[ADVANCED] Forsaken in the White Tower: Town wins!

[ruairidh7]

If he's going to save himself he'd better do it now because if he waits till to close to the deadline he will end up lynched anyway

[WolfbrotherKronos]

It will probably be Len or Rand because of length.

[Kaylee]

Lenlo/Rand: why shouldn't we lynch you?

 

Kae: what are your thoughts? You still around?

 

RTE: what are your thoughts? Deadline is today.

 

I haven't as yet placed a vote because I'm just not sure. I'd like to hear what they have to say about why they shouldn't be lynched. I'll vote to heee keep from going random, but prefer to lynch based on play.

[Kaylee]

I'm leaning more toward Rand atm.

[RandA lThor]

OK, since I am going to be gone for a long portion of the day, I am going to claim.  I am Elayne, vanilla town.  This is why I was suspicious of Thom.  I feel like Elayne has done much more to hunt down the Black Ajah and she is only vanilla town.  However, if it comes down to deadline, I may as well be a good lynch since I am not a power role, and you will get information off of me.

[Kaylee]

Excuse the question but to clarify...the OP says we're looking for forsaken. So what does your character going after Black Ajah have to due with proving your town?"

 

(I haven't finished book two yet so I'm kinda lost. That and it's been a few years since I was that far)

[ruairidh7]

Elayne as vanilla and Thom Merrilin with a power role? I know we shouldn't put too much faith in canon but that doesn't really add up for me

[Lenlo]

Really? Dang... Hello Aes Sedai, meet your Warder.

 

I am Birgette, vanilla town. It is because of who I am that I believe Clouds claim.

 

Sadly we only have 8 hours till deadline so I feel I have to move to Rand.

 

unvote vote Rand

[John E. Kelley]

You're all gaming the mod at this point. Big no-no.

[John E. Kelley]

Jeez Len.....

[ruairidh7]

You're all gaming the mod at this point. Big no-no.

 

I always struggle with this concept, spell it out to me please

[Lenlo]

Im sorry Ishy, but we were asked and we are the only two trains that people are going to be willing to lynch. I really think Moon is a better lynch today but I am obviously not going to be able to get 10 more people to move to her in the span of 7 hours.

[Sakaea]

I'm here. Sorry, long weekend. Let me check something just a sec.

[Sakaea]

Ok, DL is in about 8 hours, and I don't think we should lynch either Rand or Lenlo. Rand is at L-2, and I don't think any scum in their right minds would fake claim Elayne or Birgitte. So I believe them both for now. I don't necessarily think Darthe is scum atm, but he is the only other person with any votes now. I think we should either try to lynch Darthe, or Wheel. Wheel pinged me hard for her reasons for voting for Rand, and I don't like it. I'll be around most of the day, so I am going to Vote Wheel for now, but I will be here to change it if I have to.  Oh, and welcome to the game, Kronos and Roo!

[Sakaea]

Rand missing is suspicious to me.... unvote vote Rand

 

 

 

 

Rand missing is suspicious to me.... unvote vote Rand

Rand had been gone for all games.  Why is Rand being gone suspicious here?

 

UNVOTE

 

VOTE WHEEL

 

Seems like scum trying to come up with a reason to vote.

 

this is the only game I'm playing with him right now.... plus, I might not be on tomorrow because I have to go to the doctor to check my concussion... I find it better to vote for him now instead of tomorrow people complaining that they don't want the vote to go random and start telling people to switch their votes and me not being there to do so... while I'm more confident with a Lenlo lynch, Rand seems the way to go right now...

 

 

have you ever played with me before?? even though this is my fourth or fifth game, I'm still learning what to do because I've never been good at analyzing things, and everyone always thinks that I'm mafia... then they either end up lynching me, or I'm night killed and proven town... 

 

 

Ok, for reference. Thinks we should go Lenlo, but votes for Rand, and then appeals to the town saying she always gets lynched or NK'd and is proven town. That reeks even more than her vote.

[ruairidh7]

I'd be willing to go along with that Kae (before someone accuses me of bandwagoning, I've already said Wheel was pinging and explained why), but I'm not sure we have enough time. Your point about scum not being daft enough to claim Elayne or Birgitte is a good one, which I hadn't considered.

[peacesells]

Len, you aren't much of a Warder are you.  You know there is a Darthe train right?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Big post incoming! The order is going to be a little odd but bear with me. Will try to say whose posts I quoted.

 

Darthe

 

 

To answer the question about why I didn't vote for Darthe, it was because it seemed obvious to me that a train on him would go nowhere. I assumed that if no one would vote for him after noticing what Panda and I have, then you never would. But I'll see if I can change that.


Vote Darthe.

 

Eww this post was bloody awful.  

 

I have to agree with this. This is terrible, terrible logic on (Panda I believe?)'s part. Awful. If you are confident about the feeling you have about someone, you would try to give everyone helpful information to help them make an informed decision. Also, you'd stick to your vote because it's what you feel is right. It's not like we were at deadline, she could have started this 'train' a long time ago and looked for support instead of jumping on Rand or Lenlo.

 

Rand

OK back, trying to do a reread and why everyone wants to vote me.  Mainly 

Tina >

 

 

Darthe, I'm not sure what my reputation is or why it's unwarranted; in any case, I wasn't saying 'vote Darthe because of my reputation', so I don't know why you brought it up. I'm focusing on you because you were the only one to suggest that Cloud was confirmed town (or almost so) as a result of his vote. He's not, and I explained why. The fact that you believed his claim so suddenly suggests to me that you might have more information than the rest of the town does.

You're backpedaling now to say that he's only somebody that you have a town read on. That would have been a fair enough reaction to have, but it wasn't your initial reaction.

No I'm not. Have you legitimately never seen this done because its done by me in almost every game and is done by almost everyone on mafiascum. I'm not going to change for the site meta when the site meta creates issue. You can nitpick the difference between "I have this person on my town list" and "this persons townie" all you want but both say the same thing, my stance on the individual currently based on their play.

 

 

>e="1358446546">

^ you should have seen the last game I was in then. We caught 3 scum in 2 days with Vig help and caught the 4th on D4.

I do not intend to be brash by saying this but I have no intentions of changing things that help me when the groups here won't play as a team. If I can't decide that I trust some people in each game because you all find that "scummy" then lynch me each game and give scum an early advantage. But I happen to know that hunting scum is easier when you have solid reads on others, even if they are temporary. Selfish play gets

punished.

 

None of these posts makes sense to me. What are you talking about?

 

I agree with Cloud about Rand. Will keep my vote there.

 

What makes you agree with my vote on Rand? I personally have only played one game with him so I don't really know his meta. I think an explanation from you why you think Rand is scum would help out a lot. 

 

Moon>

>

_Cloud, I'm going to trust your judgement on Rand. 

He hasn't been sitting well with me. But, he never does. 

 

unvote vote Rand

 

Same holds true for you. You shouldn't trust my judgement in any Mafia game. It seems like you know Rand's meta well enough so please explain yourself more. Right now it looks to me like you are preparing for bussing Rand. FoS.

 

 

Peace>

Thom is an interesting choice.  Maybe a mod provided safe claim?

 

I'm doubting Clouds alignment a bit now with that character reveal.

 

Lol. You doubting my claim after I revealed my character?? Characters are almost worth nothing. It's the role that matters. FoS. 

 

Rand> 

OK really quick since I have to leave school soon, the only reason that I saw that was specifically pointed out for voting me is me sayingnot to claim your character. I thought that as Halli was new I might be precautious.

 

I'm sorry to say it but that's plain bs dude. If you were worried about Hallia then you should have just named her in your post, which you did not do. 

 

Dap> 

Im gunna risk it.
Cloud normally the point of having an anonymous vote is for it to be secret. Having it follow you seems very unsecret. Seems a little off.
I had been ignoring it but your last comment pinged

 

Please explain what pinged at my comment, or I can't take you serious. This also holds true for everyone else here. I understand your doubt about the anonymous vote, but secrecy fits well with Thom's character. 

 

Also Dap I think> 

I think it's odd that it says anonymous in the VC at all. Usually with a double voter the number just goes up. At least, in my experience. Anyone else?

 

In my experience being a double voter i PMd the person i wanted my second vote on and it would appear. It could be different

 

Check the Mafia wiki for the doublevoter role. It clearly says that it doesn't have to be used through a PM. 

 

OK, I agree with Peace on this one, Thom isn't a very common character in the WT, which he purposely tries to avoid, and I wouldn't see any reason why he would be in, much less a PR that can double vote.  I don't think it fits his character, and I don't think it fits here.  Nevertheless, I'll give Cloud the benefit of the doubt for now.  However, my attention moves to Mish for now.  Firstly, the blind trust in Cloud does not depend on his alignment.  If he is a teammate, it could be protection, or if he is town, it could be defending a townie to look like town yourself.  You are pushing much too strongly and it seems like you have information town doesn't.

 

Secondly, the way that you voted Peace right when he asked you where a vote was very suspicious to me.

 

Third of all, and this is less strong, but comes from personal experience, when I don't know how to respond to a statement that someone has made, and don't want to sound scummy, I put a laugh emoticon, or a lol, just to look like I am active enough, and engaged, but open to humor and town.  This is more of a gut feeling, but I feel that my previous 2 reasons hold up well.  For those reasons, unvote vote Mish

 

Ok you have just dug your own grave here. 

 

Blue: You agree with Peace, but not with everyone else who has also posted their doubt about my claim?? It looks like you are trying to latching yourself on Peace that after your lynch they will go after him. Noted. 

Green: What?! You explain that Thom isn't a common character in the WT, you don't believe that he can double vote, and you don't think that it fits in this game. AND YET you still choose to believe me? The only logical action here would be that you have voted for me. 

Maroon: Yes, please list all the reasons why Mish could be both Town as well as Mafia. Nice WIFOM dude. 

Orange: Irrelevant. 

 

 

Conclusion? Rand is scum. 

 

I'm going to eat something now and when I come back I will prepare more evidence for the rest of the players. 

this is why everyone is voting me.  SO let me respond to this.

 

First of all, I saw no reason to single out Hallia and put her name there, I made it a general statement, just in case.  

 

Second, in the blue, I did not latch myself to Peace, I agreed with the person who I remembered most to doubt your claim.  I just didn't want to list the name of everyone else who agreed with that idea.

 

Thirdly, in the green, I try not to vote out PRs unless there is a good reason.  That being said, what you have done recently, has started to give me some good reasons.

 

Fourthly, no I did not post reasons for why Mish is town or mafia, I said that whether you were mafia or town, Mish looks like mafia, hence my vote on her.

 

If anyone has any more questions, then ask me, I will try to answer ASAP.

 

unvote, vote Lenlo to not get random.

 

Sorry I had to quote this massive, ugly post (no offense but the quotes make it very hard to read). I think this is a pretty good reply from Rand to his criticisms and accusations, although it could have been better. What is terribly, terribly disappointing is how he closes it all out with a vote against Lenlo "just to avoid a random". No claim, no reasoning, nothing. "Oh hai guys I'm going to vote for the other person with the most votes, and if enough of you switch, you'll forget about me!". Seriously Rand?

 

The Rand train seems incredibly lazy to me, his supposed "case" is trumped up nonsense. We have plenty of time to have no need to lynch him merely to consolidate. And anyone else find it humorous that I call Tress out for inactivity, and she appears immediately?

 

I forgot who I quoted here but I kind of see this too. Rand kind of stabbed himself in the foot a couple of times but I'm not sure if he's scummy or just really did a poor job with his posts thus far, and is basically only hurting himself and town if he is a townie. Not sure I get a scum read from him though, more just someone tripping over his own feet.

 

Piano

Humorous indeed

 

I prefer Rand to Lenlo. I think him and moon are mafia

 

In the other games ive played with Rand a vote normally makes him react with a joke to try shrug it off and move on. In this game he is twitchy at all sorts.

He starts off joke voting moon. Gets defensive about it being a random vote.

I call out moon. Rand defends her straight away and steers the conversation away from that and towards Darthe, the person Moon called mafia. Tiinker calls him out on it and he gets all defensive and tries to explain himself. He then jumps on the next thing to happen to a player (Hallia getting taught on the QT is she has one). He gets called out by that and back pedals. Moon agrees with Rands assessment of her.

Now im not sure of the exact timing of Rands absence but he doesnt really comment on his votes

 

 

This is one of the better arguments against Rand, and I think is probably the most interesting. Who else can add to this? How is Rand's behaviour relative to his past games? Come on people, let's not kill a townie if he's just shooting himself in the foot..

 

Peace

Oh goodie a Darthe train.

 

I can jump back on.  UNVOTE VOTE DARTHE.

 

THIS IS SO SCUMMY ARRGGG. Again, seriously? I honestly have really bad feelings against anyone on this Darthe train. Why? Because where were they 6 pages ago? Seriously? Oh hey guys, let's jump on the new train! I don't see this as helpful to town in any way. At all. And i don't think their argument is very good if they were so willing to vote the other way. Peace didn't even give an argument here! Seriously, what is this post?!

 

ruairidh7

A few thoughts: Cloud's reveal was a bit clumsy. The claim of Thom jars a little bit in my mind, but I don't think it's a good idea to set too much store by canon. As we know mods can and usually do take a fair bit of artistic license when designing games. Also, a claim obviously drew attention, and I don't think mafia with any kind of experience would let Cloud draw such attention to himself so early in the game under so little pressure. Darthe is a wind up merchant extraordinaire and I find it makes him difficult to read at times Moon has come under a bit of pressure but I can't say I've noticed anything. Perhaps I've missed something. Wheel's exchange with Peace a couple of pages ago pinged me somewhat. It looked like she was playing the noob card despite having a few games experience. However, it doesn't seem like we have enough time to secure a lynch on anyone except Rand or possibly Lenlo. I've noticed all the same things as everyone else has pointed out in making their cases, but I'm not convinced 100%, though I realise we can't let it go random. Do we think it's worth Rand, Lenlo or both of them making a claim?

 

Candidate for best post of the game thus far. I totally agree on Cloud's reveal. I also don't think a Mafia team would let Cloud do that. It just was handled really poorly. I totally agree on his opinion of Darthe. If Darthe's playstyle does one thing, it is really make you wait to get a good read on him because he always comes out shooting in every direction. He's confusing to everyone, but I think it's because his plans are just as confusing to him, town or not. Not sure anyone could reign him in anyways. Moon I don't quite have an opinion on.

 

Lenlo

Really? Dang... Hello Aes Sedai, meet your Warder.

 

I am Birgette, vanilla town. It is because of who I am that I believe Clouds claim.

 

Sadly we only have 8 hours till deadline so I feel I have to move to Rand.

 

unvote vote Rand

 

THIS WAS TERRIBLE. Ok, backstory. Most of you know I kinda lost the game for town in my last mafia game against Lenlo. So my vote has been on him since the start. Basically, it was a "start of the game" vote with no real evidence or backing. However, after that game I do not feel I can trust Lenlo at all. This however, this takes the cake. This has to be the most unnecessary reveal of all time. Seriously. The hell is this? With everyone going back and forth on Rand, he didn't need to get in with Cloud to explain a vote switch to Rand anyways. This was a terrible misplay on his part. But we know Len is much better than this. This game has not called for early reveals (unlike our last game where we lost many, many townies early on). This was unnecessary, foolish, and not a mistake Len would make. Therefore, for better or worse, I'm keeping my vote on him for now. We'll see where the votes fall, I don't want a random and won't let that happen, but I cannot trust Len.

[Lenlo]

Len, you aren't much of a Warder are you.  You know there is a Darthe train right?

Hey! I didnt agree to the bonding! Im pretty sure she did it on her own.

 

Also I knew it. After WW2 people wont believe my claims!

[peacesells]

Release The Evil.  Skim much?  Re-read again.  I started the case against Darthe. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

Len, you aren't much of a Warder are you.  You know there is a Darthe train right?

Hey! I didnt agree to the bonding! Im pretty sure she did it on her own.

 

Also I knew it. After WW2 people wont believe my claims!

 

Why would you even be making this claim on day 1?!?!?!

 

This helps neither of you, nor does it help town. We now have two supposed vanillas who have come out, and another who can double vote. Guess who's looking for a ticket to the finals? Our dear vanilla claims...

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Release The Evil.  Skim much?  Re-read again.  I started the case against Darthe. 

 

Great. You started it, where did it go?

 

"Oh look, Darthe came up again! Let me get back on that!"

 

Why didn't you stick to it?

[peacesells]

 

Release The Evil.  Skim much?  Re-read again.  I started the case against Darthe. 

 

Great. You started it, where did it go?

 

"Oh look, Darthe came up again! Let me get back on that!"

 

Why didn't you stick to it?

No traction. Pay attention. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

 

Release The Evil.  Skim much?  Re-read again.  I started the case against Darthe. 

 

Great. You started it, where did it go?

 

"Oh look, Darthe came up again! Let me get back on that!"

 

Why didn't you stick to it?

No traction. Pay attention. 

 

Were you in a rush?

 

If you believed someone was scum, and this belief didn't start an hour before deadline (although even a train that late, if a good one, I'm sure could get going), why would you drop the case?

 

Are you not so sure? Did you never think Darthe was scum at all? Do you have no evidence? Is it just a feeling?

 

What about your lovely "Darthe train time!" post? A little enthusiastic, are we?

[Lenlo]

 

 

Len, you aren't much of a Warder are you.  You know there is a Darthe train right?

Hey! I didnt agree to the bonding! Im pretty sure she did it on her own.

 

Also I knew it. After WW2 people wont believe my claims!

 

Why would you even be making this claim on day 1?!?!?!

 

This helps neither of you, nor does it help town. We now have two supposed vanillas who have come out, and another who can double vote. Guess who's looking for a ticket to the finals? Our dear vanilla claims...

Because we were asked for claims and were the two biggest trains?