[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[Niniel]

A quick list for Turin since I´m at work.

 

 

1.  Pralaya - no claim

2.  Lenlo/Turin - claimed vanilla early D1

3.  Cloud, Bill Haydon, Mafia Godfather, killed Night 2

4.  Darthe - claimed 1xRB D1. Blocked Rag N1. 

5.  Salami - claimed jailkeeper D3. N1 - put Verbal in jail. N2 - put Rag in jail. 

6.  Krak, Vanilla Town, killed Night 2

7.  Peace - claimed cop D3. Viewed Darthe N1 = town. Viewed Cloud N2 = mafia (although he was GF).

8.  Mish - no claim

9.  Des - Claimed cop D3. Viewed Rag N1 and Tina N2 - both town. 

10.  Tina - no claim

11.  Verbal, George Smiley, Town Deputy, lynched Day 2

12.  Ragnarok - Claimed CPR doc D3. Didn´t send in a na N1. N2 he targetted Cloud. 

13.  Dap, Jim Prideaux, Town One-Shot Vigilante, killed Night 1

14.  Leelou - no claim

15.  Andrej - no claim

 

 

 

I still don´t know what to do. I believe Csarmi. If that means that Rag is mafia or not is uncertain. 

[hazelkrs1]

Alright so CS's claim def throws a wrinkle into things, and atm I'm inclined to believe it since it could explain why he has been going after Rags so strong today. However, even if he is telling the truth, it doesn't necessarily mean Rags is mafia.

 

Now, to weigh in really quick- I don't really like some of Rags reaction to this news, like for instance how he tried defending himself by saying no one else had come forward and claimed to have been Jailed... even tho Mish had already explained that we don't usually find out from the mod if we're Jailed on DM, and also ignoring the fact that it was never proven that there is a redirector role, or that even if someone was Jailed instead, and knew it, they still might not want to reveal (if they were scum or a PR trying to stay hidden). I also really don't like how Rags announced his target for tonight beforehand, struck me as very scummy. Firstly it's antitown to announce your targets beforehand in pretty much any situation. Second, it could have been to try and make himself look more town ("I'm so convinced this guy is scum for going after poor innocent me that Imma kill him tonight!"). Lastly, it's completely ignoring the possibility that CS is town as well as Rags, and that there is a redirector ability or something that caused the confusion.

 

That being said, I still think Darthe is the better lynch today. Here's why:

 

Lynch Darthe, and...

1. He flips scum, which would mean that Peace is either scum or an Insane Cop. So we'd either get two scum, or a kind of vetted Insane Cop, which is really just as useful as a normal Cop once verified. Another possibility would be that there is a redirector ability of some kind.

2. He flips town, and we have strong evidence that Peace is either scum that fake CC'ed, a "hard" Cop (which I personally find extremely unlikely, considering the rarity of the role, and the known presence of a Deputy and myself as a Cop as well), or that their is a redirector role of some kind that fooled with Peace's results.

 

Lynch Rags and...

1. He flips scum, and we'd pretty much have CS vetted as a Jailkeeper, and possibly know of the presence of another mafia team (unlikely tome given theme, the format of Wombat listing Cloud as mafia, and the size of the game).

2. He flips town, and we'd have strong evidence that either CS is mafia, who fake claimed mebbe to save teammate Darthe, or that there is some kind of redirector ability present.

 

Basically, we get a lot more out of either scenario in Darthe's lynch. So I'm keeping my vote on him. I still have a town viewing on Rags, with at least one GF already dead, so for now I'm.... ooh quick thought- Rags could be a Nexus. Could explain both my town view on him, as well as CS Jailing him but apparently not preventing the kill. Nexus is kinda OP tho, doubt the scum team would have both a GF AND a Nexus... which brings us again back to the possibility of a second mafia team. Grrrrr. Anyways, until we get evidence of a second mafia team, or until it becomes apparent that town is powered heavily enough to justify a scum team having both a GF AND a Mirror or Nexus, I'm trusting my viewing on him. As with Tina.

[hazelkrs1]

 

FYI Peace, I'm not getting a good feeling from you dragging your feet on this. 

 

so...deal with it.  Why are you acting like confirmed town?

 

 

Didn't like this post btw. Again, unnecessarily confrontational, and I didn't see Leelou acting like confirmed town. I too, don't see why Peace is reluctant to test his sanity with a Darthe lynch.

 

Remember my town and scum lists.  I could quote the post but same difference.

 

I don't think you gave your reads on all players. If you're town, please at least give your reads on all remaining players in the game. Doesn't have to be long and justifications given for each if you're feeling lazy.

 

I'd rather not push it into the Night phase to find out.

 

That's pretty scummy of you to mention Peace, especially since our Doc can't actually protect without risking killing if the mafia shoots elsewhere.

 

Why do you say "our Doc" as if we would only have the one? Multiple Cops, potentially with varying degrees of sanity, I could totally see multiple protective roles as well, with varying degrees of usefulness (CPR, Bodyguard, Guardian Angel, etc.)

 

Also, having a CPR Doc with multiple Cops does make sense considering his ability, like I said before.

 

Unless somebody comes out and claims that they are the actual Doc, I don't really have a reason to doubt it. You have entertained the thought of multiple Cops and Despo said he viewed Rag as Town. What does that tell you?

 

Why would a Doc CC a CPR Doc? Don't like this post from you AJ...

 

If rags was jailed...he'd know it.  Why would he make a stupid claim at the kill then?  Doesn't add up.

 

 

Exactly!  Everywhere I have played, you get told if jailed and I would know to never claim the kill.

 

...

 

So didn't realize Peace was the first to put out that the target knows about being Jailed... he's been on DM WELL long enough to know that this isn't normally the case. I know he got a different experience with the Jailer in Wombat's Mandalorian game on Myndjack, but that wasn't even on DM...

 

Peace putting this out there, and Rags immediately jumping on it, makes me wary

 

 

X4 for me as well @ Pray's vote

 

 

...Not gonna comment on the Csarmi/Rags thing?

 

Not willing to join the Darthe-lynch, a vanilla, to check Peace?

 

Check him? Nice try. This whole game has been about "test this guy", "check that guy " etc.

 

You wanted to lynch Verbal to "get more information". He flipped town. Now what? What did you get from it?

 

I believe in scumhunting rather than wasting time lynching who I believe is town.

 

 

Verbal's lynch DID give us info on some of the remaining players. Furthermore, he wasn't just an "info" lynch, I thought he was almost assuredly scum.

 

In this case, altho Darthe is more of an info lynch, there is potentially MUCH more info that can be obtained from it.

 

And for a scumhunter, you didn't exactly seem to be trying that hard. The reasoning that led to your vote on AJ wasn't that strong, felt forced to me.

 

cpr doc dies if protecting a town player.  so if Csarmi is town..you should die right?

 

Again? Why are you so mixed up about roles Peace? Not only did Rags already explain how his role worked, I know you've been in games with CPR Docs before. What gives bro?

[Leelou]

Still no lynch?

[michellem]

I forgot to put my vote bck on Darthe <.<

 

##Vote Darthe

[Darthe]

Narurally.

[csarmi]

So why aren't we lynching Rags again?

[michellem]

Did you not read this, Csarmi?

 

 

Alright so CS's claim def throws a wrinkle into things, and atm I'm inclined to believe it since it could explain why he has been going after Rags so strong today. However, even if he is telling the truth, it doesn't necessarily mean Rags is mafia.

 

Now, to weigh in really quick- I don't really like some of Rags reaction to this news, like for instance how he tried defending himself by saying no one else had come forward and claimed to have been Jailed... even tho Mish had already explained that we don't usually find out from the mod if we're Jailed on DM, and also ignoring the fact that it was never proven that there is a redirector role, or that even if someone was Jailed instead, and knew it, they still might not want to reveal (if they were scum or a PR trying to stay hidden). I also really don't like how Rags announced his target for tonight beforehand, struck me as very scummy. Firstly it's antitown to announce your targets beforehand in pretty much any situation. Second, it could have been to try and make himself look more town ("I'm so convinced this guy is scum for going after poor innocent me that Imma kill him tonight!"). Lastly, it's completely ignoring the possibility that CS is town as well as Rags, and that there is a redirector ability or something that caused the confusion.

 

That being said, I still think Darthe is the better lynch today. Here's why:

 

Lynch Darthe, and...

1. He flips scum, which would mean that Peace is either scum or an Insane Cop. So we'd either get two scum, or a kind of vetted Insane Cop, which is really just as useful as a normal Cop once verified. Another possibility would be that there is a redirector ability of some kind.

2. He flips town, and we have strong evidence that Peace is either scum that fake CC'ed, a "hard" Cop (which I personally find extremely unlikely, considering the rarity of the role, and the known presence of a Deputy and myself as a Cop as well), or that their is a redirector role of some kind that fooled with Peace's results.

 

Lynch Rags and...

1. He flips scum, and we'd pretty much have CS vetted as a Jailkeeper, and possibly know of the presence of another mafia team (unlikely tome given theme, the format of Wombat listing Cloud as mafia, and the size of the game).

2. He flips town, and we'd have strong evidence that either CS is mafia, who fake claimed mebbe to save teammate Darthe, or that there is some kind of redirector ability present.

 

Basically, we get a lot more out of either scenario in Darthe's lynch. So I'm keeping my vote on him. I still have a town viewing on Rags, with at least one GF already dead, so for now I'm.... ooh quick thought- Rags could be a Nexus. Could explain both my town view on him, as well as CS Jailing him but apparently not preventing the kill. Nexus is kinda OP tho, doubt the scum team would have both a GF AND a Nexus... which brings us again back to the possibility of a second mafia team. Grrrrr. Anyways, until we get evidence of a second mafia team, or until it becomes apparent that town is powered heavily enough to justify a scum team having both a GF AND a Mirror or Nexus, I'm trusting my viewing on him. As with Tina.

[csarmi]

I did, but I can't see why we would get more from Darthe's lynch. The second two options look much better to me. Especially when I'm pretty sure that Rags will flip scum - I don't understand how he could be town either, especially not from Despo's reasonign above.

 

I'll try to go deeper into that when I got some time, now I gotta commute home.

[csarmi]

Also I don't know what a Nexus is. I suppose I should read that...

[Turin Turambar]

# # vote Rags

[TheRagnarok]

Morning all.

@Rags

No, my target is not told that they have been jailed.
As far as I'm aware, it functions like a roleblocker+doc, nothing less, nothing more. No fancy stuff.

And yup my theory is that one of your teammates sent the kill and you tried to take credit cause you're the GF. Fun and safe... normally.

As for N1 not having two kills, there are a lot of plausible explanations for that. I don't think we got enough info to figure out what happened. So theorizing about that prolly a waste of breath.

Going to work, see you guys later.

Your theory, once again, makes no sense.  Why take that risk when a teammate could get cleared as that would be even safer.  Totally illogical.

 

 

@Rags

No, my target is not told that they have been jailed.
As far as I'm aware, it functions like a roleblocker+doc, nothing less, nothing more. No fancy stuff.

And yup my theory is that one of your teammates sent the kill and you tried to take credit cause you're the GF. Fun and safe... normally.

As for N1 not having two kills, there are a lot of plausible explanations for that. I don't think we got enough info to figure out what happened. So theorizing about that prolly a waste of breath.

Going to work, see you guys later.

 

If there are 2 teams like you are supposing, a lot of times they alternate kills.

 

No alternating here.  And I did no action N1...ssoooo...my role is responsible.  Therefore, no jailing.

 

Alright so CS's claim def throws a wrinkle into things, and atm I'm inclined to believe it since it could explain why he has been going after Rags so strong today. However, even if he is telling the truth, it doesn't necessarily mean Rags is mafia.

 

Now, to weigh in really quick- I don't really like some of Rags reaction to this news, like for instance how he tried defending himself by saying no one else had come forward and claimed to have been Jailed... even tho Mish had already explained that we don't usually find out from the mod if we're Jailed on DM, and also ignoring the fact that it was never proven that there is a redirector role, or that even if someone was Jailed instead, and knew it, they still might not want to reveal (if they were scum or a PR trying to stay hidden). I also really don't like how Rags announced his target for tonight beforehand, struck me as very scummy. Firstly it's antitown to announce your targets beforehand in pretty much any situation. Second, it could have been to try and make himself look more town ("I'm so convinced this guy is scum for going after poor innocent me that Imma kill him tonight!"). Lastly, it's completely ignoring the possibility that CS is town as well as Rags, and that there is a redirector ability or something that caused the confusion.

 

That being said, I still think Darthe is the better lynch today. Here's why:

 

Lynch Darthe, and...

1. He flips scum, which would mean that Peace is either scum or an Insane Cop. So we'd either get two scum, or a kind of vetted Insane Cop, which is really just as useful as a normal Cop once verified. Another possibility would be that there is a redirector ability of some kind.

2. He flips town, and we have strong evidence that Peace is either scum that fake CC'ed, a "hard" Cop (which I personally find extremely unlikely, considering the rarity of the role, and the known presence of a Deputy and myself as a Cop as well), or that their is a redirector role of some kind that fooled with Peace's results.

 

Lynch Rags and...

1. He flips scum, and we'd pretty much have CS vetted as a Jailkeeper, and possibly know of the presence of another mafia team (unlikely tome given theme, the format of Wombat listing Cloud as mafia, and the size of the game).

2. He flips town, and we'd have strong evidence that either CS is mafia, who fake claimed mebbe to save teammate Darthe, or that there is some kind of redirector ability present.

 

Basically, we get a lot more out of either scenario in Darthe's lynch. So I'm keeping my vote on him. I still have a town viewing on Rags, with at least one GF already dead, so for now I'm.... ooh quick thought- Rags could be a Nexus. Could explain both my town view on him, as well as CS Jailing him but apparently not preventing the kill. Nexus is kinda OP tho, doubt the scum team would have both a GF AND a Nexus... which brings us again back to the possibility of a second mafia team. Grrrrr. Anyways, until we get evidence of a second mafia team, or until it becomes apparent that town is powered heavily enough to justify a scum team having both a GF AND a Mirror or Nexus, I'm trusting my viewing on him. As with Tina.

1.  At the home forum, we usually get notification about redirection/jailings/etc. via night PM so difference there.

2.  Like my response, don't like it, not the issue.  The issue is that none of what Csarmi has said has made any logical sense whatsoever.

3.  Anyone with a brain knows I'm targeting Csarmi tonight whether I announce it or not. 

 

So why aren't we lynching Rags again?

Cause I'm town and you are lying.

 

I did, but I can't see why we would get more from Darthe's lynch. The second two options look much better to me. Especially when I'm pretty sure that Rags will flip scum - I don't understand how he could be town either, especially not from Despo's reasonign above.

I'll try to go deeper into that when I got some time, now I gotta commute home.

*headdesk*

 

Also I don't know what a Nexus is. I suppose I should read that...

I dunno that role either.

[TheRagnarok]

Csarmi's theory is that, in basically the first post of the day, I took credit for a scummate's kill to try and clear myself as townie.  Without knowing any night actions that could have happened to me and without waiting for anyone else to give any info from the night phase.  That would be incredibly stupid when said scummate could just clear themselves with the same fakeclaim as they had actually performed the kill and known that no one would counter it.  I would have to have a room temperature IQ to do that as it could screw over my entire team. 

 

The other option is that I am in fact responsible for the kill.  Which either means CPR Doc as I said or SK as Darthe said early on.  But either way, it means that Csarmi is lying about jailing me. 

[csarmi]

Rags, those teammates wouldn't be godfathers bow would they? Surely you get why its a good idea to make such s claim on the GF of the team.

 

Oh I'm pretty sure you do.

 

You're scum. Go ahead and no me tonight. I don't expect to leave you see.

 

In fact, my death confirms you as scum. So go ahead.

 

The good thing about being town is that you can take dying. I fully expect to, as jailkeepers can't defend themselves.

[TheRagnarok]

Godfather's bow? 

 

And your theory is that instead of letting my supposed teammate, who actually pulled off the kill, take credit for it with the same fakeclaim I used...I instead took credit myself without knowing anything about what anyone did during the night phase which would open myself up to the possibility of something like this.  That would be idiotic.  Your theory makes zero logical sense. 

[csarmi]

@Rags: nice fake claim BTW. Ballsy, especially with a Vig already flipped.

[Turin Turambar]

 

Did you not read this, Csarmi?

 

 

Alright so CS's claim def throws a wrinkle into things, and atm I'm inclined to believe it since it could explain why he has been going after Rags so strong today. However, even if he is telling the truth, it doesn't necessarily mean Rags is mafia.

 

Now, to weigh in really quick- I don't really like some of Rags reaction to this news, like for instance how he tried defending himself by saying no one else had come forward and claimed to have been Jailed... even tho Mish had already explained that we don't usually find out from the mod if we're Jailed on DM, and also ignoring the fact that it was never proven that there is a redirector role, or that even if someone was Jailed instead, and knew it, they still might not want to reveal (if they were scum or a PR trying to stay hidden). I also really don't like how Rags announced his target for tonight beforehand, struck me as very scummy. Firstly it's antitown to announce your targets beforehand in pretty much any situation. Second, it could have been to try and make himself look more town ("I'm so convinced this guy is scum for going after poor innocent me that Imma kill him tonight!"). Lastly, it's completely ignoring the possibility that CS is town as well as Rags, and that there is a redirector ability or something that caused the confusion.

 

That being said, I still think Darthe is the better lynch today. Here's why:

 

Lynch Darthe, and...

1. He flips scum, which would mean that Peace is either scum or an Insane Cop. So we'd either get two scum, or a kind of vetted Insane Cop, which is really just as useful as a normal Cop once verified. Another possibility would be that there is a redirector ability of some kind.

2. He flips town, and we have strong evidence that Peace is either scum that fake CC'ed, a "hard" Cop (which I personally find extremely unlikely, considering the rarity of the role, and the known presence of a Deputy and myself as a Cop as well), or that their is a redirector role of some kind that fooled with Peace's results.

 

Lynch Rags and...

1. He flips scum, and we'd pretty much have CS vetted as a Jailkeeper, and possibly know of the presence of another mafia team (unlikely tome given theme, the format of Wombat listing Cloud as mafia, and the size of the game).

2. He flips town, and we'd have strong evidence that either CS is mafia, who fake claimed mebbe to save teammate Darthe, or that there is some kind of redirector ability present.

 

Basically, we get a lot more out of either scenario in Darthe's lynch. So I'm keeping my vote on him. I still have a town viewing on Rags, with at least one GF already dead, so for now I'm.... ooh quick thought- Rags could be a Nexus. Could explain both my town view on him, as well as CS Jailing him but apparently not preventing the kill. Nexus is kinda OP tho, doubt the scum team would have both a GF AND a Nexus... which brings us again back to the possibility of a second mafia team. Grrrrr. Anyways, until we get evidence of a second mafia team, or until it becomes apparent that town is powered heavily enough to justify a scum team having both a GF AND a Mirror or Nexus, I'm trusting my viewing on him. As with Tina.

 

The info from a Rags lynch looks more conclusive than the info from a Darthe lynch IMO. Also as Rags is a claimed killer (to me CPR doc is really just a vig that might have his kill fail if someone else targets the same person)  

 

Also, my 2 cents on the double cops issue. It makes more sense to me that if one is flawed the other could be more powered. I have been in games with a cop that couldn't be misdirected so I can see that it is possible to have one where the cop can see thru a GF. Additionally if one is faking I am leaning more likely that it is Despo (who will say I am tunneling on him). I will go through why I think that later as it is not going to be a case where either cop claim is lynched this day I think.

 

 As far as Rags v. Darthe: if we are going to test one or the other, I think Rags flips (either way, but I am leaning he is more likely to be mafia than Darthe) will provide more and better information about more people. It gives a much clearer view of Despo's cop ability (i did notice that the quality of his view is NOT mentioned in the rag flips information) some info on CS's claim  (although I don't really see how it is there to save Darthe. One could say the same about Despo's claim being an attempt to save Rags) 

 

Thanks for the list Tina. Despo you said you viewed Rags N1 and Tina N2 right?

[csarmi]

Stay out of....what?

 

Also...are you really suggesting that I'm scum with the faction whose Godfather I JUST KILLED? Holy shit are you retarded?

QFA.

[TheRagnarok]

@Rags: nice fake claim BTW. Ballsy, especially with a Vig already flipped.

Way to not respond to anything I just said.

 

You know that nothing you've said makes any sense so you're trying to get one more townie gone before you get lynched next day phase. 

[TheRagnarok]

 

Stay out of....what?

 

Also...are you really suggesting that I'm scum with the faction whose Godfather I JUST KILLED? Holy shit are you retarded?

QFA.

 

Well...it was a very stupid theory.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

Salami(2): Ragnarok, Peace
Despo(1): Darthe
Rags(2): Salami, Turin
Darthe(4): Leelou, Despo, Andrej, Mish
Andrej(1): Pralaya

Not voting:  Tina


6 to lynch.  Deadline is tonight at 7 PM EST (just over 6 hours from now).

[Niniel]

I believe Csarmi but I still don´t get why Rag would claim a kill that he didn´t commit. Maybe Csarmi was blocked? But our roleblocker has claimed to have only one shot. I don´t know.... 

 

##Vote Darthe

 

It was weird that Peace didn´t want to lynch him. That is why I´m voting Darthe but also because I have no idea what to do right now and we need a lynch. 

[csarmi]

I believe Csarmi but I still don´t get why Rag would claim a kill that he didn´t commit. Maybe Csarmi was blocked? But our roleblocker has claimed to have only one shot. I don´t know.... 

 

##Vote Darthe

 

It was weird that Peace didn´t want to lynch him. That is why I´m voting Darthe but also because I have no idea what to do right now and we need a lynch.

@Tina - because he's a godfather and knew that he was "safe" as in from cop views. So claiming the kill should be a good move. Having a kill with a "confirmed town" title (what he was going for) is golden for any scum team. Again, a ballsy move. I like it, actually.

[csarmi]

 

@Rags: nice fake claim BTW. Ballsy, especially with a Vig already flipped.

Way to not respond to anything I just said.

 

You know that nothing you've said makes any sense so you're trying to get one more townie gone before you get lynched next day phase.

 

So what should I be responding to? Your posts today is mostly about threatening me, trying to lynch me, then when you are called out, you're all about how your move wouldn't make sense for a scum.

 

We all know the "oh I wouldn't do that as scum now would I" argument, right?

[Niniel]

 

I believe Csarmi but I still don´t get why Rag would claim a kill that he didn´t commit. Maybe Csarmi was blocked? But our roleblocker has claimed to have only one shot. I don´t know.... 

 

##Vote Darthe

 

It was weird that Peace didn´t want to lynch him. That is why I´m voting Darthe but also because I have no idea what to do right now and we need a lynch.

@Tina - because he's a godfather and knew that he was "safe" as in from cop views. So claiming the kill should be a good move. Having a kill with a "confirmed town" title (what he was going for) is golden for any scum team. Again, a ballsy move. I like it, actually.

 

 

Okay, I see what you mean. That would mean that we have two GFs though. Do you still think we have two teams?