Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game 1 - Destiny Islands [Mafia Win!]

[DPR]

Peeps, if you're going to vote me for pure emo reasons, fine. I've played the way I've played and I'll live and die by the sword - that's how the game goes. But don't try to make stuff up and muddy the water for the people actually trying to make sense. 

[DPR]

I'd really want DPR dead at this point. His death must let us know about why it was important not to lynch him first day: I didn't see anyone advocating no lynch, but that was the result. If he is what he said bad for us, we'd better get our shit together, but letting him just hang out there hurts every day cause we'll never know.

 

Just kill DPR because he called me out for sheeping a vote and not making game posts.

 

fixed.

[Hallia]

That's awesome DPR

[Yates]

Damn I wish I had an ISO button. @Verb, why don't we have an ISO button?

So much this ^^^

 

Also, I love on the other site how you can highlight text and if you hit quote, only the text that is highlighted is quoted.

 

Also also, maybe it's because I'm a newb but I can't figure out how to make quotes work if I write this in notepad first [which I like to do for my multiquote responses].

 

 

Also: the logic for not lunging DPR is atrocious.

The logic PRESENTED is atrocious?  Ok, but he's Town.  Why are you unwilling to accept that option?

 

 

Unfortunately, even if DPR is town his power will become more hazardous for us the further we go into the game.

 

The reason is threefold:

 

1) no mafia worth their salt would kill someone so controversial.

2) the longer the mafia has to plan for his death the more influential and meaningful they can make their kills.

3) the only benefit to his role is extra PR uses of their abilities and the longer we wait the more likely it is that those PRs will be compromised or killed, nullifying their use.

1. Precisely.  So why wouldn't you want a Townie that scum "can't" kill?

2. How so?

3. You are forgetting the negative utility aspect.  We have two nights in a row.  There is some debate on this but IN GENERAL night favors scum.  This is compounded by a lack of wagon analysis due to the lost day.  PLUS - there is 2x the chance we lose a PR before a useful piece of information can be bread crumbed or outed.

 

 

Further, Yates, you made a point that a cop would have viewed him and revealed In this instance. This simply isn't true for a multitude of reasons.

1) the cop could have chosen to not use a view on someone already so likely to die.

2) DPR could have an ability like Nexus or godfather (example) if he is mafia

3) Roleblokers etc

4) dumb cop

5) no standard cop

1. Possible.  But unlikely to remain the case given this conversation, yes?

2. Also possible, though far less likely.  I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here in that I don't know flavor so I can't say if a GF role would make sense.

3. This is in an even lower probability range.

4. Even a dumb cop would be picking up what I'm laying down at this point.

5. Are you arguing that we have NO investigative role?  I'm obviously saying "cop" as a catch all.

 

Overall, I'd say point 2 is your best point.  And it's not great.  I would challenge the notion that you think this isn't "Town Yates" play.  You've been my mod before.  You know how I play the angles.  If DPR is scum, it WILL be confirmed by tomorrow.  I would sig bet on that if it were allowed.  If we lynch a Princess?  That is way worse then letting a scum slip by for an extra day.  Like... way WAY worse.

[Graendals favourite]

 

I'd really want DPR dead at this point. His death must let us know about why it was important not to lynch him first day: I didn't see anyone advocating no lynch, but that was the result. If he is what he said bad for us, we'd better get our shit together, but letting him just hang out there hurts every day cause we'll never know.

 

Just kill DPR because he called me out for sheeping a vote and not making game posts.

 

fixed.

 

Nah, what is a vote without another? a lonely vote. The situation demanded a vote, it was like a golden arrow pointed out from the sky in your general direction.

[Yates]

DPR stated this in the first night. His train has been the only legitimate one of the day. Town can it readily move past this issue without creating serious issues down the road and that is proven by the past two days worth if voting on DPR. Is role is irrelevant to that simple fact, and really is only relevant to the consequences of his life and death if we assume that he is telling the truth.

Wait.  Was this before or after claiming Princess?

[Darthe]

 

Damn I wish I had an ISO button. @Verb, why don't we have an ISO button?

Also: the logic for not lunging DPR is atrocious. If you aren't certain (which town aren't because evidence is circumstantial) then he is a liability. Unfortunately, even if DPR is town his power will become more hazardous for us the further we go into the game.

The reason is threefold:

1) no mafia worth their salt would kill someone so controversial.

2) the longer the mafia has to plan for his death the more influential and meaningful they can make their kills.

3) the only benefit to his role is extra PR uses of their abilities and the longer we wait the more likely it is that those PRs will be compromised or killed, nullifying their use.

Further, Yates, you made a point that a cop would have viewed him and revealed In this instance. This simply isn't true for a multitude of reasons.

1) the cop could have chosen to not use a view on someone already so likely to die.

2) DPR could have an ability like Nexus or godfather (example) if he is mafia

3) Roleblokers etc

4) dumb cop

5) no standard cop

Leaving him alive is the worst decision available. Further, that kind of logic and fearmongeri g doesn't sound like town Yates.

Now onto casing.

 

 

1. No mafia would kill the role - being controversial has nothing to do with it.

2. I don't even understand this point - you are obviously reaching here and not even making sense. How does anyone make a more meaningful kill? 

3. You contradict an otherwise perfectly non-sensical point. What? It's a role - nothing nullifies it's use.

 

You are making shit up from left-field.

 

What you go on to provide as reasons a cop wouldn't check me is just fear-mongering in and of itself.

1) indeed. Quite convenient for you isn't it?

2) it's pretty clear to me. Mafia gets more time to plan and strategize knowing that they will have a double night if you are what you say you are. Thus, they can take out outted PRs together, lynch jointly (for instance, this would screw over masons), kill two loud people without giving the extra day to case, and generally exert more influence over the game. That's dangerous when their ratio is higher. It could turn a near Lylo situation with 2 confirmed town into Lylo with no confirmed town. Yet you still insist that your life is worth the WIFOM it creates, which in itself is anti-town because it's a personal motivation painted a different color.

3) 2 nights= 2 cop views, 2 doc protects, 2 of who knows what. However, the likelihood of losing PRs, numbers, etc in general grows the longer you last, thus making them less effective as a whole. The plethora of negatives if one of them actually gets run up and reveals is worse though.

 

Lastly, your argument about my cop points being fear mongering is invalid. Why? Because I have given five potential alternatives, some of which are highly unlikely, yet all of which are possible and a couple of which are probable. You cannot compare your one moderate outcome to the likelihood of all others combined and logically beat that out, thus it is the better option and labeling It as fear mongering doesn't change that.

[Yates]

I'll post more in a bit in response to what I see happening and players setting up meta, etc. But for now, I'm the Beloved Princess. 

That's post 265 ^^

 

This is post 303 vv

My thoughts up to this point:

 

My role claim is what it is - you can like it, dislike it, do whatever you want with it. I'll admit to knowing zilch about Kingdom Hearts, which I'm sure will come to light sooner or later, so no use in pretending otherwise.  

...

 

As for being accused of "fearmongering" ( I believe by Wombat) I pointed out the deadline because we need info. I'll tell you that from a Town perspective, it was a mistake to not lynch me - the Town needs info, and without it, we're going to lose. Missing any future lynches is a sure path to a Town loss.

 

I've tried to say all of this as flat as possible. It's just information. We need it to win.

This strikes me as a post about getting a lynch in IN GENERAL.  Though I see what you are getting at...

 

@DPR - WTF are you talking about?

[Verbal32]

Damn I wish I had an ISO button. @Verb, why don't we have an ISO button?

 

What is an ISO button?

[Verbal32]

3. You are forgetting the negative utility aspect.  We have two nights in a row.  There is some debate on this but IN GENERAL night favors scum.  This is compounded by a lack of wagon analysis due to the lost day.  PLUS - there is 2x the chance we lose a PR before a useful piece of information can be bread crumbed or outed.

 

While I agree with most of what you said, this piece is not true.  We can speak at night on DM - so a Cop would have a viewing from the first night and be able to get the information out once he/she has it.  Yes, they could be killed the second night, but we can speak at night so the information can still be put on thread just in case.

 

It doesn't shoot down your reasoning, but I wanted that known.  The bolded won't be an issue.

[Darthe]

It allows you to (Iso)late all the posts made by a single individual in any given thread. Very useful for this game.

 

Yates, I'm having a damn hard time quoting things here and going back to build a case, but his play is self contradicting based on what keeps him alive at any given time. Lynch him.

[Verbal32]

It allows you to (Iso)late all the posts made by a single individual in any given thread. Very useful for this game.

 

Yates, I'm having a damn hard time quoting things here and going back to build a case, but his play is self contradicting based on what keeps him alive at any given time. Lynch him.

 

Ah, ok.  We used to have that in a previous version of DM.  Sadly, this version does not have it (or appear to).  Next time conversation comes up about upgrades, I'll mention this as a nice thing to have for mafia.

[Yates]

We can speak at night on DM - so a Cop would have a viewing from the first night and be able to get the information out once he/she has it.  Yes, they could be killed the second night, but we can speak at night so the information can still be put on thread just in case.

You people and your silly backwards night talk rules... grumble... grumble...  Yeah.  I forgot about that.  So all we lose is the ability to control a lynch?  That makes a Beloved Princess even MORE plausible, imo, and even less of a negative utility.

 

Interesting point and one I hadn't considered.

[Yates]

Yates, I'm having a damn hard time quoting things here and going back to build a case, but his play is self contradicting based on what keeps him alive at any given time. Lynch him.

Fine.  But only if he flubs his response to 608.

[Verbal32]

 

We can speak at night on DM - so a Cop would have a viewing from the first night and be able to get the information out once he/she has it.  Yes, they could be killed the second night, but we can speak at night so the information can still be put on thread just in case.

You people and your silly backwards night talk rules... grumble... grumble...  Yeah.  I forgot about that.  So all we lose is the ability to control a lynch?  That makes a Beloved Princess even MORE plausible, imo, and even less of a negative utility.

 

Interesting point and one I hadn't considered.

 

 

I don't think it makes it more plausible, but it does (slightly) lessen the negative utility.

[Darthe]

 

 

DPR stated this in the first night. His train has been the only legitimate one of the day. Town can it readily move past this issue without creating serious issues down the road and that is proven by the past two days worth if voting on DPR. Is role is irrelevant to that simple fact, and really is only relevant to the consequences of his life and death if we assume that he is telling the truth.

Wait. Was this before or after claiming Princess?

I don't quite understand what you're asking for here. DPR was at L-2 (or maybe 1?) because of his play and he claimed. He had been pushing for flimsy reasons and condemned Tina for reaction testing like we thought he was doing then the situation spiraled into back and forth between him and the people he attacked/who attacked him. His claim got an unvote from one or two people and they refused (with the exception of cloud) to get back on it before the deadline passed.

 

Hope that answered your question.

[Darthe]

Peeps, if you're going to vote me for pure emo reasons, fine. I've played the way I've played and I'll live and die by the sword - that's how the game goes. But don't try to make stuff up and muddy the water for the people actually trying to make sense.

 

Emo.

 

Hally.. If it is him or you, and you know you are town, why are you not voting him?

 

^newbie logic

[Darthe]

 

It allows you to (Iso)late all the posts made by a single individual in any given thread. Very useful for this game.

Yates, I'm having a damn hard time quoting things here and going back to build a case, but his play is self contradicting based on what keeps him alive at any given time. Lynch him.

 

 

Ah, ok.  We used to have that in a previous version of DM.  Sadly, this version does not have it (or appear to).  Next time conversation comes up about upgrades, I'll mention this as a nice thing to have for mafia.

Gracias!

[Yates]

 

 

DPR stated this in the first night. His train has been the only legitimate one of the day. Town can it readily move past this issue without creating serious issues down the road and that is proven by the past two days worth if voting on DPR. Is role is irrelevant to that simple fact, and really is only relevant to the consequences of his life and death if we assume that he is telling the truth.

Wait. Was this before or after claiming Princess?

I don't quite understand what you're asking for here.

I answered my own question in 608.  I'll elaborate more after he answers my question from that same post.

[Verbal32]

This backtracking to post #s is going to wear on me pretty soon.  If it is the same page, cool - but if it is a few pages back, please quote or paraphrase so we don't need to go back and forth.

 

Thanks,

 

-Verbal

Lazy since 1978

[Darthe]

Kk. Current VC

 

Voting

 

DPR - Dathe, Cloud, Tina, Player, GF, Des, BG (7)

Hallia - Yates, Verbal, DPR, Peace (4)

Darthe - Tiinker (1)

Verbal - WBK (1)

 

Not Voting: Krak. Hallia

 

With 15 alive it takes 9 to lynch.Deadline.

We have a bit over 8 hours (plenty of time for anything really).

[Yates]

We have a bit over 8 hours (plenty of time for anything really).

I've got my monthly meeting tonight.  So if this isn't resolved in the next 10 minutes I likely won't be getting back on until morning.  [i'm such a liar.  I *KNOW* I won't be able to sleep without checking in immediately before bed.  :/]

 

Try not to break the game or lynch any Princesses while I'm away.

[Yates]

Wait. Because I do my best thinking while getting paid to pewp...

 

We can speak at night on DM

Does this mean scum have day talk?  Also, do you guys use quicktopic or a private message thread?

[Verbal32]

Scum can typically speak anytime, and normally mods set up QTs for it.  Some do group PMs - it really depends on mod preference.  Overwhelming majority use QT, though.

[Hallia]

I'm not voting for him because I'm not convinced he's mafia. We have some time