[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[Niniel]

Well, I can´t hammer Rag, since I´m already voting him. Wombat time should be 6 AM. When do you think he logs on? 

[hazelkrs1]

The point was your "case" on me was weak at best, then you used my CC to try and make it real.

I don't think my case on you was weak at all, and if it WAS weak, then why didn't you take some time to expose all of the flaws in it?

 

Here, I'll fetch it for you, so that you can see it again and easily refute everything I point out about you. Should be no problem, right? Since it's so weak and all?

 

Iso on Peace:

 

 

 

Didn't pull his spammy or offtopic posts, there weren't too many of those anyways

 

 

So on the off chance I flip VT, do we get to take that point away?

 

Say what?  Did you just pull a Rand?

 

 

Nudges the Lenlo thing, doesn't vote...

 

#VOTE AJ

 

Votes AJ without giving reasons

 

Csarmi = Scum

 

Says Salami is scum, no reasons, doesn't vote him

 

##UNVOTE

 

Unvotes, I went back a couple of pages to see why, couldn't figure out what prompted this (his vote was on AJ)

 

 

Sure. The point remains though, she's had opportunity to play the game and hasn't really. Take you for instance. You don't post very regularly, but when you do, you're giving opinions and actively joining in what's currently going on.

 

I say "Yo" and only "Yo" in every game as my first post.  Does that make me scum every game?  Why are you being so stubborn on this issue?

 

 

Nudges the AJ train, even tho he recently unvoted from it...

 

Verbal still exagerating the joke stage.  There was a ton of real stuff going on in between those fun posts.

 

##vote AJ

 

Votes AJ again

 

##UNVOTE VOTE VERBAL

 

Switches to Verbal without reasoning, I believe the deadline was coming up fairly soon

 

LOL..Despo arrogantly points out others arrogance offense.  It's his signature move.

 

Despo..I don't get how in the heck you can decide that Darthe is pushing his meta on purpose.  He has been so out there the past year how can you tell a difference.  If you are going to continue to push that angle...I want to see the evidence.  Point out exactly what he has said and why it makes you believe the way you do.

 

Here's where he challenges my opinion that Darthe is forcing his meta. Asks for specific examples, however when I gave them he never responded again. Could have been buddying Darthe, could have been defending a teammate. Either way looks bad.

 

Very early aggressiveness is not an attribute that I find scum having very often.  If that is the basis of the argument on Cloud..that's pretty weak.

 

Soft-defends Cloud

 

I can vote Salami.

 

Says he could vote Salami... funny how Leelou was saying the same thing (she was voting Salami D1, but iirc it was kind of an OMGUS vote, or at least made to look like that)

 

In this game Cloud has done what he always does.  It's null for him.

 

Soft defends Cloud again, sort of close to hard defending him.

 

Have I ##Voted Verbal yet?  If not,  ##Vote Verbal.

 

His vote on Verb D2

 

 

Peace, can you give us some thoughts about the players? 

 

 

Totally agree with Des´s post.

 

Yeah..Verbal and Salami are scum.

 

 

Links Verb and Salami unnecessarily (I don't think I discussed Salami at all in my casing of Verb).

 

He could have linked these two together to try and make Salami look better after Verb's flip. Im fairly certain that's what his intent was, in fact.

 

If I had reads on others...I'd share them.

 

After Tina asks him for reads on other players, Peace respond with this. Again, the confrontational tone seems unnecessary.

 

Quick question before I got to bed. Rag, why did you choose cloud?

 

 

Considering the Vig is dead...and Rag only reason for shooting cloud was a "gut feeling" I'm inclined to believe Darthe.

 

##VOTE RAG

 

Sets up his vote on Rag by first asking for reasoning, Rag gave more than just his "gut feeling" as reasoning, tho he did mention that. Also Peace says THE Vig is dead, trying to further cement the idea that we'd never see more than one Vig flip, or that Vig is the only town role that can kill peeps.

 

So I was thinking Salami would be a good lynch today, as he seemed to be linked to Leelou (Leelou has said she would vote for him, but didn't besides the D1 "OMGUS" vote, and Salami was the first to use Verbal's lynch to "clear" Leelou as town) and Peace (said he would vote for him, never did, and also linked Salami to Verb in an apparent attempt to "clear" Salami as town afterwards), and he really hasn't contributed much to the scumhunt, but honestly after iso'ing Peace I think he should be our lynch today. Defended Cloud without making a big deal of it, and in general his voting record is lazy (doesn't give reasons for voting, or sets up his vote easily).

 

##Vote Peace

 

As of right now, I'm thinking the scum team is linked together like a nice set of dominoes. Peace, Salami, Leelou, then prob Lenlo unless he's already been modkilled.

 

 

 

 

 

Basically stating I CC'd only because I am scum and am desperate.  (desperate after 1 players case on me and maybe one vote?) Then AJ fed right into it.

I don't think that you solely CC'ed as a desperation scum move, I think you did so to obscure and confuse town, and I have said so before.

 

You ignore how unlikely it would be that I'd both counter claim, then give my reads including the read discrepancy on Cloud.  There is absolutely no scum advantage to that..yet you try and paint it into some weird and strange light.

No scum advantage eh? Even after I already pointed out why you might say the weird thing about Cloud?

 

Just in case you forgot, here it is again:

 

If you were scum, and fake CC'ing, you could have said that bit about Cloud to both make the claim seem more believable, like you had talked about it with the mod, and to give you an out later on. You CC, and clear Darthe as town. If either me or Darthe is lynched, and Darthe flips scum, you can say that you MUST be an Insane Cop, explaining your town "viewing" on Darthe, and why I'd flip as an actual Cop.

 

You even help set this up more later, when you say that you think there might be two cops after all.

 

So you really don't see the scum angle in CC'ing the way you did, even tho this is the second time at least that I have discussed this? There IS absolutely a scum advantage to admitting a peculiarity about your viewing like you did.

 

The more you do this and stick to this weak reasoning the more you look manipulative.  Compound that with AJ riding your coat tails and it all looks like team work.

You again try to call my reasoning weak, without saying WHY. This makes you look dodgy and evasive. And if it's unlikely that you would claim in such a manner as scum, how unlikely is it that I would work together so obviously with a teammate if I was scum?

 

Rags has played very scummy this game..you've even stated so.  (Remember..you bus your team mates hard right?) Yet you call him town???????  Let's lynch someone we think is scummy per their actions.  Not some read you claim to have that could have been screwed with in a million ways if you really are a cop.

 

Rags flips scum, you and AJ are scum imo.

 

##unvote  

##vote rags

I agree Rags has played off, but I think part of it might be that it's a new forum to him, and he's still trying to get a feel for everyone, a feel for how we play mafia here.

 

Either way, with a Godfather already dead, I'm not distrusting my town viewing on Rags until I have absolute concrete evidence to do so, whether it's a sanity check on me or some kind of role manipulator or something flipping.

 

Until then, it would be stupid to distrust that town viewing. A SK isn't going to show as town to a cop viewing, makes it too OP imo. And any other kind of explanation involves him being on a separate scum team, something I HAVEN'T seen evidence of yet and doubt the existence of atm.

 

Face it, Peace. I got you. And you dodging my points against you, and just calling my case or reasoning "weak" doesn't do anything to stop it. You wanna prove me wrong? THEN DO IT.

[hazelkrs1]

Well, I can´t hammer Rag, since I´m already voting him. Wombat time should be 6 AM. When do you think he logs on?

Just hammer Darthe already Tina. I've explained I don't know how many times why he makes a MUCH better lynch for us today than Rags.

 

If you're not going to vote him, then address that post specifically and tell me why you disagree.

[hazelkrs1]

This one Tina

 

Okay I'm going to break this down one last time for everyone, and this time I'll type real slow to make sure all the thickheaded players in the game have a chance to grasp what I'm saying.

 

Darthe ISN'T just an info lynch. I was one of the first to remark about him being off early D1, and even had my vote on him then, NOT based on info reasons, but because he seemed the scummiest to me. To summarize why:

 

1. He seemed like he was forcing his meta to me. Inb4 Peace asks for examples, I GAVE THEM

2. He tunneled Lenlo a good bit D1, then after realizing that train wasn't getting any traction, just kinda let that go. And now he has apparently completely forgotten about it, because he supports the things Turin has had to say since replacing, never once bringing up that he distrusted Lenlo

3. He went from being okay with his lynch before, in fact even encouraging it, to now fighting it with every scrap of energy he can muster.

 

Those are all OBVIOUS scumtells.

 

However, Darthe IS the better info lynch today, and it's not close. And btw, when I say info lynch. I don't mean that a lynch on him will give us a bit of info about other players, I'm talking about VERIFYING A CLAIMED COP'S SANITY.

 

Now, some think you can test my claim/sanity with a Rag lynch just as well as a Darthe lynch will test Peace's. However, that is not the case.

 

1. Peace got a guilty and a town viewing. I have gotten two town viewings.

2. Peace already got confirmation on one of his viewings- he viewed Cloud as mafia, who should have been viewed as town because he is the GF

3. Because of this, between the two cop claims, only ONE of us so far has evidence to make us doubt our sanity- Peace

4. Since he has confirmation on one of his viewings, half the work is done. We lynch Darthe and he flips scum, then Peace is either scum pulling a gambit, or an Insane Cop (there are other faint possibilities, but they are all unlikely so I'm ignoring them for the time being)

5. Confirming a Cop is an Insane Cop is extremely important- we wouldn't know for sure yet, but Peace would know that he was Insane, and at that point he can just reverse all of his viewings, and can trust them with complete certainty. In a game with possible multiple cops, it is paramount to discover what flaws either Cop might have

6. If we lynched Rag instead, we will have only tested one of my town viewings. If he flips GF, we essentially learn nothing about my sanity.

7. If he flips scum, but not a GF, then we will have some evidence of my sanity being in some way flawed... but there will still be nothing truly conclusive. Ideally, we would also like to have a guilty viewing from me on someone else that we could then test, but if I'm a Naive Cop then we won't get that.

8. Rags flipping town would again not really tell us anything about my sanity level, I could still be a Naive Cop, or my viewing could have been tampered with, since him flipping town would also prove that CS's argument against him fell through, meaning either CS was scum or that he tried Jailing Rags but had his NA diverted or something.

9. There's a possibility we can nab two scum with Darthe's lynch, if Peace fake CC'ed to try and clear himself (before his CC, I had claimed and cased several people, and was voting Peace) and Darthe. Yall don't know this, but there is no such potential with doing this with Rags and myself, since I know myself to be town. And really, even tho this is subjective, I think I have proved my towniness several times over by showing my intent to try and find scum, whereas Peace... hasn't.

 

So AGAIN, lynching Rags to test me is really pretty much full of fail, whereas lynching Darthe can potentially net us two scum OR one scum and a vetted Insane Cop (very valuable) OR cost us one vanilla, and help uncover more evidence of a possible redirector role of some kind or something. So even worst case scenario with Darthe's lynch, we can still gain something. Lynching Rags however, can at best get town one scum OR cost us a PR, miss out on the chance to test Peace's sanity conclusively, and cast aspersion on another potential town PR (if CS isn't lying).

 

This is very simple folks. Hammer Darthe.

[Niniel]

Contrary to most of you, I´m not sure about anything. It´s just that I trust Csarmi. But I doubt that we will get a lynch unless I change my vote.

 

 

##unvote

 

## vote Darthe

[hazelkrs1]

Thank you sweet Jesus.

 

Best. Lyncher. Ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jping lol

[peacesells]

Despo..your whole case on my "gambit" relies on the trade off being worth it.  1 town is not worth 1 scum.  If I am scum..it's a long shot play....looooooooooong shot play.  That's why you case is weak.  And I've stated it before.

 

Me claiming cop and "clearing" Darthe if we are both scum is another Looooooooong shot play who's risks are much greater than the possible reward.

 

So, yes, your case is extremely weak.

 

Scum team is AJ, Desp and Rags. 

 

DESPO...AND KEEP BUSSING RAGS..ITS YOUR GREATEST TELL.

[michellem]

Are my post being hidden or something? I seem to remember giving direct comments to Des, Csarmi and Pral, and yet none of them acknowledge me. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

 

 

Tina's wishy-washy posts here on deciding to move her vote or not gives me an iffy feeling.

[Darthe]

Contrary to most of you, I´m not sure about anything. It´s just that I trust Csarmi. But I doubt that we will get a lynch unless I change my vote.

 

 

##unvote

 

## vote Darthe

 

 

Thank you sweet Jesus.

 

Best. Lyncher. Ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jping lol

 

 

Are my post being hidden or something? I seem to remember giving direct comments to Des, Csarmi and Pral, and yet none of them acknowledge me. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

 

 

Tina's wishy-washy posts here on deciding to move her vote or not gives me an iffy feeling.

 

[WWWwombat]

Just logged on.  I had stuff to do this morning.  VC coming.

[WWWwombat]

Final Vote Count

Salami(1): Ragnarok
Rags(4): Salami, Turin, Darthe, Peace
Darthe(6): Leelou/John Snow, Despo, Andrej, Mish, Pralaya, Tina

6 to lynch.

[Darthe]

When snow showed up Leelou's vote wasn't reset?

[WWWwombat]

I don't reset votes on replacement.  Always seemed kind of silly to me.  You can count it as Leelou if it makes you feel better.

[Darthe]

Any chance you would accept a bribe?

 

 

Pics to your inbox?

[WWWwombat]

Darthe was sitting at a café, smoking a cigarillo, waiting for the right time.  Timing was everything.  Timing and information.  He had bided his time very carefully over the past decade.  He had kept that lighter of Smiley's for decades until the time came to play it.  He had kept some of his best agents dormant while he waited for the right circumstances to come along.  And then, he had done it.  A coup that pushed Control and Smiley out, and his mole into a top position, handling intelligence from Operation Witchcraft.  Witchcraft was, of course, a complete ruse.  He gave the Circus chicken feed while his man brought the crown jewels back to his handler in a safe house and thence to Moscow.

 

Unfortunately, Haydon had been careless and gotten himself killed.  Now Darthe had to be careful.  He would set this one last plot in play and then return to Moscow.

 

Darthe's mark walked by.  Darthe placed a two pound piece on the table and strolled casually after him.  Darthe had been following at a safe distance when his mark turned into an alleyway.  Now was the time.  Darthe hustled after him, drawing his handgun but keeping it hidden behind his coat.  Darthe turned a corner and saw six pistols pointing at him.  He gave a lazy smile and started to raise his hands, then pulled his gun and started to fire.  You can guess how it turned out.

 

 

 

 

 

Darthe, Karla, Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof, has been lynched.

 

It is now Night 3.

[Darthe]

And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those stupid kids and their meddling dog!

 

I need a drink.

 

 

Go mafia!

[WWWwombat]

<3 Darthe

 

g2g now though

[michellem]

I would guess that clears both Des and Peace.

[Niniel]

How do you mean? 

[Andrej]

I wouldn't say Peace by any means.

 

His resistance to lynch Darthe yesterday as one of his 'innocent' views after knowing he got a mixed view of Cloud was pretty sketchy.

 

Turin doesn't look too great IMO either. He avoided the Darthe wagon pretty hard yesterday.

[Niniel]

Yes. Cloud defended Lenlo day 1 as well. 

[TheRagnarok]

Yo.  So Darthe was scum after all.  That is very good.  No, I do not regret not hammering him.  If I am a top lynch suspect for a day, I don't hammer. 

 

That said, Turin looks awful.  Almost as bad as Csarmi. 

[Andrej]

Darthe with a BPV sort of supports Rag's role balance wise IMO. Gives the mafia team some defense to his kill ability.

[TheRagnarok]

Who to kill, who to kill, maybe Csarmi...maybe Turin...maybe no one...maybe #YOLO spin a wheel and see where it lands!

[michellem]

I wouldn't say Peace by any means.

 

His resistance to lynch Darthe yesterday as one of his 'innocent' views after knowing he got a mixed view of Cloud was pretty sketchy.

 

Turin doesn't look too great IMO either. He avoided the Darthe wagon pretty hard yesterday.

 

Good point; it could have been a major gambit to make Peace look good. But I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

But Des I would say is cleared. He's gone after Darthe quite strongly. I still want Des to answer me on wich night he viewed Rags though, because he's given what I feel are contradictory answers there.

 

I also still want Csarmi to tell me why he isn't willing to consider the possiblity of a redirector/bus driver.

 

I also want Pral to comment on my answer on his suspicions on me. He does not look very good at the moment at all. Two outlier votes at the end of two days, and he's very eager to push on me, but not willing to follow it up. Tsk.