[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[_CLOUD]

##Vote Hoof.

[Andrej]

Vote Count 4.3

 

Hoof (3) - Peace, Tommy, Cloud

Peace (1) - Nolder

 

Not Voting: BFG, Via, Hoof

 

4 to lynch.

[_CLOUD]

Also, every time someone mentions Clarthe I'm reminded of Dragonball Z and the whole fusion thing between Goku and Vegeta, lol.

[peacesells]

Cloud, why are you voting hoof when you've been so sure he is town?

[_CLOUD]

My town read on Hoof was primarily based that Krak would end up being mafia. I have also decided to just follow Tom's advice and keep things simple instead of WIFOMING myself. Anyway I'm going to bed now.

[peacesells]

Via..why aren't you voting yet?

[peacesells]

BFG..please don't vote until we get a vote from Via. 

[Blackhoof]

hmmm Nolder has a point about Peace being absent for the majority of that lynch. 

 

This: 

I didn't say elf was clearly scum. And that stuff was early in the day. Golden going into hiding only makes me more suspicious.

On Turin. I don't think it is unusual for him to attack you as you have a very abrasive and cocky personality. I felt the urge to go full bore on you as well. Difference is I've gotten past it.

And I'm always suspicious of buddying. But I'm suspicious of many things day 1.

I think nolder was more blatant about it. Some could say I'm buddying you since I've repeatedly given town reads in you.

Sick in bed and using my phone. Sorry if this comes out disjointed.

 

this was wayyyy before the Nolder train really started, pagewise at least. the votecount at the time:

 

VoteCount Day01#09

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden
02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof
03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof
04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf
05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof
06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally
07 - Theodora: -> Golden
08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL
09 - Hally
10 - BFG: -> Golden
11 - Via
12 - Nolder: -> Hally
13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace
14 - Turin: -> Tommy

Elf - 1 - Golden
Peace - 1 - Hoof
Golden - 3 - BFG, Peace, Thea
Tommy - 1 - Turin
Hoof - 3 - Cloud, Krak, Tommy
Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou

Not voting: Elf, Hally, Via
8 to lynch.
Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT
Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

I have as many votes as Golden at this point, so Peace might have been confident that I would get myself lynched instead of Golden. 

 

Then this, a bit after Golden's flip:

Nolders refusal to vote one of the larger trains is suspicious.

Nolder, can you explain why you were trying to start a brand new train just before the deadline?

 

I don't blame him for the gap, it all happened very quickly.

 

So... it seems like the "Peace had his vote parked on Golden the whole time" defence is flawed, because by the time Golden was truly in danger and the window for Peace to jump onto Nolder's lynch was wide open, Peace was nowhere to be found. He mentioned he was sick so that was likely the reason (mafia can get sick as well I guess)

 

 

 

And now, to go in the opposite direction:

A suspicion hit me, what if Nolder is lying about being a Doc? No doc at all would make the game a bit more balanced, but perhaps too unbalanced in the mafia's favour, since they could just kill the Innocent Child and Masons at will once they were outed, with only the WIFOM of a possible doc holding them off.

Hmmm something to consider. Would explain Nolder's defence of me, if he was scum. I flip town and then he can try to lead a lynch on Peace or Tom, figuring that whatever he does I will die anyway.

 

Because I really don't have enough suspicions to make a proper case on. Nor would it convince anyone to change course, really. I'm just putting my thoughts out before I die.

[Nolder]

Can everyone post their opinions on each of the remaining players?

 

(I will do the same, but it may be a bit later tonight as I'm out for dinner)

Sorry for the delay, I didn't want to do this until I was in the right state of mind.

I've been very tired lately. My sleep schedule has been hectic and I've just been grabbing an hour here and an hour there the past couple days.

Anyway I am feeling alert right now so here we go.

 

Peace - Scum. I am as sure about this read as I can be.

 

Cloud - Probably Town.

 

Tommy - Probably Scum. Mostly because I see him linked to Peace.

 

Via - Could go either way here tbh. If I'm wrong about Tommy then last mafia is probably her.

 

Nolder - Town Doc.

 

Blackhoof - Probably Town.

[Nolder]

hmmm Nolder has a point about Peace being absent for the majority of that lynch. 

 

This: 

I didn't say elf was clearly scum. And that stuff was early in the day. Golden going into hiding only makes me more suspicious.

 

On Turin. I don't think it is unusual for him to attack you as you have a very abrasive and cocky personality. I felt the urge to go full bore on you as well. Difference is I've gotten past it.

 

And I'm always suspicious of buddying. But I'm suspicious of many things day 1.

 

I think nolder was more blatant about it. Some could say I'm buddying you since I've repeatedly given town reads in you.

 

Sick in bed and using my phone. Sorry if this comes out disjointed.

 

this was wayyyy before the Nolder train really started, pagewise at least. the votecount at the time:

 

VoteCount Day01#09

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL

09 - Hally

10 - BFG: -> Golden

11 - Via

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace

14 - Turin: -> Tommy

 

 

 

Elf - 1 - Golden

Peace - 1 - Hoof

Golden - 3 - BFG, Peace, Thea

Tommy - 1 - Turin

Hoof - 3 - Cloud, Krak, Tommy

Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou

 

Not voting: Elf, Hally, Via

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

I have as many votes as Golden at this point, so Peace might have been confident that I would get myself lynched instead of Golden. 

 

Then this, a bit after Golden's flip:

Nolders refusal to vote one of the larger trains is suspicious.

 

Nolder, can you explain why you were trying to start a brand new train just before the deadline?

 

I don't blame him for the gap, it all happened very quickly.

 

So... it seems like the "Peace had his vote parked on Golden the whole time" defence is flawed, because by the time Golden was truly in danger and the window for Peace to jump onto Nolder's lynch was wide open, Peace was nowhere to be found. He mentioned he was sick so that was likely the reason (mafia can get sick as well I guess)

 

My issue was more so with WHY he voted Golden. 

 

And now, to go in the opposite direction:

A suspicion hit me, what if Nolder is lying about being a Doc? No doc at all would make the game a bit more balanced, but perhaps too unbalanced in the mafia's favour, since they could just kill the Innocent Child and Masons at will once they were outed, with only the WIFOM of a possible doc holding them off.

Maybe that IS the balance to Csarmi. The doctor would start out powered as normal since they have a clear defense target: the innocent child. The fact that the doctor would have to WIFOM between up to 4 targets if all the roles were outed means that as the game goes on the doctor gets less powerful. Whether that is actually balanced or not I'm not sure I'd have to see the full setup but, again, it would be a mistake to assume perfect balance anyway. We might be playing a game that is a little town sided.

 

Hmmm something to consider. Would explain Nolder's defence of me, if he was scum. I flip town and then he can try to lead a lynch on Peace or Tom, figuring that whatever he does I will die anyway.

With a crappy attitude like that you ARE bound to die anyway. Seriously how do you expect the remaining townies, whoever you think they may be, to lynch someone else when you aren't giving them a reason to? Casting suspicion on me is all well and good if that's what you think. I'm not clear and I accept that but if that's what you're going to do then make a case and stop sitting around waiting to be hammered. Which I might add I could do right now if I was scum and wouldn't likely be questioned about it by anyone.

 

Because I really don't have enough suspicions to make a proper case on. Nor would it convince anyone to change course, really. I'm just putting my thoughts out before I die.

[Nolder]

Oh I almost forgot, I found out more info about my trip.

APPARENTLY I am returning on the 23rd not the 22nd.

I expect to get back late and just go to bed so I probably wont post until the 24th.

I really hope there's wifi while I'm on the trip...

[BFG]

Cloud, why are you voting hoof when you've been so sure he is town?

 

This

 

My town read on Hoof was primarily based that Krak would end up being mafia. I have also decided to just follow Tom's advice and keep things simple instead of WIFOMING myself. Anyway I'm going to bed now.

 

Yesterday your reads were Krak, Via then either Peace or Hoof.  Why aren't you voting Via, Tommy (at the least) has indicated that he's willing to potentially vote there.

 

Via..why aren't you voting yet?

 

And this

 

BFG..please don't vote until we get a vote from Via. 

 

:rollseyes:

[_CLOUD]

My current scum reads are Via and Hoof, and it seems like the majority wants to lynch Hoof today so I will go with that.

[_CLOUD]

And isn't it weird that Via still hasn't voted for Hoof while she had him and Krak as her scum reads? I would have expected her to jump on him right at the start of the Day.

[Tommyrod]

The fact Hoof hasn't been hammered yet is promising. 

[_CLOUD]

Agreed.

[Nolder]

Why are you so willing to go along with what the majority wants?

I am a perfect example of why that is a really bad position to take.

Do you have reads? If not, get some. If you do, follow them.

Don't be passive. That's scummy as hell. 

Most of the conversation in this game has revolved around varying degrees of passivity.

That should tell you something about how important it is to make your voice heard.

 

That said, Y U NO VOTE PEACE?!

 

I mean, all of you, really.

Was my case not good enough?

I don't know why we're seeing such different things on this guy.

Can we not agree that not giving reasoning for votes is scummy?

Can we not agree that voting someone when you can make a better case on someone else is scummy?

Can we not agree that overreacting about setup talk is scummy?

 

If any of you agree with any of that then why am I all alone here in presenting Peace as a lynch candidate?

[BFG]

Ok, so what's Hoof done to become mafia over Peace, since yesterday it was one or the other.

 

 

And isn't it weird that Via still hasn't voted for Hoof while she had him and Krak as her scum reads? I would have expected her to jump on him right at the start of the Day.

 

Yes, at the same time, I'm always cautious unless I'm certain on someone (only happened once so far)

 

The fact Hoof hasn't been hammered yet is promising. 

 

Don't think I want to ever play with you when I'm not confirmed Town, even when able to be properly active you would hate my playstyle

[Nolder]

That first half was directed at Cloud.

[BFG]

Why are you so willing to go along with what the majority wants?

I am a perfect example of why that is a really bad position to take.

Do you have reads? If not, get some. If you do, follow them.

Don't be passive. That's scummy as hell. 

Most of the conversation in this game has revolved around varying degrees of passivity.

That should tell you something about how important it is to make your voice heard.

 

That said, Y U NO VOTE PEACE?!

 

I mean, all of you, really.

Was my case not good enough?

I don't know why we're seeing such different things on this guy.

Can we not agree that not giving reasoning for votes is scummy?

Can we not agree that voting someone when you can make a better case on someone else is scummy?

Can we not agree that overreacting about setup talk is scummy?

 

If any of you agree with any of that then why am I all alone here in presenting Peace as a lynch candidate?

 

Am seriously rereading Peace, but it will probably take me till tonight to finish (my friends cooking last night somewhat misjudged the time needed, so didn't get back home till after midnight)

 

My reads are waiting till I have chance to reread Cloud and Peace properly.

[Nolder]

It's always nice posting when people are actually online instead of replying to posts that are hours old.

[BFG]

lol, not for much longer I'm afraid.

[Elaevia]

I wanted to reread day 1, and some of kraks reads, to see if anything was put in a new perspective before voting.

[_CLOUD]

Why are you so willing to go along with what the majority wants?

I am a perfect example of why that is a really bad position to take.

Do you have reads? If not, get some. If you do, follow them.

Don't be passive. That's scummy as hell. 

Most of the conversation in this game has revolved around varying degrees of passivity.

That should tell you something about how important it is to make your voice heard.

 

That said, Y U NO VOTE PEACE?!

 

I mean, all of you, really.

Was my case not good enough?

I don't know why we're seeing such different things on this guy.

Can we not agree that not giving reasoning for votes is scummy?

Can we not agree that voting someone when you can make a better case on someone else is scummy?

Can we not agree that overreacting about setup talk is scummy?

 

If any of you agree with any of that then why am I all alone here in presenting Peace as a lynch candidate?

 

I do have reads and I am following them. Via has done nothing to change my mind about her play, and my reads on Hoof changed after seeing Krak flip town. Hoof's play this Day also hasn't been pro-town; his overreaction after Krak flipped town and the way he has accepted his death don't sit well with me. I'm not voting for Peace because even though his case against you was weak and I didn't like his entire play during Day 2, I don't think he is mafia after re-reading the first 15 pages of the game, especially not with Tom. Their back and forth at the start of the game and the way Peace got annoyed at both Tom and Golden doesn't look staged to me.

[Nolder]

Fair enough but that isn't what you were saying a page ago. You were saying that you were going with Blackhoof because "everyone else" was.

 

 

Also interaction like that doesn't always have to be staged.

I could (but wont) name at least one game where I was very legitimately annoyed with my scummates.

I don't remember if that translated into on thread arguing or not but that's besides the point really.