how will it all end ?

[myles]

i think i know how the Wheel of Time will end but with not great detail.

 

We all know that the Ages on the wheel turn so they reacure so to lock up the Dark One Lanfere isn't dead and Rand will with some aid finnaly get over his fear of harming women and use bale fire so strong that Lanfere will cease to exist therefore not creating the hole in the Dark Ones Prision and the Prophosies of the Dragon will come to pass because the world will surely be destroyed because it will be a world withought the Dark Ones influence.

 

Feel free to disagree or argue or to tell me i am an idiot :oops:

[Darkhound]

NOTE: This is a only a thought a had today, and I have no facts to base it on. The theory also has some, shall we say technical issues, because of the whole brother and sister thing, but imagine this:

 

Rand defeats the DO, but in the process the whole world is destroyed. Everything, and everyone. Except for the twins, which survived in an abandoned Ogier Stedding.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot. Elayne chose to call the twins Adam and Eve...

 

Just a thought. Use it, don't use it.

[myles]

thank you i always like to here from people because i am new to this whole program

[Timewalker]

Myles, that would be a good theory if one fact was ignored. It's been said in the books that the more power used in a Balefire, the farther back the person is torn from. The power needed to send a person back 3,000 years must be greater than even the giants and Callandor combined could create, even if that wouldn't destroy the world from the shear power.

[Kadere]

That's a pretty radical and cool theory but I've got to agree with Timewalker, the amount of power going into that Balefire would be WAY too emince for Rand to do, even with all the angreal and men and women to help him. Lanfear is probably going down, but not like that. I do like the idea of Elyne's kids being Adam and Eve after the destruction of Earth, but Jordan has said a million times that Randland is in no way related to this world (if you believe that there was actually an Adam and Eve in this world).

[JediMaster]

Myles' date=' that would be a good theory if one fact was ignored. It's been said in the books that the more power used in a Balefire, the farther back the person is torn from. The power needed to send a person back 3,000 years must be greater than even the giants and Callandor combined could create, even if that wouldn't destroy the world from the shear power.[/quote']

 

You wouldn't have to balefire Lanfear back 3000 years. If he balefires her than she can't be reborn as Mierin when the wheel returns to the AOL so she can't be there to bore a hole in the DO's prison.

 

Of course, I think that the DO hasn't wanted to destroy the pattern the last time he tried to escape, (assuming that this isn't the first time the DO has tried to break free and that another Dragon Reborn has "resealed" the bore in a previous turning of the wheel) and that it is only this time around that he means to destroy the whole pattern just to piss off the Creator. I think that this is the one where it ends for sure, either Rand wins and the world goes on without the DO, or the DO wins and the Creator makes another pattern to play with. Tell me what you think.

[myles]

thanks for being honest and speaking your mind it really means alot to me

[Guest Majsju]

Well, even if Rand had been able to use enough power to balefire Lanfear over 3000 years back, think about the obvious consequence. During the AOL the pattern nearly unraveled from the use of balefire. Now, to remove Lanfear would mean removing so incredible many other threads that the world would xease to exist. Not exactly a great victory for Rand...

[Bob T Dwarf]

How does it all end?

 

Everybody dies and then a fat lady appears onstage, and the music swells, and... it all gets really Wagnerian after that.

 

:lol:

[DemandredFO]

Here's a thought

 

the Olephants and Ents skip to the WOT universe, destroy the prison then Gandalf comes and destroys Shaitan. Then everyone lives happily ever after. :)

[Angel of Death]

I think i know how the Wheel of Time will end but with not great detail.

 

We all know that the Ages on the wheel turn so they reacure so to lock up the Dark One Lanfere isn't dead and Rand will with some aid finnaly get over his fear of harming women and use bale fire so strong that Lanfere will cease to exist therefore not creating the hole in the Dark Ones Prision and the Prophosies of the Dragon will come to pass because the world will surely be destroyed because it will be a world withought the Dark Ones influence.

 

Feel free to disagree or argue or to tell me i am an idiot Embarassed

 

I think it will take an unimaginable amount of power to burn back soemthing like 3000 years, even 1 year will probally cause the pattern to collapse not to mention killing every mememer in the circle of what (13*13 ths max) by them drawing to much power.

But i do like the idea.

[Direwolf Jon]

I think that Rand could balefire Lanfear out of existance. He already did it to Rahvin. The DO said that it was not in his power to bring Rahvin back. So, if Rahvin was one of the forsaken 3000 years ago, what is different between him and Lanfear?

 

I don't think that Rand will permanently get rid of the DO. After all, there is evil in all worlds, it can't be permenantly driven away. The DO's presence has to be there, no matter how tiny of an influence it is. If the DO was truly gone, would people be immortal? Who would rule the underground or death? These are things that need to be thought about.

[OzzieAlThor]

I think the best idea of what will happen is what you see in "New Spring".

 

The entire "world" banded together to turn back the Aiel. Everyone fought together even with people they couldn't stand to fight "for the greater good".

 

The Aiel were driven back (or so they thought, when in reality we all know they stopped because they finally killed their man). Everyone took a breath so to speak and then went back to hating each other.

 

Why do I mention that?

 

Rand from KoD:

 

"A truce", he broke in. "And a truce with the Dragon Reborn will last only as long as the Dragon Reborn. When I die, everyone will be free to go to war with the Seanchan again if they wish."

 

Take that statement and couple it with what he says about what the Aelfinn told him:

 

I went through that doorframe ter'angreal in Tera, Cadsuane.One of my questions for the Aelfinn was "How can I win the Last Battle?". "The north and east must be as one. The west and south must be as one. The two must be as one."

 

So there will be a truce.

 

Next take Min's viewings about her, Elayne and Aviendha going off on a boat, them over Rand's funeral biar and all that. That suggests that the world survies as much in tact as can be after such a battle that will be coming. Those 3 on a boat with Rand who's "dead but isn't" suggest they are going off somewhere, away from the world that would recognize them. Off to live as peaceful life as they can.

 

So... the world survives. Even if it is to fight with the Seanchan. Although it's possible Tuon might decide to take some people back to rebuild and re-establish the Seanchan empire in their part of the world.

 

Rand, in whatever body you wish to believe he'll be in, and all the ladies go off and live somewhere quiet (since Rand can't exactly walk around their chunk of the world without being known as The Dragon Reborn now can he?).

 

I am interested in finding out how the M'hael and his Asha'man figure in on all this.

[Luckers]

Rhavin was not removed back three thousand years, at best Rand can achieve a day or two unaided.

[justnotjase]

Is the general feeling that Rand will actually die or will he somehow cheat the prophecy ?

[Luckers]

Goven the nature of the prophecies i think he will need to die in some manner, but those same prophecies indicate that following that death there will some way for him to continue. I'm a staunch believer of the body-swap theory, which you can find detailed accounts of elsewhere. Other suggestions include him dying and being recalled by the horn, him dying with the promise of his soul being reborn, him dying and somehow becoming one of his kids (eiww).

 

Are there any others?

[Guest Majsju]

him dying with the promise of his soul being reborn

 

Well, that one is pretty much a given, considering that Rand's soul is bound to the Wheel in a quite unique way. As long as there is a DO, Rand will be born and reborn in a neverending cycle.

[justnotjase]

Other suggestions include him dying and being recalled by the horn' date=' (eiww).

 

[/quote']

 

Now that one i like !

[Luckers]

Actually the eiww had to do with the theory suggesting he became his children.

 

I personally dont think any of those theories fulfill the nature of the prophecies... but meh.

[OzzieAlThor]

I think the Woman's Circle comes in and sniff's back the Dark One back to where he came from while boxing the Fade's ears at the same time.

[Guest Majsju]

Lets for the sake of examination pretend that Rand can be called back by the Horn. We've seen Heroes in action, and even though they were physically present in the real world, they were not actually alive.

So even if Rand would have been bound to the Horn, that could not fulfill the prophecy.

 

Dying and being reborn doesn't quite fit either, as RJ has pointed out that even though the soul is reborn, the new incarnation is a unique personality. Not even if Rand was to be hanging aroujnd in his next incarnations mind, like LTT is hanging out in his, would he be really alive.

 

 

I think the prophecy must be viewed together with Min's viewing about Alivia, that Alivia will help Rand die. This could indicate that something will be done to him, something that perhaps only death can undo.

And just for the fun of it, throw in the repeated mentioning of Nynaeve not giving up on Helaing until a person has been dead for three days.

 

One thing that springs to mind is the turning of a channeler through 13 channelers and 13 myrdraal.

[racha_giurgiu]

I think Maj is onto something with Ny "not giving up until dead for three days."

 

Creator (God) Rand (Jesus-not in peace espouzing hippie way, but as in savior of world way) and Holy Ghost (LTT-soul/spirit of someone rather than a physical entity of him). So Jesus dies and is buried. After three days rises. i dunno.. sounds like a good theory to disect to me.

[Luckers]

I'm sorry to be the guy that imediatly and emphatically goes against all christian readings of WoT... but seriously i have to. Anyone who has studied religion can see that christian symbolism is about the least powerful religious influence, if indeed it is present at all.

 

The Creator - A being of limited power--it could only contain the Dark One. One which does not involve itself at all, nor suggest a spiritual or physical path for its people. The Christian/ Judean Gods position are marked in particular by three things. One. The First covenant. Aid in the physical. Promise of good health and good crops. Broken by the diaspora. Then comes the second covenant. A more spiritual covenant, dealing with the moral actions of his people, as dictated by Law (massive importance... beyond modern comprehension, really). Finally the christian insistance of saving the soul from Satan, the Advocate, who exists with Gods permission to challange the faith of the worthy. God is the undoubted ruler 'I am Yahweh unchallanged.'

 

Im sorry but none of this matches Christian or Judean ideology at any stage. Far better to compare them to the dea, or the gods of Jainism and early Buddhism... even Bon, Hinduism, Witchcraft (though only a very specific subdivision of it) matches far more closely. The Dark One too.

 

Rand. I know you addressed it, but there are many, many massiah figures in history. jesus is significant only in his modern importance. 500 years ago and you'd find Mani from Manechetism far more widely known. Fit with Rand better. Or Lao from Taoism. Or Sun Tzu who wrote the Art of War.

 

Sorry. Jesus was a pacifist. he dealt with spiritual matters and ended up dead after six months. Rand is a warrior and a general... he doesn't give two hoots about his peoples spiritual wellbeing. As long as enough of them survive to continue the race he dont really give about their physical wellbeing either. Again far stronger ideological connections in other religious traditions.

 

And LTT... the Holy Spirit is a creature that Christianity and Judaism stole whole from Zoroasterianism... so if either deserves credit, its that. And in none was the Holy Spirit an insane voice in the followers heads (though i suppose in truth that could be argued).

 

The ammount of religions that have voices in their head are... well beyond count. Its animistic concept that is rife in thousands of religions. the Christian fit, with the assumption of divinity... sorry it doesn't fit with LTT's nature at all.

[racha_giurgiu]

And while your highly educated response about all of the religious symboliism is absolutely correct, the modern term of Christianity is the easiest way to relate the characters. not everyone understands that Christianity is essentially a hodge podge of religions that have lasted throughout time.

 

We recognize those characters' traits through a modern interpretation as God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. There are many, many things taken from one religion to suit another. So bear with me as I am using the most easily understood forms of the characters.

 

I am sure there is another instance where a messiah figure has died and come back, and I use Christ, knowing full well that he did not have the destructive nature that Rand or other messiahs have had because of his "save the world" connection and for no other.

 

Holy Ghost fills people and they start speaking in tongues, that's enough of hearing voices to me.

 

For more Christian references please see this page that seems to go into a great detail about POSSIBLE connections. Not to say they are definitive but the similarities are there. I include the trilogy as a similarity if not completely perfect, at least in as much as Creator, Savior and Spirit/soul.

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/3_sources/3.01_bible.html

[Luckers]

We recognize? The modern term of christianity is the easiest way to relate to characters?

 

I'm sorry but this isn't true. Not all people view the world through the skien of christian ideology, especially when that ideology does not fit the subject matter you are examining. Nor is a christian interpretation the most 'easily understood'. Its distortianism... altering the nature of something to fit a pre-existing world-view. Not even at its most basic is the Wheel of Time derived from a christian influence.

 

The easiest way to relate to the characters is to look at them as they are. I mean to use your example... Rand's nature as a messiah bears much closer connections to the concept of the Buddhist Boddhisatva whose soul returns time and again to this world, and refuses to pass on to Nirvana, so that he may save his people then it does to any christian idea of perpetuation of the soul, or the resurection of Jesus. Rand's nature as a character has a strong basis in Norse mythology which is almost antithetical to christian ideology. It goes on.

 

I'm sorry, i just cant see how a christian interpretation is either apt, easy or relevant.

 

(Note: I come accross as aggressive. I don't mean to but i know i do. Don't let it bother you. Disagree and prove me wrong, thats the point of these discussions. :) )