What character can the series do without?

[raydurz]

I've been thinking that if a WOT movie was ever made, what character can the movie do without, yet still be fairly true to the series? I'm not talking about a character with just a few mentions on one book, or a major character, but someone who has been in 3 or more of the books and makes his or her presence known. I'd have to go with Olver. I don't really think he's Gaidal reincarnated and he served no real purpose, IMO, except to keep Mat in Ebou Dar, when the others left. So who do you think could be left out?

[Taren]

I suppose Rand could be left out...no im joking. Good question...hmn probably someone like that Novice Nicola, and tonnes of Aes Sedai could be left out i think. You know like some of the ones that go on both 'embassys' to Rand.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Faile plz.

[vegetattack15]

I think Slayer could easily be left out without changing the story too much, unless RJ has some big plan for tying his story together in AMOL. Really all the Slayer background has done is confuse me in an already complex family tree storyline. His part could be filled in by Shaidar Haran or Padan Fain or something.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Gawyn.

[DragonSpawn]

Avhienda. It wouldn't be too much to just write the plot lines around her, she is barely mentioned and even then only in the passing and never for very important events or central plotlines.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Avhienda. It wouldn't be too much to just write the plot lines around her, she is barely mentioned and even then only in the passing and never for very important events or central plotlines.

 

Yeah ... lol ... like the one where she has sex with Rand and it causes Lanfear to go off the deep end, setting up both the disappearance of Moiraine and the murder of Asmodean ... neither of those has gotten much attention.

 

Seriously, Jordan intertwines his characters so much that you really can't remove any but the most peripheral ... there may be characters we don't LIKE, but there are very few characters that the story can do without.

[Meliane]

hahaha, that reply was classic.

 

Aviendha is way too darned important. Have you even read the books? :P

 

I completely agree with Robert. If you took one character out, except for the most peripheral, it would unravel the Pattern that RJ has woven. :)

[Guest cwestervelt]

Avhienda. It wouldn't be too much to just write the plot lines around her' date=' she is barely mentioned and even then only in the passing and never for very important events or central plotlines.[/quote']

 

That's similar to how I see Gawyn. There isn't that much that couldn't be completely omitted or easily delegated to another character, namely Galad. The two personalities aren't as different as Elayne and Gawyn want to make them seem. I Personally feel they would have done more for the story if they were a single character. Doing so would only require dropping the Younglings and just have him leave Tar Valon while helping Min, Siuan and Leanne escape. Neither Gawyn or the Younglings have been of any real impact on the story since then, so what would the loss be? To all those that are no burning with rage at me for so belittling the source of Egwene's puppy love crush, I'm just calling it how I see it. :twisted:

 

Until you mentioned it, I never really saw Aviendha that way but I can see where you are coming from. Maybe it was because she is mentioned and on screen so much more.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Avhienda. It wouldn't be too much to just write the plot lines around her' date=' she is barely mentioned and even then only in the passing and never for very important events or central plotlines.

[/quote']

 

Yeah ... lol ... like the one where she has sex with Rand and it causes Lanfear to go off the deep end, setting up both the disappearance of Moiraine and the murder of Asmodean ... neither of those has gotten much attention.

 

Seriously, Jordan intertwines his characters so much that you really can't remove any but the most peripheral ... there may be characters we don't LIKE, but there are very few characters that the story can do without.

 

All that is needed there is to move Min's return on stage forward some and have the Lanfear's hissy fit occur over her.

[Guest cwestervelt]

hahaha' date=' that reply was classic.

 

Aviendha is way too darned important. Have you even read the books? :P

 

I completely agree with Robert. If you took one character out, except for the most peripheral, it would unravel the Pattern that RJ has woven. :)[/quote']

 

I've read the books, most of them two or three times. I tend to agree that Aviendha has not been irreplaceable. A little harder than some others maybe, but she can definitely be replaced.

[Meliane]

I think everyone is irreplacable. We aren't RJ's editors.

[RobertAlexWillis]

All that is needed there is to move Min's return on stage forward some and have the Lanfear's hissy fit occur over her.

 

Um, thats hardly a simple change, since Min came with an embassy that reached Rand in a place he didn't rule over until after the events in question, and her actions influenced both that embassy and Rand's reaction to them.

 

Not to mention eliminating Aviendha affects many other storylines.

 

No, removing Aviendha is not simple at all.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I think everyone is irreplacable. We aren't RJ's editors.

 

The decisions of RJ's editor don't have much bearing on this particular discussion. This thread deals with a potential movie. Should one ever be made, the screen writers will replace/remove/merge characters.

[Guest cwestervelt]

All that is needed there is to move Min's return on stage forward some and have the Lanfear's hissy fit occur over her.

 

Um' date=' thats hardly a [i']simple[/i] change, since Min came with an embassy that reached Rand in a place he didn't rule over until after the events in question, and her actions influenced both that embassy and Rand's reaction to them.

 

Not to mention eliminating Aviendha affects many other storylines.

 

No, removing Aviendha is not simple at all.

 

I would disagree with you that Min's actions influenced both the embassy and Rand's reaction to them. The only reason that Min came with the embassy was to get her hooked up with Rand again. That could have been done by having her go her seperate way after getting Suian out of Tar Valon. The embassy would have attempted to handle Rand in the same way whether Min was there or not. Verin was much more influential to the end result. The result would be that Rand would have reacted to them in much the same way. Neither side had any intention of being reasonable, but none of that was Min's fault.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The only reason that Min came with the embassy was to get her hooked up with Rand again.

 

Well, I agree with you as to Min's motives ... lol ... she came right out and said as much.

 

But there are additional complications with Min's arrival in Cairhien rather than Caemlyn. How does she find Rand? She only found him in Caemlyn because she went with the Aes Sedai. He had only just left the Three-Fold Land. Rumor had not had time to disseminate his new location.

 

And I think you underestimate her influence on Rand's dealings with the Aes Sedai. She didn't mitigate the Aes Sedai's agenda at all, its quite true. But he fled immediately when he found out there were 13 of them, at the inn, from Min, right into the Tower embassy's trap.

 

And, like I said, that is not the only storyline Aviendha influences.

[SBoydW]

I think that..... you could cut..... Moiraine... after the fifth book... just let her be dead. Lanfear too. lol j/k. Seriously um.... Bayle Domon? Harid Fel? OOO OOO OOO How about... Shai'Tan :twisted: ! You have yet to see him just Give all the credit to Ishamael.

 

Again, seriously... I really don't see how anyone could be cut unless you just put in another character. The only usless part of RJ's books in my opinion is all the description. Every characters was put there for a reason no matter how small. All of the small/large characters from what I've seen have done something neccesary to the story. Because most everyone appears more than once and usually in a different role than they first appeared in. All the characters in the books are neccesary in my opinion.

[Meliane]

Oh. Hopefully it will never be made into a movie because that movie would just be so sad since it wouldn't come close enough to the books to make most people happy.

 

I have no desire to see this on film; I can see it all in my head!

[Guest cwestervelt]

Meliane:

I used to want to see a movie version. The chance of a satisfactory one is so small that I no longer do.

 

Robert:

I understand what you are saying. If you eliminate any characters, the story would have to change. Do I think RJ could have written as compelling of a tale without Aviendha and used Min instead? Yes I do. We wouldn't have the story as it now stands, but we would have a story written in such a way that we would never know she was gone yet still retaining all of the crucial elements. When it comes to a tentative movie, which I believe the original poster of this thread stated, there is no doubt that they could do it. We probably wouldn't like the result because it would change the story that way know and love, but when has that ever stopped Hollywood. If a screen writer wanted to sacrifice Aviendha and use Min as the character that sparks Lanfear's rage a way to do so would be found.

 

One way would be to start with Min never getting sent to Tar Valon when Rand runs off in the Dragon Reborn. After all, what good did she do there? She was as effective as Cassandra in Troy. As a result, an adaption would have no real problem sacrificing that part of her role. The just leaves her freeing of Suian, and that could be accomplished by a guilt ridden Gawyn. It wouldn't even require stretching things that much because even though he didn't instigate Suian's escape, he was still instrumental in the success of her escape. With that taken care of, Min is now free to go with Moiraine to Tear and then on to the Waste with Rand making her available for the tryst with Rand. Move the location of the tryst to a convenient location, or even skip it for that matter, Kadere never had proof after all, and the stage is set for Min to incence Lanfear to maniacal rage. Now they just need to find a way to get warnings to Rand concerning Meranna's emissary in Caemlyn. There are lots of Aiel around the palace so there is no issue of any of them making it in without him finding out about them. A little creative license and suddenly Bashere learns about the presense of 13 Aes Sedai in the city and reports it to Rand.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I would eliminate Aviendha. I'm just saying that I can see ways to make it possible for other existing characters to have filled her shoes. It's essentially a give that the story that we know and love will not survive if it is made into a movie. If the screen writers want to eliminate a character, even a major one, any part of the story that stands in the way could either be rewritten or simply eliminated. Sure, if you expect that a movie would actually be truly faithful to the story as it is written, which would be virtually unheard of in a screen adaptation, then yes you are right, no one could be eliminated. If however, you expect a screen writer to do what a screen writer does, then almost anyone can be replaced/removed. Even Shai'tan as one other poster jokingly stated. It wouldn't be the first time that a movie bore virtually no resemblence to the book it was supposedly based on.

[Guest Majsju]

Removing Avi would mean severing the one personal bond Rand has with the Aiel. Sure, the father he never met was Aiel, the mother he never met pretended to be. But the only living Aiel he has an actual relation with is Avi.

 

If one of his girls is to go, Min would be easiest to get rid of. Just give her ability to Avi or Elayne, and off she goes.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

Removing Avi would mean severing the one personal bond Rand has with the Aiel. Sure' date=' the father he never met was Aiel, the mother he never met pretended to be. But the only living Aiel he has an actual relation with is Avi.

 

If one of his girls is to go, Min would be easiest to get rid of. Just give her ability to Avi or Elayne, and off she goes.[/quote']

 

For all that personal relationship has done... I don't see Rand treating the Aiel any differently because of Avi specifically. The Maidens seem to keep him tied more effectively. And the WOs by sheer force of will.

 

I could imagine Avi being removed. The "hissyfit" RAW describes could easily be foisted off on some other reason... or none at all... Lanfear is bat-poop crazy and that breakdown was coming.

 

But I don't see how you can remove one of his Light o Loves. I mean, you can't measure the scope of his relationship with one of them as a factor. It's the plot advancement. And since there's often two together and one with Rand... I don't know.

 

This is a really complicated question, because each character's plot line is so twisted with another's that you have to sit down and map their journey and see when shortcuts could be taken.

[rrmike]

Avi could easily be done without. Kadere could just as easily have told LanF that he thought he had slept with Egw and had her go into her tissy fit. They are not real people and sometimes their actions don't make perfect sense to me but they have to do them to make the intended story line come about.

 

It would have been easy enough to have some random encounter between them look like a lovers quarrel or whatever to Kadere. Or he could simply mention that he's in love with Elayne in Kadere's hearing and RJ could use that as the basis for LanF's outburst.

 

I personally like Avi but I don't buy for one second that you couldn't edit her out without losing a single important part of the overall storyline.

 

I like the books just the way they are but it could work very well with a lot removed. The Senchan <-sp? could very easily have just done away with the Shaido off screen without any character involvement which would obviate the need to have Faile (and her subsequent capture).

[RobertAlexWillis]

Without bothering to quote you, I see your point, cwestervelt.

 

Lanfear is bat-poop crazy

 

You said bat-poop! :lol:

[Guest cwestervelt]

Without bothering to quote you' date=' I see your point, cwestervelt.

 

Lanfear is bat-poop crazy

 

You said bat-poop! :lol:

 

That's all I ask. Now let's hope it never comes to someone deciding to do what I outlined.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That's all I ask. Now let's hope it never comes to someone deciding to do what I outlined.

 

Yup ... because they would discover that while possible, it would be a serious pain in the bat-poop.

 

I don't know why thats so funny to me, but it is!