Most infuriating moment/topic in the books

[Suttree]

When Aiel called wetlanders Oathbreakers.

Actually they were the ones broke oath.

And they thought wetlander weak when they themselves had no courage to face their history.

 

They don't call all wetlanders oath breakers. That refers only to people from Cairhein specifically because of Laman's sin.

 

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

[MasterAblar]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

[Suttree]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

[BFG]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

 

Actually one of the few times I genuinely like Eg is for her reaction then.

[Damer Sedai]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

 

Actually one of the few times I genuinely like Eg is for her reaction then.

 

I agree that the scenario was believable, and that the SAS would feel a need to respond in some measured way to a threat like TDR

 

But there are several potentially frustrating elements for readers, I think

1. I could see someone finding that the fact the "good guys" Aes Sedai were manipulated into conflict with Rand frustrating, because they should be allies (the "Why can't we all just get along" factor)

2. The fact that the SAS never mention "why" things have changed, leaving Rand (and other potential allies) in the dark as to the reason why they changed their position towards him

3. The Salidar Aes Sedai, in their analysis of the situation, didn't even countenance the possibility that they were being manipulated by outside forces, letting their prejudices color their assessment.

4. The general blase response to Alanna's forcible bonding by the SAS (aside from Merana brief dressing down of Alanna), then accepting her into their number, and never anticipating that their position is then compromised as a result

 

Though, I agree with you Sut... doesn't make my Top 10.

[MasterAblar]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

 

Probably more the Aes Sedai's attitudes rather than their actions.

[Amandera]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

Yep, that's the one. Barge in was a better word than ambush.

 

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

What disturbed me about that is the amount of crap people are giving Rand. Don't pick them apart, look at my previous post as a sequence.

 

1) He gets mind-raped, followed by self-loathing for scaring his friends.

2) Salidar AS gets attacked but never once they consider Shaido or DFs, and immediately set out the bully Rand.

3) Gets kidnapped, tortured.

[Suttree]

Don't pick them apart, look at my previous post as a sequence.

 

1) He gets mind-raped, followed by self-loathing for scaring his friends.

2) Salidar AS gets attacked but never once they consider Shaido or DFs, and immediately set out the bully Rand.

3) Gets kidnapped, tortured.

 

Ah fair enough...

[Damer Sedai]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

Yep, that's the one. Barge in was a better word than ambush.

 

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act. Same with the 2Rs girls finding out Rand could channel. 3000 years of men being walking nightmares will do that. Just look at how his own friends reacted when they found out. It just seems odd that those types o things would "infuriate" anyone. Shrug.

What disturbed me about that is the amount of shit people are giving Rand. Don't pick them apart, look at my previous post as a sequence.

 

1) He gets mind-raped, followed by self-loathing for scaring his friends.

2) Salidar AS gets attacked but never once they consider Shaido or DFs, and immediately set out the bully Rand.

3) Gets kidnapped, tortured.

 

You are absolutely right, and sorry we focused on one small element of your topic. I am 100% with you. The amount of crap the supposed "Good Guys" give Rand in LoC

as a whole is untenable. Its why Dumai's Wells is such a cathartic release, despite its worrisome implications from then on out.

[driedraspberry]

@Cem

 

Am I spacing? What are you referring to when you say the Salidar AS "ambushed" Rand?

 

I think he's talking about when the whole embassy barged in on Rand in the Palace after one of the Aes Sedai had been nearly killed which they believed was Rand's doing.

 

Ah ok, thanks MA. That of course is a perfectly believable scenario, not sure how else they would be expected to act.

 

More diplomatically perhaps? Trying to frighten Rand with MoM was how the arrogant with bruised egos would act, not politically savvy masterminds...oh wait. :(

 

It's pretty infuriating how badass AS could have been and how far from that they actually turned out. Interesting though.

[Amandera]

Well, I would have expected them not to jump to conclusions, at least not the one they did jump to. It could have been other things like I said. There is no way they didn't hear of the Shaido War, so they could have thought of Shaido. Or Darkfriends, Compulsion etc. IMO, Rand sending Aiel assassins after one of them is the least plausible of possibilities. If Rand wanted to kill them, he just would have. He most likely would be a match for them even if all 7 were linked.

[MasterAblar]

Well, I would have expected them not to jump to conclusions, at least not the one they did jump to. It could have been other things like I said. There is no way they didn't hear of the Shaido War, so they could have thought of Shaido. Or Darkfriends, Compulsion etc. IMO, Rand sending Aiel assassins after one of them is the least plausible of possibilities. If Rand wanted to kill them, he just would have. He most likely would be a match for them even if all 7 were linked.

 

They were predisposed to suspect Rand in the first place. They thought he was being hugely disrespectful towards them. In other words he wasn't treating them like saints.

 

LTT voice claims he couldn't take on all seven at once. Although the angreal probably would have made up the difference. Still 7 vs 1 is tough odds, even for Rand.

[Amandera]

That predisposition is what I have problem with.

 

And he couldn't sustain seven shields on them at once. That doesn't mean he couldn't kill them if he attacked preemptively.

[MasterAblar]

That predisposition is what I have problem with.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that you're not the only one.

 

And he couldn't sustain seven shields on them at once. That doesn't mean he couldn't kill them if he attacked preemptively.

 

True, especially since they can't sense his channelling, and would never expect him to attack them. And besides Guaire Amalasan and Raolin Darksbane both handled 6 just fine, so I imagine Rand can take on 7.

[Amandera]

That predisposition is what I have problem with.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that you're the only one.

Maybe. I like Rand and dislike AS except for a few so maybe I'm a little biased.

[MasterAblar]

That predisposition is what I have problem with.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that you're the only one.

Maybe. I like Rand and dislike AS except for a few so maybe I'm a little biased.

 

LOL, sorry, I meant to write you're not the only one.

[Amandera]

Oh, well. All is good then. :)

[Suttree]

That predisposition is what I have problem with.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that you're the only one.

Maybe. I like Rand and dislike AS except for a few so maybe I'm a little biased.

 

LOL, sorry, I meant to write you're not the only one.

 

HA...it's just so taken for granted I read it how you meant to write it the first time!

[aranyaka]

When Aiel called wetlanders Oathbreakers.

Actually they were the ones broke oath.

And they thought wetlander weak when they themselves had no courage to face their history.

 

They don't call all wetlanders oath breakers. That refers only to people from Cairhein specifically because of Laman's sin.

 

They called Cairhein Treekillers because of Laman's sin and called all others oathbreakers.

[Suttree]

When Aiel called wetlanders Oathbreakers.

Actually they were the ones broke oath.

And they thought wetlander weak when they themselves had no courage to face their history.

 

They don't call all wetlanders oath breakers. That refers only to people from Cairhein specifically because of Laman's sin.

 

They called Cairhein Treekillers because of Laman's sin and called all others oathbreakers.

 

Nope...they call them "wetlanders". "treekillers and "oathbreakers are reserved for Cairheinin. As in...

 

TSR

"Cairhien," Rand said. "You're talking about Cairhien, and Avendoraldera, and Laman cutting down the Tree. "

"Laman is dead for his punishment," Rhuarc, said in a flat voice. "The oathbreakers are done with."

 

& later Couladin...

 

TSR

Couladin ranted on, waving his arms to make sure all saw. "...will not stop with the lands of the oathbreakers! We will take all the lands to the Aryth Ocean! The wetlanders cannot stand against —" Suddenly he became aware of the silence where eager cries had been. He knew what had caused it. Without turning to look at Rand, he shouted, "Wetlander! Look at his clothes! A wetlander!"

 

& from LoC

Han was short for an Aiel – which meant well above average for a wetlander – and as touchy about it as Enaila. And of course, Aiel despised "treekillers," one of their names for Cairhienin, beyond any other wetlanders. Their other name for them was "oathbreakers."

 

& tPoD

Sighing, Aviendha gave up trying to ignore her companions’ conversation behind her, though irritation crackled through it like heat lightning. Even that was better than upsetting herself over a son of treekillers. Oathbreakers. A despised blood the world would be better off without.

[Sid]

Suttree, somehow someone's going to find a way to argue with you on this point, I just know it.

[Knivy]

I want to, I just havent figured out how yet....

[Suttree]

Suttree, somehow someone's going to find a way to argue with you on this point, I just know it.

 

Heh. Oh I've no doubt. Things always get weird around here in the 3-4 months or so leading up to a release.

[aranyaka]

When Aiel called wetlanders Oathbreakers.

Actually they were the ones broke oath.

And they thought wetlander weak when they themselves had no courage to face their history.

 

They don't call all wetlanders oath breakers. That refers only to people from Cairhein specifically because of Laman's sin.

 

They called Cairhein Treekillers because of Laman's sin and called all others oathbreakers.

 

Nope...they call them "wetlanders". "treekillers and "oathbreakers are reserved for Cairheinin. As in...

 

TSR

"Cairhien," Rand said. "You're talking about Cairhien, and Avendoraldera, and Laman cutting down the Tree. "

"Laman is dead for his punishment," Rhuarc, said in a flat voice. "The oathbreakers are done with."

 

& later Couladin...

 

TSR

Couladin ranted on, waving his arms to make sure all saw. "...will not stop with the lands of the oathbreakers! We will take all the lands to the Aryth Ocean! The wetlanders cannot stand against —" Suddenly he became aware of the silence where eager cries had been. He knew what had caused it. Without turning to look at Rand, he shouted, "Wetlander! Look at his clothes! A wetlander!"

 

& from LoC

Han was short for an Aiel – which meant well above average for a wetlander – and as touchy about it as Enaila. And of course, Aiel despised "treekillers," one of their names for Cairhienin, beyond any other wetlanders. Their other name for them was "oathbreakers."

 

& tPoD

Sighing, Aviendha gave up trying to ignore her companions’ conversation behind her, though irritation crackled through it like heat lightning. Even that was better than upsetting herself over a son of treekillers. Oathbreakers. A despised blood the world would be better off without.

You are right.

But I still think if some one had broken his own oath, how could he call others oathbreakers?

[Amandera]

The gift of Avendoraldera was to the people of Cairhien, not to the Sun Throne. Laman Damodred may have order it cut, but people let him. Most other people than Aiel would probably only blame Laman but the Aiel are used to clan chiefs while the other nations have mostly absolute monarchy.