Thisguy's Topic on Brandon's Work

[ArveduiEreinion]

That is a much better way of putting it, thanks Luckers. Honestly, I will admit that I'm reading for plot gratification at this point and the last chapter (I really hope it was written by RJ.) I'm hoping for moving stuff from the big guy.

[ArveduiEreinion]

Yes, I'm serious but are you? I'm not saying this to be mean but do you know what an "internal inflection" is? Perhaps you meant a different term?

I was serious, I just have this thing where sometimes what I mean to type and what actually gets typed are two different things (with quite odd results). I meant reflection, not inflection.

 

No worries, man. I do that too sometimes. Listen, I'm also serious and I would direct you to the post I just made with examples. I have no problem when words are italicized to indicate internal dialogue (internal reflection.) What gets me is the overuse of italicized words for emphasis. Maybe this speaks to certain reader's complaints about subtlety, etc.

[yoniy0]

Yep, makes perfect sense. I hadn't noticed all of these cases.

[dwn]

Yes, I'm serious but are you? I'm not saying this to be mean but do you know what an "internal inflection" is? Perhaps you meant a different term?

I was serious, I just have this thing where sometimes what I mean to type and what actually gets typed are two different things (with quite odd results). I meant reflection, not inflection.

 

No worries, man. I do that too sometimes. Listen, I'm also serious and I would direct you to the post I just made with examples. I have no problem when words are italicized to indicate internal dialogue (internal reflection.) What gets me is the overuse of italicized words for emphasis. Maybe this speaks to certain reader's complaints about subtlety, etc.

 

The italics are actually kind of like the exclamation point. Its sole purpose is for emphasis yet appears very seldom in good writing: only for occasions where a real exclamation is made. Everywhere else makes do with a period and appropriate wording or context to convey the extra weight.

 

-- dwn

[TootThatHorn]

Yes, I'm serious but are you? I'm not saying this to be mean but do you know what an "internal inflection" is? Perhaps you meant a different term?

I was serious, I just have this thing where sometimes what I mean to type and what actually gets typed are two different things (with quite odd results). I meant reflection, not inflection.

 

No worries, man. I do that too sometimes. Listen, I'm also serious and I would direct you to the post I just made with examples. I have no problem when words are italicized to indicate internal dialogue (internal reflection.) What gets me is the overuse of italicized words for emphasis. Maybe this speaks to certain reader's complaints about subtlety, etc.

 

The italics are actually kind of like the exclamation point. Its sole purpose is for emphasis yet appears very seldom in good writing: only for occasions where a real exclamation is made. Everywhere else makes do with a period and appropriate wording or context to convey the extra weight.

 

-- dwn

 

What I was thinking; I could see someone not liking it, but to me it breaks up the monotony of a sentence and adds emphasis to a particular word, emotionally changing the entirety of what's being said. I emphasize that word in my head and it completely changes the tone in a good way. It's an effective literary tool that I like; I picture someone drawing their fist to palm upon that word to strike it home. Point being, for me it works, others it may not and that is the price you pay for a large audience.

[Luckers]

Indeed, figuring out what defines 'good writing' is always a tricky proposition, for all that I agree with dwn in this matter.

[ArveduiEreinion]

Indeed, figuring out what defines 'good writing' is always a tricky proposition, for all that I agree with dwn in this matter.

 

No, figuring out what makes "the best" (choose your superlative) writing is difficult. Perhaps we could say it is difficult to distinguish what separates "good" writing from "great" writing. It is far less difficult to identify poor writing, overuse of particular conventions, etc.

 

I understand that people will say "well, I liked it." I'm not picking on anyone in particular but this thread is replete with similar examples. That's fine, but it's hardly a valid argument. Indeed, a statement like that seeks to avoid argument.

[Luckers]

Actually, to be clear, I think it bad writing. Indeed, possibly even terrible writing. I was simply wishing to acknowledge that such assessments can be subject to debate.

[Centauri25]

I have read the DM since it's inception, but have not posted previously. I appreciate the efforts by those who have kept the site going, including moderators here. That said, I am surprised by the outright vitriol towards Brandon posted in this discussion topic and others.

 

In my opinion, RJ was a better writer in general than Brandon, and always will be. That said, I do not think RJ would have finished the story if he had another 10 or even 20 years. The time span of each book had gotten so short by 8-9-10 that it would have taken 3 books just to get through the tower of ghenji (sp?) sequence. I am sure I do not speak just for myself when I say that there were whole chapters that were a slog to read through - a chore just to get to the end (as I tug my braid). There also seems to be an accepted certitude that RJ had a complete plan in place, and would have wrapped up all loose ends without anything being dropped, or retcon-ed. I trust that the ultimate ending has always been known, but there is little in the last 5 books to convince me he would ever get there. All we had was the unfulfilled promise of a dying man. I have re-read the first 4 books and enjoyed them, read bits of 5 & 6, but have a hard time past that. I also have a hard time recommending others get into the series because of that lull.

 

 

I think Brandon is catching some heat for "missteps" that were possibly unavoidable given where he started from and where he was going to. That and the fact he is not Jordan, not as good of a writer or the same style. I thoroughly enjoyed the 2 books thus far, and the tidbits of the last that we have. After reading tGS, I was thrilled that finally something was moving. I find Brandon's writing to be entertaining, page turning, and sufficient for my needs. It seems to me that many find him a failure. I find him a solid C+/B-. And frankly, that is a hair better than books 8-10, IMHO.

[The Fisher King]

Am I wrong for cracking up at you ascertaining that if Jordan had lived to write the "Tower of Ghenji sequence" it would have taken him "three books" to do so when it has been leaked that Jordan DID write that entire sequence before his death - and in fact did so in ONE book and actually in less than two CHAPTERS?? ;-)

 

*Swish*

 

 

Fish

[XXX]

Am I wrong for cracking up at you ascertaining that if Jordan had lived to write the "Tower of Ghenji sequence" it would have taken him "three books" to do so when it has been leaked that Jordan DID write that entire sequence before his death - and in fact did so in ONE book and actually in less than two CHAPTERS?? ;-)

 

*Swish*

 

 

Fish

 

Pretty sure if Jordan was alive the sequence would be a lot longer than it is today. He would describe the color of the flames, the floor, the ceiling. the nose of the foxes, the butt of the snakes etc etc. Jordan was more or less keeping the golden goose alive as much as he could towards the later books and I for one do not believe we would have seen the end in 2013 if Jordan was still alive.

[The Fisher King]

First, an "alive" Jordan DID write that sequence.

 

Second...something else that cracks me up is this notion Jordan just wanted to keep the series going. He was desperate to end it. He had other books he really wanted to write like Infinity of Heaven, prequels and outriggers. His name alone would have made those books bestsrllers and kept making him money if money was his driving influence - and I don't think it was.

 

Lastly - it cracks me up when people say Jordan would have taken much longer than one book to wrap it up. The pace of KOD was FAST...and its not like Sanderson did a "brief" wrap up. Hes already on his THIRD "final" book ;-)

 

 

Fish

[XXX]

First, an "alive" Jordan DID write that sequence.

 

Second...something else that cracks me up is this notion Jordan just wanted to keep the series going. He was desperate to end it. He had other books he really wanted to write like Infinity of Heaven, prequels and outriggers. His name alone would have made those books bestsrllers and kept making him money if money was his driving influence - and I don't think it was.

 

Lastly - it cracks me up when people say Jordan would have taken much longer than one book to wrap it up. The pace of KOD was FAST...and its not like Sanderson did a "brief" wrap up. Hes already on his THIRD "final" book ;-)

 

 

Fish

 

Er, an alive Jordan did not put it into an actual book.

 

If Sanderson took 3 books to wrap up with his direct style of writing, Jordan would have taken 5 or more. Which book was the scene in where Jordan took 5 pages to describe just the surroundings of a meeting?

[Suttree]

First, an "alive" Jordan DID write that sequence.

 

Second...something else that cracks me up is this notion Jordan just wanted to keep the series going. He was desperate to end it. He had other books he really wanted to write like Infinity of Heaven, prequels and outriggers. His name alone would have made those books bestsrllers and kept making him money if money was his driving influence - and I don't think it was.

 

Lastly - it cracks me up when people say Jordan would have taken much longer than one book to wrap it up. The pace of KOD was FAST...and its not like Sanderson did a "brief" wrap up. Hes already on his THIRD "final" book ;-)

 

 

Fish

 

Er, an alive Jordan did not put it into an actual book.

 

If Sanderson took 3 books to wrap up with his direct style of writing, Jordan would have taken 5 or more. Which book was the scene in where Jordan took 5 pages to describe just the surroundings of a meeting?

 

Not true at all. BS added enormous amount of filler in stretching these books to three. I don't think RJ would have finished in one as he claimed but it certainly could have been done in two parts.

[The Fisher King]

If Jordan would have finished in FOUR or FIVE books he would have been within a book or two of what Sanderson has ended up doing ;)

 

 

Fish

[James Michael Parsons]

That said, I do not think RJ would have finished the story if he had another 10 or even 20 years. The time span of each book had gotten so short by 8-9-10 that it would have taken 3 books just to get through the tower of ghenji (sp?) sequence.

 

I want to respond to this comment and the critizisms of RJ. I just started reading WOT in June. I absolutely love it. I have read WOT before work and after work. It is a fantastic series. I have enjoyed every volume, including Crossroads of Twilight. (I also like Brandon's work on the series)

 

I have no doubt that Robert Jordan would have finished the WOT in 12-14 volumes,just as Branden has. In the series Volume's 1-6 were the introduction, Volume 8 was written so that the readers would consider both the Seanchan (and the Black Tower) as a threat equal to that of the dark lord. Books 7,8-11 established all the main characters (Nyneave. Elayne, Mat, End Egwane) as rulers (The Egwane story was obviously not ye finished in Book 11). Once Egwene became Amerylin, the final part of the story could begin and the final battle could take place

 

I personally felt that the Tower of Ghenji sequence was a bit rushed, but I think that indicates that RJ wanted wanted to finish the story quickly. I think he had a plan, and it would not have taken five books to complete the story. Look at it this way, in Crossroads of Twilight RJ juggled 5 stories (Perrin's rescue of Faile, Mat marrying Tuon, Egwene become Amerlyn, Elaine becoming queen, and Rand's story). The problem with CoT was that RJ was trying to tell two many stories at once. At the end of Knife of Dreams, Elayne's story was over. Egwene's story would clearly have ended in the next volume. Over the next several volumes, the pieces would have been put into place and I believe the story would have ended in volume 13 or 14.

 

By the way, I like Brandon's work on the story. I have enjoyed what he has added.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

If Sanderson took 3 books to wrap up with his direct style of writing, Jordan would have taken 5 or more. Which book was the scene in where Jordan took 5 pages to describe just the surroundings of a meeting?

(disclaimer, I have not read all 25 pages)

 

Although Brandon's style is more "direct", he has not always advanced the plot more swiftly than RJ (example: Perrin's story arc in TOM)

EDIT: Sometimes he is more "direct" in a "Where was the subtlety?" way.

[XXX]

First, an "alive" Jordan DID write that sequence.

 

Second...something else that cracks me up is this notion Jordan just wanted to keep the series going. He was desperate to end it. He had other books he really wanted to write like Infinity of Heaven, prequels and outriggers. His name alone would have made those books bestsrllers and kept making him money if money was his driving influence - and I don't think it was.

 

Lastly - it cracks me up when people say Jordan would have taken much longer than one book to wrap it up. The pace of KOD was FAST...and its not like Sanderson did a "brief" wrap up. Hes already on his THIRD "final" book ;-)

 

 

Fish

 

Er, an alive Jordan did not put it into an actual book.

 

If Sanderson took 3 books to wrap up with his direct style of writing, Jordan would have taken 5 or more. Which book was the scene in where Jordan took 5 pages to describe just the surroundings of a meeting?

 

Not true at all. BS added enormous amount of filler in stretching these books to three. I don't think RJ would have finished in one as he claimed but it certainly could have been done in two parts.

 

BS added filler to connect RJ's notes.He was paid to do one book that all.Why would be add filler for the sake of it? But he is no where near the master of filler which is and will undoubtedly be RJ for all times to come. That is why I say the series would not have ended in 2013 if RJ was alive today.

[XXX]

If Jordan would have finished in FOUR or FIVE books he would have been within a book or two of what Sanderson has ended up doing ;)

 

 

Fish

 

Still would not have finished in 2013!!

[Suttree]

BS added filler to connect RJ's notes.He was paid to do one book that all.Why would be add filler for the sake of it?

 

Your definition of "filler" seems a bit skewed. If it was needed to connect the notes then it wouldn't be classified as "filler". We know Brandon created around 50% of the content independent from the notes and a fair amount served very little purpose. This in itself shows the books could have been done in two volumes.

[TootThatHorn]

I can't agree with thinking RJ would have taken longer to write out the last books, for the biggest reason being he had a better idea of his mortality than anyone else. I feel like a lot of his reasoning for having so many books, was that he planned on 3 books, had it all worked out, then it got moved to more. So the broad scope of things were planned, but the in between needed fleshing out, which then lead to additional minor storylines. The beginning was quick, I think the end would have been as well.

 

Besides, he isn't always that way. I would have loved a series about the AoL afterwards. Not happening, nor would it have I believe, but he did do the Strike at Shayol Ghul, and it was very good, informative, and swift.

[The Fisher King]

New Spring was excellent and concise.

 

 

Fish

[Agitel]

BS added filler to connect RJ's notes.He was paid to do one book that all.Why would be add filler for the sake of it?

 

Your definition of "filler" seems a bit skewed. If it was needed to connect the notes then it wouldn't be classified as "filler". We know Brandon created around 50% of the content independent from the notes and a fair amount served very little purpose. This in itself shows the books could have been done in two volumes.

 

Mostly I feel like Perrin's plotline could have been edited down a bit in ToM while still keeping the general plotline of what Sanderson did. And Mat's foray into that town I can't remember the name of in tGS. Otherwise, I'm not sure anything else really stood out to me.

 

One thing I was wondering today was how many times Brandon has read the books. Probably fewer times than half the people on these boards. He hasn't been discussing and debating them passionately like us for years either.

[The Fisher King]

All the stuff between Perrin and Galad/Whitecloaks could have been covered in one chapter.

 

 

Fish

[elmis]

I want to respond to this comment and the critizisms of RJ. I just started reading WOT in June. I absolutely love it. I have read WOT before work and after work. It is a fantastic series. I have enjoyed every volume, including Crossroads of Twilight.

 

You wouldn't have loved it if you had to wait 2.5 years to read it, then wait almost another three to read the next one.

 

The book might work if you just look at it as chapters in a long series, but as a book in it own self it is sorely lacking. The pacing is terrible, two of the main plots are horribly boring (that is subject to taste though) and at the end of the 800 or so pages almost nothing has happened with regards to the main plot. I don't fault RJ for it as much as his editors, they should have taken a butchering axe to it.