CAUTION: Super Spoiler Prologue discussion; Leave the cops out of it :)

[fionwe1987]

Elayne knew there was an attack planned on Andor, not caemlyn specifically.

 

Still silly and contrived, though, given that there are hundreds of Kinwomen available to Elayne, many of which quite strong.

 

Come on ... Chesmal is working with a group of Darkfriends in Caemlyn, the seat of Elayne's power, preparing for an invasion of Andor, and Elayne thinks it is coming where, to Four Kings?

 

And she knew it was coming soon, because Chesmal told her that "the deadline nears."

Well no. She thought the Waygate was secure. And Trollocs can't just drop down into Caemlyn. She she had good reason to think they'd have to invade the old way and attack the borders of Andor first.

There's really just no excuse for Elayne here.

The flaw is in the writing not the character. The problem is, it isn't just Elayne who's shown up as stupid. Morghase, Dyelin and Birgette didn't think of this either. And given how much experience Birgette has, there's no way she didn't consider this. This is just atrocious plotting.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Could anyone explain why Egeanin decided to go all the way to Caemlyn if she wanted to meet Elayne? She was right in Caemlyn after all, and Mat was just about to have an audience with Elayne when she left. The whole thing seems contrived.

 

I liked the prologue overall, though the presence of only 4 Kin women in Caemlyn really stretches plausibility. And why didn't the one Kinwoman who survived simply open a small gateway and scream through it for help or throw a letter through, anything to draw the attention of those at Merrilor?

Two very good points here. And the removal of the entire Kin is baffling to me. In ToM, the Kin agreed to make Caemlyn their home in exchange for Healing and Traveling. If you have four women who need to link to Travel at all meeting all the Gateway needs, how're they supposed to handle Healing?

 

Rereading this part, It does seem that Egeanin isn't even aware that Elayne is the Queen of Andor, which would be just silly. Domon at least should know very well who Elayne Trakand is and her rank in Andor and besdies both Egeanin should've asked Thom and Mat for more info on Elayne back in Caemlyn since she wanted so much to meet her.

 

Egeanin knew Elayne was Daughter Heir of Andor as far back as TSR. Her forgetting this is just one of those continuity snafus we have to expect with RJ not writing the final books, I think.

 

There is a minimum strength required to open a gateway (recall Sorilea teaching Cadsuane the weave). It would seem from all available evidence that if you have that minunum strength to open a gateway, you also have the minumum strength for a person sized gateway. IE- you need a strenght of '5' to open it. You need a strenghth of '5' to make it human sized. Hence if you are only strong enough to open a plate sized gateway you cant open any gateway. Look at it like pulling open a stuck window, you need more strength to get it moving than you do to move it once its unstuck. Once you can get a gateway to form at all, making it size up to a normal gateway size is easy, getting larger gets progressively harder.

Not true. We've been told of Aes Sedai who can only make Gateways large enough to put their hand through, but two such can link to make one large enough to for humans to pass through. Cadsuane also says her well has only enough power to make a knee-high Gateway you have to crawl through.

 

Amen to that. The entire Field of Merrilor conept is ridiculous. Egwene is going to intimidate Rand by bringing the worlds armies togethers? When they are met or dwarfed by Rand's own forces? Not to mention... what are they going to do attack him? The whole idea is ludicrious and a waste of resources. Or, a plot contrivance anyway. They could have set a table for 20 in the middle of the field and had the same discussion, come the time.

Its definitely a contrivance. Even though Egwene isn't even contemplating a military use for those armies against Rand, she wants every one of them there? Totally idiotic.

 

If Sanderson had thought about it more, he could have come up with a better explnation. Say, have Egwene contrive it this way so that the various national armies could be fused under a unified command for the LB, and sent packing to the Blight border straight after the meeting; and Merrillor is her staging ground to make this alliance. It would have taken an extra sentence or two to make it this way, so the lack of effort is even more disappointing.

Please quote where any channeler makes a small Gateway other than Androl. I simply do not remember any.

[Terez]

It was Semirhage who discovered that a circle of thirteen, using thirteen Myrddraal as a sort of filter, could turn anyone who could channel to the Shadow, though she invariably preferred to handle Aes Sedai herself. She hated everyone who called themselves Aes Sedai, and took the greatest pleasure in personally breaking them, by slow increments so they could be fully aware of what was happening to the last.

[XoMeltdownoX]

It was Semirhage who discovered that a circle of thirteen, using thirteen Myrddraal as a sort of filter, could turn anyone who could channel to the Shadow, though she invariably preferred to handle Aes Sedai herself. She hated everyone who called themselves Aes Sedai, and took the greatest pleasure in personally breaking them, by slow increments so they could be fully aware of what was happening to the last.

Thank you.

[fionwe1987]

Please quote where any channeler makes a small Gateway other than Androl. I simply do not remember any.

We haven't seen one, but we have been told they can be made:

 

The sisters with the strength to make gateways had all been in Salidar long enough to know it well. Those who could weave a gateway of useful size were able to Travel almost anywhere from there, and land right on the spot.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Please quote where any channeler makes a small Gateway other than Androl. I simply do not remember any.

We haven't seen one, but we have been told they can be made:

 

The sisters with the strength to make gateways had all been in Salidar long enough to know it well. Those who could weave a gateway of useful size were able to Travel almost anywhere from there, and land right on the spot.

Thanks. That is enough to go by. It could be that the single Kin member left may not have been strong enough to do even a small Gateway. However from the description of her healing and torching trollocs seems to suggest she was strong enogh to make a small Gatway as you suggest. If that is true than BS screwed up. Good catch.

[Neophyte]

Please quote where any channeler makes a small Gateway other than Androl. I simply do not remember any.

 

I knew I remembered people talking about smaller gateways. In ToM chapter 51:

 

" I will have that gateway ready," Cadsuane continued more softly. "But it will be very small. The Well will only give me enough to make one we'd have to crawl through. We shouldn't need it. These people will fight for you. They will want to fight for you. Only bumbling foolishness could keep them from it."

 

The threshold is clearly not "man-sized." Since we don't know what it is, I'm afraid I'm chalking this up to someone's lack of imagination.

 

 

The flaw is in the writing not the character. The problem is, it isn't just Elayne who's shown up as stupid. Morghase, Dyelin and Birgette didn't think of this either. And given how much experience Birgette has, there's no way she didn't consider this. This is just atrocious plotting.

 

Given Elayne's propensity for simply not considering that the forces of Darkness might work successfully against her, I disagree that this kind of blunder is outside of her character. She often just doesn't think of what could go wrong, and that is the problem here - a lack of preparation for contingencies that could be anticipated.

 

But I agree that it is out of character for Birgitte, or maybe Morgase or Dyelin not to have thought of it.

[fionwe1987]

 

Thanks. That is enough to go by. It could be that the single Kin member left may not have been strong enough to do even a small Gateway. However from the description of her healing and torching trollocs seems to suggest she was strong enogh to make a small Gatway as you suggest. If that is true than BS screwed up. Good catch.

There's actually a better quote where someone talks about some AS being only strong enough to make a Gateway you could put your hand through.

 

And yeah, if a woman can burn six Trollocs at once, I think she can make a Gateway the size of a coin at least. And that's all you need. Then you project your voice through it and yell out that Caemlyn is under attack.

 

And with another of the Kin alive initially, they should definitely have been able to make one big enough to put their hand through.

 

The worst thing is, Brandon/Team Jordan actually had a ready alternate explanation. Extent the range of the BT Dreamspike, and your job is done. That would even have let Brandon have 15-20 Kin kick ass for a time in battle, then be forced to consider a retreat with Talmanes because they're exhausted and there's just too many Trollocs.

[Suttree]

Given Elayne's propensity for simply not considering that the forces of Darkness might work successfully against her, I disagree that this kind of blunder is outside of her character. She often just doesn't think of what could go wrong, and that is the problem here - a lack of preparation for contingencies that could be anticipated.

 

But I agree that it is out of character for Birgitte, or maybe Morgase or Dyelin not to have thought of it.

 

Are you referencing the DF take down in WH? In retrospect there wasn't much wrong with her plan. She acted on all available info to hand and needed to take swift action when she did. She neatly linked to make sure the DF in there midst couldn't channel and they didn't have any other channeling resources to use. It took an unbelivably unlucky sequence of events for things to go wrong.

[XoMeltdownoX]

 

Thanks. That is enough to go by. It could be that the single Kin member left may not have been strong enough to do even a small Gateway. However from the description of her healing and torching trollocs seems to suggest she was strong enogh to make a small Gatway as you suggest. If that is true than BS screwed up. Good catch.

There's actually a better quote where someone talks about some AS being only strong enough to make a Gateway you could put your hand through.

 

And yeah, if a woman can burn six Trollocs at once, I think she can make a Gateway the size of a coin at least. And that's all you need. Then you project your voice through it and yell out that Caemlyn is under attack.

 

And with another of the Kin alive initially, they should definitely have been able to make one big enough to put their hand through.

 

The worst thing is, Brandon/Team Jordan actually had a ready alternate explanation. Extent the range of the BT Dreamspike, and your job is done. That would even have let Brandon have 15-20 Kin kick ass for a time in battle, then be forced to consider a retreat with Talmanes because they're exhausted and there's just too many Trollocs.

Strongly agree with the last part.

[fionwe1987]

Given Elayne's propensity for simply not considering that the forces of Darkness might work successfully against her, I disagree that this kind of blunder is outside of her character. She often just doesn't think of what could go wrong, and that is the problem here - a lack of preparation for contingencies that could be anticipated.

 

But I agree that it is out of character for Birgitte, or maybe Morgase or Dyelin not to have thought of it.

Elayne's problem, if it can be called such, is to not consider somewhat unlikely scenarios that could leave her defeated in personal conflicts with the Shadow. She, somewhat justifiably, thinks well of her ability to channel. But this has never translated to the running of Andor. She's as responsible and sensible as you can expect when it comes to that. This total lackof thought is not in character for her at all.

[Neophyte]

Given Elayne's propensity for simply not considering that the forces of Darkness might work successfully against her, I disagree that this kind of blunder is outside of her character. She often just doesn't think of what could go wrong, and that is the problem here - a lack of preparation for contingencies that could be anticipated.

 

But I agree that it is out of character for Birgitte, or maybe Morgase or Dyelin not to have thought of it.

 

Are you referencing the DF take down in WH? In retrospect there wasn't much wrong with her plan. She acted on all available info to hand and needed to take swift action when she did. She neatly linked to make sure the DF in there midst couldn't channel and they didn't have any other channeling resources to use. It took an unbelivably unlucky sequence of events for things to go wrong.

 

That plan wasn't actually that great, because of one thing - she didn't anticipate that it could go wrong. Elayne is good at coming up with initial strategies, but not good at dealing with contingencies.

 

Her two adventures in ToM are perfect examples. Impersonating one of the Forsaken to get information was not a bad idea. Doing it on the spur of the moment without backup waiting in the wings was nuts. Baiting the most powerful Cairhienin lords into giving the throne of Cairhien was a good idea. Assuming she didn't need security to check the palace first was not a good idea.

 

Elayne comes up with a very good initial idea, then assumes nothing will go wrong, and so doesn't plan for contingencies.

 

In both of those situations, Birgitte bailed her out - in the case of Cairhien by assuming that something could go wrong and preparing for it. That's what Birgitte should have done here.

 

 

Elayne's problem, if it can be called such, is to not consider somewhat unlikely scenarios that could leave her defeated in personal conflicts with the Shadow. She, somewhat justifiably, thinks well of her ability to channel. But this has never translated to the running of Andor. She's as responsible and sensible as you can expect when it comes to that. This total lackof thought is not in character for her at all.

 

How is her personal safety not a direct factor in "the running of Andor?" In a monarchial system, the safety of the monarch is one of the paramount interests of the state.

 

I am not saying that Elayne is stupid. She is very intelligent in many ways. But there are some holes in her way of thinking - she assumes that her plans will work, and doesn't prepare for the things that could (and often do) go wrong.

 

She's like a good strategist who forgets that a great plan of attack lasts right up until the first arrow flies. I am confident that she will grow out of it. But right now, she simply doesn't bother to plan for contingencies.

[fionwe1987]

How is her personal safety not a direct factor in "the running of Andor?" In a monarchial system, the safety of the monarch is one of the paramount interests of the state.

Yes, but this is a thing Egwene, Rand and Elayne have all struggled with. It has nothing to do with stupidity, and everything to do with youth and amazing OP capabilities. They all have a little bit of the "I'm invincible" complex, and it takes them time to overcome that. But that isn;t reason to think they'll treat those they're responsible for in the same way. Indeed, we can come up with hundreds of instances of exactly the opposite for Elayne.

I am not saying that Elayne is stupid. She is very intelligent in many ways. But there are some holes in her way of thinking - she assumes that her plans will work, and doesn't prepare for the things that could (and often do) go wrong.

And her advisers also similar lost their marbles?

She's like a good strategist who forgets that a great plan of attack lasts right up until the first arrow flies. I am confident that she will grow out of it. But right now, she simply doesn't bother to plan for contingencies.

Nonsense. The kind of contingencies you're asking her to plan for are precisely the kind generals don't waste their time with, because there are any number of them and no way to tell which one of them will occur. At some point, you have to toss the dice.

[David Selig]

The worst thing is, Brandon/Team Jordan actually had a ready alternate explanation. Extent the range of the BT Dreamspike, and your job is done. That would even have let Brandon have 15-20 Kin kick ass for a time in battle, then be forced to consider a retreat with Talmanes because they're exhausted and there's just too many Trollocs.

Yeah, this is the really annoying part for me. There was an obvious, easier, less contrived and more elegant way to make this plotline work better.

 

Her two adventures in ToM are perfect examples. Impersonating one of the Forsaken to get information was not a bad idea. Doing it on the spur of the moment without backup waiting in the wings was nuts.

Not true. There were guards and Kinwomen right outside the cell.

[Suttree]

The worst thing is, Brandon/Team Jordan actually had a ready alternate explanation. Extent the range of the BT Dreamspike, and your job is done. That would even have let Brandon have 15-20 Kin kick ass for a time in battle, then be forced to consider a retreat with Talmanes because they're exhausted and there's just too many Trollocs.

Yeah, this is the really annoying part for me. There was an obvious, easier, less contrived and more elegant way to make this plotline work better.

 

Oh come on now David, stop being a Brandon hater and bashing his work. It is ludicrious of you to pick on these small details. Elegant plot work doesn't matter, it's just fantasy after all. As someone said earlier in the Brandon thread when railing against people who critique his work "Very few people sit at home and think "I'm looking forward to the next Wheel of Time book because I want to see some great writing technique."

[Mario Cole]

Geez, they're going to the last battle, and have portals, might as well bring everyone.... of course why leave the dragons and half the Band behind then... damn now I'm doing it...

[Neophyte]

How is her personal safety not a direct factor in "the running of Andor?" In a monarchial system, the safety of the monarch is one of the paramount interests of the state.

Yes, but this is a thing Egwene, Rand and Elayne have all struggled with. It has nothing to do with stupidity, and everything to do with youth and amazing OP capabilities. They all have a little bit of the "I'm invincible" complex, and it takes them time to overcome that. But that isn;t reason to think they'll treat those they're responsible for in the same way. Indeed, we can come up with hundreds of instances of exactly the opposite for Elayne.

 

They won't intentionally treat those for whom they are responsible in the same way. But when Elayne puts herself at risk, confident in her abilities and Min's vision of her personal safety, others often pay the price. Such is the nature of leadership.

 

 

I am not saying that Elayne is stupid. She is very intelligent in many ways. But there are some holes in her way of thinking - she assumes that her plans will work, and doesn't prepare for the things that could (and often do) go wrong.

And her advisers also similar lost their marbles?

 

I believe I stated quite clearly that it was out of character for them to have dropped the ball this way, Birgitte in particular.

 

 

Nonsense. The kind of contingencies you're asking her to plan for are precisely the kind generals don't waste their time with, because there are any number of them and no way to tell which one of them will occur. At some point, you have to toss the dice.

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you made that claim in a room of military folks. With most plans, there does indeed come a point where you have to "toss the dice." That point is after you've wracked your brain to try to anticipate every possible thing that could go wrong, planned for it, and then thrown in a couple of extra backups for the things you know you can't anticipate. You "toss the dice" after you've done everything in your power to load them in your favor.

 

But more importantly, this wasn't a spur of the moment thing. Elayne and her advisers had lots of time to plan for this meeting. This wasn't a case where they had to "toss the dice" and hope for the best. They had intelligence that an attack was planned, time to prepare, and resources to spare. They simply failed to use them adequately.

[78WARLOCK]

My 2 cents on the seals...Perrin agrees with Rand that they need to be broken. In his words,"it feels right" he has a brief argument with Fail concerning them.

[fionwe1987]

They won't intentionally treat those for whom they are responsible in the same way. But when Elayne puts herself at risk, confident in her abilities and Min's vision of her personal safety, others often pay the price. Such is the nature of leadership.

Go find me an instance of Elayne being cavalier and unthining when other's lives are clearly at stake, why don't you?

 

 

I believe I stated quite clearly that it was out of character for them to have dropped the ball this way, Birgitte in particular.

Its out of character for Elayne too.

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you made that claim in a room of military folks. With most plans, there does indeed come a point where you have to "toss the dice." That point is after you've wracked your brain to try to anticipate every possible thing that could go wrong, planned for it, and then thrown in a couple of extra backups for the things you know you can't anticipate. You "toss the dice" after you've done everything in your power to load them in your favor.

Oh really? When you find the military commander who anticipates enemies having weapons no one has ever heard of, then come to me. Or how about anticipating that an escape attempt will be made at the exact moment of your interrogating somone, an attempt savvy enough to tackle three channelers and several guards?

 

Those are the kind of contingencies no one prepares for.

But more importantly, this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

Exactly. This is totally unlike the two cases we're discussing of Elayne's supposed lack of planning. In fact, this is something we do see her plan for in ToM, with Birgette and Dyelin. No one anticipates an attack on Caemlyn directly, which was kind of silly. But even giving them that, leaving exactly one set of people capable of making Gateways is a level of stupidity I guarantee you won't find another instance of from Elayne.

Elayne and her advisers had lots of time to plan for this meeting. This wasn't a case where they had to "toss the dice" and hope for the best. They had intelligence that an attack was planned, time to prepare, and resources to spare. They simply failed to use them adequately.

No. The author and Team Jordan failed to let them use their brains.

[78WARLOCK]

Please quote where any channeler makes a small Gateway other than Androl. I simply do not remember any.

We haven't seen one, but we have been told they can be made:

 

The sisters with the strength to make gateways had all been in Salidar long enough to know it well. Those who could weave a gateway of useful size were able to Travel almost anywhere from there, and land right on the spot.

Thanks. That is enough to go by. It could be that the single Kin member left may not have been strong enough to do even a small Gateway. However from the description of her healing and torching trollocs seems to suggest she was strong enogh to make a small Gatway as you suggest. If that is true than BS screwed up. Good catch.

Androl can make large gateways. Taim (m'hael ) tells Rand about it and is amazed at his ability.Saying it's about the only thing he has a talent for with the power.

[mccullough]

Okay, now that the full prologue is revealed, I thought I'd spend a little time on jotting down my full thoughts. Overall I really enjoyed the prologue--a big step up from our previous pre-release material. Admittedly there were some things I didn't like, some quite deeply, but the vast majority I enjoyed in full. So, thoughts....

 

 

 

Dislike

 

Well, the above probably touch on two dislikes, and in terms of Hessalam the ugliness of her new body seemed childish of the Dark One, and the degree of it seemed poorly thought out. Beyond that the normal litany--clunky prose, OOC exclamations that are made for no other reason than to allow another character (Moridin) to tell them what for, and that general sense that your nose is being rubbed in the page.

 

 

I thought it was quite fitting considering what the Dark One did to Balthamel/Aran'gar. Taking something that was so ingrained in a character's persona and turning it on its head really worked for me.

[Neophyte]

Go find me an instance of Elayne being cavalier and unthining when other's lives are clearly at stake, why don't you?

 

You're missing the point. It's not about when other's lives are clearly at stake. It's about understanding that, if you're the Queen, other's lives are always at stake.

 

 

Its out of character for Elayne too.

 

Is not. Now you say "is too!" Or we could deal in examples, which I did.

 

 

Oh really? When you find the military commander who anticipates enemies having weapons no one has ever heard of, then come to me. Or how about anticipating that an escape attempt will be made at the exact moment of your interrogating somone, an attempt savvy enough to tackle three channelers and several guards?

 

Those are the kind of contingencies no one prepares for.

 

Everything involved in the attack on Caemlyn could have been anticipated. Even if she didn't know the specific method that the Shadow would use to get the troops there, she knows for a fact that something is coming. So this isn't a case of "enemies having weapons no one has ever heard of." The fact that the specific method of the attack was unknown should have made her more cautious about leaving Caemlyn exposed.

 

And contingency planning includes planning reserves for things you can't anticipate. Reserve forces in case of the unknown. For example, if you know that an attack is coming (Chesmal told her it was), but you don't know exactly where or how (even though the only place in Andor really worth striking is Caemlyn, so you can figure it will be there), you don't commit yourself completely on another front (taking effectively all your forces to the Field of Merrilor) especially when that is unnecessary (15-20 extra Kin will make no difference there).

 

Those are the exactly the kind of contingencies that leaders have a duty to plan for.

 

 

Exactly. This is totally unlike the two cases we're discussing of Elayne's supposed lack of planning. In fact, this is something we do see her plan for in ToM, with Birgette and Dyelin. No one anticipates an attack on Caemlyn directly, which was kind of silly. But even giving them that, leaving exactly one set of people capable of making Gateways is a level of stupidity I guarantee you won't find another instance of from Elayne.

 

Traveling directly into the basement - bypassing the guards who were not aware that she was there - to pose as one of the Forsaken and personally interrogate the prisoners was foolhardy in every way, shape, and form. She did it on the spur of the moment, because it occurred to her, putting herself at risk without informing anyone. She deliberately hid it from Birgitte and her guards. There is a reason that dangerous prisoners are kept securely, and that there are protocols for seeing them. They had every reason to believe that the Shadow would attempt to either free or kill their prisoners, as that sort of thing had happened before. For Elayne to be in there, alone, with no one aware of her plan or whereabouts was stupidity of the highest order.

 

And to assume that no one in Cairhien would take action to oppose her taking the crown was also foolhardy. The threat there could have been anticipated, as it was - by Birgitte.

 

 

No. The author and Team Jordan failed to let them use their brains.

 

In the case of Birgitte, and perhaps Morgase and Dyelin, I agree with that assessment, as I have already said. It is out of character for them to miss something like this. For Elayne, however, it fits a pattern.

[Elan Tedronai]

I have just got hold of the prologue and after shifting it in 10 miutes all i can say is thank god i didnt waste any money on it.

Nothing new has been learnt apart from graendal's punishment.

 

the rest of the stuff was basic regurgitation. Easily the worst prologue since book 7

[TootThatHorn]

I have just got hold of the prologue and after shifting it in 10 miutes all i can say is thank god i didnt waste any money on it.

Nothing new has been learnt apart from graendal's punishment.

 

the rest of the stuff was basic regurgitation. Easily the worst prologue since book 7

 

You got blinders on.

[b3arz3rg3r]

They won't intentionally treat those for whom they are responsible in the same way. But when Elayne puts herself at risk, confident in her abilities and Min's vision of her personal safety, others often pay the price. Such is the nature of leadership.

Go find me an instance of Elayne being cavalier and unthining when other's lives are clearly at stake, why don't you?

 

 

I believe I stated quite clearly that it was out of character for them to have dropped the ball this way, Birgitte in particular.

Its out of character for Elayne too.

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall when you made that claim in a room of military folks. With most plans, there does indeed come a point where you have to "toss the dice." That point is after you've wracked your brain to try to anticipate every possible thing that could go wrong, planned for it, and then thrown in a couple of extra backups for the things you know you can't anticipate. You "toss the dice" after you've done everything in your power to load them in your favor.

Oh really? When you find the military commander who anticipates enemies having weapons no one has ever heard of, then come to me. Or how about anticipating that an escape attempt will be made at the exact moment of your interrogating somone, an attempt savvy enough to tackle three channelers and several guards?

 

Those are the kind of contingencies no one prepares for.

But more importantly, this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

Exactly. This is totally unlike the two cases we're discussing of Elayne's supposed lack of planning. In fact, this is something we do see her plan for in ToM, with Birgette and Dyelin. No one anticipates an attack on Caemlyn directly, which was kind of silly. But even giving them that, leaving exactly one set of people capable of making Gateways is a level of stupidity I guarantee you won't find another instance of from Elayne.

Elayne and her advisers had lots of time to plan for this meeting. This wasn't a case where they had to "toss the dice" and hope for the best. They had intelligence that an attack was planned, time to prepare, and resources to spare. They simply failed to use them adequately.

No. The author and Team Jordan failed to let them use their brains.

 

Nah, Elayne has a track record of such things. Her plans were always extremely naive, she has no idea of what it means to minimize risk and is utterly devoid of any killer instinct. Case in point when she went to apprehend the Black Sisters in WH she had access to over a hundred channellers and she went there together with three Aes Sedai one of which she knew would be another DF so at best the numbers were even. And then instead of knocking them out as quickly as possible she tried to interrogate them on the spot. Result two dead Aes Sedai and her only surviving because of her plotshield.

 

Same with her treatment of those captured black sisters. I get that she wants to interrogate them, but why doesn't she just still them? She'd seen with Amico how much losing the ability to channel breaks resistence. As long as they are able to channel they are a permanent threat which require special attention. Still them and they are just regular women. Well, Cadsuane is guilty of the same error, actually even worse when she doesn't still Semirhage.

And why didn't Mellar get executed shortly after he was captured? He was a proven darkfriend as well.

 

As for Birgitte and Dyelin. Birgitte has said plenty of times that she isn't a good general, she's an experienced soldier, but she's aware of her weakness in planning strategies and Dyelin would never try to advise Elayne on anything regarding channelling. If Elayne thought four Kin would be enough she wouldn't inquire about their strength and possible redundancies etc.

 

By the way does anyone know whether Elayne is even aware of the fact that Shadowspawn can't survive Gateways? Cause if she isn't there would have been no reason to assume Caemlyn is safe no matter how secure she believed the Waygate to be.