys than he was.  That should explain why I left you guys as scum possibilities for a while after Des had moved on.

 

I'm still town on you, actually.  Main reason at this point is you know we think you're town.....so to come at us like this isn't a smart move for you.  You don't even need to buddy us - just not addressing us would be enough for us to stay away and think you're town.

 

So, yeah.  I doubt I'll switch back to a scum read on you unless you have a huge scumslip.

[Verbal32]

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:35 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 7:17 AM, Despothera said:

Also, thinking that the mafia team would have NKed a Bodyguard directly last night is incredibly low level mafia type thinking. :disappoint: @ Ithi for thinking that that was what happened.

 

Besides the fact that a BG is a nerfed Doc so not really much to worry about

 

Besides the fact that Jack gave some wifom about scum targeting them possibly being bad for them (most smart scum teams would have recognized it as wifom, but still would have just shot elsewhere to be safe)

 

And besides the fact that most people didn't buy the claim, especially after SH's Tracker claim was proven false

 

Jack/Lily were by far the easiest mislynch scum had. The way Jack voted and unvoted after the Tracker claim made them look AWFUL, and most people had them as high scum reads. Even if there's a chance scum couldn't get town to mislynch them the next day, at the very least Lily/Jack would have been a big distraction today were they still around. You don't NK your easiest mislynch target as scum, EVER. Don't assume dumb scum. Smart scum chooses to kill Lily/Jack last night 0/100 times.

 

This post is also bad and reads very much like an attempt to distance from the NK by saying the scum team made a 'low-level' type play that Almighty Despothera would never do.

 

Please.

 

Jack/Lily claimed a town PR.

Mafia wants to kill town PRs.

 

It's that simple. Mislynch opportunity or not, there was no guarantee that ES would've been lynched, especially unCC'd.

 

 

No guarantee, but damn....it was as good as.  ES was the lynch the next day.  As scum didn't die that night, I guess this means ES made a good block.  If so, why are we discussing this?

 

Even if they were protecting team A and ES was shot by scum (so they didn't have the ability to PGO kill the attacker), this is all unknown by the town and therefore not worth assuming things over.

 

Bottom line:  scum either shot ES or ES made a good block.  In the first case, poor shot by scum on a VERY likely lynch the following day.  If the second, then whatever.  It did remove the distraction to town, which was a good thing.

[Verbal32]

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:17 AM, Despothera said:

Alright here's what I wanted to point out real quick before moving on to other stuff:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 12:22 AM, Andrej said:

Confrontational Darthe is confrontational.

 

Still down for those dak pics? lol

 

I have a question for you Darthe. Could you explain your linking scenario a little more for me? You're voting Straw Hats, I believe... but also putting down RTE's reads post as a psy-scum tell.

 

Therefore you think Straw Hats is scum as well as RTL.

 

RTL is now voting Straw Hats.

 

Does this disrupt your scenario in any way?

 

How does me pointing out your statement towards RTE make me scum with Straw Hats (if they are scum) and RTL more likely to be town?

 

So here's where AJ first soft defends SH by pointing out that Darthe is voting alongside RTL, another scum read of his.

 

Now, AJ makes this point on D1, a horrible time to be pointing something like this out. Darthe responded accordingly, and basically said he knew he could be wrong on reads, especially early in the game, so he tends not to weigh associative tells too heavily. Perfect answer, as this is the mindset any solid scumhunter should have in the early goings of a game.

 

You keep pushing this angle to no avail. Allow me to clarify since you find it fitting to either twist or badly assume my intent behind this post. I will admit that at the time I wasn't very vocal about it, but I did have a very pointed reason for questioning Darthe for his statement. It read to me when he said that SH was the best bet for scum, but that he'd also be fine lynching RTL, which sounded like a "either or" type thing which I generally don't get good vibes from. I can agree that he did answer well, which is why I didn't push much further there.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:17 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 12:36 AM, Andrej said:

Pral's game entrance gave me bad juju as well but I like how he is pushing the SS girls. He is usually an outlier when it comes to voting as town I have noticed, so I retract the early scum read. Would like to see more from BFG though, if she is town it will soon be apparent.

 

And this is AJ's very next mention of Pray... notice how he clears him for really bad reasoning?

 

Again, early on associative tells are weak. So him also suspecting the same people you do should NEVER clear him on D1. The "outlier as town with voting" thing is just bad. There's nothing you can do to convince me you would go from scumlean to town for that kind of reasoning.

 

Something else to note is how AJ likes Pray for pushing the SS girls...

 

  On 3/31/2014 at 12:52 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 3/30/2014 at 11:20 PM, Turin Turambar said:

partially answered before. I would still like to hear if you both think that Lenlo's reasoning is sound. Do you follow what he is basing his reads on. Or if you would do you think he is genuine on his beliefs or is he trying to sell something.

 

Lily currently has mafia reads on the following:

RTLenlo

Haxorz

WiFuM

Straw Hats 

 

Do you agree with those? I assume that you do agree with RTL and most likely HaXorz, how about WiFuM and Straw Hats?

 

Lily is voting a scumread along with her other scumread.

 

Curious.

 

Evil Sibs can slide to leaning scum.

 

Yet 20 mins later, AJ says Evil Sibs can slide to leaning scum.

 

Meaning he didn't have her as scum before this.

 

Meaning he thought Pray could be town for pushing against the SS girls even tho he didn't have them as a scumread yet.

 

Yeahhhhhh..... this is a wolfclaim yall. Guess AJ had already mentioned in the QT to go after the SS girls but forgot that he hadn't done so in thread yet. LAWLZ.

 

 

Anyways, back to my real point.

AJ slides SS to scum because he says they're voting along with a scumread of theirs... on D1, when townie's reads are most likely to jump back and forth a lot. Again, this is piss poor thinking for any scumhunter worth their salt. AJ isn't this bad.

 

First bold: You can argue the etiquette of how to play D1 as much as you'd like. I have a way that I play that I generally think is effective. I see no reason why someone who I feel is thinking along the same lines as I am shouldn't be listed more on my good side. The 'outlier voting' thing is meta, I admit, but even that is valid as you should know from playing experience with Pral. Also in the text you quoted from me, where did I say that Pral was suddenly a town read? All that I stated was that I was taking back my scum read = sliding them to null.

 

 Second bold: You're so full of it dude lol. I have to give you credit for just how far you'll go out on a limb to twist your scum narrative, but still. Can you search and find a quote prior to this where I listed my reads? How else would you know where my head was at in regards to ES and SS?

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 9:17 AM, Despothera said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:54 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 4/2/2014 at 6:51 PM, _CLOUD said:

So you have a town read on AJ?

 

No, looking like scum, as I mentioned in my post. Not as strong feeling as I have on verb/des, based on their nudging and setting up.

 

Pray adds that he has AJ as scum.

 

TG comes in and tries supporting Pray's terribad case with some ultra-selective quoting here and there (I'll rip that garbage up momentarily), and votes YOLO.

 

AJ comes in and instead of having a problem with his teammate voting along with a scumread of theirs WHICH IS APPARENTLY THE MOST CARDINAL SIN YOU CAN COMMIT THIS GAME ACCORDING TO AJ, AJ instead follows along with some terribad reasoning on why PFG is clear and then tries twisting around to "thinking" that we could be scum instead.

 

I mean seriously people... how if this stuff not obvious to you?

 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 12:37 AM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 12:06 AM, TGlems said:

I'll let AJ answer more about SS, but we've chatted about everyone so far. 

 

As for PFG, we have different reads and have all game.  AJ find Pral scumtastic, I don't.  After point out to AJ that Pral secured the lynch on SH though, he changed his read on PFG to fit mine.

 

Pretty much this.

 

Yeah we'll get to this LAWLZ. Worst attempt to "clear" a scummy teammate EVAH.

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:15 AM, Andrej said:

I would also suggest that you guys ISO her and read the spoilered WoTs. Her thoughts come across to me as very organic and she spots many things that are the topic of discussion now.

 

Sorry I doubted you earlier Pral

 

Bahahahahahaha so FUNNY!!!!!!

 

 

You've been eager to clear PFG ever since first fos'ing Pray for a bad opening post. Literally anything that comes along that can be construed to make them look townie you've bought hook, line, and stinker.

 

First bold: I think my partner has a very good case to think PFG isn't scum, which I agreed with when he pointed it out to me. I am able to see from his angle and it makes sense to me. I highly doubt PFG was bussing SH, you pushing it so hard only reaffirms this for me. I also think Pral has countered you quite well since the start of this Day.

 

Des - Did you actually take the time to read BFG's ISO like I suggested? I doubt it.

 

 

 

This is because Despo has no interest in clearing other townies. He knows who the Town is already. Look at his actions in this game play by play:

 

Terribad entrance. Opens the game with a bunch of spam and gifs. Votes CRUNK in what I see as a buddying attempt. Begins to get votes thrown down on him, quickly goes into defensive mode. Counter-reasons with Ithi in a back and forth, proclaming her outted scum. Verb dukes it out with Turin about the sign-up thread and how Turin is pushing an easy lynch because of it. NEITHER OF THEM VOTE THEIR PROCLAIMED FOUND-SCUM.

 

Both go quiet.

 

StrawHats is at L-2. Despo swoops in, makes a pretty nice looking catch up post and then decides that SH should be set aside since they have claimed and started up the counter wagon on (now confirmed town) Evil Sibs.

 

Continues to push attention away from SH, piggy-backing with Cory and wanting WiFuM and ES to be the competing trains over SH (who he still has listed as a high scum read, btw)

 

Doesn't help to lynch SH with DL approaching although Verb had 'an eye on the clock'.

 

Comes out immediately on D2 attempting to push an easy and opportunistic case. The set-up is obvious and the farfetched stretching is even more obvious.

 

 

 

Currently this is a summation of what Despo has to say:

 

I am scum because I questioned the wagon on SH compared to him where he started a counterwagon on a confirmed Townie and wanted the other wagon to be someone that is a consensus cleared slot.

 

PFG is scum because they are off their meta. PFG was also apparently bussing SH and helped to lynch a very powerful scum role.

 

PFG and J-TAG are the remaining scum because I have changed my mind on a slot.

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:04 PM, Verbal32 said:

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

 

This is all you're really going to bring to the table Verb?

 

Your partner is one of the most sarcastic players around lol. And you think MY cases are too heavy on the cream?

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 3:53 PM, Verbal32 said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 1:48 PM, TGlems said:

@SwaggyP.  Answer me this.  Given that there is no penalty for not achieving a lynch, do you really think SH would have gotten lynched yesterday if PFG hadn't voted them right before DL like they did?

 

2 answers:

 

1.  Yes.

2.  If not for whatever reason, what are the obvious next steps?  Allow me to assist here:

 

Step 1:  town probably lynches SH the next day anyway.

Step 2:  YOLO looks downright awful in that situation.  Like, reeeeally bad.

 

That should be enough to answer your question.

 

Not just YOLO, but quite a few hydras, which is what we've been talking about for most of today.  I don't know if I can understand your scenario about Swaggy's potential motivations given how your hydra partner has framed cases around the SH and ES flips. 

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:00 PM, Verbal32 said:

No guarantee, but damn....it was as good as.  ES was the lynch the next day.  As scum didn't die that night, I guess this means ES made a good block.  If so, why are we discussing this?

 

Even if they were protecting team A and ES was shot by scum (so they didn't have the ability to PGO kill the attacker), this is all unknown by the town and therefore not worth assuming things over.

 

Bottom line:  scum either shot ES or ES made a good block.  In the first case, poor shot by scum on a VERY likely lynch the following day.  If the second, then whatever.  It did remove the distraction to town, which was a good thing.

 

I agree with the bold. 

 

 

 

Any response to RTE's reads?

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:04 PM, Verbal32 said:

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

 

What do you think about the other half of Swaggy P then?

[Tyler Glembo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:13 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:04 PM, Verbal32 said:

Random tidbit of info:  people that go super-sarcastic when trying to case somebody as scum.........are prob not townies.

 

See:  J-Tag

 

Super sarcastic in casing Des.  Trying to taunt a little, even.  Not the way a townie cases.  Scumtell or bad town play.  As I think both these guys are solid, I'll go with the first option.

 

 

PFG or J-Tag.  Move on from there.

 

This is all you're really going to bring to the table Verb?

 

Your partner is one of the most sarcastic players around lol. And you think MY cases are too heavy on the cream?

 

 

 

HA!  Hydra mild-meld. 

[Andrej]

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:21 PM, Lenlo said:

BFGs wot, since I'm on a phone ima just say it without quoting it, is bad. Baaaaaaad. When I get to a computer and am able to actually deal with a wot that size I'll give reasons but just know that I think it's baaaaaaaad.

 

Geez she's turning me into a sheep.

 

Len, I think this is more of a case of you either misunderstanding or reading poorly. I suggest you do in fact look over it again.

 

Her WoT is centered around the time SH claimed and the reactions on thread of other players as they read it, etc.

 

She quotes you several times where you have no mention of the claim, no mention of anything generally game related, etc.

 

And then there's one beauty where you make a statement that you don't think someone is the best lynch for the Day. Not sure if you were talking about SH or what since the quote is out of context, but clarifying would be helpful to your cause.

 

From what I gathered, her scum read on you comes from your lack of commenting on the game.

 

Which is understandable.

[Lenlo]

  On 4/3/2014 at 4:25 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 4/3/2014 at 2:21 PM, Lenlo said:

BFGs wot, since I'm on a phone ima just say it without quoting it, is bad. Baaaaaaad. When I get to a computer and am able to actually deal with a wot that size I'll give reasons but just know that I think it's baaaaaaaad.

Geez she's turning me into a sheep.

 

 

Len, I think this is more of a case of you either misunderstanding or reading poorly. I suggest you do in fact look over it again.

 

Her WoT is centered around the time SH claimed and the reactions on thread of other players as they read it, etc.

 

She quotes you several times where you have no mention of the claim, no mention of anything generally game related, etc.

 

And then there's one beauty where you make a statement that you don't think someone is the best lynch for the Day. Not sure if you were talking about SH or what since the quote is out of context, but clarifying would be helpful to your cause.

 

From what I gathered, her scum read on you comes from your lack of commenting on the game.

 

Which is understandable.

Not really no. I said I didn't think they were the best lynch for the day, but that they were the only available lynch I was willing to do. Meaning while I thought they weren't the best I thought they were a good lynch.

 

Also if I'm not mentioning the claim and I'm still voting them wouldn't it be logical to assume I don't buy it? After all if I did believe the claim I would have I voted them no?

 

So no I don't think it is understandable. I think it's bad.