Could the Wheel work without the DO?/ Is Elan backing the wrong horse?

[Zorlon]

In both ages we've seen anything much of it was the DO which served as the agent of change that brought about the end of one age, and ushered in the next.

 

As far as we know, in at least those two ages, if not in all of them, it is always the DO causing trouble and ushering one age into the next.

 

Seems like without his intervention things would pretty much keep going in one upward direction. For all the talk about the DO wanting to break the Wheel it seems like he is the one keeping things moving in the prescribed circle.

 

If he one day decided to quit the game before a Bore is drilled in some future version of the 2nd Age, then would something else happen to end that AoL and usher in a Third Age? Or would it just keep going like it's been going?

 

If it's the former, then what do you imagine that thing being?

 

And if it's the latter, then it certainly seems like Elan's picked the wrong team if ending the Eternal Cycle is his true goal.

[Barid Bel Medar]

1. I don't think it would be possible for the DO to quit the game. It would be like telling a fish not to swim (and the DO is a very big fish, nobody could force him to stop). It is simply the DO's nature to try and destroy the Pattern.

 

That is why Elan turned, because eventually the DO must win, mathematically speaking. The DO will continue to try and destroy the Pattern until the end of Time.

 

Of course, if he did stop trying, Elan's logic would fail, and it would be a bad decision. But I don't think that he is wrong in this case. I can't see the DO ever being permanently defeated, or giving up his quest to destroy the Pattern.

[Dagon Thyne]

In both ages we've seen anything much of it was the DO which served as the agent of change that brought about the end of one age, and ushered in the next.

 

As far as we know, in at least those two ages, if not in all of them, it is always the DO causing trouble and ushering one age into the next.

 

Seems like without his intervention things would pretty much keep going in one upward direction. For all the talk about the DO wanting to break the Wheel it seems like he is the one keeping things moving in the prescribed circle.

 

If he one day decided to quit the game before a Bore is drilled in some future version of the 2nd Age, then would something else happen to end that AoL and usher in a Third Age? Or would it just keep going like it's been going?

 

If it's the former, then what do you imagine that thing being?

 

And if it's the latter, then it certainly seems like Elan's picked the wrong team if ending the Eternal Cycle is his true goal.

 

 

Well I have had the theory for a while now that the DO is not evil, but just the bringer of destruction. He ushers the end of each age, and the creator remakes the world.

 

The DO and Creator are nature itself. Two extremes....One dark, and destructive and one light and creative.

[Zorlon]

 

 

Well I have had the theory for a while now that the DO is not evil, but just the bringer of destruction. He ushers the end of each age, and the creator remakes the world.

 

The DO and Creator are nature itself. Two extremes....One dark, and destructive and one light and creative.

I like this. It seems to fit with what's written repeatedly about the DO's powers being strongest at Dusk and Dawn, rather than midnight. And strongest at the edge of shadows, rather than in their deepest recess.

[Clouded]

1. I don't think it would be possible for the DO to quit the game. It would be like telling a fish not to swim (and the DO is a very big fish, nobody could force him to stop). It is simply the DO's nature to try and destroy the Pattern.

 

That is why Elan turned, because eventually the DO must win, mathematically speaking. The DO will continue to try and destroy the Pattern until the end of Time.

 

Of course, if he did stop trying, Elan's logic would fail, and it would be a bad decision. But I don't think that he is wrong in this case. I can't see the DO ever being permanently defeated, or giving up his quest to destroy the Pattern.

 

This. I don't think it possible that the DO can walk away. The DO will always counter the Creator. It's part of the theme of perpetual balance. The DO is the yin to the Creator's yang. The DO will never be permanently defeated, and he will never win it all.

[thisguy]

Makes you wonder either how smart the DO is or how boring his life is

[Zalliss]

The Wheel could not work without the DO. Think about it. The Age of Legends was the height of civilization, until the DO destroyed it. In the Third Age channeling and science is slowly getting back to the way it was (heartstone, steamwagon, crazy hang glider woman at the college), BUT at some point after the Fourth Age society must reset back to zero so that saidar/saidin can be rediscovered and they can start heading towards the Age of Legends again and be destroyed again. (I'm not eloquent but you get the idea).

 

I think that the WoT world is stalled somehow. If Rand succeeds in killing the DO like he told Elan he would the Wheel would break. This would allow time to move forward endlessly, to progress forever without everything being lost every few thousand years. In other words the Wheel would straighten out into an infinite line.

 

I just thought of something. If I'm right would that put an end to prophesy and Min's viewings? I'm excluding Dreaming because it takes free will into consideration.

[aranyaka]

Maybe Creator and DO are like Preservation and Ruin in Mistborn.

[shortkut]

The Wheel could not work without the DO. Think about it. The Age of Legends was the height of civilization, until the DO destroyed it. In the Third Age channeling and science is slowly getting back to the way it was (heartstone, steamwagon, crazy hang glider woman at the college), BUT at some point after the Fourth Age society must reset back to zero so that saidar/saidin can be rediscovered and they can start heading towards the Age of Legends again and be destroyed again. (I'm not eloquent but you get the idea).

 

I think that the WoT world is stalled somehow. If Rand succeeds in killing the DO like he told Elan he would the Wheel would break. This would allow time to move forward endlessly, to progress forever without everything being lost every few thousand years. In other words the Wheel would straighten out into an infinite line.

 

I just thought of something. If I'm right would that put an end to prophesy and Min's viewings? I'm excluding Dreaming because it takes free will into consideration.

the pattern does not have to cease to exist if time becomes linear, it just won't repeat. min should, at least in theory, still have visions

[Orderofolde]

What would be the point? Humanity is driven so that we live for change, we thrive on conflict. Having only a creator would be boring. Life would be peaceful and have no wars, no conflict, no point. Accidental deaths, no murder, no mischief, no mayhem. While it is theoretically possible, it is just not recommended. The Elves might just love it though...

[elric]

i dont think Rand can permanently win.

 

even if he permanently kill the DO , the pattern seemply weave a new one.

come to think abouyt it -> it can make a nice follow up Saga -> a young boy/girl discover he can access a new strange power, that his age channeler dont recognising... his path to master it and the slow declined he facing .. and the great war in the end where he lost and imprisoned obut at a GREAT cost ...

[Clouded]

Rand can't permanently win. He can't destroy the Dark One. The Dark One can win.

 

As RJ said, this is a lose once game. Therefore, a victory means he plays again. A loss means playing again is impossible.