[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Basel Gill]

14. BaselAlanna:  mafia lean- I don't like the refusal to provide asked for info if can be done. Is generally easier to just restate or point in direction of quote at a minimum. The last vote switch before the game stopped was troubling to me also. need to try to find it. might be tomorrow before that happens.

 

Turin: I did not refuse to provide anything. As I already told Mish twice before I dropped out, THE INFO WAS ALREADY ON THE THREAD. Never mind that I actually was mafia... how do you figure that I (and Alanna by extension) are mafia because other people can't be bothered to go back and look at what I already wrote? Honestly, this is pretty offensive.

[dapianoplay3r]

15players

4mafia

1survivor

 

2town dead means 8 vs 5

Plus the lynch means 7 vs 5players

no doc so a death

day two breaks at 6vs 5

lylo

[dapianoplay3r]

But i see your point

its probably a better way but at the time it felt it would mod confirm des and aj

[michellem]

I think you did it the right way, Dap. Des was collateral damage but in the end it didn't matter; mafia won and I personally cannot see any better way of solving it.

[hazelkrs1]

Collateral damage?

 

 

Love you too Mish.

 

[michellem]

Lol I understand it sucked for you, but your team won even if you didn't personally, take that and don't pout about it

[hazelkrs1]

I play the game to enjoy playing it, not just to win. /shrug

[Andrej]

Des and I talked a bit after we were both removed from the game on the subject. I agree that Dap handled things well given the circumstances, although I still regret for having put him in that situation and turning the game into that sort of slugfest. As I said before I will actively work to keep that sort of thing from happening both as a player and Mod in mafia. So I hope there is no hard feelings from anyone. At the end of the day, it's still just a game. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and let's continue forward.

[Turin Turambar]

 

14. BaselAlanna:  mafia lean- I don't like the refusal to provide asked for info if can be done. Is generally easier to just restate or point in direction of quote at a minimum. The last vote switch before the game stopped was troubling to me also. need to try to find it. might be tomorrow before that happens.

 

Turin: I did not refuse to provide anything. As I already told Mish twice before I dropped out, THE INFO WAS ALREADY ON THE THREAD. Never mind that I actually was mafia... how do you figure that I (and Alanna by extension) are mafia because other people can't be bothered to go back and look at what I already wrote? Honestly, this is pretty offensive.

 

Sorry to offend but I am not sure why you are. I was giving my opinion. In my view it is indicative more of mafia thinking than town thinking. Mafia do all sorts of things to bury stuff in the game to make it harder for town to find things that can nab them. Town players are generally more interested in making sure that their points/opinions/thoughts are out there in order to try to continue the discussion. My two cents on the matter. Basically if someone asks for something that requires a two sentence answer it is easier (and more town-like) to just repeat it as opposed to giving a two sentence answer to state you are not going to do it. Both took the same amount of time but one is helpful and the other looks like someone with something to hide. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

Frankly speaking, your D3 play was horrible, Ishy.

Says the man with what? A dozen posts before he got killed and did dick to help? And GF, who does nothing but post nonsense? And Turin, who's entire mafia career is tunneling me or Despo? Yeah, Town's loss is on me. Not on people who look to me to carry every team I'm on and seem surprised when I expect them to, you know, actually do some work themselves. Or mods who cripple us Day one. Or three players who break every rule in the game and play so far outside the spirit of the game it's laughable. Yep, none of that, it's me.

 

EAD douche.

 

This is false, My entire career has been built on buddying and sheeping Ithi.

 

I'm frankly not sure where you got that from. I don't think I have ever tunneled on you. Maybe Darthe's game when you and Mynd were masons but it was mostly on him and you were just defending him(oh he was recruited that game too).

[Turin Turambar]

Sorry ive not been around guys. My net is completely gone afyer being shaky for days and my phone has died so it needs to be constantly on charge to use net .

 

Basically the choice of all 3 getting mod killed was, if i didnt then D1 became LyLo (yates was doc)

I thought it would be easier than a complete reroll.

The lack of coroners was to "punish" the town more than the mafia as despo was really forced into tjat corner and could not of done anything else really. It meant the game could proceed, balance was kept as best we could, the wifom was largely removed from the remaining mafia (a coronered des woulda sunk a lot of them, and i was advised by mote than one mod to modkill all or end

im sorry to all involved but i did what i felt was best and the most fair to all teams (apolovies despo)

 

Im sorry the famine never became a thing. Pral would of starved but he was NKed and lylo happened before the rest of you needed to beg for bread

 

id like to see baker games bevome a tbing, hopefully ill gst to do one in the future. Im thinking potToe famine in ireland but with whisky

 

ill post more and answer more questions once i get net back (tomorrow or day after)

 

I dont think it is appropriate for the mafia qt to be released just due to the modkilling stuff but if all the mafia from that timme (prereplacement) reread and agree ill allow it. But it is yheir choice

I think that perhaps there was another alternative. you could have just MK'ed Yates and AJ(Frankly I was MORE convinced that Despo was mafia after he posted his "town" role PM. there were formatting differences between it and both the real town role PM's I received. I noted it the first time but was pretty certain after I replaced Thorum). I think there would have been a real possiblity to lynch him based on his words already to that point. Funny, as I would have been accused of tunneling on him no doubt. I think that if Basel had stayed in the game he was also a possiblilty to lynch. alanna did do a great job of DC to get herself back to null at least in most eyes IMO

 

The unique opportunity I think would have come in the form of a replacement for a VT taking over the Doc role. They would have had no prior play to account for. They wouldn't even have to know that they got the different role. As the actions of the player and not the mafia resulted in the loss of the Doc it would not be a real loss to the mafia. I doubt anyone had Yates pegged as Doc at that point. Then Despo would not have had to been MK'ed. 

 

I say that I have to disagree that Despo couldn't have done anything else. It was the most expedient thing to do. But once it was made clear (by the MOD) that ALL THE PM's contained the first line it really should have just become a moot point. In fact clever Despo could have spun it into something that Yates and AJ cooked up on their QT.

 

AJ: nice PM. I just had a G'n'R flashback

Yates: yeah let's see if we can catch a townie with that.

AJ: cool plan. let's do it, LOL

 

The fact that he did post that PM shot when he was so against it ever being used sent up warning bells for me. He was so blatant in a recent game about not even character claiming as town because it was cheap that I couldn't see town Despo using such a ploy to get out of being lynched. It is too important to live as mafia.

 

Dap. Did you give the mafia the copy of the town VT PM at the start of the game? I kind of wonder about that?

 

Also, was the Mafia's QT called "The Aristocrats"? That would have been hilarious as it became a point of contention.

 

Finally, can you explain if the mafia did have a different mechanic for the bread/famine? and can we get a complete list of roles/actions? or is there a dead QT that I skimmed past missed? 

 

 

I guess any mafia member with the info could pass some of that along if they would be so kind...

[Alanna]

Well as Hoarder, I had 6 loaves of bread to start out, instead of 3. I believe the other mafia members all had 3?

[dapianoplay3r]

No

I told the mafia it was the same so I didn't feel the need to post one

I posted one at despos request (the thing I believe he copied) but I copied it from one of the VTs directly so I'm not sure about the formatting issue you talked about

 

Aristocrats was something you guys just decided on

I think only one of the mafia was what you would consider an aristocrat

[Basel Gill]

Well as Hoarder, I had 6 loaves of bread to start out, instead of 3. I believe the other mafia members all had 3?

 

Des had 6, and I had 3. You were given 6 when you came in to replace me.

[dapianoplay3r]

Yea I swapped des and Basels roles

[Andrej]

Again, I feel bad for how this game turned out.

 

Dap & Key: I feel like you guys did a wonderful job handling it despite the circumstances. I look forward to your future famine game and would love to play in it given the chance.

[dapianoplay3r]

I feel sorry for key

she had a lot dropped on her plate for a co mod

[Andrej]

Well hopefully she will understand as well. Regardless, well done. Sorry Town and gg mafia. You guys are probably lucky I got mk'd

[dapianoplay3r]

Even without the game issues i lost all net and phone access so a lot was up to her

ill post full set ups soon

[hazelkrs1]

I think that perhaps there was another alternative. you could have just MK'ed Yates and AJ(Frankly I was MORE convinced that Despo was mafia after he posted his "town" role PM. there were formatting differences between it and both the real town role PM's I received. I noted it the first time but was pretty certain after I replaced Thorum). I think there would have been a real possiblity to lynch him based on his words already to that point. Funny, as I would have been accused of tunneling on him no doubt. I think that if Basel had stayed in the game he was also a possiblilty to lynch. alanna did do a great job of DC to get herself back to null at least in most eyes IMO

I think the only thing I forgot to format correctly was the number of loaves I got. In the sample one Dap gave, it had the spot where the number would be censored out with asterisks. When I put three, I forgot that in my actual pm it said "SIX" loaves of bread, not "six."

 

I say that I have to disagree that Despo couldn't have done anything else. It was the most expedient thing to do. But once it was made clear (by the MOD) that ALL THE PM's contained the first line it really should have just become a moot point. In fact clever Despo could have spun it into something that Yates and AJ cooked up on their QT.

 

AJ: nice PM. I just had a G'n'R flashback

Yates: yeah let's see if we can catch a townie with that.

AJ: cool plan. let's do it, LOL

 

Nothing else that I could have done would have cleared attention off of me about the role pm thing. A mod stepping in and addressing everyone to drop it wouldn't have helped, people would have still had it in the back of their mind. The thing about saying AJ and Yates could have cooked it up in their QT would have been complete conjecture, there's actually nothing there to back that up. That wouldn't have worked, and would have looked more like me trying to desperately move attention off me.

 

The fact that he did post that PM shot when he was so against it ever being used sent up warning bells for me. He was so blatant in a recent game about not even character claiming as town because it was cheap that I couldn't see town Despo using such a ploy to get out of being lynched. It is too important to live as mafia.

 

Actually, whether I was town or mafia I prob would have still reacted in the same manner there. As mafia, yes, I wanted the issue dropped. But as town I would have been just as vehement in stating my displeasure for it, and would have posted my pm once I found out that wasn't against the rules just so the issue could have been dropped. Posting my "pm" wasn't about trying to clear myself, it was actually done out of anger that such a thing would even be allowed.

 

As for your point about my feelings regarding character claims, it's a lot easier to tell someone to shove it when they ask for your character. When multiple people are pressing the role pm thing, and you're being challenged on a specific line, telling them to shove it would just look like scum trying to keep from responding to the challenge.

 

And btw I'm right, people do rely on character claims too much lately, which is why so many mods of late have to get creative in keeping people from being over reliant on that.

 

Also, was the Mafia's QT called "The Aristocrats"? That would have been hilarious as it became a point of contention.

Came up with the Aristocrats thing as somewhat of a towntell incidentally. I would have thought the aristocrats WOULD be scum in a french revolution themed game, I was surprised that we weren't. This way, if one of us flipped and we were shown to not be an aristocrat, I could have acted all flabbergasted.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

your personal pet peeve about character claims and the lengths you go to hammer that into people, to dictate others totally within the rules and spirit of just about every game, is very different from the role pm thing which has always and now I'd guess will always be plain and simple against the rules in actuality or in this case, in spirit.

 

the mods rules are what matter. the mods rules were a little unclear here, and the dead horse flogging went on way too long, and everyone learned a lesson and it was a great episode and Mary and Laura won't disobey pa even when he's gone into town in an unexpected blizzard again and pa will make sure the wood box is full before he does.

 

your personal crusade to change what individual mods allow or don't allow re character claims cause you don't like it is a whole nother thing (srsly dude, town had that vamp game in the bag, woulda helped if they'd been able to believe anything you said but after two major lies, false claim and fudged claim, and complete refusal to provide this one simple piece of info which in that game particularly would have eliminated a whole bunch of WIFOM and at least moved it past the LLL phase argh srsly wth?)

 

um. I mean... good game. in a weird way.

 

fun to watch at the end with the third party play, which I'd only just started to suspect. too bad the well was poisoned and a lot of ppl didn't care anymore, it was still a good play.

 

and...

 

carry on.

[hazelkrs1]

I've never been on any kind of crusade to change what mods allow regarding character claims. The mods choose to deal with it however they may. Some will mix up the roles, not sticking to theme too much, others will disallow character claims if they might break the game, some allow it but frown upon it, some don't account for it at all, and some allow it and laugh because they give the mafia team safe fake claims.

 

My whole crusade has been to try and affect public opinion of the player pool itself, not the mods. Players should realize that it should NEVER come down to what someone's character is that decides whether or not they're lynched or cleared or w/e. I think my play should have spoken for itself that game- NOT the fact that my pm said I was so and so.

 

Incidentally, my feelings about role pm matching are a GOOD bit stronger than my feelings about character claims. Role pm matching goes directly against the spirit of the game and happens to be ineffective, relying on character claims limits your growth as a mafia player and is ineffective. After all, like I have said many times on this topic, it's the easiest thing in the world for a mod to give the scum team safe fake claims. Relying on character claims for any kind of important game decision is extremely foolish imo.

 

And fudged claim? What fudged claim?

[dapianoplay3r]

15 players

 

10 town

1 survivor

4 mafia

 

Town roles

(3)Cop - views town or not town (survivor views as town IMO) 25% chance of getting robbed

(3)Doc - protects from a NK 25% chance of being robbed

(3)Innocent child - PMs mod to be mod confirmed as town. 75% chance of being robbed

(Infinite)Baker - targets two players a night to gift a piece of bread (extends life by one day). Does not need bread and therefore has none so can't be robbed

(3)Vanilla town x 6 - 2 x 50%, 3 x 75%, 1 x 100% chance of being robbed

 

3rd party roles

(2)Profiteer - wins by surviving to end game with either team. Each night tries to steal a peice of bread from another player.

Starts with only 2 pieces of bread

 

Mafia roles

(3)Mafia godfather - views as town 25% chance of getting robbed

(6)Hoarder - Has 6 pieces of bread to start has 200% chance of being robbed

(3)Mafia goon x2 - 1 x 50%, and 1 x 75% chance of being robbed

 

 

Each of you had a line in your character story about guarding your possessions and the like. Those related to your chance of having bread stolen

[nervositee]

 

Each of you had a line in your character story about guarding your possessions and the like. Those related to your chance of having bread stolen

 

 

Huh... didn't connect that at all... clever move, sir! 

[dapianoplay3r]

Yea I didn't feel like it was meed to know info as it was passive and you couldn't alter it in any way