[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

[hazelkrs1]

Oh and I forgot to address one thing:

 

Yes, Tina overexplaining her vote on Verb didn't really sit right with me. But overall her game has seemed protown to me. Someone even mentioned it themselves, Mish mebbe, that she is much more inquisitive as town. I've seen her askin g questions and looking to clarify things. This fits right within her town meta. That being said, I can have a town read on someone yet still have something they did not sit right with me.

[hazelkrs1]

My reads:

 

1.  Pralaya - townish

2.  Lenlo - meh. Needs to step it up big time.

4.  Darthe - scum

5.  Salami - leaning scummish actually

7.  Peace - meh. Also needs to step it up. Did defend Darthe yesterday tho, asked me how Darthe could be forcing his meta...

8.  Mish - scummish

9.  Des - hardcore town

10.  Tina - town

12.  Ragnarok - town

14.  Leelou - townish

15.  Andrej - scum

[Andrej]

 

Face it, Cloud. You are scum every day 1 no matter what. 

 

#cloudisalwaysscum

 

true.

 

 

lol

[csarmi]

Actually I think Len disappeared completely.

[csarmi]

OK, I'm inactive as hell too, pot & kettle, I know. But I mean, he just haven't even posted for days.

 

This is his last post here:

 

 

No wonder you don't drink.

Truly shocking. It still doesnt change how bad it tastes though.

 

His last login to DM was 12 hours ago. He was completely inactive on DM, however, in fact, he only posted once since the 23rd... on the 27th of november.

 

Now Len does like to disappear as scum to hide. Same when he's being town under pressure too.

 

But I don't think that's what's going on here. He just went plain inactive. Null tell there.

[Andrej]

 

Lol you're a prick Des

 

Again, you refuse to bring any solid evidence against me or even attempt to show how my points against you are wrong. You simply just dismiss it and use words like 'uberscummy' as if that is compensation.

 

On Cloud: if you're going to say that by me stating I could go either way on him is telling, how would you consider your defense of him on D1? You and other players have all mentioned that it is normal for Cloud to open up games in that manner. I agree, and therefore he was null to me. Additionally, who was the loudest player declaring Cloud as scum? Verb. Someone that you made damn sure to help lynch yesterday.

 

On Leelou: How is she so suddenly a Town read for you? As I showed above, you had her with me and Darthe as the scum team. Are you going to actually provide some sort of explanation or reasoning here?

 

On Rag: Darthe's points are valid. We've already had one Town Vig show up, so him being suspicious of a second isn't illogical in my mind. It's not a stretch to think Rag claimed the kill since he hit scum in order to gain Town cred. Risky, of course, and I agree with you on the point that he's now in the open.

 

In short, you're scum. I know I'm Town, I'm reading Darthe and Mish (lesser through circumstance) as Town as well. You continue to target players that I am reading as Town or have since flipped as Town. You also named our only proven Mafia member as Town and are now using his linkage to Mish as a reason to push her lynch when you are literally guilty of the exact same thing. You say a lot of words but there's really nothing to them but generalizations. Your info is fake, you know it and I know it.

 

I've cased you more than once, and shown examples of you being scummy.

 

As far as Cloud goes, yes, I did think he was town early D1 for meta reasons. I did start to go back on that tho and ended up changing my mind. Didn't have a strong scum read on him, but def didn't feel as good about him as I did initially. Either way, I stated my feelings about him very clearly each time, instead of fence-sit on him, which you did.

 

I meant to say Pray and Leelou in my last post, not Pray and Tina. Pray voted an outlier at the end, Leelou said she would hammer but never voted him. Obviously my reasoning for thinking she was town wouldn't make sense for Tina, you should have been able to pick up on that, You're reaching for w/e you can to make me look scummy.

 

There are multiple possible killing roles out there besides just Vig and SK. And nothing says there can only be one Vig, in my game in the BT there were four. A SK is ALWAYS best served staying hidden. Claiming a kill for town cred makes no sense. What happens when town thinks all scum is dead but the game still goes on? They lynch the dude who claimed a kill in case he's a SK. It's not illogical to be suspicious of Rag because a Vig already flipped, but Darthe's reasoning about using his RM shot on him N1 is. I actually think Darthe might be a RB'er, but is a scum one.

 

What gives you a town read on Darthe and Mish?

 

I didn't have the same type of interaction with Cloud that Mish did. But even if I did, being a hypocrite wouldn't make me scum. I could have had a genuine interaction with him, whereas theirs was staged.

 

Again, you're grasping at straws to try to make me look scummy. It won't work.

 

 

1. Can you show where you have stated your feelings clearly about Cloud? I don't remember seeing anywhere that you were suspicious of him. I won't retract my statement where I said I could go either way. If need be, I could go back and pull up a quote where I pointed out how him switching from me to Verb as the two largest wagons stood out to me though.

 

2. Pretty big difference between Leelou and Tina. You can say that you have them mixed up but I can also choose not to believe you. And I'm not reaching at all here. I'm quoting you directly and giving my opinions based on your actions this game. Nothing I have said is untrue. Like I have already said, you talk a lot. It's up to us to decide whether we believe you or not. I happen to not.

 

3. That's a big cup of WIFOM that I think we can sip on later. Like I said earlier, I'm cool with Rag sitting on the back burner. Regardless of how you wanna spin it, he's a conf-killer. I agree that he strikes me as Town based on his play but I would expect an experienced player like himself to act accordingly.

 

4. Darthe is more gut. Most of his reads have been correct thus far (Town and Mafia) and the way he went after Rag after he claimed the Cloud kill seemed genuine. If he says he used his RB on him N1 and now a 2nd NK turns up N2 when Rag was no longer blocked, I believe him. He contested Rag based on information that he had that we collectively didn't. Again with Mish it is more circumstantial. I have seen Cloud allow people to buddy/defend him as scum in the past. Happened during the Underworld game, actually, to bring that up again. You being one of my scum reads and now listing Mish as yours kind of reinforces this.

 

5. In regards to the interactions, I meant it more along the lines of you both buddying him and then voting on Verb who had Cloud as his scum read.

[csarmi]

@Des - why do you think AJ is scummy? I never seen the case on him. Though I do admit that I'm not following the game closely enough. Must have skimmed something there?

[csarmi]

@AJ - #4: you know who has most of their reads correct, right?

[Andrej]

Yes.

[michellem]

First of all Re: Rags claim, I've seen games both with Vigs, and JOATs or Dreaming God (I think that's the role I'm thinking about). So whatever, he can stay for a while in my opinion. He's proven he has good instincts.

 

 

Mish I think could be scum because of her exchange with Cloud before day broke... looked like it could have been a gambit to me. Came out of left field, and Cloud suddenly starts casing Mish right after she mentions her "ploy" with him... yet the case was weak as hell, and Mish didn't even really respond to it. Mish is an emotional player like me, and would likely have LOVED to tear the case apart, yet didn't because there'd be no need at that point if it was a gambit. And I also don't like her saying she's off her game this game, and has just followed peeps. Reeks of her trying to keep herself from being held accountable for her actions ("But I was just following Player X you guys!").

 

 

Errm, no? The only one who's accountable for my actions are me. If I'm following someone, and they're wrong, that's on me for not getting deeply enough into the game. You haven't seen me try to blame you for me voting Verbal again, have you? It was your case that convinced me to, but I'm not holding you accountable for it. I chose to vote.

 

I didn't really have any reasons to pick at Cloud's case, he spoke alot of truth, even if he misrepresented the reasons behind my actions. I haven't been acting like I usually do, I've played a bad game so far, so why should I defend from someone pointing it out? I do know when to suck it up and admit I've screwed up.

[Andrej]

 

 

And a love has blossomed.  Funny how often passion arises from anger.

 

 

 

 

 

I already stated my suspicion of Mish. She has done some buddying on D1 and then her contradiction when agreeing with Peace that scum normally wouldn't be aggressive D1 after stating it was reason enough to keep her eye on me. Also pointed out earlier how her statement on Cloud's tells gives her room to change her stance on him later.

 

 

 

I was talking with Peace in general terms. But I'm always wary of what I feel is change in metas. Some people get more aggresive as mafia, others get more passive. I'm not used to seeing you this aggresive that early in a game, and so it caught my attention.

 

I also decided to try the same tactis on Cloud that I often try on Des... Some buddying to see if he called me out on it. I think he would have as mafia, as town I think he'll be more likely to just keep an eye on me to see if it went over the line so it becomes a scumtell from me. Of course I don't think it works on Des anymore, since I've explained that I do it But it gave me a good feeling about Cloud that he mostly ignored it.

 

 

 

I was starting to get a bad feeling from Mish and so I decided to ISO her and see what comes up. One of the things that I noticed was that she has been following other people around a lot (especially on her scum reads), and appears uncertain about her town reads. She isn't giving nearly as much original thoughts as I usually expect from her, and instead it looks like she is almost trying to disappear in the crowd.

 

She has been following the crowd a lot in this game and it is something that I'm not used to seeing from her at all. The Mish I know who plays Mafia always comes up with original thoughts and great cases, and her now trying to hide away in the masses in this game is pinging a lot.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86104-advanced-tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-mafia-night-2/?view=findpost&p=3092428

She agrees with someone else on Verbal. She says that he keeps switching his reason for why he thinks I'm scummy, and he doesn't speak about much else than that. She then votes for him.

 

The issue I again have with this post is that she is again following someone else (in this case me after I first called Verbal out on that he kept changing his story regarding his vote on me).

 

 

Mish I think could be scum because of her exchange with Cloud before day broke... looked like it could have been a gambit to me. Came out of left field, and Cloud suddenly starts casing Mish right after she mentions her "ploy" with him... yet the case was weak as hell, and Mish didn't even really respond to it. Mish is an emotional player like me, and would likely have LOVED to tear the case apart, yet didn't because there'd be no need at that point if it was a gambit. And I also don't like her saying she's off her game this game, and has just followed peeps. Reeks of her trying to keep herself from being held accountable for her actions ("But I was just following Player X you guys!").

 

Another thing I just noticed.

 

Are you seriously using the same argument that Cloud did to try and incriminate Mish here? I've bolded in both posts where you two are speaking on her following the crowd.

 

Lol... scum.

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

Krak, Tracer Bullet (because I can), Vanilla Town, has been killed.

I don't think you could be any sexier to me right now.

[Darthe]

:0 DI'd des just use something that happened in the future of an ecent to retroactively clear tgat person?

 

Yes, yes he did.

[csarmi]

OK so I'm watching the movie right now. 30 minutes in and I understand nothing of it. No wonder I fell asleep the last time.

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

Ragnarok(1): Darthe
Despo(1): Andrej
Darthe(1): Despo

 

6 to lynch.

 

I've been a bit lax on activity standards due to Thanksgiving/weekend, but if some people don't start to pick it up on Monday, they may not live very long.

[WWWwombat]

Not voting:  Pralaya, Lenlo, Salami, Peace, Mish, Tina, Ragnarok, Leelou

[Darthe]

Nobody is listening for crap this game. Fine, you all can die for it. I found one and you're just going to ignore ot because he says he has some claim that he refuses to reveal. When has that ever been an acceptable town play to this group?

[Andrej]

Nobody said it was acceptable Darthe.

 

We are just collectively agreeing that he can wait for later.

 

Help me lynch Des instead.

[Darthe]

Not until we get this info. Mafia 101 you don't let any agent confirmed by actions to be suspect get time to perfect their retort.

 

This gets resolved. Now. Before he has days to craft a fake claim and do so woth no pressure.

[Leelou]

We should lynch Tina or Salami. 

 

Tina was tunneled on AJ and then turned to Verbal. She is asking a lot of the other players what they think but she really isn't putting to many of her own thoughts out there except that Verbal had to be lynched. 

 

##vote Tina

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

Ragnarok(1): Darthe
Despo(1): Andrej
Darthe(1): Despo
Tina(1): Leelou

Not voting:  Pralaya, Lenlo, Salami, Peace, Mish, Tina, Ragnarok

6 to lynch.  Deadline will probably be on Tuesday night or Wednesday morning.

[Darthe]

And ignored.

 

Leelou, Rag,_____

 

Maybe len or des.

 

Book it.

[Leelou]

I asked Rag to clarify his role in my earlier post. 

[Leelou]

I'll reread the thread this afternoon, but wow Des is a bucket full of either mistakes or contradictions there. Still not trusting Tina in the least. She sat on AJ Day 1 then started a push in on Verbal, pushed on him during the night and I want to double check if she did any hunting outside of just pushing Verbal's lynch Day 2. Still liking Salami for scum. I'll be back this afternoon with a vote after I get a chance to read everything and jot down some notes. 

 

Rags - care to clarify your role for us? Good shot, btw. 

[peacesells]

Considering the Vig is dead...and Rag only reason for shooting cloud was a "gut feeling" I'm inclined to believe Darthe.

 

##VOTE RAG