How do the Seanchan create the O'dam?

[udpaco13]

From what we have seen the ability to create Ter'Angreal was just recently rediscovered by Elayne, but the Seanchan have been mass producing these O'Dam for a very long time. More than that, they received a new male O'Dam and they were able to copy that one pretty quickly (not that we know how many were made).

 

How do they do it? Did Ishy setup an O'Dam factory while we was screwing up Seanchan?

 

Do they have collared ladies that have already rediscovered the art of making Ter'Angreal?

 

They also have the Blood-knives rings....where are they getting these from?

 

Do you think they could make Angreal as well but just have no use for them because Angreal do not work with the O'Dam (at least I think i read somewhere that they wont work while with the O'dam, i may be wrong)

 

It just seems like Elayne learning she can make these object of power is pointless because everyone across the sea has been doing it for hundreds of years. Thoughts?

[Wool-headed lummox]

How did the a'dam turn into O'Dam?

[Suttree]

The a'dam is the only thing they know how to make and the skill has been passed down over a very long period of time. They have not done any inventing into other avenues of op items.

 

Interview: Nov 15th, 2009

TGS Signing Report - Freelancer (Paraphrased)

Question

 

Mr. Jordan stated that the Seanchan only know how to make one kind of ter'angreal. Then there are the Bloodknives' rings. Is this a departure from Jordan's notes, or a discrepancy in a past answer?

Brandon Sanderson

 

Neither. The Seanchan only know how to make a'dam.

[udpaco13]

How did the a'dam turn into O'Dam?

 

Because O'Damn these would suck to have on :)

[udpaco13]

The a'dam is the only thing they know how to make and the skill has been passed down over a very long period of time. They have not done any inventing into other avenues of op items.

 

Interview: Nov 15th, 2009

TGS Signing Report - Freelancer (Paraphrased)

Question

 

Mr. Jordan stated that the Seanchan only know how to make one kind of ter'angreal. Then there are the Bloodknives' rings. Is this a departure from Jordan's notes, or a discrepancy in a past answer?

Brandon Sanderson

 

Neither. The Seanchan only know how to make a'dam.

 

So how do they make them? Do they have a device the produces them like we have seen for the warder cloaks or do they have collared ladies knocking them out?

 

How did they make the Male a'dam? Did they just throw it in the mold and hope all comes out right?

[Suttree]

How did they make the Male a'dam? Did they just throw it in the mold and hope all comes out right?

 

Well the Domination Band isn't really a male a'dam, there are a number of differences between the two. I think it was Semi that had the copies made, not the Seanchan. As for the a'dam I believe it is the damane that make them and it most likely is a prized skill.

[udpaco13]

How did they make the Male a'dam? Did they just throw it in the mold and hope all comes out right?

 

Well the Domination Band isn't really a male a'dam, there are a number of differences between the two. I think it was Semi that had the copies made, not the Seanchan. As for the a'dam I believe it is the damane that make them and it most likely is a prized skill.

 

I like the explanation that Semi had a hand in copying the Domination band, but do we have any proof that any of the forsaken can make/reproduce Ter'Angreal? They have been running around looking for Vacoles (sp) and other caches of AoL equipment. I am pretty sure none can create Angreal judging by how badly they have been fighting to get even weak ones.

 

They cant even seem to create the Glow Lights and other "simple" things they used in the AoL. It seems pretty far fetched to think that they only know how to reproduce what they have in front of them. I would think if you were able to reproduce the Domination Band, you should be able to reproduce lights and shocklances and whatever the flying cars were called, but they have made nothing yet that we know of.

[Suttree]

I would think if you were able to reproduce the Domination Band, you should be able to reproduce lights and shocklances and whatever the flying cars were called, but they have made nothing yet that we know of.

 

Big difference between a band and those other things. Just because you have the knowledge for lights, jo cars, and shocklances doesn't mean you have the technology/tools to create them

[Rubberninja]

When Egwene is first caught by the seanchan in TGH, the sul'dam comments something along the lines of "perhaps you will be one of those able to make a'dam".. I've always taken that as an indication that the damane made the a'dam. The original was made by an aes sedai for arthur hawkwing, and she herself ended up as the first damane. I assume she was made to teach other damane how to reproduce the a'dam before she died.

 

A lot of maybes but the logic's there.

Also, just because Elayne discovers she can copy ter'angreal, doesn't mean someone on the other side of the world doesnt know how to :)

[TristanWebb]

Didn't RJ say that the only ter'angreal the Seanchan can make is the a'dam? I thought it came up in a conversation about bloodrings.

[Sharaman]

The A'dam is made by damane as per the TGH.

The Bloodrings are something the Seanchan have a store of -possibly leftovers from the Breaking or the War of Power ? They seem like the kind of thing the GloD's followers would have made for fanatical shock troops.

One would have to assume that Semirhage has some skill at copying ter'angreal. She couldn't really have instructed damane/ sul'dam to copy the Domination Bands without the secret getting out.

She also found saidin-users to experiment with, given that she knew how they worked. Maybe the chaps in the Blight or rogue Ashaman?

It's also possible that she was the only one of the 13 trapped Chosen to have this skill.

[Chaotic222]

I think that maybe the Aes Sedai on the Seanchan continent might have remembered more AoL tricks than their White Tower counterparts. An Aes Sedai there created the a'dam, and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine they knew how to create other ter'angreal. From what little is known about the Seanchan continent Aes Sedai, I wouldn't put it past them to create something like the bloodrings, either, as a tool to assassinate political rivals or the like.

 

Either way, those skills would have been long lost by the current year, so I doubt the Seanchan had anything to do with copying the male a'dam.

[Sharaman]

I think that maybe the Aes Sedai on the Seanchan continent might have remembered more AoL tricks than their White Tower counterparts. An Aes Sedai there created the a'dam, and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine they knew how to create other ter'angreal. From what little is known about the Seanchan continent Aes Sedai, I wouldn't put it past them to create something like the bloodrings, either, as a tool to assassinate political rivals or the like.

 

Either way, those skills would have been long lost by the current year, so I doubt the Seanchan had anything to do with copying the male a'dam.

 

It hasn't been so long in terms of channeler lifetimes. Luthair went to Senchan about 1000 years ago. If average channelers live 300-400 years sans oath rod - the Kin are good examples, that's the equivalent of 120 years in non-channelr terms. But we have canon that the Seanchan don't know how to make anything apart from female a'dams.

Your only other reasonable option is Semirhage did the copying of the Domination Band. She might not be especially skilled at it but maybe it was taught in AoL and she had sufficient skill.

[Orderofolde]

How did they make the Male a'dam? Did they just throw it in the mold and hope all comes out right?

 

Well the Domination Band isn't really a male a'dam, there are a number of differences between the two. I think it was Semi that had the copies made, not the Seanchan. As for the a'dam I believe it is the damane that make them and it most likely is a prized skill.

 

I like the explanation that Semi had a hand in copying the Domination band, but do we have any proof that any of the forsaken can make/reproduce Ter'Angreal? They have been running around looking for Vacoles (sp) and other caches of AoL equipment. I am pretty sure none can create Angreal judging by how badly they have been fighting to get even weak ones.

 

They cant even seem to create the Glow Lights and other "simple" things they used in the AoL. It seems pretty far fetched to think that they only know how to reproduce what they have in front of them. I would think if you were able to reproduce the Domination Band, you should be able to reproduce lights and shocklances and whatever the flying cars were called, but they have made nothing yet that we know of.

I am fairly certain that we have a POV from one of the Forsaken (Asmo, or Moggy with the girls perhaps?) that none of the Forsaken have the knowledge of making Ter'angreal, Angreal, or Sa'angreal, and only have a very basic understanding of how they were made, almost as if they had never bothered to pay attention because they were so focused in other areas and during the time it was commonplace. Asmo had his music, Semirhague had her mind healing/torture, Moggy had her shadows, Lanfear her research, Graendal her pleasures, Mesaana her administration, Sammael his hatred of LTT, Demandred his envy for he was almost as good as LTT, Aginor his DNA splicing, Ishy his philosophy, Rahvin his thirst for power, Balthamel his history, Ba'lal his manipulation and envy of his friend LTT. It was no different for them than for us knowing how an ipod is made. We have an idea, but when it comes down to it we really known know how to make one.

[Morden]

I think A'dam might actually be one of the most simple Ter'angrael to make, Elayne seems to find it easy because it is essentially a link, that might be the key difference. As for the Male a'dam... who knows maybe Taim or an Asha'man helped?

[Suttree]

I think A'dam might actually be one of the most simple Ter'angrael to make, Elayne seems to find it easy because it is essentially a link, that might be the key difference.

 

Notice how quickly she modifed it as well. Something the Seanchan seem incapable of doing.

[Morden]

I think A'dam might actually be one of the most simple Ter'angrael to make, Elayne seems to find it easy because it is essentially a link, that might be the key difference.

 

Notice how quickly she modifed it as well. Something the Seanchan seem incapable of doing.

 

Yeah very true, though they see them like dog leashes so they dont really feel they need changing, not mention Elayne actually studies them rather than copying a template. Think its similar in a way to Elayne teaching other sisters to make Ter'angrael, most of them try but cannot do it and even if they could the chances are they would need to be taught for each different Ter'angrael type.

 

Also regarding jo cars, shocklances etc. In the AoL they had the waylines(sp? Suttree or someone more knowledgable will know more details) basically a network of the One Power which literally flooded the world with energy to power most of their toys. so even Ter'angrael that required channeling would work for someone who could not.

[Rubberninja]

Also regarding jo cars, shocklances etc. In the AoL they had the waylines(sp? Suttree or someone more knowledgable will know more details) basically a network of the One Power which literally flooded the world with energy to power most of their toys. so even Ter'angrael that required channeling would work for someone who could not.

Kinda like wireless electricity

[Suttree]

Also regarding jo cars, shocklances etc. In the AoL they had the waylines(sp? Suttree or someone more knowledgable will know more details) basically a network of the One Power which literally flooded the world with energy to power most of their toys. so even Ter'angrael that required channeling would work for someone who could not.

 

Yes they had what were called "standing flows". It allowed some common ter'angreal to be used by even non channelers.

[dhammett11]

I wouldn't bet against Moridin knowing something of ter'angreal making. He could have even been the one who duplicated the Domination Band for Semirhage because he did order her to capture Rand with the thing. And Lanfear was the equivalent of a physicist/engineer at CERN so who knows what she's capable of. Drop a modern day physicist in the dark ages and he could reproduce a good bit of pre-1900 technology from scratch, especially if he had a modicum of basic chemistry knowledge. It just seems like a poor bet to think she and Moridin together would be incapable reproducing some of the ter'angrealology of their day, given a little time.

[Rubberninja]

ter'angrealology™

[udpaco13]

It still seems pretty odd that they can only make a single TerAngreal. You would think someone would have kept pushing one of the girls who could make an a'dam to see what else they could do with it. It seems like if they knew this was a rare talent they would have tried to expand on it. This must either be an oversight or something that is not explained. I know if I had a dog that could produce extremely valuable tool, I would see what else the dog could do.

[Sid]

But encouraging a damane to be creative would be too much like treating them as a person and not a damane. That's part of the training, to eliminate them thinking for themselves. People in Seanchan fear the OP in the hands of those not properly under control, so letting a damane experiment isn't really in the cards. They cannot channel without a sul'dam using the bracelet, and the sul'dam won't allow them to channel unapproved weaves when they are using the bracelet. So, they can't do things with the one power that neither they nor their sul'dam know how to do unless they're shown how. It all began with a single channeler inventing the a'dam, she was leashed by it, then presumably forced to teach others how to make more. If she didn't have any knowledge of how to make anything other than the a'dam, then that was the end of new ter'angreal development in Seanchan.

[Black Waltz]

There's an intrinsic fear of the OP amongst the Seanchan as mentioned by Sid, this coupled with the inability to channel anything but what they understand and know is going to be against ter'angreal development. The only time I see the Seanchan changing their use of the damane is when a new talent is revealed that does not require a weave, i.e. viewing ta'varen for example. Also even if Deain knew how to create ter'angreal other than the a'dam it is unlikely that they would have been trusted due to the inherent distrust of the AS/OP that the Seanchan had from both the corruption of Hawkwing (and by proxy his son) and the actions of those calling themselves AS on the Seanchan continent. Even the use in extracting ores is linked to the natural talents of damane strong in Earth and was probably known to be possible prior to Luthair's arrival on Seanchan.

[dhammett11]

It still seems pretty odd that they can only make a single TerAngreal. You would think someone would have kept pushing one of the girls who could make an a'dam to see what else they could do with it. It seems like if they knew this was a rare talent they would have tried to expand on it. This must either be an oversight or something that is not explained. I know if I had a dog that could produce extremely valuable tool, I would see what else the dog could do.

 

You tend not to want to encourage your slaves to creative/inquisitive/do anything empowering.