Greek Mythology: Man Vs. Gods [Advanced] - GAME OVER - TOWN WINS!

[csarmi]

Also, this is the cleanest game I got...

[Darthe]

I had to do it :p

 

In all honesty a vig shouldn't shoot until they are certain. You were in a bind because of that.

 

Good game man.

[csarmi]

I don't know. On the whole, the vig shots helped town even with the cop shot. Removing uncertainties from the game is a good policy.

 

I believe that the problem with the Vig was that we just didn't pressure enough people. Having a few more claims out there (or even just 1-2 more) would have helped. Vanilla claims are safe shots.

[csarmi]

In other words - we played a bad game on D2.

I still disagree with the Mish lynch. But even if we were set to do it, Cloud should have been pressed until reveal (then probably shot). What do you think?

[csarmi]

MCS's god hint was fun to play with. I'm sure he was up to something, but no idea what. Wanna ask him sometime.

 

Or maybe he just didn't know the difference between titans and gods.

[Darthe]

Lol

 

Mafia QT?

[Darthe]

Nobody ever says no to it being revealed :p

[_CLOUD]

Good game town :) Imo the Oracle role was broken, but I also know that if we had played differently things wouldn't have looked so dire for us. I should have never fake claimed a PR in my QT with Dice, and instead just said that I was Vanilla. That would have saved my ass. More importantly however I should have gotten lynched Day 1 instead of Des; that was perhaps the biggest mistake that I have made this game. I never expected Dice to reveal all the info so soon though, and thought that we had enough time to just NK us. I think that Dice played a great game though and he kept asking all the right questions, even when I thought that he couldn't possibly get any more info

[csarmi]

Cloud, I think that there were sevral factors working against you guys:

 

1) Krak being inactive was highly detrimental to your team. He was the only expendable member of your team, but you couldn't use him for anything. Thus, no one could be spared to do fake claims, for instance. Yes, maffia member being inactive is often a much bigger deal than that of a townie.

 

2) Despo getting killed D1 was huge blow. It took your most powerful role out. If he just lived one night, you could have used your Janitor on someone and make the setup foggy enough. No more titan-calc, no more safe PR claim.

 

3) You should have been lynched asap. NK'ing you or the oracle would have been a waste of action at any time and the oracle was super useful.

 

------------------------

 

... and inactivity strikes again.

 

Krak's whole game absence made his slot a joke and affected the game. Same with Song, but at least Dap made a very nice play replacing. Wine on the first few days, but at least he tried.

[Niniel]

I think you are right about that, Csarmi. It would have looked very different if Cloud would have died instead of Des. 

[dicetosser1]

Good game town :) Imo the Oracle role was broken, but I also know that if we had played differently things wouldn't have looked so dire for us. I should have never fake claimed a PR in my QT with Dice, and instead just said that I was Vanilla. That would have saved my ass. More importantly however I should have gotten lynched Day 1 instead of Des; that was perhaps the biggest mistake that I have made this game. I never expected Dice to reveal all the info so soon though, and thought that we had enough time to just NK us. I think that Dice played a great game though and he kept asking all the right questions, even when I thought that he couldn't possibly get any more info

 

Actually what u shoulda done was be more active in the QT. Thats what made me sus at first then you did speedlynch and my eyebrows came off my head. but then des reveal had me swing back to believing but not totally trusting you

[_CLOUD]

Cloud, I think that there were sevral factors working against you guys:

 

1) Krak being inactive was highly detrimental to your team. He was the only expendable member of your team, but you couldn't use him for anything. Thus, no one could be spared to do fake claims, for instance. Yes, maffia member being inactive is often a much bigger deal than that of a townie.

 

2) Despo getting killed D1 was huge blow. It took your most powerful role out. If he just lived one night, you could have used your Janitor on someone and make the setup foggy enough. No more titan-calc, no more safe PR claim.

 

3) You should have been lynched asap. NK'ing you or the oracle would have been a waste of action at any time and the oracle was super useful.

 

------------------------

 

... and inactivity strikes again.

 

Krak's whole game absence made his slot a joke and affected the game. Same with Song, but at least Dap made a very nice play replacing. Wine on the first few days, but at least he tried.

 

I agree with everything you just said, but you are wrong on the third point. Lynching Dice on Day 1 would have never worked because he would have revealed all the info before his death. The only safe way to take him out was to NK me, and maybe mask up my allignment with a Janitor shot. I should have started working on my own lynch the moment Dice started revealing all the info though, but for reason I didn't :/

 

 

Good game town :) Imo the Oracle role was broken, but I also know that if we had played differently things wouldn't have looked so dire for us. I should have never fake claimed a PR in my QT with Dice, and instead just said that I was Vanilla. That would have saved my ass. More importantly however I should have gotten lynched Day 1 instead of Des; that was perhaps the biggest mistake that I have made this game. I never expected Dice to reveal all the info so soon though, and thought that we had enough time to just NK us. I think that Dice played a great game though and he kept asking all the right questions, even when I thought that he couldn't possibly get any more info

 

Actually what u shoulda done was be more active in the QT. Thats what made me sus at first then you did speedlynch and my eyebrows came off my head. but then des reveal had me swing back to believing but not totally trusting you

 

 

I wasn't really expecting a big reaction from the speedlynch thing. I just did it because I was bored and people always expect me to at least do one stupid thing each game, and I have suggested it before as town so I had hoped it would at least give me some town cred among a few people. And yes I should have also been more active in our QT, instead of just spamming in the mafia one :P

 

 

 

Here are the QT's btw. I'm sure that everyone is ok with it being shared:

 

Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/nN4ErwKX5DE

 

Lover QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/mJMLjZVVwuJ9m

[Darthe]

Did I win?

[dapianoplay3r]

You should of killed cloud N1 imo

[csarmi]

Just read the QT's.

 

Yea Cloud, I think you should have stayed off the Despo lynch in the end, turning it random. Even if it outed you as a maffia both.

[WWWwombat]

D1 Janitor lynch was the biggest thing that hurt the mafia. Janitor shots could have made the Oracle much less powerful. Des should have claimed Cop imo. That would have bought him a night to try to Janitor the real Cop or a Titan.

[WWWwombat]

Also, to answer Salami's question, you should play less scummy. Being scummy can be good for avoiding the mafia NK but taking it too far means you get run up or shot. You took it way too far. Say what you want about how you tried to play, but you spent way too much time making anti-town arguments about Mish. You were towntelling hardcore early on but then burned all your towncred pretty quickly.

[Basel Gill]

Good game town. Thanks for winning.

[csarmi]

Also, to answer Salami's question, you should play less scummy. Being scummy can be good for avoiding the mafia NK but taking it too far means you get run up or shot. You took it way too far. Say what you want about how you tried to play, but you spent way too much time making anti-town arguments about Mish. You were towntelling hardcore early on but then burned all your towncred pretty quickly.

 

I still disagree with the Mish lynch. Lynching a claimed and confirmed suvivor was a foolhardy decision and it could have lead to the town losing.

Even with how her role turned out to be (no maffia PR's left, only town ones), it was foolish to lynch her and a huge waste of day action, especially with Cloud being let out without a claim.

 

It wasn't me who were pushing the anti-town agenda, it was you guys.

 

Lynching a claimed survivor makes sense when the setup isn't open and it could be hiding a maffia. But it made absolutely no sense in the situation. Had we not lynched Mish right there, town would have won just on numbers,

[WWWwombat]

Csarmi, you need to stop thinking that the way you play is the only way to play. Lynching a Survivor is a risk-averse play. It doesn't kill a townie and it kills someone who could turn against the town. Risk-averse is exactly the way to play when you lynch mafia D1.

 

Also, in hindsight, Cloud wouldn't have been lynched D2. The likely result of his run up would have been him claiming lover and not being lynched. At that point, a mislynch would have been very likely. The only lynches that would have been better than Mish would have been Krak or Tina. That's very poor odds.

 

Lynching Mish was the right play at the time and it remains the right play.

[csarmi]

Cloud being run up would have given the Vig a safe shot.

 

At that point we had Ithi/Peace & Thorum with strong claims. Hally was confirmed town. Any lynch that wasn't any of those, Mish, Csarmi, Wombat or Darthe was beneficial for town (mathematical victory), even the Clod/Dice lynch. That's because they'd have removed an unknown factor.

 

I understand what you're saying about risk-averse play, but in this situation the survivor posed no risk. The switch was some randomness, but it didn't matter anymore.

 

As I said in the dead thread, however, I should have pieced it together right then. My instincts were right, but I missed the crucial moment when I was to sit down and calculate.

[Darthe]

I don't care about the differing opinions on the Mish kill.  Believing any third party claim is a good way to lose.

 

Here's what interests me.  This setup would have still not worked if the Oracle had one shot per phase, even in the event that Des lived to use his shot and our Vig didnt use all three kills at once.

 

Watch:

 

D1:

Hally is conf town

Oracle asks: Are the titans town?  Yes

Lynch: anyone save Titan or PR

 

N1:

Oracle asks: How many titans are there?  4

Cop view: Oracle, town

Mafia kill: Hally

Vig Kill: Town Human

 

D2:

Doc claims, oracle claims, vig claims, cop claims and confirms oracle.  Vig confirmed by kill.

Numbers are 7 confirmed of 13 alive.  Vig doesn't have to shoot, but he will.  Doc doesn't have to protect but he will.  Cop doesn't have to get more alignments but he will.  Mafia PR's are rendered useless.  And this is all assuming town has killed itself all game.

nonconfirmed is killed

 

N2: 

Vig kills 2 unconfirmed, only 1 can be town..

mafia kills confirmed, lets say Vig

switch screws doc out of a protection or maybe cop was delayed and got his confirmation tonight, doesn't matter

 

D3:

6 confirmed, 10 alive.  the 4 remaining must be the switch, two mafia, and mafia lover.

 

So long as the Oracle asks about Titans the game is practically over.

 

Still a wonderful setup to play RTE, I hope you don't take this as chiding.  I am just examining mechanics because the setup itself was unique =p  You may see a game based on it later.

[csarmi]

Darthe: again, this was a special 3rd party claim that you don't see often (at least not here). The game setup was open at that point and exactly one survivor was guaranteed.

 

At that point a survivor claim without a CC is guaranteed not to be maffia.

 

The reason you lynch 3rd party claims because they might be maffia as well. But it wasn't possible here.

[csarmi]

Darthe: your calculations are wrong. Just as some assumed during the game.

 

 

4 maffia gods

--------------------------

2 town gods (first is Hally, the other is a Named Townie)

4 town titans (all titans are town)

5 town humans (all humans are town except for the survivor)

1 sv human

 

You shouldn't count the 4 titans as confirmed town. You should know better Darthe - as long as at least one maffia member claims a titan, you simply can't use the 4 titan information effectively.

[csarmi]

So if you examine mechanics, do it right.