[Basic] Weasley vs Malfoy at the Ministry - Game over - Weasleys win

[Darthe]

Ishy is cult leader?

[peacesells]

Ishy is cult leader?

Harem leader.

[Leelou]

I don't belong to Ishy's harem. 

[Darthe]

I speak only in mafia

[peacesells]

I don't belong to Ishy's harem. 

 

Either you haven't been recruited yet..or you are out on loan.

[Songstress]

 

Wait.....how many belong to Ishy now?

 

All of them at last count.  He recruits.

 

 

The man's insatiable.

[Darthe]

Cannot respond appropriately to that remark.

[Leelou]

 

I don't belong to Ishy's harem. 

 

Either you haven't been recruited yet..or you are out on loan.

 

 

Neither, just fine where I am. 

[hazelkrs1]

Woohoo! Great game town!

 

 

Oh and

 

 

csarmi

20-11-2013

07:25 CET

I told you Despo was awesome.

*** psst don't tell him ***

 

 

Re: Basic/not basic, balance - I would say it was a standard game, not basic, and slightly unbalanced. Mafia was slightly underpowered (should have had a GF, and btw GF's are pretty common in basic games), and the polyjuice mechanic (not to mention the ghost mechanic) def put this in non-basic territory imo. As CS said in the dead thread, it's not just which roles are allowed which makes games basic, it's also usually understood that the mechanics will be fairly straightforward as well. In a basic game, players aren't generally expected to figure out the mechanics of the game first, they should be able to focus solely on scumhunting/sowing wifom. Which leads me to my next point:

 

Re: Mass claim idea which continued to dominate discussion in the dead thread after CS was lynched: I got a new name for something I see certain players do A LOT. Gadgeting. It's used in some sport circles to describe something which some team, coach, or player is trying to do in a way to "break" the concept of the game, i.e. give them a statistical advantage they could not otherwise get. Like the coach who never punts (and always kicks onside kicks). Or the college basketball team that only shoots threes.

 

The thing is, gadgeting may be fun for the people who think of those tricks. But guess what? It usually aint fun for everyone else. Now, I'm all for progress, and creative minds trying to think of tricks like that is the reason we're the most dominant species on the planet. But in some situations, I think gadgeting is basically inappropriate.

 

Mafia was created as somewhat of a psychology experiment in Moscow, designed to play on everyone's collective paranoia and the intrinsic properties of language that allow for subtext and deception. When players "gadget" a game and try to figure out some kind of mathematical way to "break" the game, it COMPLETELY defeats the point of playing the game in the purpose. I don't play mafia to do games with numbers, I play games with numbers for that. I play mafia because it is fun learning how to read between the lines and find things based on intuition and powers of deduction.

 

I understand some players play the game for different reasons, and perhaps people like CSarmi get a certain kind of thrill out of figuring out how to "break" the mechanics of the game, but I just feel like a version of this argument happens in too many games. The overexcited mathematician realizes they found some glorious way to open a hole in the game's design to help their team win, and everyone else tells them to shove it.

 

CS, in this case, everyone else is right. It's not just trying to win, it's trying to win while having fun. If I tracked down and blackmailed every game mod until they gave me a list of either the mafia or the town PR's, I'd win a lot. But I'd also be a psychopath, and not really playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

 

So even if your theories are occasionally correct, please understand WHY people don't really like hearing them. They ARE a distraction, and they help to ruin the game for them.

 

 

Re: Me saying you're obvious scum - Others have said it, but I didn't do anything different as far as that goes this game. I always use wording like that. My thinking is that far too many players are too passive when they play, they say they're voting "for pressure", or that "they think" this person could be mafia, but aren't sure. I try to compensate for that with the way I play. I've always been argumentative, and very wordy (some might say eloquent ), but I didn't start playing aggressive initially. It wasn't until I saw how so many mafia members played it Joe Cool when people pushed for their lynch at times, because they knew that they could wriggle out of it fairly easily, and that people might not return to their original suspicions (btw, I love playing in a way that supports this concept as mafia; get early heat on you, get out of it, then coast for a while).

 

I call people obvious scum, and generally act aggressive, especially at the start of games, to make up for others not being aggressive enough, at least in my view. Sorry if it bothers you, it's nothing personal and you yourself have scolded others for not having thicker skin in mafia games. I think that me saying someone is "obvious scum" might make them sweat just a bit, whereas others soft fos'ing or voting that guy for pressure prob won't. Getting someone to sweat is half the battle, once you do that it's generally much easier to read them (and if they're your enemy, they're much more likely to make mistakes). Not trying to brag, but I def take a good deal of enjoyment reading mafia QT's after a game, because if I played a good game, chances are they were cursing my name in the QT and not using as good of judgement as they would normally.

 

Anyhoo. Good game everyone!

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

I don't belong to Ishy's harem. 

 

Either you haven't been recruited yet..or you are out on loan.

 

 

Neither, just fine where I am. 

 

 

Oh yeah, and true story: I once recruited Leelou to my vampire harem, only to eventually see her run away from it faster than Katie Holmes from Scientology

 

[Leelou]

 

 

 

I don't belong to Ishy's harem. 

 

Either you haven't been recruited yet..or you are out on loan.

 

 

Neither, just fine where I am. 

 

 

Oh yeah, and true story: I once recruited Leelou to my vampire harem, only to eventually see her run away from it faster than Katie Holmes from Scientology

 

 

 

I was the first one there, it's once you brought others in I fled.  

[csarmi]

@Despo. Good points about gadgeting. I love playing games as effectively as possible. Love "breaking" them.

 

Also, I'm a maximalist. So if a loophole exists, I'll try and find it.

 

But there's a fairly easy way to ensure that maffia stays a psychological game. A game that isn't broken. Just make the rules so.

 

Don't base stuff on flavour. Don't make the roles 100% foreseeable. Have correct claim mechanics. Don't overcomplicate things.

 

Its the mod's job to build a system that's not abusable and as fair and maffia like as possible.

 

Its not the players' job.

[csarmi]

Calling me obvious scum won't help you catch maffia BTW. Only way that could bother me is if I'm town.

 

Or is that a reverse method?

 

And no, you never acted like that to me before.

 

Its very unfun. I was 100% truthful about that. Also, as I said, it was that you DECIDED I was scum and kept saying that in every bloody post of yours. Seriously. Read them.

 

Back to game mechanics. I'm very glad to play in a game that can't be exploited. But I always wanna know the rules explicitly.

[Niniel]

Yay! Good play, town. 

 

Thanks for the game, Thorum. 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Oh yeah, and true story: I once recruited Leelou to my vampire harem, only to eventually see her run away from it faster than Katie Holmes from Scientology

 

 

I was the first one there, it's once you brought others in I fled.

 

Ohhh yeahhhhh now I remember. Which title of mine did you help originate? I wanna say werewolf... it was in the 100k 200k 300k thread.

 

@Despo. Good points about gadgeting. I love playing games as effectively as possible. Love "breaking" them.

 

Also, I'm a maximalist. So if a loophole exists, I'll try and find it.

 

But there's a fairly easy way to ensure that maffia stays a psychological game. A game that isn't broken. Just make the rules so.

 

Don't base stuff on flavour. Don't make the roles 100% foreseeable. Have correct claim mechanics. Don't overcomplicate things.

 

Its the mod's job to build a system that's not abusable and as fair and maffia like as possible.

 

Its not the players' job.

 

That's fine about you being a maximalist, but in this case looking for a loophole often defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place.

 

And come on man. You know that it's much easier said than done to just "make the rules so" that the game can't be broken. Mostly that would just mean keeping every game basic. For any games with advanced mechanics, trying to stay ahead of "maximalists" who try to look for loopholes to break the game mechanics aint that easy.

 

And I also don't like you trying to put the onus on the mod to be responsible for preventing players from gadgeting his setup. YOU should be responsible for your own actions, if you're trying to break the game, and that bothers most other players, YOU should make the choice to stop.

 

If anything, I like mods that try to break the mold when designing their games. That's one of the fun things about playing a game that can be so fluid, and those games are always the most memorable. And yet, mods have to worry about players like you trying to "break" their setup, so may end up having to ditch certain elements they would have liked to put in.

 

It's the player's job to play the game. I've heard you say many times how much you hold yourself accountable for holding to "the spirit" of the game and not using certain tactics you find dishonorable, and yet your actions say otherwise. I see you constantly stepping outside the "spirit" of the game when you try using tactics which most players would never think of using (gadgeting to break the setup). I understand you're a math guy, and you like looking for creative ways to explore something, but again, there are times that this isn't appropriate.

 

Calling me obvious scum won't help you catch maffia BTW. Only way that could bother me is if I'm town.

 

Or is that a reverse method?

 

And no, you never acted like that to me before.

 

Its very unfun. I was 100% truthful about that. Also, as I said, it was that you DECIDED I was scum and kept saying that in every bloody post of yours. Seriously. Read them.

 

Back to game mechanics. I'm very glad to play in a game that can't be exploited. But I always wanna know the rules explicitly.

 

Calling you obvious scum won't help catch mafia? And yet, you yourself say that it's more likely to bother you as town instead of mafia. So what if I knew that, and was using it to try and determine if you were town or not, then used process of elimination to find the actual scum? Wouldn't that be using that phrase to help catch mafia?

 

I have said it before to you, but you prob didn't notice cause you were focused more on defending yourself from someone else or something.

 

Also, to be frank, I'll admit that I've enjoyed trolling you at times. To be honest, I think you deserve it. You don't always exhibit the best sportsmanship when playing mafia, and yet you're old enough and smart enough to know that you should. You tend to always focus on yourself in mafia games, and that if only people listened to you all the time, everything would be better. And yet, town is often able to win without you, after you've long ago been lynched. Just gotta try to look at the big picture sometimes.

 

In this game, for example, you getting lynched day 1 might have been the best thing for town. It let me know my partner was most likely scum, and gave me a great help in catching Verbal from there (he did warn Verbal about me being onto him in the QT, tho he didn't say to stop buddying). And we ended up steamrolling the mafia team. Yet you complained a good deal on the QT about being lynched, even when it looked like town had the game in hand.

[hazelkrs1]

Btw, you're not the only one who focuses a bit too much on himself in mafia games. I used to be pretty bad about that myself, and still am to a degree. It's part of the reason I play high profile, it's easier for me to read other players based on their reaction to my play.

[Leelou]

@Despo. Good points about gadgeting. I love playing games as effectively as possible. Love "breaking" them.

 

Also, I'm a maximalist. So if a loophole exists, I'll try and find it.

 

But there's a fairly easy way to ensure that maffia stays a psychological game. A game that isn't broken. Just make the rules so.

 

Don't base stuff on flavour. Don't make the roles 100% foreseeable. Have correct claim mechanics. Don't overcomplicate things.

 

Its the mod's job to build a system that's not abusable and as fair and maffia like as possible.

 

Its not the players' job.

 

I'm one of those people that absolutely hates the way you break games and I don't find it enjoyable to play that way. A bastard game would be different, that one you need to look for all the loopholes to figure out how to win the game. An advanced or basic game, no. As a mod, I can tell you it is quite frustrating when you do what you can to break games. My RE game had me just as annoyed as it did Verbal at times from the way you were playing it. A mod shouldn't have to put rules in place saying you can't do this and that about mechanics because sometimes they are a surprise for how the game plays out. You looking to break the game is actually pretty shitty and honestly, I don't know if I'd ever sign up in any other game you play if that's all you desire to do. Flavor makes the game fun for people, to get to play out their favorite themes. Don't tell mods how to run games that you can't break. Quite a few of us have been modding for quite some time and have had years of successful games. 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and true story: I once recruited Leelou to my vampire harem, only to eventually see her run away from it faster than Katie Holmes from Scientology

 

 

I was the first one there, it's once you brought others in I fled.

 

Ohhh yeahhhhh now I remember. Which title of mine did you help originate? I wanna say werewolf... it was in the 100k 200k 300k thread.

 

 

Werewolf, the others you were pretty established with. Also, I agree with the rest of the wordy stuff Des posted. 

[hazelkrs1]

Funny thing is, I look for loopholes in just about anything else in life. But not games, that defeats the point. I'm competitive, but at the end of the day games are meant to be enjoyed and have fun with others, that's not really a place for loopholes.

 

But then again, what if you could print you OWN monopoly money...

 

[hazelkrs1]

Oh, and *rawr* @ Leelou

 

 

[michellem]

Des' has good words *nods*

[Darthe]

Btw, you're not the only one who focuses a bit too much on himself in mafia games. I used to be pretty bad about that myself, and still am to a degree. It's part of the reason I play high profile, it's easier for me to read other players based on their reaction to my play.

I love playing with you for this. It cracks me up now when you try to call people out like "I see that Darthes arrogance has gone to his head again. Man up and play!" To stir some trouble. A less experienced me always got annoyed and took the bait.

[hazelkrs1]

Des' has good words *nods*

[hazelkrs1]

 

Btw, you're not the only one who focuses a bit too much on himself in mafia games. I used to be pretty bad about that myself, and still am to a degree. It's part of the reason I play high profile, it's easier for me to read other players based on their reaction to my play.

I love playing with you for this. It cracks me up now when you try to call people out like "I see that Darthes arrogance has gone to his head again. Man up and play!" To stir some trouble. A less experienced me always got annoyed and took the bait.

[hazelkrs1]

I'll give you this Darthe, you were prob one of the quickest to pick up on what my aggressiveness was for. Most think I'm a jerk for a lot longer

 

[Darthe]

:) We get each other methinks. And you play Bass which is awesome. Btw do you want to do a youtube collab sometime? I have a drummer and vocalist interested.