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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Ubaydullah Abdul-Malik

Malazan Book of the Fallen

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Actually, Midnight Tides does tell the story of how Trull came to be Shorn and left tied to that wall where Onrack initially finds him.

 

Whether it was a waste of time is of course subjective, but I assure you that Erikson has not included a "pointless" book in the Book of the Fallen. You just need to trust him.

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It does end up tying in, it just takes a bit to get there.

 

 

Actually, Midnight Tides does tell the story of how Trull came to be Shorn and left tied to that wall where Onrack initially finds him.

 

Whether it was a waste of time is of course subjective, but I assure you that Erikson has not included a "pointless" book in the Book of the Fallen. You just need to trust him.

 

Midnight Tides may start the story, but it didn't finish it which is where my frustration lies.  Seems that Erikson jumped from present with Trull promising to tell the story, back to the past and Trull's story, then back to the present with Trull's story unfinished and just jumping back to all the other characters.  And now, hundreds of pages into book 6, not a peep about anything Trull related, including the finishing of his past story.  Personally, I would have been much happier had Trull's story slowly been a part of books 1-5, rather than completely anachronistic with everything else.

 

I trust Erikson will get there, and I'm still reading...

 

Okay, enough complaining.

 

So far my favorite characters are Ganoes Paran, Lady Envy, Onos T'oolan, and Cotillion.  I also really enjoyed the Tehol and Bugg interactions.  I was constantly trying to look for funny and deeper meaning in their crazy back and forth.  Made me laugh.

 

Also, I can't wait to see what happens with Icarium.  I'm expecting awesome.

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Hmm - it's been a couple of years so my memory may be totally off here, but...

 

 

Didn't Midnight Tides end with Trull going back to Rhulad (instead of leaving with Seren, Fear, Silchas etc)? I always took it that Rhulad had him arrested & shorn pretty much as he returned, leaving very little of the story out, seeing as the shorning itself, the ceremony, was shown in... Was it the prologue of House of Chains? Somewhere, anyway. But like I said, my memory may not be entirely trustworthy here, and my interpretation of the events probably even less so! x)

 

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How did you get on? I was trying not to laugh because Books 6 and 7 directly continue the storyline of Book 5, but the Book 5 crew don't show up until quite some way into Book 6 after Erikson finishes blowing up that city in Seven Cities. But Book 6 is the one that finally ties together the three different theatres (Lether, Seven Cities, Genabackis) :)

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@Nevertame - I definitely know what you're talking about now, the Darujhistan parts are narrated very differently and a bit annoyingly. I really don't know why Erikson shifted like that. Half the the time it sounds like Kruppe istelling the story now.

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How did you get on? I was trying not to laugh because Books 6 and 7 directly continue the storyline of Book 5, but the Book 5 crew don't show up until quite some way into Book 6 after Erikson finishes blowing up that city in Seven Cities. But Book 6 is the one that finally ties together the three different theatres (Lether, Seven Cities, Genabackis) :)

 

I'm just now getting to the part where Trull comes back into the story.  As to why he was excommunicated, no idea.  Nor do I (yet?) know what happens in between Rhulad going emporer evil and Trull being rescued by the Imass. 

 

I'm just going to fill in the narrative myself and make crap up about why Trull was sent off until it gets filled in. Something about how he gave Rhulad so many helium balloons that Rhulad now has a permanently squeeky Mickey Mouse voice, for which Rhulad could not forgive him.  Or...yeah...

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I really need to reread that book because I know it made more sense than you're making it sound like but I can't argue my point effectively when I can't remember the details. Oh well.

 

And Talmanes - yes, exactly, the Kruppe-voice annoyed the everliving Light out of me. I think I remember reading that TTH is a favourite of Erikson himself, though. Well, like I said, it divides opinions... x)

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I really need to reread that book because I know it made more sense than you're making it sound like but I can't argue my point effectively when I can't remember the details. Oh well.

 

And Talmanes - yes, exactly, the Kruppe-voice annoyed the everliving Light out of me. I think I remember reading that TTH is a favourite of Erikson himself, though. Well, like I said, it divides opinions... x)

Well, Erikson actually likes Kruppe. For those of us who find him insufferable, having him blight the narrative voice of the novel as well as blighting the novel itself doesn't make for a great read.

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Oh, absolutely - I did not mean to imply (and as far as I can see, I don't think I actually ever did imply) that we should like it just because SE himself does. Like I said, the Kruppe-voice annoyed me, too.

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Guys, just don't jump at me about this statement but I have the slight feeling that our Steve Eriksson is a bid unstable, let's say mad. It is quite OK for the series, but whilst the other writers make their books as understandable as possible for their readers, Steve makes it as hard as possible. Like he knows his world but doesn't care if you feel welcomed in it or don't. This said, I am a fan of the series but every time I read The Crippled God, I sense madness. This makes it more authentic than any other fantasy I've read except the Seer King but I know some people who gave the series up because it was too hard to understand. I hope you understand me. Haven't you had this feeling, that he might be a bit in his own world?

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Theo - hmm, not knowing the guy personally it's difficult to assess his state of mind. x) But I think he's perfectly aware of what he's doing, and doing it on purpose. He's made a point of not holding the reader's hand through the series. So in that sense you're probably right - or at least close - in saying he doesn't care whether the reader sinks or swims. But I wouldn't say it's because he's "in his own world" - that makes it sound like he doesn't realise what he's doing, and I'm fairly sure he does.

 

Also, a question, since I think there were several of you guys reading or just finished with Deadhouse Gates - how did you feel about the book? It's a rather drastic change in tone from Gardens of the Moon, and I've always wondered how people who get pulled into the series by GotM ever make it through DG. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remember that it took a lot of time to get attached to the new characters, even Mappo and Icarium, who are some of the most loveable of the bunch.

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Theo - hmm, not knowing the guy personally it's difficult to assess his state of mind. x) But I think he's perfectly aware of what he's doing, and doing it on purpose. He's made a point of not holding the reader's hand through the series. So in that sense you're probably right - or at least close - in saying he doesn't care whether the reader sinks or swims. But I wouldn't say it's because he's "in his own world" - that makes it sound like he doesn't realise what he's doing, and I'm fairly sure he does.

 

Also, a question, since I think there were several of you guys reading or just finished with Deadhouse Gates - how did you feel about the book? It's a rather drastic change in tone from Gardens of the Moon, and I've always wondered how people who get pulled into the series by GotM ever make it through DG. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remember that it took a lot of time to get attached to the new characters, even Mappo and Icarium, who are some of the most loveable of the bunch.

NeverTame, I don't know him personally but I've watched an interview with him and the way he behaved + he throws the reader right into the abyss, so I think the guy is very absorbed in his world. Smetimes, when I read a scene and it just makesme say aloud "You should be mad to be able to create and write about this".

Come on, DoD, Hetan? Was that necessary

I still love the books though.

 

Even Deadhouse, I got quickly absorbed into Felisin's story, but I was told before that Eriksson likes jumping from a plot to another with new set of characters and not to get attached to anybody :wink: I knew he would link everything, so I just went with the flow.

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So, as for book 5 being a complete standalone and having nothing to do with the series (including book 6) I stand by my statement for 90% of it.  Book 6 just jumped back to the already known events and had basically nothing to do with anything from book 5. 

 

However, I am now on book 7. 

After 50 pages of book 7 you finally, finally learn about Trull's shorning and the storylines coalesce.  Book 5 is only now starting to be "a part of the series" in my mind.  It is as though two parallel storylines that were never meant to come together are finally doing so.  I feel better about life. 

 

 

 

Guys, just don't jump at me about this statement but I have the slight feeling that our Steve Eriksson is a bid unstable, let's say mad. It is quite OK for the series, but whilst the other writers make their books as understandable as possible for their readers, Steve makes it as hard as possible. Like he knows his world but doesn't care if you feel welcomed in it or don't. This said, I am a fan of the series but every time I read The Crippled God, I sense madness. This makes it more authentic than any other fantasy I've read except the Seer King but I know some people who gave the series up because it was too hard to understand. I hope you understand me. Haven't you had this feeling, that he might be a bit in his own world?

 

I completely agree about the books but have no idea about Eriksson.  The books don't hold your hand.  They throw you into a whole new universe of worlds, with random ideas like holds and Ceda's and decks and etc etc that you are just supposed to figure out and they are never explained in any way at all.  It's like going to a foreign country with a translation dictionary in hand, except the translation dictionary only tells you about half the words you need to know. 

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Actually, now that I think about it, it is more like being *in the world Eriksson has created.  You have about as much knowledge as some of the most powerful characters, but not more.  No "god mode" for these books. 

 

I personally like the feeling of being "in the world" as it is created through a lack of knowledge.  Because the way Eriksson does it is by giving most all the pieces of the puzzle but never explaining the puzzle in the first place.  Rather than how Jordan does it where "So-and-so whispers a secret that changes the whole universe to Rand making him understand how to win the universe and have cake too.  Rand's eyes go wide and he smiles.  *Next Scene*" 

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NeverTame, I don't know him personally but I've watched an interview with him and the way he behaved + he throws the reader right into the abyss, so I think the guy is very absorbed in his world. Smetimes, when I read a scene and it just makesme say aloud "You should be mad to be able to create and write about this".

Come on, DoD, Hetan? Was that necessary

I still love the books though.

 

Even Deadhouse, I got quickly absorbed into Felisin's story, but I was told before that Eriksson likes jumping from a plot to another with new set of characters and not to get attached to anybody :wink: I knew he would link everything, so I just went with the flow.

 

Oh, with DG I didn't mean the abrupt change of scenery and the casts of new characters, but the... overall hopelessness of half the storylines in that book. The Chain of Dogs and the Felisin arc are both... sort of depressing. x)

 

As for the other thing, I am now very curious to see that interview. And as for the things he writes... Aside from the fantasy elements (obviously), he's not really writing anything people somewhere, somewhen haven't done.

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Book 5 does make a bit more sense when you remember that:

 

 

Midnight Tides takes place before the rest of the books, and Deadhouse Gates features Karsa finding a Tiste Edur ship in the Nascent, I think with one of the characters from MT dead on it. Memories of Ice also features some mentions of the Edur situation.

 

It's also worth remembering that MT does feature Edur fleets being dispatched around the world, and one of these fleets shows up in Book 6 and there is nearly a massive battle until Quick Ben scares everyone into standing down, and leads the Bonehunters to the Letherii home continent.

 

 

The connections are a bit vague, but they are definitely there.

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Actually, now that I think about it, it is more like being *in the world Eriksson has created.  You have about as much knowledge as some of the most powerful characters, but not more.  No "god mode" for these books. 

That. Sometimes though, the naturalistic scenes and indeed the depressive feeling, NeverTame, comes too much and I need a bookwith a gentle hand-holding by a blue clad Aes Sedai, called Moiraine :wink: I know I  definitely will not live further than the age of 5 in such a place (if I am lucky :biggrin:).

 

I will try to find the interview on youtube (I watched it on TV).

Edited by Theodora

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Book 5 does make a bit more sense when you remember that:

 

 

Midnight Tides takes place before the rest of the books, and Deadhouse Gates features Karsa finding a Tiste Edur ship in the Nascent, I think with one of the characters from MT dead on it. Memories of Ice also features some mentions of the Edur situation.

 

It's also worth remembering that MT does feature Edur fleets being dispatched around the world, and one of these fleets shows up in Book 6 and there is nearly a massive battle until Quick Ben scares everyone into standing down, and leads the Bonehunters to the Letherii home continent.

 

 

The connections are a bit vague, but they are definitely there.

 

 

True, which gives some connections.  I was more looking for direct connections with Trull, but in Bonehunters you do see a few glimpses of the Tiste Edur empire expanding while the Malazan empire seems to be ready for imminent collapse

 

 

 

Actually, now that I think about it, it is more like being *in the world Eriksson has created.  You have about as much knowledge as some of the most powerful characters, but not more.  No "god mode" for these books. 

That. Sometimes though, the naturalistic scenes and indeed the depressive feeling, NeverTame, comes too much and I need a bookwith a gentle hand-holding by a blue clad Aes Sedai, called Moiraine :wink: I know I  definitely will not live further than the age of 5 in such a place (if I am lucky :biggrin:).

 

I will try to find the interview on youtube (I watched it on TV).

 

 

I'm curious to see the interview if you can find it.

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Had to take a break for a bit, but on to book 8.  The last 150 pages of book 7 were action packed, fast paced, and I couldn't set it down.  Awesome.

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Just finished book four last night.  I picked up the series while I wait on the new Stormlight and ASOIAF and I can say that I don't exactly love this series, but I'm not disappointed either.  I actually didn't mind being dropped into the mass confusion of Gardens of the Moon.  I think Erickson's world is fascinating and the ultimate "battles" at the end of each of the first four books are very well done. 

 

I don't like how soft the magic system seems to be.  I feel like there are really no rules and it seems like deus ex machina is overused at times.  Also, after four books (and thousands of pages), I really don't love the characters.  Maybe this is because the story jumps around or due to some of my favorites dying quickly.  Most likely I just haven't read enough of the series yet.  I hope this improves as I do really like the story.  I just like to "live and die" with the characters like I do with WoT and I just don't feel that way with this series thus far. 

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Yes! :laugh:  My theard still lives!  Unforunately I've gotten a bit distracted from the reading of Malazan as of late,life and well life, getting through school and it's been to flaming cold to just sit in parks and read.  Well I'm done with the first leg of my scholastic career and i can read again!

However I still haven't gotten back to reading Malazan because I discovered? 

 

VladTaltos/Dragaera

51Ju2E2ZqoL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-stic

 

Mid way through book two and I remain entertained, since the books all seem to be quite short, one and two are less than two hundred pages each, they won't take long to finish.

 

 

Late happy New-year Dragonmount!

Edited by Asha'manKill!

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Just finished book four last night.  I picked up the series while I wait on the new Stormlight and ASOIAF and I can say that I don't exactly love this series, but I'm not disappointed either.  I actually didn't mind being dropped into the mass confusion of Gardens of the Moon.  I think Erickson's world is fascinating and the ultimate "battles" at the end of each of the first four books are very well done. 

 

I don't like how soft the magic system seems to be.  I feel like there are really no rules and it seems like deus ex machina is overused at times.  Also, after four books (and thousands of pages), I really don't love the characters.  Maybe this is because the story jumps around or due to some of my favorites dying quickly.  Most likely I just haven't read enough of the series yet.  I hope this improves as I do really like the story.  I just like to "live and die" with the characters like I do with WoT and I just don't feel that way with this series thus far. 

 

Yeah, all of the characters bemoan how pointless and horrible life is in every possible way.  It is amazing that any of them ever get out of bed in the morning.  That being said, there are still a few characters that I genuinely enjoy, dead/dying/still alive and soon to be dead.

 

Half way through book 8.  Saemenkelyk is annoying.

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