Ten days after Samhain, 1057: Night 5 (CONCLUDED)

[lolguy26]

I've been somewhat liking Pralaya and Leelou's defence was genuine.

 

VOTE: chuckles

 

....i dont get this

 

can you explain if you find me scummy or what?

[The Crusher]

Pral, so you "know Leelou is scum" but you are voting Des? 

 

 

He named you both, but can only vote one at a time.  Probably Des cause your better to look at.  Des' avatar scares the crap outta me.

[The Crusher]

vote Des

 

The snake dude made a nice case and Des' avatar is scary. 

[John E. Kelley]

Vote Des.

[Leelou]

Des is a decent option, but I still would like to hear from others. 

[lolguy26]

Vote krak

 

2 posts in this thread but he posted in the other threads

 

why are you pointedly ignoring this thread krak, it demands your attention  

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

Pralaya (1/7): Des

Des (3/7): Pralaya, Crusher, Ishy

Leelou (1/7): BG

Chuckles/lolguy (1/7): Serra

Krak (1/7): Chuckles

 

Not Voting (6/13):

Leelou, Hally, Lenlo, Dap, Krak, Tiinker

[Hallia]

 

I didn't say we had to speedlynch Leelou, which is what everyone's implying. I wanted to listen to what she had to say before placing a vote, just in case she'd give us any leads on her teammates. She's trying really hard to redirect attention from herself by pulling up any name that she can to save herself from being lynched today. Which she's about to succeed in, by the way. Myself, Chuckles, Pral, anyone that said she should be lynched today for her behavior interacting with Verbal. I don't think she cared which one, just as long as one of us got killed instead of her. Chuckles looks suspect to me for saying that he doesn't think she's scum. I could vote both way right now, but I'll vote: Leelou.

Ooowheee I love to see a scum sweat! Leelou is doing what the responsible townie thing to do would be in this circumstance: getting out her reads. She isn't flailing or panicking and telling people to vote for all these other people at all. As Yates said, her responses have held up under pressure.

 

And its not about whether or not you were pushing speedlynching, its that you were setting up Leelou's lynch before Verbal had even flipped scum. I wanted to go back and look for myself, and yeah bud, you came up not exactly smelling like roses.

 

And you and BG pushing the Leelou/Chuckles team makes me feel like Chuckles is more likely town now as well. Thanks for that. Razen flips scum, and imo we have two semi-confirmed townies and some great scum leads.

 

 

The back and forth between Desp and Cloud yesterday leads me to believe someone might've had a vendetta.  And also how he was pushing for Raz's lynch, seen above.

 

Vote Desp

[Leelou]

Could you guys actually list out who you think is scum and why? 

[dapianoplay3r]

Csarmi Lynch Day 1

 

 

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

Salami (12/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Razen, Dap, Krak, Des, Peace, Tina, Tiink

Verb (1/12): Crusher

Chuckles (1/12): Salami

Cloud (1/12): Mr. Ree

Not Voting (8/23): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Lenlo, Pral, Serra, BG, Ishy

 

 

There wouldn't be just one mafia (symp not included) on the Csarmi train IMO so that means

Leelou

Dap

Krak

Des

Tiink

 

Are a good place to start looking

Lets see how they went D2

 

Verbal Day 2 Lynch

 

 

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Verbal (11/11): Tina, Cloud, Ishy, BG, Razen, Chuckles, Des, Pralaya, Serra, Tiink, Leelou

 

Not Voting: Verb, Mish, Hallia, Yates, Lenlo, Crusher, Dap, Peace, Krak

 

 

 

Mafia may of risked being off Verbs lynch (Yates did) but for now it's less likely dap or krak is mafia (Plus I'm certain dap isn't mafia lol)

 

Des (less scummy than the other two with position but still worth keeping on the list)

Leelou (scummy scummy place to be, but it's her meta. However if you have such an obvious meta it would be silly not to use that. So it's almost a null tell)

Tiink (scummy place to be)

 

Razen Day 3 Lynch

 

 

 

Day 3 Final Vote Count

Leelou (4/9): Pralaya, Cloud, BG, Razen

Razen (9/9): Chuckles, Leelou, Des, Crusher, Yates, Hally, Ishy, Lenlo, MishNot Voting (4/17):

 

Dap, Krak, Tiink, Serra

 

 

 

So leelou and des are the stand outs with the VC

[dapianoplay3r]

That's my job, thank you.

You didn't vote me in your first post here. I am disappoint.

 

I'm thinking about getting myself modkilled due to epic sadness.

So that's what I consider Yates symp hint

 

Notice it's verb that he links it with

 

 

 

What Yates and Nol posted about the Gambler's Fallacy is only true if we can draw no valuable conclusions from cross-meta. I would argue that you very much can, which imposes a correlation between the games which we can take advantage of to increase our odds of hitting scum.

I don't disagree with you regarding valuable conclusions - which is why Salami is the pony in this race. My gambler's fallacy post - again - was in response to Peace's assertion that Salami flipping scum in one thread makes him somehow LESS LIKELY to flip scum in another thread. As a statistics guy, you can appreciate where her logic fails in that argument. I was pointing it out.

 

Meh not particularly useful

Feels like he is just going along to push Csarmis lynch

 

 

 

I'm not saying I won't also individually look for scumtells and questionable behavior in each, quite the opposite in fact. But you can't treat it like each game is being played in a vacuum.

Exactly. Playing a single gambit across all three games on Day 1 does not preclude you from scum hunting by other means. What it DOES do is give us a baseline for following days and creates natural tells.

Yates kinda goes with des on some stuff. But he was defo trying to get verb to notice out of the team. Probably cos he knows him

 

 

 

I'm not saying I won't also individually look for scumtells and questionable behavior in each, quite the opposite in fact. But you can't treat it like each game is being played in a vacuum.

Exactly. Playing a single gambit across all three games on Day 1 does not preclude you from scum hunting by other means. What it DOES do is give us a baseline for following days and creates natural tells.

Yea after the VC thing it looks like Des was more championed than leelou by Yates

 

 

 

I did actually have an idea about the lurking thing tho... Perhaps instituting another cross-thread meta strategy in the next couple of days where we look at who might be the "lurkiest" across all three threads and metalynch them. Will be a huge deterrent against inactivity, will give a fairly good shot of catching scum in at least one if we pick a good enough target (maybe someone who usually doesn't lurk quite as much), and the meta strategy will once again let us do some cross-thread analysis.

As much as I love the idea of this? I'm kind of hoping to have something a little more tangible to work with once the trilynch is done.

I might be reading into stuff cos this just looks like general chit chat

 

 

I just got to this post:

 

I had both global and local points to make, I just happened to start with the global ones, as they seemed the more immediately interesting of the two.

Wait. So you are doing pretty much the same thing I'm doing [responding to global arguments] yet you call me out for replying to global arguments as they pop up [because that makes more sense, btw] rather than "arbitrarily" choosing a single thread to address these points in - and that isn't scummy? YET - you questioned why I would do that and expressed concerns about it because I wasn't posting in here as much?? That's weird, dude.

Don't think serra is mafia. Yates is against him too much

 

 

 

You guys are the devil. All of you.

 

You catch on quick ;)

I wonder if this was another hint on Yates part? Hmmm

 

Ooh this is interesting

 

As for vote analysis, the people who pretty much constructed the meta-lynch on CSalarmi, and by that I mean all the early culprits on his train, were Nolder, Verbal, Leelou, Yates, Cloud, and Razen.

 

Nolder was the most outspoken about it, however I could still see him pushing it overtly as scum instead of trying to do it quietly.

Leelou and Verbal both play on JN a lot, where there are a lot more speedlynches and quick wagons, so I don't think their votes stand out as much.

Yates' thinking seems to have mirrored my own somewhat, in that the plan was a unique one and a good opportunity to try and compare info from each thread (it was a good idea btw, and it's already paying off... sorta lol). He seems town to me in at least T1 and T2. Gotta reread T3 to make sure on him there.

Cloud's play looks mighty scummy in T1 and T2. Moreso in T2, because he joined two bandwagons quick (first was on Yates), but I remember feeling pretty sketchy about him in this one as well. Once again, I have to go back through T3 again to see how I feel on him there.

 

Razen was the laziest of the early pushers on the metalynch. Just voted, didn't give any reasoning or anything, didn't say he agreed with the concept, nothing. He might be the best candidate for what Tina described in this thread: People that were pushing Csarlami's metalynch as a way of masking their own meta. I in fact initially voted Razen a bit ago (since that thread is the go-getter of the trio and is already in day phase). After reviewing his case in that one however, I ended up changing my vote to Cloud, because his case was pretty good. But perhaps he's better at casing when he's town, and he was trying to mask his meta to hide his scumminess in T1 or T3. Worth looking into possibly.

Bold

So des defends both verb and leelou here. That's great

Italics

He thinks Yates is copying him, so must be town. Who would a symp mirror to get attention? Mafia

I know he would try link with town to drag them down too but those two things together is well worth noting

 

 

 

i c wat u did thar

Ha! Town slip!

This is a start to another weird interaction with verb

 

 

 

 

i c wat u did thar

Ha! Town slip!

 

I bet. I had one of those "town slips" last game on purpose too, ya know. Hehe.

So did Mish. That doesn't mean actual Town slips don't happen, though.

 

But yeah, I didn't notice the kill flavor from last game and still don't remember discussion about a knife. Going to look now...

Looks to me like he wasnt recruited so was upping the hinting to get attention

 

 

 

Verbal is not town.

 

Vote Verbal

 

Need some explanation there.

Now leelou was one of the people on the side of asking for a full reveal

However as a vengeful the mafia would of known that Tina would die when verb flipped anyway, so why would they waste time getting a reveal and looking scummy

 

 

I know Verbal isn´t town. How I know that can be my secret for now, okay.

 

Sorry, no. After watching the last game with a mafia fake cop reveal, I am not taking anything at face value.

Lousy excuse but following on from what I just said I think despo is in the lead as likely mafia at this point

 

 

Stating I'm scum is a softclaim. I'm not letting you take me down without getting you on the record once I flip.

See why would he need this? It's useless to him other than trying to stop is own lynch so his teammates wouldn't be pushing for a reveal as well IMO

 

 

Leelou´s unwillingness to vote Verbal is noted.

 

 

Leelou´s unwillingness to vote Verbal is noted.

 

Your unwillingness to claim fully and hide behind a softclaim is noted, hypocrite.

Kinda defending leelou

Point against her being town

 

 

Leelou, you are coming off as UBER scummy right now. Chuckles, you too.

Now des gets involved. He starts using the verb stuff to set others up as scummy (which normally they would be but since he flipped vengeful its less scummy IMO)

 

 

It's one thing for mafia to fake a claim towards the end of a game to try and trick town. Quite another if the claim comes towards the beginning of the game. HIGHLY doubt Tina is scum pulling this off as a fake claim.

 

Not going with an obvious claimed investigative viewing is as anti-town as it gets.

Why would he doubt her. He knows its very likely she is telling the truth (supposing he is mafia), it earns him town cred, distances from his teammate.

Des is doing exactly what a good mafia should be doing at this point

 

Sorry that's as much as I can do today right now

 

Page 33

 

Des is the way to go IMO

[dapianoplay3r]

unvote vote des

[Leelou]

Vote krak

 

2 posts in this thread but he posted in the other threads

 

why are you pointedly ignoring this thread krak, it demands your attention

I'm not really liking this post. It seems out of place to actually be voting an inactive right now.

 

Also, after looking back over everything I think Des is a good place to look for today. I just didn't feel comfortable with Pral earlier, still not 100% comfortable there.

 

vote Des

 

I would still like to see the opinions of the quieter players.

[John E. Kelley]

We need a VC. Now.

[dapianoplay3r]

 

Wait your reasoning that it might have been a gambit is ok but cuz I thought the same thing I'm suddenly on the scum team?!

 

Vote: Leelou

 

This made me think leelou is town

He evens the trains and pushes for her vote

 

 

Official Vote Count

Leelou (4/9): Pralaya, Cloud, BG, Yates

Razen (4/9): Chuckles, Leelou, Des, Crusher

Krak (2/9): Hally, Ishy

Not Voting (7/17):

Mish, Razen, Lenlo, Dap, Krak, Tiink, Serra

  

Fair point. I like your responses under pressure.

 

Vote: Razen

  

 

However then this happens

He suddenly buys leelou and switches to Raz.

If leelou is mafia then this was a risky move by pushing her first, but it did make her look better once Yates flipped

 

I dunno. I'm feeling better about leelou but not much

 

 

So what you are saying is that in your re-read between the beginning of the day and now Chuckles went 9 steps down on your scum list simply because you hadn't paid much attention before that. You didn't think you'd be alive so you just lashed out at who you thought would be the easiest lynch even before anyone voted you?

This is believable. With three threads it's hard to keep track of reads.

I will flip - Tay, vanilla town, so I hope after that you do go back and look at things.

I also believe this.You should be voting Razen. Gives us just as much "info" as Leelou and he's scummier. Leelou is handling the pressure just fine and looks like a defensive VT to me [see Yates T2]...

 

Now he defends her more

It could be a clever ploy

 

I'm just not sure. But for now des is still in the lead

 

 

Official Vote Count

Leelou (4/9): Pralaya, Cloud, BG, Razen

Razen (7/9): Chuckles, Leelou, Des, Crusher, Yates, Hally, IshyNot Voting (6/17):

Mish, Lenlo, Dap, Krak, Tiink, Serra

Yea Yates pushed raz over leelou after that switch. It made her look more town.

It just feels a little convenient

[lolguy26]

 

Vote krak

 

2 posts in this thread but he posted in the other threads

 

why are you pointedly ignoring this thread krak, it demands your attention

I'm not really liking this post. It seems out of place to actually be voting an inactive right now.

 

Also, after looking back over everything I think Des is a good place to look for today. I just didn't feel comfortable with Pral earlier, still not 100% comfortable there.

 

vote Des

 

I would still like to see the opinions of the quieter players.

 

 

see dude, there are inactives and there are people with 2 posts who seem to be ignoring this thread in particular

[Leelou]

 

 

Vote krak

 

2 posts in this thread but he posted in the other threads

 

why are you pointedly ignoring this thread krak, it demands your attention

I'm not really liking this post. It seems out of place to actually be voting an inactive right now.

 

Also, after looking back over everything I think Des is a good place to look for today. I just didn't feel comfortable with Pral earlier, still not 100% comfortable there.

 

vote Des

 

I would still like to see the opinions of the quieter players.

 

 

see dude, there are inactives and there are people with 2 posts who seem to be ignoring this thread in particular

 

 

The mods should take care of that. 

[WWWwombat]

VC in a sec

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

Pralaya (1/7): Des

Des (6/7): Pralaya, Crusher, Ishy, Hally, Dap, Leelou

Leelou (1/7): BG

Chuckles/lolguy (1/7): Serra

Krak (1/7): Chuckles

 

Not Voting (3/13):

Lenlo, Krak, Tiinker

[bgrishinko]

Updating Dap's vote counts with coloring after the first one for my own reference:

 

Csarmi Lynch Day 1

Day 1 Final Vote Count:
Salami (12/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Razen, Dap, Krak, Des, Peace, Tina, Tiink
Verb (1/12): Crusher
Chuckles (1/12): Salami
Cloud (1/12): Mr. Ree
Not Voting (8/23): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Lenlo, Pral, Serra, BG, Ishy

Verbal Day 2 Lynch

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Verbal (11/11): Tina, Cloud, Ishy, BG, Razen, Chuckles, Des, Pralaya, Serra, Tiink, Leelou

Not Voting: Verb, Mish, Hallia, Yates, Lenlo, Crusher, Dap, Peace, Krak

Razen Day 3 Lynch

Day 3 Final Vote Count
Leelou (4/9): Pralaya, Cloud, BG, Razen
Razen (9/9): Chuckles, Leelou, Des, Crusher, Yates, Hally, Ishy, Lenlo, MishNot Voting (4/17):

Dap, Krak, Tiink, Serra

 

 

 

I still feel that Leelou has been overall playing more scummy as I talked about at length yesterday. She has responded well under pressure, but that can just mean cool under pressure mafia.

 

Dap, I can see your case on Despo. It's pretty well thought out and I think your connections with Yates make sense. So I suppose I'll pull a Serra and post my Intent to Hammer. I'd like to hear Despo's responses before anyone comes in and hammers him willy nilly.

[hazelkrs1]

I'm here, I'm here, Lordy Lord don't have to blind lynch me yet. Little bit hungover and tired, but I'll catch up and try and get my thoughts together a bit. I think I forgot to mention it here, but I'm off for my 5 day break again so I won't be quite as active. Anyways, thoughts coming in a bit

[hazelkrs1]

Alright so gonna respond to the "cases" on me first, then will do some more casing of my own after that. Rorschach first:

 

Look who is eager to start the lynch train already

 

Rorschach has no idea what happened in the KH game, so to me it looks like he was trying to use an opportunity to try and appeal to my emotion and make me feel guilty for trying to come after him next.

I already addressed this to Cloud. I am referencing the bolded portion and not the KH game.

 

But, you failed to look at the main part of my quote. Here it is again

 

The exact thing is happening in this game too. We were in a good position with lynching Verbal and then it got downhill as the mafia played the town. First it was Razen. Next you will try to lynch Cloud, me or BG. There will be someone dead during the night-time. Playing right into the scum hands.

Bang on the buck. The script is being played exactly like I was saying.

 

I know you responded to Cloud about this, but the response still doesn't add up. Why comment on something you know nothing of, and try and compare the situation to something going on this game when the two situations could be completely different (which they are btw)?

 

I said it before, and I still believe you were trying to AtE. You were trying to use apparent memory of a town loss in another game to try and inspire guilt or shake my confidence in going after you, or possibly discredit me. You even seem to think you know who I'll for next with each lynch, saying I'll go after Cloud, you, and BG. I think you possibly breadcrumbed two other townie names there to try and make me look worse, which is prob why you killed Cloud to hopefully set up a frame job on me.

 

It is clear that you are trying to separate the townies based on the "voted Leelou" faction and others.

 

It can be clearly seen by the below quote

 

Scum team: Razen, Rorschach, Serra, Cloud, and BG now as well.

Book it. Send it to the publisher. Then wait for the checks to come in.

 

Cause those reads are GOLD

Basically you lumped all those who voted Leelou and trying to project them as scum. Two of them have already flipped as townies and the rest will too. Clearly trying to pounce on the opportunity.

 

I wasn't trying to call everyone who voted Leelou scummy at all, I clearly was looking at those who were trying to set up her lynch before Verbal flipped himself. On my reread, it looked to me like the scum team was trying to go for the easiest lynch possible after Verbal's lynch, since they would have been prepared for his lynch knowing that he was a Vengeful Killer. It's obvious with that kind of role that they were basically trying to get him lynched, and try to drag other townies down with him.

 

Also, your surety that ALL the rest of those names will flip town as well is incredibly scummy. What should make you think ALL those other people are town as well? I was obviously wrong with Razen and Cloud, but I think I got at least a couple of those other reads right, because you seem to be trying to defend them by taking me out by lynch.

 

I will let this quote of Cloud to reinforce the point

 

TLDR: LEELOU AND DESPO ARE MAFIA TEAMMATES.

 

I will eat my hat if I'm wrong about this.

Pretty much.

 

You aren't making any point at all here with this. I already knew Cloud was wrong about me. Once again, I think yall NK'ed Cloud to try and frame me, and possibly Leelou next.

 

Obvious frame job is obvious. You don't even try and quote any parts where Cloud is trying to explain why he thought me scum, just quoting the most definitive post where he states his stance on me.

 

 

Rorschach was one of the other people that was setting up Leelou's lynch and seemed to know what Verbal would flip as before he flipped.

Really? Everyone knew it at that point because the town cop gave away Verbal as scum LOL. Clutching at straws.

Yes, I was one of the people who "set up" Leelou - the others being Razen and Cloud - townies. Because I still know that Leelou is scum. Either you don't want to see the link or you are trying to invent a scenario where we are "setting up" so that you can separate the townies from the real goal.

 

You once again try to group yourself up with two other people that already flipped town to try and make yourself seem town as well, which is uberscummy. And just because a Cop claims someone to be scum doesn't mean its an absolute positive fact that they will flip scum. Could be a Miller, could be a case of role manipulation, like a Bus Driver for instance, which we've already seen a flip of. The fact that some of you seemed to be sure Verbal would flip scum and we're using that to springboard to Leelou's lynch looked very questionable to me. Still does.

 

And, if all that are just suspicions, the below quote gives it all away

 

Not only that, but Rorschach makes a good info lynch as well today since Serra defended him recently.

Info lynch? Haha. Cheeky.

As if, Razen flipping as town wasn't info enough

As if, Cloud flipping as town wasn't info enough.

 

I didn't really push Razen that much as an info lynch at all brother, and Cloud was a NK so I OBVIOUSLY didn't push him as an info lynch. You're the one grasping at straws here brother.

 

Fact is, you WOULD make a good info lynch, since if you flip scum then Serra would look even more questionable for defending you.

 

You want me, Serra and BG too? But, by then there won't be enough townies to vote the real scum.

 

This is a clear-cut case. Leelou and Desp are both scum.

 

vote Desp

You once again seem so sure that Serra and BG are town, which is just incredibly scummy. Have a feeling one of them might be town, so you know this because you're scum, and the other one is your teammate. Or both could be your teammate. One thing I DO know however, is that your case is NOT clear-cut, it's shoddily put together and based too much off an obvious frame job with Cloud's NK. And also that you're scum.

[hazelkrs1]

Csarmi Lynch Day 1

 

 

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

Salami (12/12): Leelou, Cloud, Nol, Yates, Verb, Razen, Dap, Krak, Des, Peace, Tina, Tiink

Verb (1/12): Crusher

Chuckles (1/12): Salami

Cloud (1/12): Mr. Ree

Not Voting (8/23): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Lenlo, Pral, Serra, BG, Ishy

 

 

There wouldn't be just one mafia (symp not included) on the Csarmi train IMO so that means

Leelou

Dap

Krak

Des

Tiink

 

Are a good place to start looking

Lets see how they went D2

 

Verbal Day 2 Lynch

 

 

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Verbal (11/11): Tina, Cloud, Ishy, BG, Razen, Chuckles, Des, Pralaya, Serra, Tiink, Leelou

 

Not Voting: Verb, Mish, Hallia, Yates, Lenlo, Crusher, Dap, Peace, Krak

 

 

 

Mafia may of risked being off Verbs lynch (Yates did) but for now it's less likely dap or krak is mafia (Plus I'm certain dap isn't mafia lol)

 

Des (less scummy than the other two with position but still worth keeping on the list)

Leelou (scummy scummy place to be, but it's her meta. However if you have such an obvious meta it would be silly not to use that. So it's almost a null tell)

Tiink (scummy place to be)

 

Razen Day 3 Lynch

 

 

 

Day 3 Final Vote Count

Leelou (4/9): Pralaya, Cloud, BG, Razen

Razen (9/9): Chuckles, Leelou, Des, Crusher, Yates, Hally, Ishy, Lenlo, Mish

Not Voting (4/17): Dap, Krak, Tiink, Serra

 

 

 

So leelou and des are the stand outs with the VC

 

Not terrible vote analysis, but you def get one thing majorly wrong: with Verbal flipping a Vengeful Killer, it's more likely that mafia would have bussed him somewhat early in the train, instead of piling on late. I also took the liberty of coloring in the other known townies btw. So if anything, Leelou and Tiinker look slightly less scummy to me for those votes. The other votes on the train? Ishy, BG, Chuckles, Rorschach, and Serra. I'm already suspicious of three of those people (BG, Rorschach, and Serra), and Ishy and Chuckles don't really look great on these VC's either.

 

Can't remember which thread it was, but Ishy I think had voted Csarlami at one point, then changed his mind about the trilynch thing and removed it. Possible attempt at gaining town cred. Then he's in fairly good bussing position on Verbal, bandwagoned onto Razen, and bandwagoned onto me today (and yes, I'm town). Chuckles wasn't voting at the end of the day Day 1, was also in good bussing position on Verbal, and was the first vote on Razen's train. His voting history doesn't look as bad as the others however, and I have a slight town read on him so far this game at this point.

 

The other votes that stand out to me a lot are Crusher's, and yours as a matter of fact. Crusher parked his vote on Verbal Day 1, looks a lot like a distancing move to me, doesn't vote Day 2, and then has two bandwagon votes on two townies (me and Razen). You bandwagoned on Csarlami, don't vote for two straight days (lurkmode for you), and then post a weak and overjustifying case on me (I'll get to that in a bit). I also don't really like Hallia not voting the first two days, then also bandwagoning onto two townies (again, Razen and myself).

 

Rorschach also is in good bussing position on Verbal, and considering that he voted Leelou yesterday but is now voting me even tho he apparently still thinks Leelou is scummy screams OMGUS and scummy to me.

 

So yeah the standouts for me from these VC's are Ishy, Crusher, Rorschach, Hallia, and you Dap.

 

Okay on to your "case" on me in a sec, gotta get some breakfast for Little Bit first

[Krakalakachkn]

Vote Pralaya

[hazelkrs1]

Okay so I edited out the Yates' stuff out that you were just throwing out that didn't relate to me at all to make this easier to respond to and to trim down the quotes.

 

 

 

I'm not saying I won't also individually look for scumtells and questionable behavior in each, quite the opposite in fact. But you can't treat it like each game is being played in a vacuum.

Exactly. Playing a single gambit across all three games on Day 1 does not preclude you from scum hunting by other means. What it DOES do is give us a baseline for following days and creates natural tells.

 

Yates kinda goes with des on some stuff. But he was defo trying to get verb to notice out of the team. Probably cos he knows him

 

 

 

I'm not saying I won't also individually look for scumtells and questionable behavior in each, quite the opposite in fact. But you can't treat it like each game is being played in a vacuum.

Exactly. Playing a single gambit across all three games on Day 1 does not preclude you from scum hunting by other means. What it DOES do is give us a baseline for following days and creates natural tells.

 

Yea after the VC thing it looks like Des was more championed than leelou by Yates

 

Okay so I didn't check back to verify this, but are you sure you got the quotes right? Or did Yates quote the same post of mine twice and respond with something different on each?

 

I also don't get either of your points on these two quotes Dap. How was Yates trying to get Verb's attention in his response to me? Looks like it could be a lazy attempt at linking me to scum on your part there. And the second thing I also don't get. How does the post you quoted show Yates "championing" me over Leelou?

 

 

 

I did actually have an idea about the lurking thing tho... Perhaps instituting another cross-thread meta strategy in the next couple of days where we look at who might be the "lurkiest" across all three threads and metalynch them. Will be a huge deterrent against inactivity, will give a fairly good shot of catching scum in at least one if we pick a good enough target (maybe someone who usually doesn't lurk quite as much), and the meta strategy will once again let us do some cross-thread analysis.

As much as I love the idea of this? I'm kind of hoping to have something a little more tangible to work with once the trilynch is done.

 

I might be reading into stuff cos this just looks like general chit chat

 

I just got to this post:

 

I had both global and local points to make, I just happened to start with the global ones, as they seemed the more immediately interesting of the two.

Wait. So you are doing pretty much the same thing I'm doing [responding to global arguments] yet you call me out for replying to global arguments as they pop up [because that makes more sense, btw] rather than "arbitrarily" choosing a single thread to address these points in - and that isn't scummy? YET - you questioned why I would do that and expressed concerns about it because I wasn't posting in here as much?? That's weird, dude.

 

Don't think serra is mafia. Yates is against him too much

 

Yeah, think you went through trying to find any evidence of Yates linking to me you could find, and still couldn't find much so started grasping at straws. You even admit as much with the first point.

 

As to the second point, that's wifom. Yates is a good player, so would know to distance himself from some of his team in case he flipped scum. Don't think you should clear Serra as town just from this kind of thing.

 

Ooh this is interesting

 

As for vote analysis, the people who pretty much constructed the meta-lynch on CSalarmi, and by that I mean all the early culprits on his train, were Nolder, Verbal, Leelou, Yates, Cloud, and Razen.

 

Nolder was the most outspoken about it, however I could still see him pushing it overtly as scum instead of trying to do it quietly.

 

Leelou and Verbal both play on JN a lot, where there are a lot more speedlynches and quick wagons, so I don't think their votes stand out as much.

 

 

Yates' thinking seems to have mirrored my own somewhat, in that the plan was a unique one and a good opportunity to try and compare info from each thread (it was a good idea btw, and it's already paying off... sorta lol). He seems town to me in at least T1 and T2. Gotta reread T3 to make sure on him there.

 

Cloud's play looks mighty scummy in T1 and T2. Moreso in T2, because he joined two bandwagons quick (first was on Yates), but I remember feeling pretty sketchy about him in this one as well. Once again, I have to go back through T3 again to see how I feel on him there.

 

Razen was the laziest of the early pushers on the metalynch. Just voted, didn't give any reasoning or anything, didn't say he agreed with the concept, nothing. He might be the best candidate for what Tina described in this thread: People that were pushing Csarlami's metalynch as a way of masking their own meta. I in fact initially voted Razen a bit ago (since that thread is the go-getter of the trio and is already in day phase). After reviewing his case in that one however, I ended up changing my vote to Cloud, because his case was pretty good. But perhaps he's better at casing when he's town, and he was trying to mask his meta to hide his scumminess in T1 or T3. Worth looking into possibly.

Bold

So des defends both verb and leelou here. That's great

Italics

He thinks Yates is copying him, so must be town. Who would a symp mirror to get attention? Mafia

I know he would try link with town to drag them down too but those two things together is well worth noting

 

To the bolded: I wasn't overall defending Leelou and Verbal as town there, there wasn't enough info at that point to justify clearing either of them as town. I was saying their bandwagon votes didn't stand out as much to me since that's sort of part of their meta from JN. Once again, I think you were going through the whole thread to find as many ways to link me to scum as possible, and these scraps are the best type of thing you could get.

 

To the underlined: Meh I guess this isn't a bad point on your part. You do point out the wifom there however. But again, I was analyzing the early votes on all the Csarlami's lynch, and trying to see which ones could qualify most for the thing Tina pointed out, that scum could also mask their meta in these games by following along with the tri-lynch in each thread. Nolder and Razen did and still do stand out most for this thing, and I still think there's a good chance one or both of them are scum in at least one thread.

 

Basically think you took one of the most obvious posts which points out my towniness because of my intent to try and find scum, and tried to twist it to make me look scummy in retrospect.

 

 

 

Verbal is not town.

 

Vote Verbal

Need some explanation there.

 

Now leelou was one of the people on the side of asking for a full reveal

However as a vengeful the mafia would of known that Tina would die when verb flipped anyway, so why would they waste time getting a reveal and looking scummy

 

 

I know Verbal isn´t town. How I know that can be my secret for now, okay.

 

Sorry, no. After watching the last game with a mafia fake cop reveal, I am not taking anything at face value.

 

Lousy excuse but following on from what I just said I think despo is in the lead as likely mafia at this point

 

At least you seem to be agreeing with me on Leelou probably being town, but you haven't really stated that much or any good reasoning why I would be the best bet for mafia, yet say you have. One of those "lemme just repeatedly say he's mafia without stating why so people might sheep with me" type things.

 

 

 

Leelou´s unwillingness to vote Verbal is noted.

Your unwillingness to claim fully and hide behind a softclaim is noted, hypocrite.

 

Kinda defending leelou

Point against her being town

 

Wouldn't him flipping Vengeful Killer make this point moot? He would obviously want to link himself to townies to try and drag them down with him afterwards. Imo this is a point in FAVOR of Leelou being town.

 

 

Leelou, you are coming off as UBER scummy right now. Chuckles, you too.

Now des gets involved. He starts using the verb stuff to set others up as scummy (which normally they would be but since he flipped vengeful its less scummy IMO)

 

I hadn't seen Verbal's flip at that point yet. Seeing him flip as Vengeful Killer, I agree that those two don't look quite as scummy because of that stuff. Both still made bad plays that day by questioning Tina's softclaim, but in retrospect their bad play actually makes them look more town in hindsight.

 

This looks like more reaching on your part.

 

 

It's one thing for mafia to fake a claim towards the end of a game to try and trick town. Quite another if the claim comes towards the beginning of the game. HIGHLY doubt Tina is scum pulling this off as a fake claim.

 

Not going with an obvious claimed investigative viewing is as anti-town as it gets.

Why would he doubt her. He knows its very likely she is telling the truth (supposing he is mafia), it earns him town cred, distances from his teammate.

Des is doing exactly what a good mafia should be doing at this point

 

Sorry that's as much as I can do today right now

 

Page 33

 

Des is the way to go IMO

 

This last point against me is also pretty weak. I'm playing the way a good mafia should be doing? Uhm no, I'm playing the way a town would because I'm town. Your argument smells slightly like the "Too Town" argument which is incredibly weaksauce. Presenting that type of thing as evidence for why I'd be scum is incredibly sketchy.

 

TL;DR: Tbh, a pretty weak case in general against me. Looks a lot like you went through and tried finding as many ways to link me with scum as you could, and still couldn't find all that much. Can't see the town justification for why you'd go through the thread trying to tie one person to scummy people, instead of trying to objectively see who all they actually might be tied to. If I had time right now, and the inclination, I could prob go through the whole thread and find much better examples of Yates linking himself to other players to make your case look even worse, but I think my responses to this do pretty much the same thing. Looks like you were trying to find justification for voting me today. Big ol FOS @ you Dap.