[ADVANCED] WOT Mafia: The Great Hunt - GAME OVER!

[Nolder]

My assumption on your character was wrong hmmm

[Nolder]

No, that's not what I meant, what I meant, is well, in the story, my character had friends, but they were different... don't want to go to deep into it.

Loial didn't really have any Ogier friends as far as I can recall, although you could consider Rand & Co as "different" I suppose

 

 

OK, first of all, why would I have brought this up if I was mafia.

 

Second of all, my character isn't exactly a normal human.

Loial isn't a human at all

 

Still leaning on you being a liar I think

[Nolder]

Before this whole debacle I had a slight town read on Rand so I think I'm going to let this go for now and go after the big fish

 

Unvote Rand

[Nolder]

Some of you may remember that if I bother to keep tabs on people at all what I like to do is start them at zero and as the game progresses give them +1 when they say or do something I consider townie and -1 if I think they say or did something scummy

 

Des currently has a -7 in my notes

I am feeling very confident he's scum

 

Vote Des

[Nightstrike]

Vote Turin . He and EP seems to be provocative and vague. Doesn't seem like genuine scum hunting techniques to me. More like something that's disguised as it.

[hazelkrs1]

The first neighborizer's ability failed when used on GF.

 

My neighborizing ability failed when used last night on Rand.

 

I wasn't informed why, there is the possibility that I could have been blocked, except considering that both me and the previous neighborizer were told we would fail when our abilities were used on certain people I am heavily suspicious of both players.

 

Just wanted to clarify something really quick:

 

N1 the Neighborizer targets GF, fails

 

N2 the Neighborizer targets you, pulls you into a QT

 

As a result of being an Absorber, you gain the abilty to Neighborize someone once

 

You then use this ability... N2 as well? You were allowed to use the power you absorbed the same night you got it?

 

 

 

Why does no one else find this a little sketchy?

 

Nolder, you have done stranger things as town

Like get himself lynched on purpose?

As the doctor, if I remember correctly. *nods*

 

Seems like two people working together here. Kae even links herself to EP later (I'll get there in a mo)

 

But basically, you sign up for the games in the sign up threads (which I don't think there are any going on right now...we need to do some poking... :D)

Because some people are letting their games dragon on forever

 

I just HATE it when mods let their games Dragon on too long

 

 

...

 

 

Let's stick to this game yeah?

 

It's called meta, Nolder.

 

Vote Nolder for not believing Rand's claim, which no scum in their right mind would claim, and basically asking me and EP to ignore his past meta of doing stranger things when he was town, and a power role for town at that. Strange behaviour all around.

 

So much ping in this post.

 

1. Kae fished pretty hard for a reveal at first, although Rand was being woefully obtuse about it, but either way considering the nature of Rand's reveal, Kae really has no idea whether or not Nol would have reason to disbelieve the claim.

 

2. Although a past move of Nol's was brought up, no one ever really claimed that Nol was off his meta. For Kae to act like he was trying to arrest talk of his meta, which had never really happened, is pretty sketchy

 

3. Incidentally, if Kae's claim is that Nol's meta is to act strange with town power roles he has had, I would say you have the wrong person completely. Unless, that is, EP and Nolder switched accounts when I wasn't looking. One strange play does NOT equal the totality of someone's meta.

 

4. Kae links herself to EP. Scummy no matter how you slice it.

 

5. She added a superfluous U. Obviously mafia.

 

6. "no scum in their right mind would claim". Only scum deal in absolutes.

 

/Obi Wan'd

 

Vote Kae

[hazelkrs1]

As for Rand's sloppy reveal, I had to put my two cents in.

 

Character hints/breadcrumbs really aren't that great of an idea imo. Mafia can breadcrumb a fake claim just as easily as a townie can breadcrumb a real role, and hinting instead of revealing really only gives mafia some wiggle room to slip out of a corner if they have to.

 

For instance:

 

What's the point Rand? If a big group already figured it out why be secretive? All it does is allow mafia to act buddy buddy with you by defending you.

 

Full reveal it or you are now spreading WIFOM.

 

OK you have a point. For those of you who didnt figure this out I am Loial.

 

I figured there was a chance you were Loial, but honestly I thought it far more likely you were hinting at Perrin.

 

Not quite human? Perrin is human, but also a Wolfbrother. Loial isn't human at all

 

"Different" friends? Perrin has the wolves. Loial is somewhat of an outlier for an Ogier, and doesn't really have any friends that are talked about. He's friends with the ta'veren, but so is Perrin.

 

Important role in TGH? I'd say Perrin has Loial beat by a long shot

 

The "big, huge" hint? Well, I'll give it to you that Loial fits this better than Perrin, but Perrin is still described as being pretty stout.

 

 

So not only were you causing more confusion with the town Rand, but you were also being ambiguous enough with your hints that someone could have easily gotten the wrong idea. I had a town read on you before, so I think you just botched this a bit, but for future reference just skip the hinting and go straight to the reveal if you plan on hinting at all. If you don't want to reveal too early, try giving other reasons for town to not vote you, like case others and such.

 

Some of you may remember that if I bother to keep tabs on people at all what I like to do is start them at zero and as the game progresses give them +1 when they say or do something I consider townie and -1 if I think they say or did something scummy

 

Des currently has a -7 in my notes

I am feeling very confident he's scum

 

Vote Des

 

I didn't know you had a system like that. It's somewhat interesting, in the sense that it's better than a spreadsheet with notes all over the place, but it still seems pretty flawed. Active players are going to show up a lot more on it, so your system won't really do a great job of catching lurking scum. Plus, many things can seem situationally scummy at the time, but in retrospect can be clever moves in disguise or something.

 

Either way, I find it kinda funny how often numbers have been used against me in mafia, in somewhat silly applications. BG was "87.5%" sure I was scum once, if I remember the number right. I was town. Someone (EP mebbe?) said I was mafia to the tenth degree. Red one time said when she had a read on me, she was right 9/10 times. Yeah, pretty much every one of those examples was far off lol.

 

 

Anyhoo, for you feeling "very confident" that I'm scum, you're gonna have to back it up with some evidence. Point out the 7 times I said antitown stuff, or the 10 times minus the 3 protown posts, or however you want to break it down. Just assigning a number to me is pretty lazy casing imo

[Nolder]

I didn't know you had a system like that. It's somewhat interesting, in the sense that it's better than a spreadsheet with notes all over the place, but it still seems pretty flawed. Active players are going to show up a lot more on it, so your system won't really do a great job of catching lurking scum. Plus, many things can seem situationally scummy at the time, but in retrospect can be clever moves in disguise or something.

I don't bring it up too often

Mostly because I only tend to use it during big rereads anyway unless I'm casing a specific person

 

Either way, I find it kinda funny how often numbers have been used against me in mafia, in somewhat silly applications. BG was "87.5%" sure I was scum once, if I remember the number right. I was town. Someone (EP mebbe?) said I was mafia to the tenth degree. Red one time said when she had a read on me, she was right 9/10 times. Yeah, pretty much every one of those examples was far off lol.

I only brought the number up so people would understand why I felt so confident

 

Anyhoo, for you feeling "very confident" that I'm scum, you're gonna have to back it up with some evidence. Point out the 7 times I said antitown stuff, or the 10 times minus the 3 protown posts, or however you want to break it down. Just assigning a number to me is pretty lazy casing imo

I'll make a point or two later if it turns out to be necessary

I will note that one or two points of scuminess came through your association with others

It appears that Turin picked up on the same things I did

[dicetosser1]

so digging for info is not good GF? why? mind you im still trying to figure out what it was i "dug so hard for".

 

 

I still have a problem with GF but i also have large concerns over Shinori and all this neighbourizer stuff is exacerbating it. haven't decide who i am going to vote tho i am concerned about those who didnt pick up on rands breadcrumbs as even I got it for once!

 

 

have to go see mum in hospital again so will be missing most of the day but will be back tomorrow night

[lolguy26]

concerning GF all i know is that there are "books surrounding him".

[Nolder]

Are you Min?

[hazelkrs1]

I didn't know you had a system like that. It's somewhat interesting, in the sense that it's better than a spreadsheet with notes all over the place, but it still seems pretty flawed. Active players are going to show up a lot more on it, so your system won't really do a great job of catching lurking scum. Plus, many things can seem situationally scummy at the time, but in retrospect can be clever moves in disguise or something.

I don't bring it up too often

Mostly because I only tend to use it during big rereads anyway unless I'm casing a specific person

 

I'm still not sure it's that efficient of a system. After all, wouldn't you agree that ONE post that makes a blatant scum slip or overtly scummy move has more weight than like 3 or 4 posts that might be minor pings? If there is some kind of grading system, I can understand it, but if it's +1 or -1 either way, it seems like a very flawed system.

 

Either way, I find it kinda funny how often numbers have been used against me in mafia, in somewhat silly applications. BG was "87.5%" sure I was scum once, if I remember the number right. I was town. Someone (EP mebbe?) said I was mafia to the tenth degree. Red one time said when she had a read on me, she was right 9/10 times. Yeah, pretty much every one of those examples was far off lol.

I only brought the number up so people would understand why I felt so confident

 

This kind of proves my point exactly. First of all, I know myself to be town. Yet your number system by your own words seems to make me seem overtly scummy. And incidentally, since everyone now hearing of this system doesn't really have any idea of scale or anything, they don't really know if -7 is somewhat significant, or extremely significant.

 

At least if someone says "This person ranks about an 8 on my scumdar", people generally take that to mean on a scale of 1-10.

 

But in your case, Peace for instance could have been, I dunno, a -3 or something, yet he seemed obviously scummy to me. Conversely, he could have been like a -17 in your system, which I guess would make more sense in how it pertains to me. You see my point?

 

Anyhoo, for you feeling "very confident" that I'm scum, you're gonna have to back it up with some evidence. Point out the 7 times I said antitown stuff, or the 10 times minus the 3 protown posts, or however you want to break it down. Just assigning a number to me is pretty lazy casing imo

I'll make a point or two later if it turns out to be necessary

I will note that one or two points of scuminess came through your association with others

It appears that Turin picked up on the same things I did

 

Association with whom, if you don't mind me asking? Seems like it could have easily been a ploy on their part to try and link themselves to me to make me look worse should they flip scum.

 

Peace for instance, tried buddying up to me at one point. EP seems to have as well, and Nightstrike qualifies for this even more so.

 

Yet none of that necessarily has to do with my behavior or alignment.

 

concerning GF all i know is that there are "books surrounding him".

 

 

Eh?

 

Are you Min?

 

Well that's pretty blatant fishing Nol. Haven't we forced enough reveals this game?

[hazelkrs1]

Oh, and I forgot to mention a few posts ago Nol, that was an awesome link to that mafia source, about the "No True Scotsman" thing. A much more concise way of putting what I've tried telling people before

[lolguy26]

Are you Min?

 

maybe maybe not

[Nolder]

I'm still not sure it's that efficient of a system. After all, wouldn't you agree that ONE post that makes a blatant scum slip or overtly scummy move has more weight than like 3 or 4 posts that might be minor pings? If there is some kind of grading system, I can understand it, but if it's +1 or -1 either way, it seems like a very flawed system.

Of course

Why do you think I voted Rand

He had a +1 at the time I voted him

I don't ignore what happens in the game

I use this as a guideline to keep track of people I'm suspicious of

 

This kind of proves my point exactly. First of all, I know myself to be town. Yet your number system by your own words seems to make me seem overtly scummy. And incidentally, since everyone now hearing of this system doesn't really have any idea of scale or anything, they don't really know if -7 is somewhat significant, or extremely significant.

 

At least if someone says "This person ranks about an 8 on my scumdar", people generally take that to mean on a scale of 1-10.

 

But in your case, Peace for instance could have been, I dunno, a -3 or something, yet he seemed obviously scummy to me. Conversely, he could have been like a -17 in your system, which I guess would make more sense in how it pertains to me. You see my point?

There is no weight to the numbers

Every instance of scuminess or towniness is treated equally

A lot of people never even get a rank on the list

They just sit at zero because I can't decide whether I'm suspicious or if I trust them

To give you a better idea of why -7 is significant, most people don't break 3 in either direction

Right now I have two people sitting at -3, four people at -1, Rand at +1, and someone at +3

 

Association with whom, if you don't mind me asking? Seems like it could have easily been a ploy on their part to try and link themselves to me to make me look worse should they flip scum.

I think I'll keep that to myself for now

 

 

Are you Min?

 

Well that's pretty blatant fishing Nol. Haven't we forced enough reveals this game?

I thought we just got done explaining why hinting is generally a bad idea?

[Nolder]

Oh, and I forgot to mention a few posts ago Nol, that was an awesome link to that mafia source, about the "No True Scotsman" thing. A much more concise way of putting what I've tried telling people before

I try to include logic when at all possible

Despite mafia being a game traditionally about logic and deduction most games sorely lack both of those things

[Nolder]

Are you Min?

maybe maybe not

I don't currently suspect you of being mafia so here's a tip for you

Your statement was absolutely pointless at best

 

If your intention was to help GF you likely only made things worse because from the towns POV you made a vague statement that could mean any number of things

If your intention was to be informative you flat out failed

What does books surrounding someone mean? I don't know, I doubt anyone else knows, I'm guessing even you don't know if you're even telling the truth

 

Now what you're left with is more confusion and suspicion

People are wondering why you did that and what role you could be hinting at

Even if I hadn't said anything you have to assume the mafia see your hints and know exactly what they mean as a "worst case scenario" measure

 

Next time don't say anything unless you have something meaningful and tangible to say

Anything else usually brings you a step closer to being killed

[lolguy26]

Are you Min?

maybe maybe not

I don't currently suspect you of being mafia so here's a tip for you

Your statement was absolutely pointless at best

 

If your intention was to help GF you likely only made things worse because from the towns POV you made a vague statement that could mean any number of things

If your intention was to be informative you flat out failed

What does books surrounding someone mean? I don't know, I doubt anyone else knows, I'm guessing even you don't know if you're even telling the truth

 

Now what you're left with is more confusion and suspicion

People are wondering why you did that and what role you could be hinting at

Even if I hadn't said anything you have to assume the mafia see your hints and know exactly what they mean as a "worst case scenario" measure

 

Next time don't say anything unless you have something meaningful and tangible to say

Anything else usually brings you a step closer to being killed

so when i try to be helpful i get my self into tangled mess and when i dont say anything im still in a tangled mess

 

btw every word i said was true and i gave you guys what i know i suspect its vernin but whether she's town or mafia i dont know (but i suspect its town because she helped mat in the book*sort off*)

[Nolder]

so when i try to be helpful i get my self into tangled mess and when i dont say anything im still in a tangled mess

The trick is saying things that are actually helpful

Don't worry about it too much

It's something all of us struggle with

 

btw every word i said was true

We can't know that it's true though you know?

 

and i gave you guys what i know i suspect its vernin but whether she's town or mafia i dont know (but i suspect its town because she helped mat in the book*sort off*)

See books make me think of Loial (bookish) and maybe Rand (prophecies of the dragon among other things)

Not Verin

Verin could make sense since she's a brown but there are other options out there and that's why this information isn't very helpful

It comes from an untrustworthy source and could mean multiple things

[Nolder]

Not trying to pick on you man just trying to help you be a better player

[lolguy26]

so when i try to be helpful i get my self into tangled mess and when i dont say anything im still in a tangled mess

The trick is saying things that are actually helpful

Don't worry about it too much

It's something all of us struggle with

 

btw every word i said was true

We can't know that it's true though you know?

 

and i gave you guys what i know i suspect its vernin but whether she's town or mafia i dont know (but i suspect its town because she helped mat in the book*sort off*)

See books make me think of Loial (bookish) and maybe Rand (prophecies of the dragon among other things)

Not Verin

Verin could make sense since she's a brown but there are other options out there and that's why this information isn't very helpful

It comes from an untrustworthy source and could mean multiple things

well thats why i dont say much :pout: anyway i know rand's is "red blood on black stones"

[lolguy26]

Not trying to pick on you man just trying to help you be a better player

 

i get it, but still

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Where to begin?

 

Vote LZM.

 

Have to return to the self voter and see if he really wants to live.

[Nolder]

Where to begin?

 

Vote LZM.

 

Have to return to the self voter and see if he really wants to live.

For what it's worth he did the same thing in a game I was in with him not too long ago and was town

[Sakaea]

Des, you are too funny. Why do you always think I'm scum? Oh, wait, I always think you're scum too....*examines this*

 

Oh well, never mind. As usual.

 

"Books surrounding him" sounds like Verin to me. Which makes me trust GF only slightly more.

 

Nolder, the thing with the meta comment was I thought it was weird for you to say to stick to this game when it seemed to me you were defending someone who could be doing something not quite as bad as something you had done in a past game.

 

I was not linking myself to EP, we just both happened to be in that part of the conversation.

 

And I guessed wrong on Rand's character too

 

Unvote for now, not sure where I'm going with this.