[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[Andrej]

Yea Tina is not a roleblocker and sent no kill tonight.

 

You have no way of definitively saying that. Also, your 'sent no NK' is again seeming to reference a 2nd scum team. It is common knowledge here that the mafia team has a collective kill ability, so even if you jailed one of them it wouldn't necessarily block them entirely.

 

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

I disagree. I actually think Rags holstered intentionally so that the Mafia would shoot themselves in an attempt to save themselves from his kill ability. Sort of genius if it had worked out properly.

[peacesells]

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

Meh..there are many scenarios to cover a holster.  For instance, Rags protected someone who was not targeted or scum.  Doesn't cpr doc die in that situation?

 

Tina could be a scum submitter if you jailed her and Rags protected the wrong player.  Therefore, only 1 kill.

 

I'm not saying I come close to believing the theory I just outlined.  I'm saying that your theory has holes.

[csarmi]

 

Yea Tina is not a roleblocker and sent no kill tonight.

 

You have no way of definitively saying that. Also, your 'sent no NK' is again seeming to reference a 2nd scum team. It is common knowledge here that the mafia team has a collective kill ability, so even if you jailed one of them it wouldn't necessarily block them entirely.

 

Duh-oh? If she sent a NK tonight, e wouldn't have seen any? Unless you think Rags killed himself?

 

 

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

I disagree. I actually think Rags holstered intentionally so that the Mafia would shoot themselves in an attempt to save themselves from his kill ability. Sort of genius if it had worked out properly.

 

Explain the genius behind that.

Why would he holster when there seems to be no downside to his action. Any target other than Peace, Despo, Tina and Me could only yield a positive result and no drawbacks?

Even shooting me would make a lot of sense from his PoV.

[csarmi]

 

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

Meh..there are many scenarios to cover a holster.  For instance, Rags protected someone who was not targeted or scum.  Doesn't cpr doc die in that situation?

 

Tina could be a scum submitter if you jailed her and Rags protected the wrong player.  Therefore, only 1 kill.

 

I'm not saying I come close to believing the theory I just outlined.  I'm saying that your theory has holes.

 

Nope, CPR doc is simply a Vig who doesn't kill his target if he's already targeted for a NK. I think you should readup the role and consider the situation again.

[csarmi]

I understand that my theories don't have a high market value at this point, but I don't think I'm wrong here.

[Andrej]

 

 

Yea Tina is not a roleblocker and sent no kill tonight.

 

You have no way of definitively saying that. Also, your 'sent no NK' is again seeming to reference a 2nd scum team. It is common knowledge here that the mafia team has a collective kill ability, so even if you jailed one of them it wouldn't necessarily block them entirely.

 

Duh-oh? If she sent a NK tonight, e wouldn't have seen any? Unless you think Rags killed himself?

 

 

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

I disagree. I actually think Rags holstered intentionally so that the Mafia would shoot themselves in an attempt to save themselves from his kill ability. Sort of genius if it had worked out properly.

 

Explain the genius behind that.

Why would he holster when there seems to be no downside to his action. Any target other than Peace, Despo, Tina and Me could only yield a positive result and no drawbacks?

Even shooting me would make a lot of sense from his PoV.

 

1. What?? No, I don't think Rags killed himself. I really don't understand what you're trying to express there though.

 

2. I agree that shooting you would make sense from his POV. I also think that was the obvious choice, which is why he didn't make it. Rags come across to me as a very crafty player. I could see him trying to WIFOM the scum team by holstering his ability after making them jumpy about who he was going to shoot so that they'd target themselves in order to reverse his ability. The lack of 2 NKs last night is what gives me this impression.

[csarmi]

I'll guide you through it step by step :D

 

(1) I jailed Tina. Rags died. You agree that Conclusion: Tina didn't kill Rags.

(2) Rags didn't kill Rags. So the maffia must have.

 

(1) + (2) -> Tina sent in no Maffia NK tonight.

[peacesells]

 

 

BTW I think Rags was blocked cause he sure wouldn't have holstered as that makes no sense.

 

Meh..there are many scenarios to cover a holster.  For instance, Rags protected someone who was not targeted or scum.  Doesn't cpr doc die in that situation?

 

Tina could be a scum submitter if you jailed her and Rags protected the wrong player.  Therefore, only 1 kill.

 

I'm not saying I come close to believing the theory I just outlined.  I'm saying that your theory has holes.

 

Nope, CPR doc is simply a Vig who doesn't kill his target if he's already targeted for a NK. I think you should readup the role and consider the situation again.

 

 

ah..misread the role.

[csarmi]

Managed to mess up while editing:

 

I'll guide you through it step by step :D

 

(1) I jailed Tina. Rags died. Conclusion: Tina didn't kill Rags.

(2) You agree that Rags didn't kill Rags. So the maffia must have.

 

(1) + (2) -> Tina sent in no Maffia NK tonight.

[John Snow]

Okay....

[John Snow]

##vote Salami

[Niniel]

A sane+insane cop pair looks quite fun and symmetrical.

 

No idea how to test Despo's sanity. I think it can't be done at all, short of him dying or getting a scum read. But I think there's no problem there.

 

I agree with Pral that Peace must be town (having only a naive cop don't seem to be likely at all).

 

In the first sentence it looks like you believe that Des is a sane cop. In the last sentence it looks like you think that he is a naive cop. 

 

 

I think it´s good if we know all the cop views right now. Peace, again, who did you view last night? 

[John Snow]

And, now, to my reads:

 

 

 

As amusing as I find testicle jokes and Verbal trying to resurrect memes that are deader than Asmodean, it would be nice to see more mafia after nine hours.

quote box screwed up, but this is from verb, then shortly thereafter, we get this from Des

 

Two things:

1. Why did y'all let the train on AJ derail? Y'all like letting obvious scum off the hook?!

2. Why'd everyone stop playing mafia? Save the chatter for yalls knitting circles, or at least night phase. Everyone, start getting out some reads. NOW.

... Please. 

Major ping, copying the mod to try to appear towny by 'getting town back on track'.

 

Also, Mish trying to defend Cloud like anything (or going after verb, same thing)

Starts here
 

Now. AJ, way too aggresive compared to how I'm used to see him D1. Not been able to put my finger on ho w it makes me think about his alignement; I gotta go back and look at his first initial posts in context. I've read page 1-6 a post here and a post there when I had time, and then from page 6 and out now in one sitting, so I gotta get it all looked at in one go. But he is being very aggresive and loud compared to what I'm used to, so watching him.
 
I've got slight town leans on Des, Cloud and Tina so far. Not sure how I feel about Verb, he's being more vocal than I expect, and mostly posting spam and fluff when not trying to go for Cloud. Leelou is also a bit more in spam-mode than I expect from her. The rest is mostly null reads, nothing that's stuck out. We'll see if that changes after a re-read later tonight.

And, again
 

Now. AJ, way too aggresive compared to how I'm used to see him D1. Not been able to put my finger on ho w it makes me think about his alignement; I gotta go back and look at his first initial posts in context. I've read page 1-6 a post here and a post there when I had time, and then from page 6 and out now in one sitting, so I gotta get it all looked at in one go. But he is being very aggresive and loud compared to what I'm used to, so watching him.
 
I've got slight town leans on Des, Cloud and Tina so far. Not sure how I feel about Verb, he's being more vocal than I expect, and mostly posting spam and fluff when not trying to go for Cloud. Leelou is also a bit more in spam-mode than I expect from her. The rest is mostly null reads, nothing that's stuck out. We'll see if that changes after a re-read later tonight.

And, then she votes verb. I myself found it odd that Cloud was serious too early in the game but still he voted AJ for being serious. That is hypocritical and opportunistic.
 

I'm not a D1 player 
 
Wich I'm working at changing, I hope people have noticed that lately! But I'm struggling with separating this thread from the Walking Dead (and I see I'm not the only one *pokes Des*) and so I've given the other one more of my attention to get the proper feel for one at a time.
 
I agree with you about Verb though. He keeps switching his reason for why he thinks Cloud is scummy (first it was "you are too serious for this early in the game" and then it was "for chastising AJ for being so serious early"). And he doesn't say much about anyone else.
 
I will also
##Vote Verb

There were talks about buddying between Darthe and AJ, but I find this buddying more interesting and suspicous.

##vote Cloud

 

Noteworthy case, with cloud's flip.

 

#sarcasm

There's a font for that

 

 

 

Aaaand, the rest of my quotes disappeared. &)*@#$()&%#()@*%%)(@&%&@#%()*#()$&()%*#@)

 

Also, sorry it took me so long to catch up. I overencumbered my mafia games, and RL stuff.

 

but my vote stays on salami. His role makes sense until rag's flip. If there was another RB'er they would've CC'd Darthe. Unless you guys are still buying the 2 scum team angle, which I didn't think you were. 

 

[peacesells]

Tina..if I felt like revealing who I viewed last night..I would have done so by now.

 

 

If you feel that strong about it...convince me with sound reasons.  Otherwise, you are wasting your time repeating the same thing over and over and over again.

[Niniel]

I don´t understand why you don´t want to.

 

I want to know because if that person dies, we can get clues about you. Also, if you die we can get clues about them. Right now it looks like you´re afraid of this. 

[csarmi]

@Tina - I believe that a Cop shouldn't reveal their views early in a day. Interactions are more telling that way.

[csarmi]

@John Snow - are you saying that a mafia roleblocker would have CC'd Darthe?

[John Snow]

@John Snow - are you saying that a mafia roleblocker would have CC'd Darthe?

Darthe wouldn't have claimed RB if mafia had one. (this is assuming one mafia)

Darthe would have claimed BPV over RB if both were present. BPV is more often town than RB. Therefore, mafia have no RB.

[peacesells]

I don´t understand why you don´t want to.

 

I want to know because if that person dies, we can get clues about you. Also, if you die we can get clues about them. Right now it looks like you´re afraid of this. 

 

there have been two reveals to give info on me, plus Despo's viewing.

 

Also, you can say I look afraid now..but I pretty always save my viewing.  It's the best way to get real cases from players that aren't affected by my views.  Why are you so concerned about this?  I wouldn't let a player with a town viewing get lynched. 

[Andrej]

CS is the best option today.

 

Period.

[csarmi]

Vote Count

 

Turin(3): Des, Tina, Mish

Salami(2): AJ, John Snow

Mish(2): Pralaya, Salami

Despo (1): Turin

 

Not voting: Peace

 

 

5 to lynch.  Deadline likely sometime on Monday.

 

 

Vote Count

 

Turin(3): Des, Tina, Mish

Salami(1): AJ

Mish(1): Pralaya

 

Not voting: Turin, Salami, Peace, John Snow

 

 

5 to lynch.  Deadline likely sometime on Monday.

 

 

It won't be if I flip town it will be when. I stated directly I was wrong about Rags and Darthe. I was looking at Rags from D1 when he was bumping around with you two.(AJ, Despo) The fact is I wasn't sure about Darthe but I thought the chances higher that Rags was mafia, in no small part because Despo was one of his main defenders. I really didn't like some of the things that happened in the Despo peace face off. Mostly that Depso didn't seem interested in actually resolving it. It seemed like the entire thing was a set up to save Rags. I mean he came out and claimed on an innocent view when he couldn't be sure he was right. It looked like a blatant attempt to save a teammate. mores even than Peace and Darthe. There was also the incident about Despo seeming to push for Lenloto be NKed. I don't see that as townie Despo behavior. I have an additonal bad feeling about that as I kind of made it obvious that I would be willing to replace and Despo took the time to post but only to have me sign up for the BT game.It seemed to me he would be happier to have Len deaded than have someone replace him. Now since I KNOW Len was town as I have access to his role PM I am left to wonder why Despo didn't want me in THIS game.He has had some interesting interactions with Mish this game I believe also. 

 

Hell I'm probly gonna get lynched anyway today... Might as well do what I thunk is right.

 

##Vote Despo

 

If mafia YAY

 

If real cop then Tina and Peace and whoever Peace viewed last night are all confirmed

 

If Naive cop then only info is that Tina and Peace are back to where they were, unknown

 

 

Cop falling back to naive cop is a very tough fake claim to break. as long as he gives only innocents and none of them get lynched as mafia. Oh but wait he was right in line with Mish in floating the redirector angle so he could still use that for an extra day. I think it is time to decide about these cops...

 

If I get lynched, I will flip town. Who living is connected to me? I dunno. think about what I have had to say.

 

 

Has snow even posted?

 

 

 

 

Off to sleep again...

 

 

 

 

Teams:

 

Rags, Mish, AJ

Pray, Peace, (Cloud)

 

That work? First one sounds very likely to me.

 

What?? Explain this please. And please don't counter that some flips have changed your mind. I want to know what you were thinking when you posted this.

 

Sure.

 

Team Rags: Mish and you looked like Rag's teammates to me. Might pick up the exact reason why if I ever get to re-read. It was about the voting pattern. Thought I would find all of his teammates on the Darthe train. Mish also been acting rather scummy and the way she bandwagoned didn't sit well with me. With you? I don't remember, honest. There was something with your Darthe, Peace or Despo interaction I think?

 

Team Cloud: I just looked to see who else was scummy. Pray because of his timing of his arrivals and how he seemed to avoid trains. Peace looked rather strange at that point and I found him more likely to be scum than Darthe. I thought either him or Sarthe would be scum.

 

 

Just going on play its

 

Mish, -- sure

Peace, Pray, Darthe, Rags -- in that order

 

Also we don't have enough info on TurinLo. Liked his posts. Just wary for the 9 day skip.

 

Again, what?? This seems to be CS posting his scum reads from greatest to least. Notice who he has last: Rags. Inconsistent much?

 

No inconsistency there. Have you read the first line?

 

Turin is a good mafia player, and an especially good townie. I don't think his reads would all be THAT off this game.

 

CS has kinda disappeared tho since Darthe's flip... That's very troubling to say the least.

I think I was around after the flip, actually. I disappared to pull 18-hour workdays. Prolly gonna have the whole december this way, actually.

 

----------------

 

#Turin - I totally agree with Despo, I'd have been much more comfortable with Lenlo/Turin being modkilled. Guy disappeared for 9 days. No recovery from that.

With that said, he seemed to make a lot of sense to me yesterday, but maybe because he took my side. Would have to read up on him to figure out.

 

#Mish - I just found her scummy whole game. Not sure I can put my finger on why. FYi, I kept ignoring her cause I thought she was scum (I still do), I didn't really have that much time to post (just skipped in for short intervals), cause I thought it was pointless to talk redirections there and mostly cause I found it funny how she got more and more angry. :evil:

 

FWIW, I suppose the maffia team should have a roleblocker. They probably blocked Rags N1, me N2 and Rags N3.

 

Also, ##vote Mish

 

 

##vote Salami

 

 

[michellem]

Urgh I don't know what to say anyone. AJ you clearly haven't been reading my posts. Everyone who keeps trying to throw the redirector in my face clearly hasn't read my posts. I was extremely frustrated because people were going back nd forth on an issue, I saw a possible explanation, presented it, and everyone and their grandmother ignored me. It wasn't about trying to provide Csarmi an out. It was abotu making him see that he was being stubborn nd thickheaded and stupid. He kept calling Rags a lier over and lier because their supposed NA's didn't match up. And instead of contemplating all the options, he kept tunneling and made us spend an insane amount of time on that discussion.

 

 

Also Csarmi, wow. That's real pro-town play, ignoring someone to make them pissed off. Well now I'm pissed off, and you can GDIAF.

[michellem]

I forgot to say this:

 

@AJ:

Re:Tina, since we had what seemed to be most likely an insane cop, I didn't take Des' reads as foulproof. So that's why I pointed out what I did about Tina.

 

Also, how can you possibly have a town read on Turin after Darthe's complete 180 on the slot after Turin replaced in? After Darthe's flip?

[Turin Turambar]

@ Despo, prepare for disappointment...

 

@ peace, Despo is not afraid to make a bold move, especially if he can use it to skate to victory. And allows him to be in the spotlight.

(Musician). I see him as at best a naive cop. A real cop, as insane cop, and a deputy is too much for the roles we have seen from mafia to date.

 

One thing I thought about was his calling for the "real doc" to protect him last night when if he believes rags then rags is the obvious one for protection. Mafia would be more afraid of getting killed than getting viewed by Despo.

 

@ Mish, picture this: you're mafia like Darthe. D1 you pick a town target to pressure. Hopefully you get an easy mislynch. Or at least a claim. That happens, moving on to bigger fish. Said target gets replaced. Is applying pressure where you want it. Are you going to resume pressing them when they are only vanilla and doing whatyou want? I don't think so. Additionally, who on the team is best suited to defend the townie? Maybe the GF. Who did the defense? Cloud. Oh yeah, he was the GF.

 

@Despo, your tunnelling argument is invalid as I find there to be a case to.make on everyone left alive. I just noticed no one really questioning you and that is dangerous for town.

 

.## unvote

## vote mish

 

Carry on. Off driving now.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

Turin(3): Des, Tina, Mish
Salami(2): AJ, John Snow
Mish(3): Pralaya, Salami, Turin

Not voting: Peace


5 to lynch.  Deadline likely sometime on Monday.