Ha! I called it on Egwene! Chapter 1 SPOILER!

[fionwe1987]

So.... Egwene did research the Seals, and her insane shifts of stance were a result of bad writing. She has solid research, she has a reasonable position, and by all evidence, is making the right call. She points out the very flaw in Rand's explanation to Nynaeve that I did.

 

Thoughts?

[David Selig]

I thought "Fionwe was right about this" when I read it.

 

Good call.

[Neophyte]

Bad writing is a pretty good excuse for the way people have reacted ...

[Sid]

Huzzah! it was all bad writing!

 

oh wait

[Luckers]

The whole chapter reads like 'Dear fans, I MADE NO MISTAKES, LOOK--THE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE WITH ME!!!!, with casual disinterest. Brandon'.

 

That being said the single thing I did like was the return to some slight degree of reasonable intellect in the characters.

[KakitaOCU]

See, and I found no issue with Egwene having done research off-screen, or the kindle being used, or the various other things that happened on the side lines. We've had many examples of people not revealing their whole plans, even in their internal thoughts. Why Would Egwene tell anyone "Actually, his plan might be sound, but the details need effort." when she's trying to galvanize them on her side. Politically it makes much more sense to say "He's going to do X." with the implication that it's bad, then see who takes her side and where she needs to work.

 

So no, no real issues with Egwene only revealing on the night before the meeting that "There's some validity to what he says, but he can't just do it now."

[fionwe1987]

The whole chapter reads like 'Dear fans, I MADE NO MISTAKES, LOOK--THE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE WITH ME!!!!, with casual disinterest. Brandon'.

 

That being said the single thing I did like was the return to some slight degree of reasonable intellect in the characters.

 

Exactly. They're behaving a little more normally, which makes me glad. If we had gotten a rehash of ToM Egwene, I would have screamed. Reading this only reinforces the shit pile ToM was.

[MarkDiLillo]

So much happened in this chapter...yet it was all taken in stride as if its no big deal.

 

Andor just got CRUSHED by the shadow and everyone is just like "you guys did well lets do what we can" as if this happens every weekend. I mean wtf...Elayne just lost the city and maybe kingdom she worked so hard for in one night and she seems totally OK with it.

[MasterAblar]

So much happened in this chapter...yet it was all taken in stride as if its no big deal.

 

Andor just got CRUSHED by the shadow and everyone is just like "you guys did well lets do what we can" as if this happens every weekend. I mean wtf...Elayne just lost the city and maybe kingdom she worked so hard for in one night and she seems totally OK with it.

 

Would you rather she be completely panicking? She's a Queen! She better be in control of herself, and be getting stuff done. This isn't from her PoV. For all we know she was weeping mess inside. Let the shock pass, and then when she takes a moment to sit down, she might fully realize how bad this is.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The whole chapter reads like 'Dear fans, I MADE NO MISTAKES, LOOK--THE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE WITH ME!!!!, with casual disinterest. Brandon'.

 

That being said the single thing I did like was the return to some slight degree of reasonable intellect in the characters.

 

Exactly. They're behaving a little more normally, which makes me glad. If we had gotten a rehash of ToM Egwene, I would have screamed. Reading this only reinforces the shit pile ToM was.

 

ToM Egwene is not Egwene, it is Semirhage in disguse. Semigwene.

 

In a way, I am happy that she has gone back to her older self. What she should have been in ToM. However, the writing of it is terribly galling. I could almost wish that she WAS being that stupid. Instead we get basically a list of retcons which make it look ridiculous.

 

Next chapter we will see that Rand and Egwene have actually been secretly meeting and have already sealed the bore, and all this was just a show to get everyone to agree to the Dragon's Peace.

 

Despite this, I like where it is going. I believe that Rand's trust in Egwene is now justified. She has done exactly as she should. I doubt Rand actually wants to break the seals right away, he just said it to get everyone's attention. I can't wait for them to both put their minds to work on the LB.

[MarkDiLillo]

So much happened in this chapter...yet it was all taken in stride as if its no big deal.

 

Andor just got CRUSHED by the shadow and everyone is just like "you guys did well lets do what we can" as if this happens every weekend. I mean wtf...Elayne just lost the city and maybe kingdom she worked so hard for in one night and she seems totally OK with it.

 

Would you rather she be completely panicking? She's a Queen! She better be in control of herself, and be getting stuff done. This isn't from her PoV. For all we know she was weeping mess inside. Let the shock pass, and then when she takes a moment to sit down, she might fully realize how bad this is.

 

The problem is that we have 11 books that show how she does not behave like this. =/

[jburkal'hard]

I just imagine her saying, "I get to decide when to break the seals, YUP YUP YUP" in the voice of Ducky from the Land Before Time movies

[MarkDiLillo]

Now starting to give serious thought to Roedran/Demandred walking into FoM and flat out blasting Rand's head off in front of everyone and escaping because everyone else is "frozen in shock!!!11"

[Neophyte]

The whole chapter reads like 'Dear fans, I MADE NO MISTAKES, LOOK--THE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE WITH ME!!!!, with casual disinterest. Brandon'.

 

That being said the single thing I did like was the return to some slight degree of reasonable intellect in the characters.

 

Exactly. They're behaving a little more normally, which makes me glad. If we had gotten a rehash of ToM Egwene, I would have screamed. Reading this only reinforces the shit pile ToM was.

 

What kills me is that TGS Egwene was fairly epic - I'm talking more about her method of resistance to Elaida than the Fount of Power bit. Egwene was thoughtful and determined but not dismissive. Then she won, put on the stole, and got all autocratic and condescending. I had reservations when she started giving "shame on you" speeches to the sisters at the end - they deserved it, but the tone was off, to me. She should have been the Amyrlin that she was while she had on a novice dress. Then lines like "I may be Amyrlin, Nynaeve, but I am still Aes Sedai. Servant of all," wouldn't feel so ... out of place.

[MarkDiLillo]

Pretty sure you liked Egwene then because she was mostly written by RJ at that point.

[vitak]

So much happened in this chapter...yet it was all taken in stride as if its no big deal.

 

Andor just got CRUSHED by the shadow and everyone is just like "you guys did well lets do what we can" as if this happens every weekend. I mean wtf...Elayne just lost the city and maybe kingdom she worked so hard for in one night and she seems totally OK with it.

 

Would you rather she be completely panicking? She's a Queen! She better be in control of herself, and be getting stuff done. This isn't from her PoV. For all we know she was weeping mess inside. Let the shock pass, and then when she takes a moment to sit down, she might fully realize how bad this is.

 

The problem is that we have 11 books that show how she does not behave like this. =/

 

Yeah, but in the last 11 books, the Last Battle hadn't started, so maybe (hopefully?) she's realized that there are slightly more important things going on than preserving her city. Or maybe she's just having one of those crazy mood swings in which she's actually extrremely rational (although I don't seem to remember one of those happening in previous books).

[MasterAblar]

So much happened in this chapter...yet it was all taken in stride as if its no big deal.

 

Andor just got CRUSHED by the shadow and everyone is just like "you guys did well lets do what we can" as if this happens every weekend. I mean wtf...Elayne just lost the city and maybe kingdom she worked so hard for in one night and she seems totally OK with it.

 

Would you rather she be completely panicking? She's a Queen! She better be in control of herself, and be getting stuff done. This isn't from her PoV. For all we know she was weeping mess inside. Let the shock pass, and then when she takes a moment to sit down, she might fully realize how bad this is.

 

The problem is that we have 11 books that show how she does not behave like this. =/

 

True, but she hasn't been a Queen for 11 books either. And you notice that she wants to go through the gateway despite Brigitte's clear opposition. Don't get me wrong, I do think there should have been a bit more of an "oh shit" reaction from her, and when she congratulated Guybon, I was sort of like "wait what", because you know her city is on fire. But I still can't fault her for behaving like someone in charge would.

[KakitaOCU]

Mark, that'd actually be an amazing way to do Rand's death. At least if it's done either in a flash or with a really good set up. It's also the type of thing I could see Demandred doing, (Also a nice symetry with Rand's earlier "You sit down like you're going to play and then punch them in the face.") statement.

 

I disagree with you on Elayne, I've often seen her not openly panick or flutter about regardless of what she's feeling inside. Once we get a PoV from her I'll make an opinion, but right now she's behaving as a leader should, specially with a shock factor.

[randsc]

The whole chapter reads like 'Dear fans, I MADE NO MISTAKES, LOOK--THE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE WITH ME!!!!, with casual disinterest. Brandon'.

 

That being said the single thing I did like was the return to some slight degree of reasonable intellect in the characters.

 

Exactly. Still, it needed to be done.

[David Selig]

Remember when she was captured by the BA in KOD? Birgitte commented that she remained unnaturally calm and unemotional throughout and was all business immediately when she got released and there was battle which needed fighting. So it' no so out of character...

[MasterAblar]

 

Remember when she was captured by the BA in KOD? Birgitte commented that she remained unnaturally calm and unemotional throughout and was all business immediately when she got released and there was battle which needed fighting. So it' no so out of character...

 

Exactly. Now her city burning is on another level to be fair, and is more of a shock, but Elayne has been shown to be able to stay calm in these kinds of situations, so I don't have all that much of a problem with how she acted here.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Remember when she was captured by the BA in KOD? Birgitte commented that she remained unnaturally calm and unemotional throughout and was all business immediately when she got released and there was battle which needed fighting. So it' no so out of character...

 

Yeah, I didn't see a problem with this. Elayne is holding the Source, she is Aes Sedai, she is a Queen. She lives to handle these things.

 

Plus, it would be a huge, huge shock. It probably hasn't even hit her yet. She won't let it. She needs to do what needs doing, then she can mourn.

 

Like Perrin says "Care for the living. I'll morn for the dead later."

[MarkDiLillo]

Frankly, when Brandon Sanderson came to his own personal conclusion that he could not even attempt to duplicate RJ's style of writing, that's when he should have turned the project down and given it to someone else.

[randsc]

 

Remember when she was captured by the BA in KOD? Birgitte commented that she remained unnaturally calm and unemotional throughout and was all business immediately when she got released and there was battle which needed fighting. So it' no so out of character...

 

Exactly. Now her city burning is on another level to be fair, and is more of a shock, but Elayne has been shown to be able to stay calm in these kinds of situations, so I don't have all that much of a problem with how she acted here.

 

It's not at all uncommon in the real world. One of my guys can barely keep it together under normal circumstances. A parking ticket will send him into a rage; a spat with his wife sends him into a funk; the Jets (the effin JETS!) winning has him practically singing.

 

In a hairy fire, he's ice cold. Best man you could ask for. So no, I don't find Elayne's reaction the least bit odd.

[fionwe1987]

I get Elayne not reacting openly. But why is Egwene's reaction so muted? Or Rand's? For that matter, how did Talmanes go through Caemlyn and not feel for its people more? One of the iconic locations of WoT has been destroyed, and for all the reaction we get, its like the Farmer in Salesin died!