Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Beer Rot]

 

My point being that the White was the single most important insitution in the third age.Is it in the same position in the fourth age?. Absolutely not. Cairhien and Andor are ruled by one AS. Altara is ruled by the Seachan not any AS.

 

The power of the WT in the third age was tht fact tht no other group could use the OP openly. Once that monoploy was broken,the WT was on the way down.

An Aes Sedai rules one third of the Westlands, and they have more pull on the independent factions than any other group. The Aiel have already shown respect for Cads, Nynaeve, and Elayne. Androl (who, as far as i can tell, is the second most influential person in the Black Tower) is bonded to an Aes Sedai, and it is likely those two groups will integrate. Tear and Illian have already shown that they still bow to the will of the Amyrlin Seat, that's why they were at the FoM in the first place. The Windfinders are devoutly opposed to the Seachan. Elayne has a small claim on Saldea, and the Queen of Malkier is another Aes Sedai. The White Tower, right now, is strong. And there's no reason to believe it won't be the center for learning and channeling for the next few hundred years, since the Aiel and Windfinders are likely to maintain their own, separate cultural identity and the Seachan are gonna have a hard time getting that rule.

 

And the future doesn't matter to this discussion, since we are talking about the authority of the Amyrlin Seat right now, not down the line.

 

Edit: "Has influence over" is not the same as "rules". The White Tower doesn't rule the Black Tower, but they are more likely to be able to affect what the Black Tower is doing than any other group, at present.

 

Elayne has no claim on Saldea, she has a very small connection to it.  With Perrin giving stewardship of the Two Rivers to Tam, and his and that chit's ascension to the throne, Ghealdan is no longer tied to Elayne either.  Its only an alliance by desire now.

[Beer Rot]

Excepts Cads might drop dead anytime,how will she do a long term transition?

 

Seems obvious to me that Cadsuane will quickly drop the oaths when she figures out it will (at least) triple her life span.  Most of the old guard that were adamant about keeping the oaths (Romanda, Suian, Egwene) are dead.  I'm sure Sharina will be against holding the rod once she gains the shawl and gets that big ol automatic boost of respect. 

 

And with Cadsuane's friendship with Sorilea and the respect of the other Wise Ones, and her hold over the Windfinders (I bet Harine will be THRILLED to become Mistress of Ships after hearing who the new Amyrlin is), Cadsuane will easily surpass Egwene in terms of badassery.

[TNine]

 

Elayne has no claim on Saldea, she has a very small connection to it.  With Perrin giving stewardship of the Two Rivers to Tam, and his and that chit's ascension to the throne, Ghealdan is no longer tied to Elayne either.  Its only an alliance by desire now.

Perrin and Faile both swore oaths to Elayne, last i checked, and are considered subjects of Elayne. After Tenobia and Bashere died, Faile became Queen of Saldea, meaning that Elayne just got a very strong claim there. Could Faile simply break off and not subject herself to Elayne? It is entirely possible, but that's simply conjecture. Regardless, Perrin is not likely to leave the Two Rivers. Where did Perrin give Tam stewardship? I'm pretty sure he just left him in command for Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Most of this is, unfortunately, conjecture. At the time of AMOL, however, Elayne had control of Andor, Cairhien, Manatherin, and Ghealdon. It is hard to say what the future will bring.

[Beer Rot]

 

 

Elayne has no claim on Saldea, she has a very small connection to it.  With Perrin giving stewardship of the Two Rivers to Tam, and his and that chit's ascension to the throne, Ghealdan is no longer tied to Elayne either.  Its only an alliance by desire now.

Perrin and Faile both swore oaths to Elayne, last i checked, and are considered subjects of Elayne. After Tenobia and Bashere died, Faile became Queen of Saldea, meaning that Elayne just got a very strong claim there. Could Faile simply break off and not subject herself to Elayne? It is entirely possible, but that's simply conjecture. Regardless, Perrin is not likely to leave the Two Rivers. Where did Perrin give Tam stewardship? I'm pretty sure he just left him in command for Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Most of this is, unfortunately, conjecture. At the time of AMOL, however, Elayne had control of Andor, Cairhien, Manatherin, and Ghealdon. It is hard to say what the future will bring.

 

No, they didn't.  And they even made an agreement should Perrin and chit get the throne.  There's a connection, but Elayne has no claim on Saldea, nor does she have any control over Ghealdan, Alliandre is sworn to Perrin.. Perrin never transfered that to Elayne in any POV I saw.   Once Tenobia and the Basheres died, it became Elayne with Andor and Carhien and Perrin with Saldea and Ghealdan.

[XXX]

Elayne controls 2 countries Andor and Carhien. There is no country called Manetheran.And she does not control Ghealdan. The biggest power land wise on Randland is the Seachan not Elayne. They also have the biggest army and they consider the Amyrlin at the same level as they consider a dog.

[XXX]

 

Every ruler in Randland USED to kiss the Amyrlin's ring.

As of AMOL, they are still doing it, so...

 

Wrong,the biggest ruler in Randland considers her little better than a dog if that.

[Suttree]

@TNine

 

Here are a few quotes that tell you all you need to know.

 

xxx

BTW it is unnatural the high place of women in a low tech environment like Randland.The only reason for it is that women could channel safely in the last 3000 years and that influence has filtered down to all levels of society. Now that the men can channel too, the equation is balanced and a low tech world the balance will swiftly change to the way our own world has been except for the last 50 years. The AS as a woman organization cannot be a supreme group any more.

 

Oh you are right. If it was real world men will not quiver with fear under a glance by a woman.

 

In nature among mammals even leaving out humans the physically superior gender has generally dominated be it felines or even our closest neighbors the great apes. No amount of feminist propaganda changes that.

And Randland is an environment where war is an ongoing concern which means naturally it should be male dominated.

 

All he will do is continue to ignore the issues the Seanchan have in front of them and the deal in place with the Dragons Peace. He will not listen to common sense that the AS will continue to have a large influence despite all evidence to the contrary. As long as xxx has been here he's been pissed about AS being in a position of power.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Barid Bel Medar

[XXX]

Mods:- Isn't attacking other members calling them trolls against the rules?

[XXX]

Love it the way people get their panties in a twist when reminded that the AS will no longer be the "ultimate power" in Randland as they were in the third age.

[Suttree]

Mods:- Isn't attacking other members calling them trolls against the rules?

Not when it's true(or are you forgetting that you openly admitted trolling me in the past?)

 

As for the rest it has nothing to do with AS. It has to do with you being willfully ignorant on the reality of the story in order to put forth your own biased viewpoint. Which we can all clearly see from the quotes is somewhat disturbing.

[Cirin]

Egwene... she was one of the Aes Sedai, wasn't she?

 

 

 

All in all, Egwene was a character that annoyed me throughout most of the series.  Don't get me wrong, I could understand where she was coming from, and thought she was well-written, and I enjoyed parts of her overall story arc... I think what always irked me is that she often acted like a teenager throughout the series (which is appropriate, because she was), very convinced of her role and her power, discussing how the Dragon needs her guidance, how the Aes Sedai need her guidance and leadership... but unlike others in the story who acted similar, she never got called to task for this line of thinking.  Whereas other characters came face to face with their own limitations and were forced to say "Huh, maybe I don't have things as together as I thought," Egwene was ultimately a character that had things fall in place for her.  This doesn't mean it was easy (being made damane, being beaten in the White Tower, etc), but even in those negative situations, she found a way to turn them positive, without ever having to really learn humility.

 

Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that it's a character flaw.  That lack of humility and almost juvenile sense of control is a part of her character, and is a part of real life - but that doesn't mean that I enjoyed her character because of it.  Ultimately life worked out the way she planned that it would - even, to some extent, her death fighting Taim - counteracting the balefire and more or less becoming the "Flame of Tar Valon."  A far more painful experience for her would have been a long depression following Gawyn's death, the pain of rebuilding a broken White Tower, etc.  Again, I don't fault her for her personality or the fact that things worked out for her to pretty much always be right, but it made her less appealing to me... maybe she reminds me too much of myself. 

 

Still, I think her death was appropriate, and I think, in many ways, that it is exactly what she would've chosen for herself.  That gets back to the juvenile sense I was talking about - better to die in a blaze of glory and live in legend forever than to face the monotony and heartache of rebuilding a world that had been shattered.  I think she remained, in many ways, the youngest of the Two Rivers folk... in her motivations if not in her actions.  Gawyn was much the same way.  They want a Romeo and Juliot ending, not a King Lear one.  The fire and passion of youth.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Talk of trolling is a hard one to deal with. 

 

I have removed the reference, since calling someone a troll is against the rules. 

 

However, I am concerned about Suttree's comments, that trolling was admitted to. While accusing someone of trolling is not acceptable, neither is purposely trolling, it is antagonising and creates conflicts. If this has been admitted, I can't find much sympathy when others point it out. 

 

So my suggestions: 

 

Suttree: I would not accuse people of trolling via public boards, no matter the validity. If you suspect trolling, bring it to the moderators and it will be seen to. 

 

XXX47: I don't know the history, however, if Suttree is telling the truth, I advise that you make clear which posts are to be taken seriously, and which are less serious. It is unfair on others. They are unable to accuse people on public boards of trolling, however, this means that they have no idea whether to take you seriously or ignore you completely. It is not a position any user should be put in. All posts should be able to be taken seriously unless the purpose is clearly humorous or sarcastic. Obviously, misunderstandings and misinterpretations will occur, which cannot be helped. However, purposely deceiving other posters and inciting conflict is not acceptable. 

 

 

On to the topic, I think this better suits the "Post aMoL" thread anyway. This is about Egwene in aMoL, Egwene- being dead - is not a main factor in a debate over the future of Channelers. She is of course an influence, however, this thread is dedicated to Egwene specifically.   

[probe907]

Egwene... she was one of the Aes Sedai, wasn't she?

 

 

 

All in all, Egwene was a character that annoyed me throughout most of the series.  Don't get me wrong, I could understand where she was coming from, and thought she was well-written, and I enjoyed parts of her overall story arc... I think what always irked me is that she often acted like a teenager throughout the series (which is appropriate, because she was), very convinced of her role and her power, discussing how the Dragon needs her guidance, how the Aes Sedai need her guidance and leadership... but unlike others in the story who acted similar, she never got called to task for this line of thinking.  Whereas other characters came face to face with their own limitations and were forced to say "Huh, maybe I don't have things as together as I thought," Egwene was ultimately a character that had things fall in place for her.  This doesn't mean it was easy (being made damane, being beaten in the White Tower, etc), but even in those negative situations, she found a way to turn them positive, without ever having to really learn humility.

 

Yeah, I got the same impression - and I think Egwene's arrogant refusal to ever bow down was part of the reason the authors offed her. All characters had to learn a bit of humility - even Galad! But not Egwene. She died guns blazing. She sort of had to, being Aes Sedai and all.

Don't get me wrong, Egwene was all right...

[Elan Tedronai]

mr x you're barking up the wrong tree apart from trolling like a clown as always.

 

You seem to think the aes sedai power has dimiminshed for some reason after the events of third age.

 

What you dont realise that the aes sedai actually gained instead of lost anything.

 

When rand cleansed saidin and the aes sedai and ashaman started bonding with each other it meant that the natural order of things were being restored. The aes sedai were supreme when the males and females were under a single umbrella. That process is slowly but surely coming to fruition

 

 

Not only that But egwene has set up an exhange program with the wise ones and the sea folk in addtion of recruiting the kin back to the aes sedai.

 

 

So when you think about it the aes sedai didnt lose anything. You think a force of aes sedai, ashaman, wiseones and sea folk would ever give way to seanchan then you are even more silly as per usual

 

 

 

@probe

 

you never seen egwene bowing down to someone right? i suggest you go back to book 6 and read what happens before she sets off to salidar.

 

You want humility and acknowldfement of mistakes? i suggest you read TOM and the part where she discovers a bloodied gawyn by her bedside

 

It always helps to actually read the books yknow

[Jordorac]

 

Egwene... she was one of the Aes Sedai, wasn't she?

 

 

 

All in all, Egwene was a character that annoyed me throughout most of the series.  Don't get me wrong, I could understand where she was coming from, and thought she was well-written, and I enjoyed parts of her overall story arc... I think what always irked me is that she often acted like a teenager throughout the series (which is appropriate, because she was), very convinced of her role and her power, discussing how the Dragon needs her guidance, how the Aes Sedai need her guidance and leadership... but unlike others in the story who acted similar, she never got called to task for this line of thinking.  Whereas other characters came face to face with their own limitations and were forced to say "Huh, maybe I don't have things as together as I thought," Egwene was ultimately a character that had things fall in place for her.  This doesn't mean it was easy (being made damane, being beaten in the White Tower, etc), but even in those negative situations, she found a way to turn them positive, without ever having to really learn humility.

 

Yeah, I got the same impression - and I think Egwene's arrogant refusal to ever bow down was part of the reason the authors offed her. All characters had to learn a bit of humility - even Galad! But not Egwene. She died guns blazing. She sort of had to, being Aes Sedai and all.

Don't get me wrong, Egwene was all right...

 

I really like Cirin's literary interpretation of Egwene / Gawyn as Juliette and Romeo. It explains the inevitability of their fate. But if you start thinking along this line Lan would have had to die aswell.

I was a little bit taken aback when he decided to rush at Demandred knowing full well that he would have to die while his wife was at Shayol Ghul fighting the most important battle and him dying could cause her to break.

This was selfish beyond understanding. It did not sit well with me. Lan should have learned humility aswell in order to earn the right to survive.

[XXX]

Talk of trolling is a hard one to deal with. 

 

I have removed the reference, since calling someone a troll is against the rules. 

 

However, I am concerned about Suttree's comments, that trolling was admitted to. While accusing someone of trolling is not acceptable, neither is purposely trolling, it is antagonising and creates conflicts. If this has been admitted, I can't find much sympathy when others point it out. 

 

So my suggestions: 

 

Suttree: I would not accuse people of trolling via public boards, no matter the validity. If you suspect trolling, bring it to the moderators and it will be seen to. 

 

XXX47: I don't know the history, however, if Suttree is telling the truth, I advise that you make clear which posts are to be taken seriously, and which are less serious. It is unfair on others. They are unable to accuse people on public boards of trolling, however, this means that they have no idea whether to take you seriously or ignore you completely. It is not a position any user should be put in. All posts should be able to be taken seriously unless the purpose is clearly humorous or sarcastic. Obviously, misunderstandings and misinterpretations will occur, which cannot be helped. However, purposely deceiving other posters and inciting conflict is not acceptable. 

 

 

On to the topic, I think this better suits the "Post aMoL" thread anyway. This is about Egwene in aMoL, Egwene- being dead - is not a main factor in a debate over the future of Channelers. She is of course an influence, however, this thread is dedicated to Egwene specifically.   

 

 

Not sure where I may have admitted to trolling sutree,I do not remember I typically ignore it's posts.While if you look back at it's posts then you will see that I have been called troll many times by it who I typically ignore.

 

It is my opinion that the AS is a disgusting organization which must be destroyed.And Egwene was the poster child of that very organization.I have held to these same views from the very start.

[XXX]

mr x you're barking up the wrong tree apart from trolling like a clown as always.

 

You seem to think the aes sedai power has dimiminshed for some reason after the events of third age.

 

What you dont realise that the aes sedai actually gained instead of lost anything.

 

When rand cleansed saidin and the aes sedai and ashaman started bonding with each other it meant that the natural order of things were being restored. The aes sedai were supreme when the males and females were under a single umbrella. That process is slowly but surely coming to fruition

 

 

Not only that But egwene has set up an exhange program with the wise ones and the sea folk in addtion of recruiting the kin back to the aes sedai.

 

 

So when you think about it the aes sedai didnt lose anything. You think a force of aes sedai, ashaman, wiseones and sea folk would ever give way to seanchan then you are even more silly as per usual

 

 

 

@probe

 

you never seen egwene bowing down to someone right? i suggest you go back to book 6 and read what happens before she sets off to salidar.

 

You want humility and acknowldfement of mistakes? i suggest you read TOM and the part where she discovers a bloodied gawyn by her bedside

 

It always helps to actually read the books yknow

 

I don;t care if the power of the WT increases but the power of the white tower as an exclusively female organization has decreased.

Edited January 20, 2013 by XXX47

[sleepinghour]

I really like Cirin's literary interpretation of Egwene / Gawyn as Juliette and Romeo. It explains the inevitability of their fate. But if you start thinking along this line Lan would have had to die aswell.

I was a little bit taken aback when he decided to rush at Demandred knowing full well that he would have to die while his wife was at Shayol Ghul fighting the most important battle and him dying could cause her to break.

This was selfish beyond understanding. It did not sit well with me. Lan should have learned humility aswell in order to earn the right to survive.

 

The same could be said of Elayne and Aviendha; they also put themselves at risk. Lan entered the battle long before he knew Nynaeve would go to SG with Rand. He wouldn't have learned any lesson from dying, and it was always clear that he wouldn't die as people in WoT usually have their wishes/expectations thwarted. Those who dislike nobles or Aes Sedai (Mat, Thom, Juilin, Logain) end up marrying them. Those who set out to sacrifice themselves (Rand, Lan, Faile) survive against all odds. Those who declare they'll live centuries (as Egwene did to Tuon), don't.

[mokaloka99]

My opinion might not matter here because I don't spend hundreds of days of my life posting on here and earning a high post count. However, I would like to say i strongly agree with XXX.

 

The white tower has always been a running joke for me throughout the series. Sometimes I swear, RJ was really painting them with strong sarcasm and the joke was on the majority of you for believing it. 

 

Take the One Power away from the Aes Sedai and what do they have? They seem to have some education and years of experience because of their long lives. (It is called Wisdom.) Well let us look at the 14 books. I think it is safe to say that the Aes Sedai showing Wisdom in this series rarely happens. There are a few Aes Sedai that have a remarkable amount of wisdom but the majority act like power hungry idiots.

 

So how does this make them different from the royalty and educated of each and every other country state? I imagine royalty are educated from child to adult and then some. So why all this bowing and scraping to the WT? 

 

I think at some point in time the bowing, scraping, kissing of rings was out of respect for them and wasnt expected of the common people but was appreciated when that respect was shown. The WT seemed to have earned it at some point and might even deserved it. The way the Aes Sedai and WT are shown throughout all of these books shows me the opposite of this. They rarely do anything to deserve these honors and do nothing but EXPECT it at every turn. On top of that if looks and emotions could talk, it would seem like they enjoy watching rulers bow and scrape to them.

 

So Egwene thinks the rulers should bow and kiss her ring? What has the WT done in her life time to make her think they have earned that? Why doesnt she focus on earning their respect instead of beating them down with it. Maybe in her mind they should bow down because they are Aes Sedai and the ultimate power in the land. Well let me ask this: What would be the Aes Sedai and Egwene's opinion if Rand was making all the rulers bow to him and kiss his hand or his sword? You know what their responses would be... Rand has done more for RandLand Pre Book 14 then the WT has ever done in this AGE. He deserves it. 

 

Bah i can rant about the Aes Sedai and Egwene for Months... I have a love hate relationship with WoT. I love Wot without the WT and hate reading about Egwene and the majority of the Aes Sedai morons.

 

In fact, i use a service where you send in your books and they chop them up and copy every page and then send you the completed PDF in return. Much better than buying ebooks because if you read the fine print you dont actually "Own" the ebook. Anyways i have all 13 of 14 books in PDF Format and will be adding the 14th one soon. What this allows me to do is search for "Egwene" and i have purposely deleted every chapter with her POV. It makes re-reads SO MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE!

She is the worse character in the series and again i can't reiterate this enough, I am so pleased she died in amol!

[Elan Tedronai]

^^^

 

indeed what have they done? nothing. without the aes sedai, tamra and gitara in particular the dragon reborn would have been in the hands of blak ajah.

 

But hey whatever you say :p

 

 

 

 

mr x you're barking up the wrong tree apart from trolling like a clown as always.

 

You seem to think the aes sedai power has dimiminshed for some reason after the events of third age.

 

What you dont realise that the aes sedai actually gained instead of lost anything.

 

When rand cleansed saidin and the aes sedai and ashaman started bonding with each other it meant that the natural order of things were being restored. The aes sedai were supreme when the males and females were under a single umbrella. That process is slowly but surely coming to fruition

 

 

Not only that But egwene has set up an exhange program with the wise ones and the sea folk in addtion of recruiting the kin back to the aes sedai.

 

 

So when you think about it the aes sedai didnt lose anything. You think a force of aes sedai, ashaman, wiseones and sea folk would ever give way to seanchan then you are even more silly as per usual

 

 

 

@probe

 

you never seen egwene bowing down to someone right? i suggest you go back to book 6 and read what happens before she sets off to salidar.

 

You want humility and acknowldfement of mistakes? i suggest you read TOM and the part where she discovers a bloodied gawyn by her bedside

 

It always helps to actually read the books yknow

 

I don;t care if the power of the WT increases but the power of the white tower as an exclusively female organization has decreased.

 

 

exclusive?

 

its has ceased to become a female exclusive organisation once male and female channellers bonded

Edited January 21, 2013 by Barid Bel Medar
inappropriate

[Suttree]

My opinion might not matter here because I don't spend hundreds of days of my life posting on here and earning a high post count. However, I would like to say i strongly agree with XXX.

 

The white tower has always been a running joke for me throughout the series. Sometimes I swear, RJ was really painting them with strong sarcasm and the joke was on the majority of you for believing it. 

 

Take the One Power away from the Aes Sedai and what do they have? They seem to have some education and years of experience because of their long lives. (It is called Wisdom.) Well let us look at the 14 books. I think it is safe to say that the Aes Sedai showing Wisdom in this series rarely happens. There are a few Aes Sedai that have a remarkable amount of wisdom but the majority act like power hungry idiots.

 

So how does this make them different from the royalty and educated of each and every other country state? I imagine royalty are educated from child to adult and then some. So why all this bowing and scraping to the WT? 

 

I think at some point in time the bowing, scraping, kissing of rings was out of respect for them and wasnt expected of the common people but was appreciated when that respect was shown. The WT seemed to have earned it at some point and might even deserved it. The way the Aes Sedai and WT are shown throughout all of these books shows me the opposite of this. They rarely do anything to deserve these honors and do nothing but EXPECT it at every turn.

Welcome to the forums Mol! No worries about post count, people don't get hung up on those things around here. That said you seem to have some fairly large misconceptions here. Make no mistake the WT is a failed institution that needs to change their ways. In fact Egwene called them fools and vowed that they would do so. She has already instituted a number of reforms in that direction.

 

As for respect they have most certainly earned. You have to keep in mind that AS are much like any other group, there are some great ones and some terrible ones, but mostly they are just average every day sisters out working for good in the world. At any given time over a 1/3 of the WT is out in the world working. Greens are patrolling the blight, Yellows use their eyes and ears network to search out and go heal outbreaks of disease and the like, Blues have their causes, Greys have forged treaties averting numerous wars and propping up thrones. They have been the major force holding the shadow at bay for the last 3,000 years. People can't forget that they are the reason the world even remembers the DO exists.

 

 

'TFOH 15, What Can Be Learned From Dreams' said:

Moiraine sighed, a soft sound. "Do you expect me to be happy that the White Tower has split apart? I am Aes Sedai, Egwene. I gave my life to the Tower long before I ever suspected the Dragon would be Reborn in my lifetime. The Tower has been a bulwark against the Shadow for three thousand years. It has guided rulers to wise decisions, stopped wars before they began, halted wars that did begin. That humankind even remembers that the Dark One waits to escape, that the Last Battle will come, is because of the Tower. The Tower, whole and united. I could almost wish that every sister had sworn to Elaida, whatever happened to Siuan."

 

As for what the average sister gets up to we have this from TGS:

 

The sitting room was like a museum dedicated to one person's journeys. An Altaran marriage knife, set with four twinkling rubies, hung beside a small Cairhienin banner and a Shienar sword. Each had a small plaque explaining its significance. The marriage knife, for instance, had been presented to Meidani for her help in settling a dispute between two houses over the death of a particularly important landowner. His wife had given her the knife as a token of thanks.

 

Who would have thought that the cowering woman of the dinner a few weeks back would have such a proud collection? The rug itself was labeled, the gift of a trader who had purchased it on the closed docks of Shara, then bestowed it on Meidani in thanks for Healing his daughter. It was of strange design, woven from what seemed to be tiny, dyed reeds, with tufts of an exotic gray fur trimming the edges. The pattern depicted exotic creatures with long necks.

 

To be clear Egwene has imbibed a bit too much of the AS kool aid for my liking but the WT has certainly earned it's respect. RJ was obviously trying to show us how the WT has gone astray. The extreme points you make above however are not supported by the text.

[BlueSun]

^^^

 

indeed what have they done? nothing. without the aes sedai, tamra and gitara in particular the dragon reborn would have been in the hands of blak ajah.

 

But hey whatever you say :p

Which from another angle, proves the point that the WT was wretched: Upon Gitara's Fortelljng, there was NOONE they could trust, because of the Black Ajah's seamless intergration into the WT and the extreme prejudice against male channelers.

 

I think the rhetorical question of "what have they done?" is importan. Without a doubt they provided authority and stability throughout the pre-industrial 3rd Age; without question they preserved memory of the DarkOne and held shit together until the Dragon was reborn...... But they were widely viewed as dangerous, manipulative and tricksome, which I personally don't find to be admirable qualities. Heck, even backwater hicks from the Two Rivers knew watch themselves around AS; it wasnt a matter of showing respect, either.

 

the 2nd Age As were True Sevents, but the 3rdAge were definately not. There is no evidence they helped grow food and crops (only personal gardens) or orchards proliferate. There's is little mention of them hanging out with common people, and none about them teaching children history or philosophy Did they make Power-forged tools for farmers and craftsmen? Transcribe and distribute books and knowledge? ..... I dunno.... Just idle thought that have nothing to do with Egwene.......

,

[Suttree]

 

^^^

 

indeed what have they done? nothing. without the aes sedai, tamra and gitara in particular the dragon reborn would have been in the hands of blak ajah.

 

But hey whatever you say :p

Which from another angle, proves the point that the WT was wretched: Upon Gitara's Fortelljng, there was NOONE they could trust, because of the Black Ajah's seamless intergration into the WT and the extreme prejudice against male channelers.

It is not the WT's fault that a forsaken that they didn't even know was loose targeted them and created the BA. You can not hold them responsible for the actions of the BA. Siuan and Moiraine were forced underground precisely because they didn't know who was a BA member and they knew the BA was killing the other AS looking for the DR.

 

As for what have they done the question was already answered above. At any given time a 1/3 of the WT is out in the world working with common people. Rescuing kidnapped captives from the blight, healing, settling disputes, averting wars etc. They are absolutely a fallen institution and certainly need to change to get back closer to their true purpose but they are hardly as bad as some claim. Saving the world a few times over does give you some leeway after all.

[BlueSun]

The Black Ajah had existed for centuries. The corruption by the time of Gitara was systemic and institutional, the results of which we saw for 13 novels.

 

If 1/3 were out in the world, 2/3 never left Tar Valon.... Not really a good ratio. Without question, the 33% were out doing all that stuff you rightly cite.....yet over and over we are told the Aes Sedai reasons are not what you think they are"; "don't let an AesSedai tie a string around you"; "manipulating events"; etc......ALLrulers stepped carefully around them, and EVERYONE treated them with the sort of trepidation given to a Mafia member...... This perception/reaction is repeated time after time, in book after book.

[Suttree]

The Black Ajah had existed for centuries. The corruption by the time of Gitara was systemic and institutional, the results of which we saw for 13 novels.

 

If 1/3 were out in the world, 2/3 never left Tar Valon.... Not really a good ratio. Without question, the 33% were out doing all that stuff you rightly cite.....yet over and over we are told the Aes Sedai reasons are not what you think they are"; "don't let an AesSedai tie a string around you"; "manipulating events"; etc......ALLrulers stepped carefully around them, and EVERYONE treated them with the sort of trepidation given to a Mafia member...... This perception/reaction is repeated time after time, in book after book.

 

Wait are you trying to claim Ishy didn't start the BA? They were targeted by the shadow. The BA was started centuries ago by Ishy during one of the intervals that he was loose from the bore. The WT was the premiere power and as such Ishy made it a mission to infiltrate from the inside. AS can not be held accountable for his actions.

 

As for the rest you are looking at it all wrong. That 1/3 rotates in and out, virtually every sisters room we see has mementos from a long life lived out working in the world. It is not solely the same 1/3 out working. You are taking  the rest of those things far too literally, much of that is merely rumors and the like. Certain countries do view them with trepidation while in others they are openly welcomed and treated far differently.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Suttree