[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Darthe]

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

Hey Nol, I will send you a link to them and to VendettaStrada.   Trust me dude, it gets hardcore.  Like 100 pages in four days hardcore.

[GoldeneyesND]

Darthe, kindly forward the same to me please! Merry Christmas to everyone

[_CLOUD]

I didn't feel it was enough to vote on, but it was/is enough to poke with a stick, and also get day one going further than merry Xmas posts.

Elf is using the classic "his play was scummy but it wasn't enough to vote him" scum tactic.

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

 

 

@Elf: You don't feel your suspicions of Tom are enough to vote for him, but you don't have any other scum reads.

I'm getting there, but at the time no, what's wrong with that? I don't know people enough to be meta.

 

You want to get Day 1 started but you again aren't willing to vote.

I would call this started, wouldn't you? Oh and look, no vote required as yet

 

You are taking other possible explanations into account, but you claimed that it's better to go with the first case scenario first, and yet again you didn't vote for him.

Er sorry for running a 'ask questions first vote second policy'?

 

Scum prefer to wait until the deadline approaches and do as little as possible until then because it won't tie them to certain reads. Consistency doesn't have to be a good thing either because it shows that you are self-conscious of your own play which scum are more often than town.

You have sound reasoning here on the surface, however, one small flaw. The deadline isn't approaching, as we don't yet have one, in fact I believe we're not even 24 hours in yet? And I'm guessing its probably going to be at least boxing day before we do, so I wouldn't exactly say I've been waiting for until an hour before to hammer someone

 

 

1. There isn't anything wrong with not having scum reads at the start of the game, and I never expected you to have them. What is pinging however is that even though Tom is your only scum read you didn't want to commit and vote for him.

 

2. The game getting started didn't have anything to do with you withholding your vote on Tom. It started after I called you out for it, but I no way believe that you did it on purpose to attract attention to yourself like you are trying to make it appear now.

 

3. At that point you have already pointed out what you found scummy about Tom's play, and he has replied to your accusations. You refused to vote for him because you wanted to hear him talk more while saying that his play has been scummy after you considered every possible option.

 

4. I was talking in general terms, and you are certainly right that you haven't been waiting on the edge of your seat to hammer someone but the rest of my case on you still stands.

 

 

 

I wasn't twisting, just following a possible line of thought and knowledge of possible strategies I might use if I were mafia. I kinda glad cloud disagrees, as it means I still some nice devious thought processes left

 

And the tone, that was night one, this day one, it scumhunting time

You seem a little unsure about yourself. Also, isn't it twisting when you if you read his actions by looking at what YOU might do in his place if you were mafia instead of just taking it at face value?

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

There aren't any easy lynches in this game.

 

Maybe you need to play more games then?

But sorry, easy day one lynch then. I.e. when the are more people, and less information, and more chance of lynching a townie

 

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

I disagree, but this is my first game in several years I think, so maybe I'm rusty.

 

However I still haven't seen you give a good reason for voting for me before you went of on your tangents?

 

 

A) I have quite a few mafia games under my belt already, and I'm guessing certainly more than you have I notice that I haven't explained myself well enough here. English isn't my primary language so sometimes I have trouble conveying what I exactly mean. You are twisting Tom's statements because you are looking at his actions from what you might do in his place, instead of just analyzing his post in a logical way. You could read anything at all behind his statements if you go looking for any possible strategies that you might try, and I personally consider that you trying to twist his statements.

 

B) Notice that she keeps pushing for Peace who was openly following my case on her, but while she is defending herself against me she never considered me to be scum.

 

 

 

## vote peace you still haven't explained why you voted for me? I don't min you voting for me, so much as not giving a reason.

 

Btw, why nolder leelou?

 

And here is the long awaited vote. 

 

Also, notice how she is asking for Leelou's reasoning behind her vote on Nolder after she questioned BFG's vote on Golden. Nolder didn't even check into the game when Leelou made that vote so what reasoning could she have? I think Elf is very self-conscious of her play in this game and didn't want to be seen as only questioning the Innocent Child, which was more important to her than actually figuring out the reasoning behind Leelou's vote on Nolder which was obviously non-existant in the first place. 

 

 

@Nolder's case on me:

 

You are calling me out for being too eager, which is actually true because I have been really looking forward to this game. However, since when is eagerness a scumtell? It only conveys excitement for a game which isn't an exclusive emotion for the mafia own. You don't say anything about the content of my posts themselves which is very scummy, and instead only go on how I'm being eager.

 

You quoted a post of mine where I ask Tom to follow me after he has been promting us to do the same thing the whole game so far, and then you continue that I'm not trying to apply pressure but just want to get her Elf lynched. This isn't true at all because I have actually explained my reasonings for why I'm suspicious about  Elf's play, and by only isolating that post of mine it looks like you are trying to paint events in such a light that would only back up your negative view on me.

 

I was in no way protecting Tom. I only questioned Elf's lack of vote on him after she said that she found him scummy.

 

You calling Peace out for apprently not broadcasting his towniness is bull because his play has been spot on so far. You even admitted the same thing yourself by saying that he is on his town meta. It's also hypocrytical because you accuse me of defending Tom and then proceed to openly defend Peace.

 

I think you have an ulterior motive behind your attack on me.

[_CLOUD]

I'm still at the start of page 10 by the way, and I will comment on the posts that stand out to me as I read them. 

 

So far I have Elf and Nolder as my scum reads.

[_CLOUD]

I've already got the patent for Darth Cloud.

 

 

 

Uh, you kind of are. Hence the vote.

It's not like you're going to make it obvious but placing a vote on me, someone who tends to attract trains early and often, as soon as you enter the game without reason is basically going for the early lynch as far as I'm concerned. Trying to strike up the Hoof joke was the same thing. You're casting a wide net. What I can't tell yet is if you're doing this because you're trying to find a good place to bury your vote or if you're trying to see who would follow you.

 

Now you are just stretching Leelou's vote on you to fit your scum agenda. Nobody besides Leelou even mentioned you until now so your fake paranoid attitude of being lynched is misplaced. It's also good to see that you are trying your best to not mention Elf at all, while she called you calm and reasoned in post #186 which would be her only defense of a player in this game so far.

[_CLOUD]

I disagree with almost everything Turin said on page 10, and it looks like he is making a mountain out of a molehill. 

 

So far I have town reads on Leelou, Peace and Tom.

[BFG]

Battery died before I could get very far.

 

Out till tomorrow and Happy Christmas

[BFG]

*died yesterday

[elffern]

Apologies if this gets less intelligible towards the end, I may have started drinking

 

 

I didn't feel it was enough to vote on, but it was/is enough to poke with a stick, and also get day one going further than merry Xmas posts.

Elf is using the classic "his play was scummy but it wasn't enough to vote him" scum tactic.

 

It was a ping, as opposed to a scum vibe. I see nothing wrong not voting in that case. Also voting off the fact of what he said in one post would have been the similar if not the same as what I would have been voting him for. That would be hypocritical and patently ridiculous. Its pretty simple logic to follow. That is why I brought it up on day one in my first post, to gain more information.

 

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

Tbh I'm not especially fond of omgusing , it smacks of emotional play, and I feel that reacting emotionally is not best for the town, and not objective. So yes, I'll give there was some not wanting to omgus vote you. However if I had any strong scum vibes that I didn't think were to do with voting me I would have still voted you. I'm still going over it, but currently my opinion is that you're town, and you have made cogent and well formed arguments for the most part, even if they are wrong. However, may I note that I'm still waiting for a proper explanation from peace, pretty much all his play and posts have been nigh on incomprehensible and powered by emotion rather than logic. It may be usual for peace but its not helpful, and as long as he's not being helpful I will continue my vote on him. It seems to me like he is flailing scumily, and the not answering and emotional playing vibe scummily for me. I'm not shifting attention, or not with malice aforethought at any rate. I'm still not sure on toddy, but I'm starting to think that its more his style than a scum play. Still needs more info. And I'm always this self conscious because I have to be, so its not surprising it extends to mafia games.

 

 

 

 

 

@Elf: You don't feel your suspicions of Tom are enough to vote for him, but you don't have any other scum reads.

I'm getting there, but at the time no, what's wrong with that? I don't know people enough to be meta.

 

You want to get Day 1 started but you again aren't willing to vote.

I would call this started, wouldn't you? Oh and look, no vote required as yet

 

You are taking other possible explanations into account, but you claimed that it's better to go with the first case scenario first, and yet again you didn't vote for him.

Er sorry for running a 'ask questions first vote second policy'?

 

Scum prefer to wait until the deadline approaches and do as little as possible until then because it won't tie them to certain reads. Consistency doesn't have to be a good thing either because it shows that you are self-conscious of your own play which scum are more often than town.

You have sound reasoning here on the surface, however, one small flaw. The deadline isn't approaching, as we don't yet have one, in fact I believe we're not even 24 hours in yet? And I'm guessing its probably going to be at least boxing day before we do, so I wouldn't exactly say I've been waiting for until an hour before to hammer someone

 

 

1. There isn't anything wrong with not having scum reads at the start of the game, and I never expected you to have them. What is pinging however is that even though Tom is your only scum read you didn't want to commit and vote for him.

 

2. The game getting started didn't have anything to do with you withholding your vote on Tom. It started after I called you out for it, but I no way believe that you did it on purpose to attract attention to yourself like you are trying to make it appear now.

 

3. At that point you have already pointed out what you found scummy about Tom's play, and he has replied to your accusations. You refused to vote for him because you wanted to hear him talk more while saying that his play has been scummy after you considered every possible option.

 

4. I was talking in general terms, and you are certainly right that you haven't been waiting on the edge of your seat to hammer someone but the rest of my case on you still stands.

 

1) I at no point referred to toddy as a 'scum read', please see above rebuttals for why I didn't/am not voting

 

2) er what? Yes withholding my vote had nothing to do with getting the game started.. it wasn't even mentioned in my first post to toddy. And er I'm not trying to attract attention? I'm not sure entirely what you're getting at but you seem to be trying to put words in my mouth

 

3)now your just stating what happened? and I called it a ping on a single post if I recall, which I see as a good reason to question further. More than one ping, or scum vibes would have lead to a vote, so I don't see what the problem you have with me not voting right off the bat is.

 

4)but that is your case? I hadn't voted in the first few hours of play and for some reason this gets your ire up.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't twisting, just following a possible line of thought and knowledge of possible strategies I might use if I were mafia. I kinda glad cloud disagrees, as it means I still some nice devious thought processes left

 

And the tone, that was night one, this day one, it scumhunting time

You seem a little unsure about yourself. Also, isn't it twisting when you if you read his actions by looking at what YOU might do in his place if you were mafia instead of just taking it at face value?

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

There aren't any easy lynches in this game.

 

Maybe you need to play more games then?

But sorry, easy day one lynch then. I.e. when the are more people, and less information, and more chance of lynching a townie

 

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

I disagree, but this is my first game in several years I think, so maybe I'm rusty.

 

However I still haven't seen you give a good reason for voting for me before you went of on your tangents?

 

 

A) I have quite a few mafia games under my belt already, and I'm guessing certainly more than you have I notice that I haven't explained myself well enough here. English isn't my primary language so sometimes I have trouble conveying what I exactly mean. You are twisting Tom's statements because you are looking at his actions from what you might do in his place, instead of just analyzing his post in a logical way. You could read anything at all behind his statements if you go looking for any possible strategies that you might try, and I personally consider that you trying to twist his statements.

 

B) Notice that she keeps pushing for Peace who was openly following my case on her, but while she is defending herself against me she never considered me to be scum.

 

 A. You may have and then again you may not have. But I would hazard a educated guess that is closer than you think. I see nothing wrong with logical extrapolation, and what I would do is follow logic. However like I said I considered that there could be various other reasons and paths to take, and I was just following the one that pinged

 

B. peace isn't openly following me, he is just disagreeing with my view on what constitutes town behaviour. The problem in fact is that he isn't. And the reason why I'm not currently sold on you being scum is that while I think you are wrong and being misguided, I don't have to think you are scum because of that.

 

 

 

## vote peace you still haven't explained why you voted for me? I don't min you voting for me, so much as not giving a reason.

 

Btw, why nolder leelou?

 

And here is the long awaited vote. 

 

Also, notice how she is asking for Leelou's reasoning behind her vote on Nolder after she questioned BFG's vote on Golden. Nolder didn't even check into the game when Leelou made that vote so what reasoning could she have? I think Elf is very self-conscious of her play in this game and didn't want to be seen as only questioning the Innocent Child, which was more important to her than actually figuring out the reasoning behind Leelou's vote on Nolder which was obviously non-existant in the first place.

 

Indeed what reason could she have? Hence why I asked. She wasn't pushing it, and is was probably random first day vote just to be voting. Hence why I left it so long to ask, and to see what nolder did. And as to bfg, I had a theory it was wrong. I thought that the confirmed innocent voting for someone and not giving reason like that, might mean there was some reason that wasn't random voting. I was wrong, so meh. In fact I thought she might still have a PR for a short while until she posted again, which would make it make more sense for her to know something and have a reason for voting. I had this big long post and then she posted T_T

 

 

@Nolder's case on me:

 

You are calling me out for being too eager, which is actually true because I have been really looking forward to this game. However, since when is eagerness a scumtell? It only conveys excitement for a game which isn't an exclusive emotion for the mafia own. You don't say anything about the content of my posts themselves which is very scummy, and instead only go on how I'm being eager.

 

You quoted a post of mine where I ask Tom to follow me after he has been promting us to do the same thing the whole game so far, and then you continue that I'm not trying to apply pressure but just want to get her Elf lynched. This isn't true at all because I have actually explained my reasonings for why I'm suspicious about  Elf's play, and by only isolating that post of mine it looks like you are trying to paint events in such a light that would only back up your negative view on me.

 

I was in no way protecting Tom. I only questioned Elf's lack of vote on him after she said that she found him scummy.

 

You calling Peace out for apprently not broadcasting his towniness is bull because his play has been spot on so far. You even admitted the same thing yourself by saying that he is on his town meta. It's also hypocrytical because you accuse me of defending Tom and then proceed to openly defend Peace.

 

I think you have an ulterior motive behind your attack on me.

I agree with most of the first half of this. I don't think peace's play can be described as spot on by any stretch of any imagination, and I don't think nolder has an ulterior motive, but it is a possibly to consider, but this does seem sorta like a omgus reponse to his argument .

 

 

So in conclusion, my read on cloud, probably town, tunnelling a little bit because my methods differ

Peace - still has questions to answer

Toddy - town with aggressive play style

Nolder - there is an element of me feeling paranoid because he agrees with me but heh further info need

Leelou - no idea

 

However we haven't heard much from golden, a short recap, and dismissal of the vote on him, could be mafia laying low, or just because it's xmas

[Krakalakachkn]

Merry Christmas Chex Mix everyone!

[peacesells]

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

 

You are contradicting the most "logical" process in the game for establishing town behavior.  Giving reads.  You discredit Tommy for giving reads.  Like I said, I've given you my reason.  You chose to ignore it.  In my emotional opinion your logic has failed.

 

(I'm really hoping you can see the sarcasm...when it's being obviously pointed out to you.)

 

 

Let's extrapolate a bit more. 

 

You FOS Tommy for giving his reads.

 

Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior.

 

You never question Nolder on this?

 

Logically that does not add up. 

 

Do you wish to check your logic?

[peacesells]

Elf and Nolder so far are at the top of my scum list.  In case that isn't obvious.

 

We need a few more players though.

 

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Krakalakachkn]

To gage scummymess from an opening post and asking others to do so just seems like your trying to get a lynch going on very thin grounds, while having an excuse if they come up innocent, also you haven't given the same analysis you asked for until now, kinda like so later if anyone had said something that started a lynch train, you can point to them and say it was their idea.

 

And why golden bfg?

 

All is valid.

 

I disagree with every point in your post, Elf.

 

Why aren't you voting for Tom if you find him so scummy?

 

The classic "If you find someone scummy and aren't actively voting for them then you're obviscum."  I disagree strongly with this line of reasoning.

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 

In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.

 

##vote Elf

 

 

God it's like the perfect hybrid of Cloud and Darthe.  It's….Clarthe.

 

 

 

##vote elf

So someone said you start every game with "yo" which means you're aware of your own meta which means you're probably not a very adept player (no offense intended) since you have a gimmick to cover yourself. Why are you me-too-ing Cloud's vote without any prior commentary or justification? If anyone has the right to be second in line here, it's me. Pls explain

 

 

Probably because I'm not a very adept player.  Really, why are you asking questions you've already answered for yourself?

 

 

zing!

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

It's legitimate info that we can potentially glean something from.  

 

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

 

It's not very town like either

 

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

 

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)

-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off

-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

 

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

 

Follow me to the promised land

Attempt to lead town denied...

Get with the program, I already denied him N0. :-)

 

 

She said No on N0.

 

Seriuosly though, I can't tell if Tommy has just rubbed Turin the complete wrong way or if Turin is scum.  I think it shall become clear soon.

 

100% caught up now and don't like Cloud's play at all so far.

He seems less like someone who is posturing for information and more like someone actually trying to achieve a lynch.

Our Day just started, I don't think it would be wise to end it just yet. He is my top suspect for a scum at the moment.

 

Cloud is coming out hot and he better be careful or he'll get burned.

 

 

 

*yawn*

 

##vote Nol

Are you going to sit in my lap too? ;)

I think I need to sit in Krak's lap this game...

 

*sits in Krak's lap*

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please. 

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going  all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me. 

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about? 

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

 

Then quit complaining and get your lead on.

 

 

We're voting for each other but what he's said makes sense if I turn my brain 25 degrees. So maybe he thinks he's right and I think I'm right and this is some hot town on town action. I'll let him prove his alignment to me through scumhunting but as it stands it looks like he's tunneling on me for some reason... which I do not qualify as scumhunting. QED.

 

If I'm wrong on both of ya then it's no big deal -- I'll adjust after a re-read. Every interaction is a useful interaction as far as solving the game goes. Even if I am way off, the way people respond to it will be telling later in the game

 

I don't disagree with anything you say here.  And I think his vote on you has a lot of OMGUS influencing it.  But your comments in this quote do not explain that statement you made.

 

You've basically pigeon holed him into only finding scum or else he is scum.  If he is town, then he is uninformed and may lead a town lynch.  Way did you make a statement that only gives one option?

 

If you meant you want to see him scumhunting, then why didn't you just say that?

 

 

Good thing we're smarter than he is.

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

This is the most reasonable approach to Day 1.

Why?

Pressuring people, even if you don't actually find them scummy, to see what they say is pretty much essential for a successful Day 1.

 

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 
In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.
 
##vote Elf

Way way too eager.

Explain why it is too eager?

As I said before he seems to be edging towards a lynch and not just putting pressure.
Instead the usual "I think X is scummy so vote: you" he's actually making a pretty wordy case and trying to get people to follow him. That's not normal Day 1 behavior. To me it smacks of some sort of blitz tactic.
 

 

 

I'm not protecting you.

Yeah, you kind of were.

Or, he was pointing out an issue and the defense was secondary. This is actually good stuff because it can be crossed referenced later in the game. Even if he were defending..why discourage the behavior?

You don't defend people who's alignment you aren't sure of.
Especially not this early. It either means you're a townie flying blind or you're a scum who is buddying.
If people are getting pressure it's usually a good idea to let them speak for themselves before commenting.
This isn't any different than what I was telling BFG.

 

Actively engaging in scum hunting requires a certain degree of defending of other players, or rather of calling out a play that inadvertently defends their attacker.  I understand how a lot of people read that as a scum tell, yet I have many a time have called out a player's bullshit only to have someone accuse me of defending that player's target.

 

Did I put that right?  I think I did.  Defending is sometimes necessary only if it isn't a defensive tunneling.  Then it's scummy.  Or you're a cop with a viewing.

 

 

 

Also Clarthe is uberscummy.

 

##Cloud

[peacesells]

clarthe....lol

[Darthe]

Darth Clark comes to mind.

[elffern]

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do. It put you out there to be read. Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action. He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

You are contradicting the most "logical" process in the game for establishing town behavior. Giving reads. You discredit Tommy for giving reads. Like I said, I've given you my reason. You chose to ignore it. In my emotional opinion your logic has failed.

 

(I'm really hoping you can see the sarcasm...when it's being obviously pointed out to you.)

 

 

Let's extrapolate a bit more.

 

You FOS Tommy for giving his reads.

 

Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior.

 

You never question Nolder on this?

 

 

Also as regards to

Logically that does not add up.

 

Do you wish to check your logic?

 

No I don't feel any need to check mine. Yours however, to me seems more holey than the pope doing what bears do in the woods. ( <3 the sarcasm btw ) ok, so lets do logic math:

 

[...]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do. It put you out there to be read. Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action. He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

I disagree, but this is my first game in several years I think, so maybe I'm rusty.

 

However I still haven't seen you give a good reason for voting for me before you went of on your tangents?

 

1. Ive actually already replied to what you said, just FYI. See above.

 

2."contradicting the most logical" process in the game for establishing town behaviour. Giving reads." - er no. Getting reads is a fine, normal and necessary part of playing. What I disagree with is trying to encourage early analysis off one post, and indeed the first post. Toddy didn't actually give reads until later. It was that he was asking others to do it. Off one post. The very first hi post.

Imo the majority of information garnered will be pure guesswork and meta stuff. But if done especially en masse, it lets the scum see who its possible to lynch without needing as much of a push.

Using first post analysis in conjunction with analysis of other posts. That's fine.

 

C. No I don't FOS toddy for giving reads. Its for asking for them, based on the first single post.

 

4. "Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior."

-i. Nolder was building a case from many posts.

-ii. I don't see the need to say I disagree with the same thing twice. Also I just looked through holders posts and I can't actually see where he says anything like that, in response to what I said at any rate

 

5. Kinda hard to question someone on something they haven't said, point me to a relevant quote and ill see what I can do.

 

F. "Like I said, I've given you my reason. You chose to ignore it. "

actually you just ignored me when I asked for more information, here

 

[...]

 

Why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?

This is the closest you came to actually saying why. Do you agree with everything cloud said? Or just something's? And why do you believe them?

[...]

 

There is more to that post, but that the salient details.

 

You seem intent on wilfully misinterpreting what I say, and also are you saying that extrapolation is the reason why you voted?

[Nolder]

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

Hey Nol, I will send you a link to them and to VendettaStrada.   Trust me dude, it gets hardcore.  Like 100 pages in four days hardcore.

When you do, please briefly describe each community (as in the point of the forum, this one would be wheel of time) and tell me what the mafia community is like there.

I ask because I'm not sure I can handle something like 100 pages in four days right now. Too much going on with the holidays.

 

 

I didn't feel it was enough to vote on, but it was/is enough to poke with a stick, and also get day one going further than merry Xmas posts.

Elf is using the classic "his play was scummy but it wasn't enough to vote him" scum tactic.

 

Could just be more of the same attacks we've seen from Cloud but this was a fair observation.

I don't know that I would go so far as to call it a "classic scum tactic" but it is absolutely something to note later in the game I think.

 

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

This is much less reasonable.

We want to try to include everyone on Day 1 and not let anyone slip under the radar so we have stuff to analyze as the game goes on.

Not only that, but I think an explanation was absolutely called for.

Just because Elf isn't concentrating solely on defending from your accusations does not mean he (she?) is trying to shift attention.

This further goes to show me that you think Elf SHOULD be the center of attention. Stop tunneling and address the game at large.

 

 

1. There isn't anything wrong with not having scum reads at the start of the game, and I never expected you to have them. What is pinging however is that even though Tom is your only scum read you didn't want to commit and vote for him.

That's not unusual for Day 1.

 

@Nolder's case on me:

 

You are calling me out for being too eager, which is actually true because I have been really looking forward to this game. However, since when is eagerness a scumtell? It only conveys excitement for a game which isn't an exclusive emotion for the mafia own. You don't say anything about the content of my posts themselves which is very scummy, and instead only go on how I'm being eager.

Since when is eagerness to lynch a scumtell? Always.

The town has two guaranteed powers. The ability to talk and reason things out during the day, and the ability to vote to lynch someone.

Rushing through the game at any point is ill advised at best. At worst it can be a complete disaster.

Of course I'm someone who is impatient and I hate when we wait until the deadlines but there is absolutely a happy medium in there somewhere.

Trying to rush the day to me seems scummy. I don't need to dig deeper into your posts than that because really...you have nothing.

And I'm not faulting you for that exactly. The game has only been going for how many hours? And this is a game which builds from nothing. That's why we joke around and throw some silly votes. We start attacking each other for those silly accusations knowing that they will lead to reactions and more solid reads and cases. If you are town and you really think you have a scum pegged on Day 1 you need to make a damn good case and so far all I've seen is normal day 1 stuff from Elf. You wanna convince me to lynch Elf? Give them a noose to hang themselves with, aka give it more time. We have no deadline so there is zero need to rush a lynch at this time.

 

You quoted a post of mine where I ask Tom to follow me after he has been promting us to do the same thing the whole game so far, and then you continue that I'm not trying to apply pressure but just want to get her Elf lynched. This isn't true at all because I have actually explained my reasonings for why I'm suspicious about  Elf's play, and by only isolating that post of mine it looks like you are trying to paint events in such a light that would only back up your negative view on me.

Again, that is exactly what seems off to me.

You're so serious about lynching Elf, so convinced.

Why are you so sure on Day 1?

 

I was in no way protecting Tom. I only questioned Elf's lack of vote on him after she said that she found him scummy.

Fine. I'm just telling you how it looked from my POV though.

 

You calling Peace out for apprently not broadcasting his towniness is bull because his play has been spot on so far. You even admitted the same thing yourself by saying that he is on his town meta. It's also hypocrytical because you accuse me of defending Tom and then proceed to openly defend Peace.

Peace is well aware of his meta I think which means a meta read goes right out the window.

Furthermore just because someone is "on their town meta" does not mean they can do no wrong.

Not explaining a vote is wrong. It always has been and it always will be. (Pssst, Wombat, DIAF)

And no I didn't defend Peace. Tom asked what our thoughts were and I answered.

You went out of your way to comment where you weren't asked.

 

I think you have an ulterior motive behind your attack on me.

I think you think you can't be wrong and so any criticism of your moves or tactics is chalked up to scum attacking you.

You're going to be the guy that says half the game is scum and that you've got it all figured out, calling it now.

 

Now you are just stretching Leelou's vote on you to fit your scum agenda. Nobody besides Leelou even mentioned you until now so your fake paranoid attitude of being lynched is misplaced. It's also good to see that you are trying your best to not mention Elf at all, while she called you calm and reasoned in post #186 which would be her only defense of a player in this game so far.

What agenda is that again? I thought my agenda was attacking you not Leelou.

Or, could it be? No...could it be that just maybe I felt like addressing her vote on me because it would be suspicious not to?

Well damned if I do damned if I don't, as usual.

 

And lol at fake paranoia. I know you don't play on JN but feel free to ask around how many times I've been lynched on a Wednesday there.

Spoiler: too many times.

 

 

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

 

You are contradicting the most "logical" process in the game for establishing town behavior.  Giving reads.  You discredit Tommy for giving reads.  Like I said, I've given you my reason.  You chose to ignore it.  In my emotional opinion your logic has failed.

 

(I'm really hoping you can see the sarcasm...when it's being obviously pointed out to you.)

 

 

Let's extrapolate a bit more. 

 

You FOS Tommy for giving his reads.

 

Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior.

 

You never question Nolder on this?

 

Logically that does not add up. 

 

Do you wish to check your logic?

 

Good post.

 

Actively engaging in scum hunting requires a certain degree of defending of other players, or rather of calling out a play that inadvertently defends their attacker.  I understand how a lot of people read that as a scum tell, yet I have many a time have called out a player's bullshit only to have someone accuse me of defending that player's target.

 

Did I put that right?  I think I did.  Defending is sometimes necessary only if it isn't a defensive tunneling.  Then it's scummy.  Or you're a cop with a viewing.

That's true. Especially on Day 1.

I'll tone back the lecturing people on defending others thing for now although I don't think they did it as scumhunting tbh.

[csarmi]

Wf = madhouse from what I hear

Vendetta Strada: looks very fun... and maffia-based forum, we're in a game now in room 2, feel free to observe. Some great fun happening all over the forums now with players mixing up - be part of it.

[peacesells]

when I am scum I purposefully do not defend others. 

[Krakalakachkn]

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

I'll remember this later when you ask someone to explain a vote on you.

[Krakalakachkn]

I also don't like how you're making Elf out to be the center of attention.  

As if asking MetaWorld Peace for a reason on voting her is unreasonable.

 

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary.

 

Wut?

 

 

Dude, you've essentially been advocating that Elf stop playing mafia.  If she can't question reads, votes, and make up her own mind, what do you expect from her?

 

 

 

[elffern]

I can drink wine! ^^^

[peacesells]

 

I also don't like how you're making Elf out to be the center of attention.  

As if asking MetaWorld Peace for a reason on voting her is unreasonable.

 

It's not...but I had answered and she either didn't see it or ignored it.

 

Cloud has taken some strange tangents though in his later casing. 

[elffern]

Technically it wasn't an answer? I didn't ignore it, I've rebought it up twice now and am still waiting for your answer to my further questions. Again.