Dark Prophecy from ToM

[Neophyte]

Again: surprised, yes. Speechless, no.

 

We can pick this up on the appropriate thread if you wish. But I'm repeating myself, so I'm done here.

 

That's ok. There really isn't anything more to say there either.

[yoniy0]

It's all in the thread; feel free to discuss it there.

I knew I should've said something before, but I'll say so now: follow FSM's advice; this thread isn't the place to begin this particular debate anew.

 

EDIT: Just had to hide a post continuing the discussion about Bashere's speechlessness. I mean it. Take this discussion to its proper place.

[Neophyte]

Um ... not to be deliberately contrary, but if Bashere's putative "speechlessness" is related to his status as a potential Darkfriend, and therefore being a "Broken Wolf," how is it not related to this thread?

 

As far as topic de-railings go, this seems to not be one. At most, it is a very minor one, and I've seen those allowed to go much further before. Consistency is key to maintaining any kind of enforcement regime. Why do you think so many law-abiding citizens still don't really like the cops?

 

Just my opinion.

[Jong]

If Bashere were a darkfriend and he fell from favor (or went over to the Dragon's side) then he would be consumed by the forsaken (midnight towers). It makes sense as far as it goes.

[yoniy0]

Just my opinion.

Thanks for that. I've seen the discussion about Bashere's allegiances evolve more than once in the past, so I know which way it can go, and that has nothing to do with this thread (although the connection you point to is there). Moreover, we try not to have two threads deal with the exact same issue, at least not if both are active at the same time, and FSM already linked the old one (so I expect it to become active again).

 

However, and in this context this is key, comments such as yours belong in private communication, as is clearly stated in our code of conduct. Keep that in mind, in the future.

[Hyronimus]

Hey, is there any real reason to think that the prophecy isn't at least partially completed.

 

I'm still thinking the broken wolf is Ituralde (though have been convinced that Rand is a pretty valid option).

 

This was the case with LoC.

 

The darkness so beautiful has come. The darkfriends have given themselves to the DO, seen in their eyes.

 

The will of men has been shaken.

[Mik]

As I said in that thread, Bashere wasn't just surprised, he was dumbstruck. I also said that this was not a pro-survival trait in the Borderlands and I would not have expected to see it in a Marshal-General. Someone in the group that came south to 'test' Rand said something similar. It's all in the thread; feel free to discuss it there.

 

If I recall correctly no one really agreed with your assessment there FSM. It just doesn't work...

Hey there your royal epicness! ;)

 

What doesn't work -from the first time we meet Bashere- is him being truthfull. The only thing that works is that he's a friend of the dark, even.

 

Just to summarize Bashere's odd points/ lies from my posts (if you want these pointers better explained, look up my posts);

1: Bashere intrudes on Rand's location without a Maiden escort!?

This happened only with two other people during two books: Lanfear and Isendre. Lanfear through a Gateway (in a chapter even called 'gateway'iirc) and Isendre half-naked, carrying a tray of wine inside the Roof of the Maidens, where Rand is halted by Maidens every two steps of the way (so that has gateway written all over it as well). So that's one Forsaken and a known Darkfriend. Bashere is number three to manage that same feat! Nifty eh?

 

2: Bashere found his way to the Royal Palace through Caemlyn!?

I don't understand for the life of me why noone sees this as a flaming arrow saying "LIAR!". No sane man, let alone a general, let alone a Great Captain (!!) would ever try to just stroll through a city during war-time with Trollocs, Myrddraal, Aiel & townsfolk fighting on the rumor that Rand was in the city somewhere.

 

3: The Aiel held all the gates, so how did Bashere get through armed!?

It's war. They're Aiel. Noone knows him. Bashere's story is bullshit.

 

4: Bashere found Rand!?

The Royal Palace is so big, only three Royal Palaces fit inside the whole Inner City! Nyneave talks about miles of corridors. How did Bashere find Rand? (I'll spell it: g.a.t.e.w.a.y.!)

 

5: Bashere went 'Male Channeler hunting' with 9k light horse'!"?

Well.... read my posts. Noone in the books (and. I . mean. noone) ...not townsfolk, not queens, not the Amyrlyn, not other Great Captains (we have three even contenplating a similar situation) would ever go hunt a Male Channeler on the loose with light horse! It. doesn't. work. It's foolish even for a farmer. So, why would a Great Captain -who went toe to toe with Taim before and lost- even consider trying? It's beyond ridiculous.

 

What doesn't work from the moment Bashere enters the story, is Bashere being anything but a lying Friend of the Dark.

*shrugs*

[thisguy]

delete

[shortkut]

did not have time to read everything here because i was 10 pages behind so i apologize if this was already said. if it was referring to rodel, could rand's super ta'veren-ness have altered the pattern/prophecy and that is what almost lead to a direct confrontation with the DO, the pattern almost ripping?

[Elisaroth]

Perrin cant die - Reason is aviendha future seeing. where her grand-child hands over plans of contingency to attack Caemlyn,Tear,Charien,illian and two rivers. Meaning there will be strong mililitary defended city again where two rivers is. If perrin/faile die i dont see how can it be becose i think benefit of high lord of two rivers last until Aybara line last and as far as i know faile has not yet have child.

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning,(3 teorys for me 1. is halls of mouring is finnland. 2. is that after caymlan is burned down mat feel sorrow for not opening letter and halls of mouring is ruins of caymlan 3. is ebu dar Tylin palace.) and

the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who

will Destroy,(this is clear rand and hes plan to brake seals and free dark one)

the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.(i refer perrins pride being arrogant enogh to call himself blacksmith yet same time leading armys. Other chance is that perrin after fighting shadowspawn to hold back them from blight lose alot of hes army and pride of being leader what he sort of took up will be tranished. sort of like after dumais wells. Faile cant be perrins pride becose what i wrote above she cant die before there is hair of abara/bashire line or two rivers wount be haveing high lord 2 generation in future.)

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

(1. Broken wolf is Slayer who is luc(uncle to rand) and isam(relited to lan) consumed by towers of midnight means chosen finaly give him task that kills him probably perrin luc who is tought to be dead and allso Isam is known to be dead are still cherised by ppl and hes death if it will become known will bring fear and sorrow becose he has fallen for darkness dont see how tho it shake will of ppl.

2. Broken wolf is noal aka Jain Farstrider whom ppl allso think hes dead consumed by towers of midnight then would be tower of Genjei /then again isamael used(consumed) jain in past but most likely that isint it./and hes well respected hero whos death may realy well bring sorrow and shake will of ppl but i dont see how it bring fear.

3. what i acualy think will be most possible is Lan because Min saw viewing of nynaeve and saw She was kneeling over someone's corpse in a posture of grief. Evry borderlander know that one day lan will die in bight avenging hes country. Consumed by towers of midnight means he probably land on diamaterd who is leading forces of shadow out of blight and kills him. if lan fall hes known well along borderlands and allso along warders means if he dies it will shake will of borderland mans and bring sorrow for malkieri who will not be avanged and fear of shadow of being so strong,)

[Ishna]

'And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.'

 

 

Could this actually refer to the breaking of the seals?

[stillwill]

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the "Broken Champion" will end up being Ishmael/Moridin?

[Stubby]

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the "Broken Champion" will end up being Ishmael/Moridin?

 

LTT is Lord of the Morning

Ishy is Lord of the Evening

 

so yes to your question

[yoniy0]

Ishy is Lord of the Evening

That is speculative. The rest of the paragraph would tend to imply the DO, to me.

[Neophyte]

Ishy is Lord of the Evening

That is speculative. The rest of the paragraph would tend to imply the DO, to me.

 

It's pretty reasonable speculation. Ishamael has faced Rand before and shed his blood. And RJ apparently did confirm that those two souls square off again and again as the Wheel turns. The symmetry is hard to overlook.

[yoniy0]

The symmetry is hard to overlook.

And the rest smacks of someone revered as a deity. Sure, Ba'alzamon was treated like one, but even still, I wouldn't call it a clear cut by any means.

[thisguy]

The Nae'blis would be godlike to most DFs. I think it is Moridin, although I agree it's not clear cut.

[thisguy]

If it weren't for the Broken Wolf being named the Broken Wolf, I'd say this was Mat. He's the only one to have died so far and still be living and he has a connection to the Seanchan Towers of Midnight as he's the Prince of Ravens......... He's a fox and not a wolf, though.... he is missing an eye and memories and so could be considered broken.....

[Alonin]

How about a crazy theory of the Broken Wolf being Demandred? First, in the Age of Legends, he was constantly second to LTT. This eventually led to his "breaking" and turning to the shadow. Turning him into the Broken Wolf. Next, knowing Death. Well, he obviously knows Moridin and seems to be able to make demands of him for that matter. I'll get to the midnight towers in one second. As of "his destruction," some of the things he may do in aMOL (like Caemlyn if that was him) could shake the will of the light and cause much sorrow. Now being consumed by the midnight towers. Two possiblilities. After wreaking havoc, he could in fact realize the truth of what the DO breaking free could mean, and then leave the shadow to help the light win so Demandred can rule in a post-TG world. Second is that the Towers of Midnight is a symbol of the Seanchan Imperial Family. So in some way, Tuon (and/or the seanchan) could destroy/defeat him.

 

Ok. Bring on the debate now.

[Elisaroth]

biggest problem is that towers of midnight has 2 meanings 1 is 13 black towers in seanchan area other is that 13 towers of midnight = 13 forsaken.

[Bastor]

First of all I think we should examine the prophecy paragraph as a whole thing and not just mix and match to get our ideas validated. That is not a very scientific method. Heh... :)

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and

the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who

will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

 

Anyway what can we see here?

 

One-eyed fool is obviously Mat. It seems too late to introduce another One-eyed goofy character, characterize him enough so that the reader and the world around him cares of his fate. So Mat it is.

 

The First Among Vermin is either be Rand or Egwene depending on who leads the Aes Sedai (both male and female I guess) into battle to brake the seals of the Dark One. It is probably Rand who will by the end of the book have the trust of all male and female channelers. So we can assume he is the First Among Vermin.

 

The next line is often mistaken for something else. All that we read in it is that the PRIDE of the Fallen Blacksmith shall come to and end. Considering that the two other prophecies are 99% surely referring to the two other main characters I see no point in arguing that this one is not about Perrin.

 

"Yea" as used here implies that it means: "More than this; not only so, but; -- used to mark the addition of a more specific or more emphatic clause. Cf. Nay, adv."

 

So not only will his pride come to an end BUT the Broken Wolf will also fall and be consumed by the Towers.

 

Which could mean a lot of things.

 

 

This is wild speculation but I think that Perrin is sure to have an arc at Imfaral.

 

 

 

"Imfaral is the sixth-largest city in the Empire of Seanchan and is famed as the location of the The Towers of Midnight, a large fortress complex. Imfaral is a port city located on the eastern-most peninsula of the northern landmass of the Seanchan continent, on the dividing channel between the two landmasses.

Imfaral was captured during the early days of the Conquest and used as a base of operations by Luthair Paendrag Mondwin's forces until they secured Seandar later in the war."

- Wheel of Time Wiki

 

 

 

Also this seems interesting:

 

"Since the Consolidation, the Towers have remained unoccupied. Legend has it that when a time of dire need comes, the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong" "

 

 

If I have to go on a wild speculation I think Perrin will be thought dead by most men, his forces will lose faith but somehow he will travel to the Towers (as a prisoner of great importance?) and he will right what is wrong - the Seanchan ways.

[Elisaroth]

One way to parrin end up there would be battle agenst slayer in aMoL they run over ocean whit that massive leaps and he dies there. I dont see eny other way why parrin would end up there.

 

the Imperial family will return to the Towers and "right that which is wrong" " < this imply to some sort of prophecy which i think "right which is wrong" would be wrong doing of collaring AS.

 

In that case would not it make more sense of tuon and mat end up being in there instead of perrin.

 

 

enyway good speculation.

[78WARLOCK]

There is alot of thoughts about this topic so I thought I'd put mine here. I just read something interesting about that...I'll thin the wording a bit but it was in CoT pg.225 with Perrin talking with Elyas..

 

Elyas tells Perrin:" They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the shadow." he goes on,"Worse, if they fail(to kill the Darkhound) the Darkhound can eat the souls of those that aren't quite dead yet, and in a year or so, there'd be a new pack of Shadowbrothers that did'nt remember ever being wolves."

Perrin asks Elyas,"Can they eat a man's soul, Elyas ? Say a man who can talk to wolves?" Elyas shrugged. An answer to that question might come only at the point of death.

 

So my thought is Perrin will die, almost, and have the Shadowbrothers start to consume his soul and Fail will kill Perrin. Thus having Egewens dream of the Falcon come true and the "Broken Crown".

 

Thoughts ????

[Terez]

A mod will probably lock it. (That's what they usually do when this happens.)

[Terez]

I think it's very unlikely that the 'broken crown' will refer to anything other than the crown of Saldaea, and I'm not sure how you get 'broken crown' out of your scenario anyway.