Not In The Book Discussion (Full Spoilers)

[Luckers]

For discussion of elements of any sub plots or plot elements that the book did not cover, or answer.

[fionwe1987]

This is pretty huge, surprisingly.

 

How did Alanna get captured?

 

What was in Verin's letter to Galad? To Alanna?

 

Will add more as I think of them.

[KakitaOCU]

What if Alanna is Black?  Verin's letter was "I know what you are, I'm about to destroy the Black Ajah, repent and serve the light."  And so she freaked and ran north to tell the DO and they decided to use her? 

 

Completely random thought, I know.

 

No idea on Galad's letter, maybe that he's Rand's half brother?

[Amandera]

Gawyn tells Galad about it though, and Galad is pretty surprised. So that's not it. I'm really surprised about Verin. Brandon and Maria gave us a lot of RAFOs about her but I honestly can't remember a single thing about her in the books. Letters are still a mystery, except Rand's which was probably about Weiramon and maybe Anaiyella and Mattin Stepaneos of course.

 

And, what the hell is Nakomi? I guess the white haired woman with Aiel clothing was her, but really they could have given more. My only guess is she is Verin and a Hero of the Horn, but I am as far from certain as you can get.

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

[Luckers]

And, what the hell is Nakomi?

 

She was designed and enacted to be theory fodder. Nothing more.

[fionwe1987]

 

And, what the hell is Nakomi?

 

She was designed and enacted to be theory fodder. Nothing more.

Is this your theory, or a fact you know?

[Amandera]

Well, she came with no foreshadowing whatsoever and went with no explanation whatsoever. So, it's pretty much obvious that's what she is. But she can still have some sort of explanation. At this point I am even willing to accept that Creator took pity on Rand's desire for peace or she was a manifestation of that desire, against all reason. I want something to explain her, however weak.

[fyodor]

I had really been hoping to get a clearer understanding of Taim's timeline. I believe Demandred states that he recruited him, which means that Taim didn't become a Darkfriend until Demandred was released in TGH.  Does this mean that he was a "real" false dragon who was recruited after the fact?

 

So what was the deal with all of Taim's foresakenisms (so-called aiel, rengegade aiel, etc)? He adopted AOL speech patterns in a year?

[fyodor]

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

[Falagar]

Alanna was probably captured by Moridin. He used True Power, that's why none felt any channeling when she disappeared. THE VOICE was most likely DO all along

[Alleluia_Cone]

I think we should consider the possibility that the reason so much went unanswered is because the author died before filling in all the holes and Sanderson eschewed inventing his own explanations.

[Terez]

 

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

[fyodor]

 

 

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I understand that Rand recognizes it as the Voice from the EotW and that RJ has strongly implied that this is the Creator.

 

I was just hoping for a little more screentime for the Creator, some additional interaction, explanation, etc. It seems like Sanderson was just looking for a place to insert the Creator's voice again. 

[Terez]

 

 

 

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I understand that Rand recognizes it as the Voice from the EotW and that RJ has strongly implied that this is the Creator.

 

RJ never implies it's the Creator. The Creator does not interfere. Rand steps into Shayol Ghul, hears the VOICE, and recognizes it from TEOTW. It's the Dark One.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I understand that Rand recognizes it as the Voice from the EotW and that RJ has strongly implied that this is the Creator.

 

RJ never implies it's the Creator. The Creator does not interfere. Rand steps into Shayol Ghul, hears the VOICE, and recognizes it from TEOTW. It's the Dark One.

Of course its not the Dark One. Rand says he had been expecting it, even hoping for it. And he says, "Thank You". Most importantly, he says the words were spoken "from one soul to to another". 

 

Why would Rand hope for the Dark One's voice? Why would he thank it? And why would he feel it had a soul?

 

And there's this. In the very next Rand PoV, we get this:

 

 

As Rand entered the caver, something changed in the air. The Dark One only now sensed his arrival, and was surprised by it. The dagger had done its job

 

 

Why would the DO feel surprise? 

 

Unless you think all this is an elaborate hoax to draw Rand in, then pretend surprise. But I see no purpose, in that. Its not like Rand was planning to turn away, without the voice. And I don't think he'd have been oblivious if the DO slipped through the dagger's protection and communicated with him.

[fyodor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I understand that Rand recognizes it as the Voice from the EotW and that RJ has strongly implied that this is the Creator.

 

RJ never implies it's the Creator. The Creator does not interfere. Rand steps into Shayol Ghul, hears the VOICE, and recognizes it from TEOTW. It's the Dark One.

 

The VOICE also doesn't "interfere." The VOICE specifically notes that it *doesn't* interfere.

 

"The wind died. The screams died. The earth was still. Dust and smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him. "The Light blind you, Ba'alzamon! This has to end!"

 

IT IS NOT HERE.

 

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

 

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

 

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing

smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each standing alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

 

NOT HERE."

 

Why would the Dark One call Rand the Chosen One or advise him on where to find Ishmael?

 

Also, the Dark One isn't able to talk to anyone outside of Shayol Ghul at that stage. In ToM Graendal is surprised that the seals have weakened enough for Moridin to communicate with the DO outside of Shayol Ghul.

 

Rand notes that he was hoping to hear from the VOICE again. Why would he be hoping to hear from the Dark One before going in? 

 

Rand is also uncertain if he's going in at the right time and is reassured by the VOICE's comment that it's time. Why would he trust the Dark One's advice?

[KakitaOCU]

Fyodor, How about because the DO's master plan needs Rand to win for a while and then corrupt and fall to despair, of course he'd aim him right at Ishamael to continue the conflict?

 

Fionwe, he has that Dagger that Aviendha said would make the wielder invisible to the Shadow.  As for thanking the voice, maybe by confirming it for what it was Rand can let that little bit of confusion go and get on with what he's doing.

[fionwe1987]

Fionwe, he has that Dagger that Aviendha said would make the wielder invisible to the Shadow.  As for thanking the voice, maybe by confirming it for what it was Rand can let that little bit of confusion go and get on with what he's doing.

I know he has the dagger. And if the DO was able to breach it, Rand would have known. As for the other part of the sentence, it makes no sense. That is not what Rand's PoV indicates. He would never all the DO to "clear" his confusion. He'd suspect a trap.

[tedman]

I registered to say, this seems pretty unambiguous. In fact of all the things that have bothered people for the longest time, this seems to be the clearest "If not A, then must be B" that has been cleared up.

 

I'm kind of surprised people think its the creator\not the DO even though the DO spends the rest of the book hailing lord capslock, might need to read more slowly the second time through or something

[fionwe1987]

I registered to say, this seems pretty unambiguous. In fact of all the things that have bothered people for the longest time, this seems to be the clearest "If not A, then must be B" that has been cleared up.

 

I'm kind of surprised people think its the creator\not the DO even though the DO spends the rest of the book hailing lord capslock, might need to read more slowly the second time through or something

By that rule, Rand is also the Dark One!

[Amandera]

 

THE VOICE also went unexplained, which was somewhat expected. Would've been nice to know though.

 

I assumed that it was the Creator telling Rand to do his thing. Still, much less than I was hoping for.

 

That was explained. If you have the book, reread page 431.

I thought that meant he'd heard it as LTT, but you're right. It makes more sense this way. So the VOICE is DO.

[Cherubin]

Ok, what happened with Mat, there seems to be a scene missing in my book

(1) he wins the last battle,

(2) SG

(3) meets the Seanchan 'Where have you been' fireworks (hated this scene...)

End

 

(3) sounded like there was something (a meeting with Tuon) between (2) and (3)

[Isabel]

The voice is clearly not the DO, as Fionwe says. It's the Creator. I am not going to post quotes, but read page 431 and 453. It's clearly not the DO.

 

And Cherubin: why did you hate the last scene of Mat?

[Cherubin]

@Isabel: She: "I am pregnant and can kill you now. " He: "Ok, do you like to play dice?"

 

There are 100 better last words I could have imagined for Mat. Karede could have said what Tuon (the Empire is pregnant, I can kill you now) said and it would be funny. Tuon could have said "I am fond of you" as a romantic ending. Because of the fireworks and burial pyre they could do an Endor Star Wars reference citation. Whatever. The last sentence by Mat is just off.

But this more belongs to a different topic.

[Isabel]

I think and hope that last sentence was by RJ. Why would tuon and Mat have a romantic ending? Rj intended to write about their adventures, so it wouldn't make sense for tat.