November 7th, 1606: Day 4 (CONCLUDED)

[Pralaya]

 

 

First you gained some points for pointing out that Dap might be the one pushing the frame job

 

Then you lost points for voting Cloud anyways and setting up tomorrow's lynch.

 

Gonna reread now

 

 

 

True, because my whole argument against Dap revolves on whether Cloud is town or scum and I don't have a definite answer to that. My first doubt was against Cloud and it stands but if it turns out that Cloud is town, then I definitely know who the scum is.

[Niniel]

First. Vote Cloud 

 

I think that there are several good cases so I don´t have to go through them again. 

 

Now I´m going back to find quotes that have caught my attention. 

[Niniel]

Razen did an interesting points about Krak. He voted Yates a long time after the joke votes and he never commented on the Cs trains. 

 

 

I decided to cut out one of Des´s Wall of Text but I will comment on it. As I said in thread 1, I´m going to keep an eye on all of those that decided to vote Csarmi in all threads. I think they took the opportunity to do exactely what they accused Csarmi of - "meta hiding". Now we have three threads and I won´t do the same by trying to lynch one at a time in all threads so I won´t base any votes on that fact alone. But it still means that I will keep an extra eye on them in all of the games and use it as one part of a case against whoever I find scummy in each game. Cloud was one of them, Razen another. 

 

I have a different take on this case.

 

It could be that Leelou was hunted in the night because she was one of the first to be on Cloud. However, she was not the most vocal. One of the earliest quote was

 

 

 

Vote Yates
 
For self voting. Ugh.

  

Vote Csarmi
 
Let's just run him up and see what comes out of it.

Vote Csarmi
 
He must be scum in at least one of them or he wouldn't use the same strategy three times, heh.

Leelou I was wrong
This is where cloud is mafia. Csarmi and cloud are both mafia in this thread IMO
Bag 'em and tag 'em

(For kinda evidence. Look at the clod votes. This is the only thread he attempts to vote elsewhere and he is trying to be as nonchalant as possible in this thread)

vote salami

Also isnt it amazing that cloud went from thread to thread at the same time, making sure to read them all equally rather than concentrating on a specific thread at a time. Trying to have a nice even meta
Wait...
Didnt he accuse Csarmi of that and dub him mafia over it? I think he did lol

 

 

After that Dap has been most vocal against Cloud even while the Csarmi bandwagon was going on. 

For example,

 

This is game 2 right?
Cloud has been pretty scummy in this thread. He is one of my top pics

I even quoted him and explaind in my first post. How do you not see clouds scummy?

 

 

If Cloud was mafia, wouldn't the first person to target be Dap? 

And, guess who was one of the first on the Cloud train on Day 2?

 

 

Ishy and Leelou both play on JN as well though

But I like the idea of a cloud train
vote cloud

 

 

 

 

Me?

I've been saying for ages that I thought cloud was mafia on this thread
(This is T2 right?)

 

 

I would still give a benefit of doubt to Dap since both him and Leelou were on to Cloud at the beginning and they chose Leelou over Dap to kill.

 

Which brings to two possibilities,

 

1. Cloud is mafia: Dap was right all along

2. Cloud is not mafia: In this case, the first target on Day 3 would be Dap

 

I would, for now, go with my intuition that I had presented long back

 

 

 

I think dap and Leelou have a valid point. Even a newbie like me can see that Yates self-vote was a joke and was just the first day fun. Converting that to a serious post and voting based on it does look scummy to me.

 

vote Cloud

 

I don´t understand this reasoning. Do you think mafia kills whoever is suspicious of them all the time? How can you come to the conclusion that it´s either Cloud or Player?

 

With Csarmi flipping town, I'm less convinced of cloud being scum.

 

I think I prefer I'd prefer a peace lynch:

 

I don't really like peace here. His quotewall is pretty opportunistic. Trying to draw a connection between Leelou and cloud because Leelou voted him is pretty weak. "Early distancing" is a pretty overused buzzword, to be honest. He points fingers at the unreasoned cloud votes, while not doing the same with the Csarmi votes is off.

 

 

Then when he came back after desp's hammer, he didn't really comment on anything.

 

To the people that know him well: would scum-cloud be so obvious as to kill off Ishy for being suspicious of him? (edit: should be Ishy or Leelou, I suppose, as she was also pushing him, but was on the Csarmi wagon for most of the day)

 

I don't really like peace here. His quotewall is pretty opportunistic. Trying to draw a connection between Leelou and cloud because Leelou voted him is pretty weak. "Early distancing" is a pretty overused buzzword, to be honest. He points fingers at the unreasoned cloud votes, while not doing the same with the Csarmi votes is off.

 

 

Cloud only catching up in this thread when the other two threads were still in daytime did give me pause, but I think peace has been scummier overall. Peace/cloud is a possibility.

 

VOTE: Peace

 

I had these thoughts yesterday but now we know more. Do you still believe this now that Des claimed vig? Because that would mean that Peace killed Leelou, who he himself tried to set up. That sounds highly unlikely. Maybe I just don´t understand.

 

 

 

Sorry for the back and forth. So Des - you killed Ishy on day 1 because he was emo? I´m not saying that you are lying but I say it was a really weird reason. He could have been cop or doc. If you really are the vig then think a little bit longer before you choose your next target. 

[Niniel]

Chuckles´s quote got lost. Why again didn´t you understand Yates vote for Cloud?

[_CLOUD]

Looking at the votes, I agree.  Cloud took an obvious joke and flipped it completely on its heels by making it into a serious voting point.  I'm guessing that Ishy saw that too and followed her.  Then Csarmi and the tri-lynch option took over.  Which, by the way, Cloud fiercely advocated in thread 3, but didn't really post anything about it in this thread.

 

Tl;dr.  Cloud's vote on Yates turned a joke train into a serious reason for voting - and a weak one at that.  Peace pointed out the early Cloud voters, of which 2 of whom are now dead, while he tried painting the Leelou/Cloud interaction as scummates distancing from each other.  Well, mostly Leelou distancing from Cloud.  Anyway, given what I've seen so far, Vote: Cloud.  I'm also not liking Peace for that post where he pushed the Leelou/Cloud as distancing scummates angle.

 

 

About the Chuckles thing: how am I putting words in his mouth or answering questions for him? Even before my post he mentioned that Csarmi's story kept changing, and I posted after him to explain to Yates that I noticed the same thing happening. You are looking way too much into this. 

 

And yeah as I have already explained I found Yates' self-vote a little scummy and I think it was reason enough to place an early vote on him. I switched to Csarmi pretty soon anyway so I never thought that it was that big of a scum tell as everyone likes to make it look. Also, you said you aren't liking Peace for linking me, Ishy and Leelou together saying that we are scummates distancing from each other, but then you decide to just vote for me after all? You aren't making any sense!

 

 

 

Thats just what we needed. Emo despo to get a gun

this game will one day be used to help tighten gun laws

 

Oh you're soooo getting shot tonight

 

Lol

 

 

I would still give a benefit of doubt to Dap since both him and Leelou were on to Cloud at the beginning and they chose Leelou over Dap to kill.

 

Which brings to two possibilities,

 

1. Cloud is mafia: Dap was right all along

2. Cloud is not mafia: In this case, the first target on Day 3 would be Dap

 

I would, for now, go with my intuition that I had presented long back

 

 

 

I think dap and Leelou have a valid point. Even a newbie like me can see that Yates self-vote was a joke and was just the first day fun. Converting that to a serious post and voting based on it does look scummy to me.

 

vote Cloud

 

And even more linking by Pralaya. Seriously, after I flip town then he will just go after Dap for no reason at all. First you agree with Dap and Leelou on me being scummy, and then you think he might be mafia?

 

 

 

 

 

Quoted because Peace pulls out the early votes from both Leelou and Ishy on Cloud and casts them as early and bogus distancing. What I find interesting is now, Leelou and Ishy are both dead.  I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but I do find it interesting that he singled them out and that they're now both dead.

It would have to be coincidental that BOTH died - unless you think the scum can talk to the 2nd anti-Town party.

 

 

I would agree that it has to be coincidental that they both died.  What I'm getting at is the fact that Peace picked them out specifically in his post because they voted Cloud with no reason at the time and cast it as a distancing maneuver.  Suddenly, they're dead.  I meant it more along the lines of is it coincidental that Peace mentioned them both in his post, calling them out for unexplained votes on Cloud and now they're dead?  Or is that the exact reason that they ended up dead?

 

 

 

To me it looks like a frame up of me.  If Cloud is scum and people believed my opinion of early distancing then his team may hope that Leelou flipping town would show my case invalid and therefore make him look less suspicious.  If he was worried that he would be lynched before Leelou he would want her dead.

 

VOTE CLOUD

 

 

Hah! YOU were the one who was linking me, Ishy and Leelou together because we were scummates distancing from each other and now their deaths were meant as some kind of frame job on you? You sure had a lot of bad luck with Despo shooting Ishy didn't you.. I hope that after I flip town you will be the next one to hang. 

 

 

Vote Razen.

 

 

Sadly I have only one vote, otherwise I would have voted for all three of them.

[WWWwombat]

VC in a sec

[_CLOUD]

And now I have to go catch an appointment. I will be back in two hours.

[hazelkrs1]

Desp..you need to re-read that whole interaction cause you've interpreted it wrong. My early thoughts were Leelou and Cloud were scum and Leelou's play came across as distancing from a scum partner.

That's exactly how I read it. It didn't look like distancing at all to me. I think you were trying to link them so that if your teammate (Cloud in this scenario) went down you could set Leelou up. Then that reasoning might have changed and you decided to kill Leelou in the hopes of keeping Cloud alive.

[peacesells]

 

Desp..you need to re-read that whole interaction cause you've interpreted it wrong. My early thoughts were Leelou and Cloud were scum and Leelou's play came across as distancing from a scum partner.

That's exactly how I read it. It didn't look like distancing at all to me. I think you were trying to link them so that if your teammate (Cloud in this scenario) went down you could set Leelou up. Then that reasoning might have changed and you decided to kill Leelou in the hopes of keeping Cloud alive.

 

 

I could see your viewpoint on the first sentence...but that makes the next sentence completely whacky.  

[hazelkrs1]

@Tina: No, I didn't kill Ishy cause he was emo. His post seemed like mock outrage to me, especially since we hadn't seen Csarlami's flip yet. Had it come after dude flipped town, it would have been one thing. But would Ishy have had a problem with me hammering scum?

 

It seemed like he knew ahead of time that Csarlami would flip town and was trying to gain town cred and set me up for a lynch, which seemed uberscummy at the time

[WWWwombat]

Vote Count

 

Peace (1/11): Serra

 

Cloud (8/11): Yates, Dap, Razen, Tiink, Pralaya, Peace, Des, Tina

 

Razen (1/11): Cloud

 

Not Voting (10/20): Verb, Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Nol, BG, Len, Crush, Krak, Ree

[lolguy26]

Your asking me why I questioned yates's vote on cloud?

 

The answer would be cuz I didn't get his vote

[michellem]

 

How you got that twisted into defending Cloud I have no idea.

 

The deaths of Ishy and LeeLou both point to DMers.  This is not to say Serra or Ree are in the clear as scum, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts neither are [what I'm assuming is] the SK.

 

Vote: Cloud

 

This could just as easily be a vote for Nolder.  *shrug*

 

 

I don't linke this post. I had a townish-read on Yates up to this. But here he smoothly manages to, without saying so, place himself outside the area of suspicion. Pinged me big time I'm suprised no-one else picked up on this; too eager to join the Cloud lynch I guess. I'm not saying I don't think Cloud is suspicious, cause he is. But this post really bugged me.

 

Thats just what we needed. Emo despo to get a gun

this game will one day be used to help tighten gun laws

 

This made me laugh XD

 

 

Des: I'm vanilla too, sorry to burst your theory. But that theory earns you a FoS from me. You've said yourself you hate set-up talk, except when you're mafia, then you love using it to confuse and distract town. So... You suddenly popping up with this theory makes me uncomfortable.

[hazelkrs1]

@Mish: You being a vanilla wouldn't "burst" my theory. I already mentioned that this obviously isn't a kitchen sink game, Leelou flipped vanilla.

 

And I'm normally not a fan of setup talk, but some cases call for it. Some mods design their games as something of a puzzle for their players to figure out, and if town doesn't figure stuff out fast enough it could cost them the game. I think its already safe to say that these games won't play out like normal games, so I think the speculation could be necessary.

 

Interesting that this theory makes you uncomfortable... Mebbe you're on of the anti-town teams that would rather stay hidden for now

[michellem]

Of course that's it. That's why I brought it up and made people pay attention to it when no-ones really bothered to comment on it before now.

 

No, it's not the content of the theory in itself that bothers me. It's that I've seen you admit openly that you will use set-up talk as a way of distracting town when you're mafia. And then here you come with set-up talk as a distraction.

[hazelkrs1]

I don't really actively use setup talk as mafia either tho- I mentioned before that as town I will many times be openly against it, while as mafia I will be openly against it while secretly loving it.

[_CLOUD]

 

 

How you got that twisted into defending Cloud I have no idea.

 

The deaths of Ishy and LeeLou both point to DMers.  This is not to say Serra or Ree are in the clear as scum, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts neither are [what I'm assuming is] the SK.

 

Vote: Cloud

 

This could just as easily be a vote for Nolder.  *shrug*

 

 

I don't linke this post. I had a townish-read on Yates up to this. But here he smoothly manages to, without saying so, place himself outside the area of suspicion. Pinged me big time I'm suprised no-one else picked up on this; too eager to join the Cloud lynch I guess. I'm not saying I don't think Cloud is suspicious, cause he is. But this post really bugged me.

 

 

 

So if you find me suspicious why aren't you voting for me?

[Yates]

 

The deaths of Ishy and LeeLou both point to DMers.  This is not to say Serra or Ree are in the clear as scum, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts neither are [what I'm assuming is] the SK.

I don't linke this post. I had a townish-read on Yates up to this. But here he smoothly manages to, without saying so, place himself outside the area of suspicion. Pinged me big time I'm suprised no-one else picked up on this; too eager to join the Cloud lynch I guess.

 

Wait.

 

What?

 

You think it's scummy that I reasoned that a DMer was the 2nd killer based on the kills? And you think it's scummy even AFTER a DMer [Des] confessed to killing Ishy [the 2nd kill]?

 

In other words, you think it's scummy that my logic was right?? 

[Yates]

Alright so first of all, it wasn't a SK who killed Ishy. It was the town Vig, who I happen to be. I found his post condemning me to be full of all kinds of mock outrage. Sucks that I made such a poor choice, since Jailkeeper is such a powerful role

 

So... Cloud-Nol scum team in T2?

That's how it's kinda lookin to me atm. Cloud/Nol in T2...

 

So... why didn't you target Cloud or Nol last night? You were all over Cloud's case yesterday while voting Salami with us. I hope you can see why I think your Vig claim is really an SK claim, right?

[Verbal32]

 

 

Quoted because Peace pulls out the early votes from both Leelou and Ishy on Cloud and casts them as early and bogus distancing. What I find interesting is now, Leelou and Ishy are both dead.  I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but I do find it interesting that he singled them out and that they're now both dead.

It would have to be coincidental that BOTH died - unless you think the scum can talk to the 2nd anti-Town party.

 

 

I would agree that it has to be coincidental that they both died.  What I'm getting at is the fact that Peace picked them out specifically in his post because they voted Cloud with no reason at the time and cast it as a distancing maneuver.  Suddenly, they're dead.  I meant it more along the lines of is it coincidental that Peace mentioned them both in his post, calling them out for unexplained votes on Cloud and now they're dead?  Or is that the exact reason that they ended up dead?

 

 

You just made the same argument again that defies all logic.  Huge FOS - Cloud looks to be the lynch today, but I think I'd rather lynch you.

 

 

 

I've been trying to play he vig role differently lately. I always used to holster N1, now I value flips a bit more so I'm a bit more reckless you could say hehe

 

N1 shots from vigs are usually awful.  Playing reckless with a freakin' gun can cost us the game.

 

 

And yeah as I have already explained I found Yates' self-vote a little scummy and I think it was reason enough to place an early vote on him. I switched to Csarmi pretty soon anyway so I never thought that it was that big of a scum tell as everyone likes to make it look. Also, you said you aren't liking Peace for linking me, Ishy and Leelou together saying that we are scummates distancing from each other, but then you decide to just vote for me after all? You aren't making any sense!

 

You are the ONLY person in the game (other than me) that should not have placed a vote on him for this reason.  You were scum with us in that game - you know the whole reason behind the strat we employed, and you were a part of it.

 

In any other player, I'd have ignored this.

 

While I think Razen is the better lynch today, I'm ok with you as a 2nd choice.

 

Vote: Cloud

[Verbal32]

 

Alright so first of all, it wasn't a SK who killed Ishy. It was the town Vig, who I happen to be. I found his post condemning me to be full of all kinds of mock outrage. Sucks that I made such a poor choice, since Jailkeeper is such a powerful role

 

So... Cloud-Nol scum team in T2?

That's how it's kinda lookin to me atm. Cloud/Nol in T2...

 

So... why didn't you target Cloud or Nol last night? You were all over Cloud's case yesterday while voting Salami with us. I hope you can see why I think your Vig claim is really an SK claim, right?

 

 

I kinda wished you hadn't said that yet.  I was angling to see if we could get him talking about it more - he'll go defensive now.  Doh!

[Yates]

I kinda wished you hadn't said that yet.  I was angling to see if we could get him talking about it more - he'll go defensive now.  Doh!

I just want an explanation, is all. He doesn't need to be defensive [yet]. Cloud is still today's lynch. I'm willing to give Des a night to shoot scum [thus proving his value] or investigate as Town before voting him to the gallows tomorrow.

[Lenlo]

Well heres my thoughts. I can see where your coming from Yates, with thinking him an SK, but my problem with this is if he was an SK why would he come out and fess up to shooting Ishy the jailkeeper right when day started and we had no idea who did it? I think he was just being a foolish towny who hoped to get lucky with a gun and missed the mark.

 

I dont like the arguement about what Des would do if he was or was not mafia between him and Mish, along with her faulty reasoning for finding Yates scummy so she has jumped up on my list from that.

 

Razen... I think hes reaching with afew of his points, but I do agree that Cloud is the best ((And at this point probably only)) lynch we can do today.

 

Vote Cloud

[Verbal32]

 

I kinda wished you hadn't said that yet.  I was angling to see if we could get him talking about it more - he'll go defensive now.  Doh!

I just want an explanation, is all. He doesn't need to be defensive [yet]. Cloud is still today's lynch. I'm willing to give Des a night to shoot scum [thus proving his value] or investigate as Town before voting him to the gallows tomorrow.

 

 

I don't like the subtle suggestion embedded here for the Cop to view Des tonight.  Assuming a rolled up game, you'd potentially have scum roles that could help either ID the Cop, or tamper with results.

 

FOS to you, my friend.

[Verbal32]

And with a BPV already confirmed, a vig claimed, and 2 NKs, the likelihood of a rolled scum team is high.