Doctor Who

[Cybertrolloc]

Mr Ares, now that's what I interpret underwhelming to mean whereas Day of the Doctor was only mildly disappointing in parts :)

 

Can't really fault production on this one. There's some good stuff in there and a quite good story (although how it's plotted and how the pieces are cut together have some big problems), just the kind of story that's really hard to do in a way that won't make all the kids cry and have parents on the phone to the bbc. Sure Who is king of getting adult themes into an ok for the kids show, but it's also hit and miss when it does so: too big a gamble that didn't pay off.

 

I'm not up on what Who calls classic canon (seen some bits of 1-4, just clips of the rest if that even). As far as newWho and its canon (probably needs scare quotes): think I caught all the call-outs, quick explanations and subtleties and don't think it quite works. Would have hoped for a better end to Smith's run or at least clean up more dangling plot off-screen because I don't think it fits neatly enough together. It's not wholly terrible of course.

[Lilbaz]

Because it now makes smith the 13th doctor (tennant had a regen but didn't change).

 

Makes it a bit more interesting for the xmas special. To find out how capaldi comes in as time lords are only meant to be able to regen 12 times.

Nailed it!

[Moon Sedai]

Kinda saw that whole Amy pond thing coming. 

[Senexx]

 

"Do you know how to fly this thing?"

 

So disappointing.  It seems to mark a return to the original Who which I hated.  The new Who "was" great! Stories up until arguably this last season actually fitted together or had a lantern hung on them.  I'm not interested in the comedy version at all.

 

 

 

[Mr Ares]

Mr Ares, now that's what I interpret underwhelming to mean whereas Day of the Doctor was only mildly disappointing in parts :)

Underwhelming and mildly disappointing are close enough terms to both accurately reflect my problems with Day of the Doctor, which had much to recommend it despite some story faults (that could actually have been fixed with only minor changes, namely ditch the use of the memory gas to fix the Zygon plotline and have the Doctors carry out the destruction of Gallifrey together, recognising that despite how tragic it was it had to be done). Disastrous is a better term for this. Padded, poorly thought through, poorly characterised, possessed of big ideas it's unwilling to think through, willing to use narration to tell us the story rather than show it. All the worst hallmarks of the Moffat era. A disembodied cyber head made for a better characterised companion than Clara. Unfortunately, the episode ended with Mat Smith regenerating into Peter Capaldi rather than Steven Moffat regenerating into Mark Gatiss or Toby Whithouse. (Not that I mind having Capaldi as the Doctor - but the problems of the era won't be solved by replacing the actor, but by replacing the showrunner.)

[Senexx]

Those are probably fair points but I never noticed.  Day of the Doctor was certainly better than Time of the Doctor.

[Lilbaz]

think the whole how do you fly this thing means the doctor doesn't remember who he is. The new regenerations have wiped his memory. Which will turn the tables as clara will be the one walking him through everything and a quest to restore his memories. Opens up a lot of possibilities.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

he's always disoriented after regen nowadays. I think it was just a joke. I don't think clara will last that long. she doesn't fit into ponds minis that well.

[Zhon]

 

think the whole how do you fly this thing means the doctor doesn't remember who he is. The new regenerations have wiped his memory. Which will turn the tables as clara will be the one walking him through everything and a quest to restore his memories. Opens up a lot of possibilities.

 

I think it's only a partial memory loss, more a side effect of having his regenerations reset rather than the Doctor himself being completely reset.  He probably remembers his incarnations and companions, at the very least, since he never asked Clara "who are you?" after regenerating.  Restarting a Time Lord has never truly been done before (resurrecting the Master wasn't a restart/reset so don't even try that), so who knows what other side effects there might be.  I see shenanigans coming in the new season, and I look forward to them.

[Xthrax]

Zhon maybe right. Even the slightest thing might cause something to trigger an after effect 'cause of regen. Remember the 8th? He had repeated 'bouts of amnesia after an anaesthetic was administered. So the memory lapse might just be temporary. The new cycle of regen did take some time to kick in. He did most of the regen in the bell tower, only the face change occurred later. 

On another note I would have like to see Clara's reaction to the new Doctor. It just left her looking shocked. And how was Clara so knowledgeable about aspects of regen. Most companions were shocked to see him regen and have a new face. Clara somehow just knew that his face would change. 

Anyway looking forward to the new season. 'Aug 2014

[Zhon]

On another note I would have like to see Clara's reaction to the new Doctor. It just left her looking shocked. And how was Clara so knowledgeable about aspects of regen. Most companions were shocked to see him regen and have a new face. Clara somehow just knew that his face would change.

 

Name of the Doctor, that's how.  She's saved him time and again throughout all of his regenerations thanks to what originally happened at Trenzilor.  That event may have been changed thanks to Galifrey's intervention, but Clara's a time traveler so she's not about to forget it.

 

(the events in Name of the Doctor are also how she can snap the TARDIS shut now)

[Thorum]

I didn`t really like how the whole episode was about regeneration not being possible anymore, but at the end it`s just " oh well, the rules don`t apply to me", after which he happily regenerates...

 

Curious to see this older doctor who at work, though

[Zhon]

I didn`t really like how the whole episode was about regeneration not being possible anymore, but at the end it`s just " oh well, the rules don`t apply to me", after which he happily regenerates...

He said that he couldn't regenerate anymore because he was out of energy and his fate was sealed.  But Gallifrey changed that.  It wasn't "this is the rule, but now it doesn't apply to me", it was more like "This is how it will end-  oh wait!  They just gave me a jump start!  I'm BAAAAACK!"

[Lilbaz]

So the time lords now know this is the right universe (unless they throw out regens as a past time).

 

So will probably Open a few storylines.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it was this is the rule and this is how we're wriggling out of it cause we never thought the show would last this long when we capped regens at 12.

 

which was fine, they had to do something.

 

but... wait, what? 10th was now 11th and 12th cause 9nth was overlooked and 12th was 13th making the fall of the 11th a misnomer and all I'm left wondering is which of them destroyed Vulcan and rewrote history?

[SinisterDeath]

Destroyed Vulcan? Is this from the old series?

[Zhon]

but... wait, what? 10th was now 11th and 12th cause 9nth was overlooked and 12th was 13th making the fall of the 11th a misnomer and all I'm left wondering is which of them destroyed Vulcan and rewrote history?

 

First doctor; no regeneration

Second doctor; 1st regeneration

Third doctor; 2nd regeneration

Fourth doctor; 3rd regeneration

etc.

 

Eighth doctor; 7th regeneration

War doctor; 8th regeneration

Ninth doctor; 9th regeneration

Tenth doctor; 10th and 11th regenerations

Eleventh doctor; 12th regeneration  and would have died here without Gallifrey re-writing time and giving the Doctor a new set of regenerations.

 

12 regenerations, 12 bodies.  Would have been 13 bodies but the tenth doctor had a "hand" in preventing that.  There was no mistake or misnomer unless the 1st doctor regenerated off-screen before the show ever began.

 

 

And now, the Twelfth doctor is the 1st regeneration of the new cycle (aka the 13th regeneration).

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

the war doctor was the ninth doctor.

 

12 regenerations, 13 lives.

[Zhon]

the war doctor was the ninth doctor.

 

12 regenerations, 13 lives.

I counted David Tennant as just one life.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

the war doctor was the ninth doctor.

12 regenerations, 13 lives.

 

I counted David Tennant as just one life.

he had two. they just looked the same.

 

we'd all counted that as one life, I think, until this epi.

 

now we know it counted as two of the time lords given 13.

 

bah.

[SinisterDeath]

How long was Tennant's '2nd' life? I coulda swore that one was 'shorter' than most?

[Zhon]

 

 

the war doctor was the ninth doctor.

12 regenerations, 13 lives.

I counted David Tennant as just one life.

he had two. they just looked the same.

 

we'd all counted that as one life, I think, until this epi.

 

now we know it counted as two of the time lords given 13.

 

bah.

 

Two regenerations, but still one life unless you want to count the meta-crisis Doctor as a separate life.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

moffat did

[Xthrax]

Actually I think we are supposed to consider the Meta-Crisis as one, leaving Matt's doctor-the 13th. But do we still officially call his doctor the 13th from now on or still 11th? And so that makes Capaldi's doctor what?-14th, or 12th acc. to previous count or 1st doctor of new regen cycle.

I think the Meta-Crisis doctor's life was short in viewing, but he was left back in Pete's world with Rose. And since he couldn't regenerate and had only 1 heart, he could have spent a natural life span of a normal person living with Rose.

[Mr Ares]

Destroyed Vulcan? Is this from the old series?

No, it's a reference to Star Trek - specifically, the awful, awful films excreted by Jar Jar Abrams.

 

Actually I think we are supposed to consider the Meta-Crisis as one, leaving Matt's doctor-the 13th. But do we still officially call his doctor the 13th from now on or still 11th? And so that makes Capaldi's doctor what?-14th, or 12th acc. to previous count or 1st doctor of new regen cycle.

I think the Meta-Crisis doctor's life was short in viewing, but he was left back in Pete's world with Rose. And since he couldn't regenerate and had only 1 heart, he could have spent a natural life span of a normal person living with Rose.

Matt Smith's Doctor is the Eleventh Doctor - John Hurt's incarnation didn't go by the name Doctor, and the meta-crisis used up a regeneration but that Doctor isn't counted in the order. Therefore, Capaldi is the Twelfth Doctor, by virtue of being the twelfth incarnation to use the name Doctor. It all makes perfect sense and is in no way a gimmick thrown in by Moffat to allow him to be the one who solved the regeneration issue as a sop to his own ego.