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People reborn


matisawesome
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We dont have a whole ton of information from the past in these books that could link characters. However I think that Egwene is the reincarnation of the Aes Sedai queen of Manetheran that killed all the trollocs as she died

 

I always thought of Nyneave matching that part better, but that's because I still think she is gonna do some crazy because of Lan. Egwene seems like she fits whats her face(can never remember the name) that opposed LTT during the sealing.

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We dont have a whole ton of information from the past in these books that could link characters. However I think that Egwene is the reincarnation of the Aes Sedai queen of Manetheran that killed all the trollocs as she died

 

I always thought of Nyneave matching that part better, but that's because I still think she is gonna do some crazy because of Lan. Egwene seems like she fits whats her face(can never remember the name) that opposed LTT during the sealing.

 

Latra Posae Decume...aka Shadar Nor. Total bad ass.

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The old generals are not from Mat's own memories, they were just randon travellers who had adventured to see the Finns. There is a fair amount of evidence that Mat is King Aemon reborn however.

I'm probably forgetting something, but what about the memories he had before going to the Finns? I do not believe they were Aemon's, so being Aemon reborn alone wouldn't account for everything.
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The old generals are not from Mat's own memories, they were just randon travellers who had adventured to see the Finns. There is a fair amount of evidence that Mat is King Aemon reborn however.

I'm probably forgetting something, but what about the memories he had before going to the Finns? I do not believe they were Aemon's, so being Aemon reborn alone wouldn't account for everything.

 

From Brandon...

 

 

sleepinghour

In TEotW, is Mat remembering the Old Tongue from his own past life or from his ancestors?

Terez

Good question. He seems to have confirmed Old Blood for the Old Tongue, but the Aemon memory?

Felix

That's what my belief is, Aemon. Mat Cauthon is the reborn soul of Aemon. Aemon's Old Tongue.

Brandon

It isn't made clear. It could be either. The implication is his bloodline.

Brandon

The Aemon connection is certainly implied strongly.

 

 

So he is either him reborn or a direct descendant. As for memory we see him ordering forward the Kings Guards(Heart Guard) at the Battle of Manetheren...

 

"Muad'drin tia dar allende caba'drin rhiadem! Los Valdar Cuebiyari! Los! Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar!" (Footmen prepare to pass cavalry forward! Forward the Heart Guard! Forward! For the Honor of the Red Eagle! The Red Eagle!

 

Not sure who else that would realisticially be besides Aemon.

Edited by Suttree
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I don't think Elayne is Ilyena reborn, despite the similarity of names. Yes there is also a physical similarity - at one point, Rand taps LTT's memories and recalls that she has exactly the same sun-gold shade of hair; but that may just mean she's related somehow to the Kinslayer's wife. (Yes. I know.) But then, there is no physical resemblance between Rand and LTT.

 

I'm wondering atm whether Ilyena has been reborn as Allana, or possibly Moiraine.

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Don't you think that having everyone being somebody reborn cheapens the prophesied rebirth of the Dragon? What would it add to the story, except tying everything together with a nice little bow (too tidy, for my taste)?

 

EDIT: Obviously, everyone is somebody reborn. I meant somebody important :smile:

Edited by yoniy0
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Don't you think that having everyone being somebody reborn cheapens the prophesied rebirth of the Dragon? What would it add to the story, except tying everything together with a nice little bow (too tidy, for my taste)?

 

I agree, I am reluctant to believe any reborn theories, apart from the LTT and Mat - Aemon. I hope none of the others are any major historical characters reborn.

 

My main one is Egwene - Latra Posae. Not because they don't fit, because they do, for obvious reasons, but it would just trivialize the whole FoM meeting. Like Rand and Egwene are going head-to-head just because of who they are, it takes away the legitimacy of the whole plotline. I would much rather there be a legitimate cause for the whole thing, being Rand's plan to gather the armies of the world, and perhaps a twist in the breaking of the seals, rather than just be a repeat of the AoL debate.

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Yeah, that would be preferable, but I think the connection to Aemon is too strong to ignore, so I can accept Rand and Mat. Although really, what purpose would Mat- Aemon serve really?

 

If it was Perrin, it would make more sense, but Mat has almost no connection to Manetheren and Aemon at the current moment apart from old tongue and a few phrases. He is set up to be Prince of Ravens, and a General, which have little to do with Aemon really.

 

Lews Therin/Rand actually has a purpose and is well established. The others seem kind of like similarities thrown together to fit old heroes.

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Don't you think that having everyone being somebody reborn cheapens the prophesied rebirth of the Dragon? What would it add to the story, except tying everything together with a nice little bow (too tidy, for my taste)?

 

I agree, I am reluctant to believe any reborn theories, apart from the LTT and Mat - Aemon. I hope none of the others are any major historical characters reborn.

 

My main one is Egwene - Latra Posae. Not because they don't fit, because they do, for obvious reasons, but it would just trivialize the whole FoM meeting. Like Rand and Egwene are going head-to-head just because of who they are, it takes away the legitimacy of the whole plotline. I would much rather there be a legitimate cause for the whole thing, being Rand's plan to gather the armies of the world, and perhaps a twist in the breaking of the seals, rather than just be a repeat of the AoL debate.

 

I agree... though there is some indication that Perrin has been someone important in many previous lives...

 

He stared into the mirror, a part of him not comprehending what he saw, another part accepting. A gilded helmet, worked like a lion’s head, sat on his head as if it belonged there. Gold leaf covered his ornately hammered breastplate, and gold-work embellished the plate and mail on his arms and legs. Only the axe at his side was plain. A voice - his own - whispered in his mind that he would take it over any other weapon, had carried it a thousand times, in a hundred battles. No! He wanted to take it off, throw it away. I can’t! There was a sound in his head, louder than a murmur, almost at the level of understanding.

 

So maybe the three boys. But that is where I draw the line on speculation.

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Wait, just so I'm clear, I don't mean to say Mat and Perrin weren't important in some previous life. In fact, since their presence was also prophesied (they each appear in the KC, but the Shadow appears to know much more than that, including the fact that they'd be raised with Rand), I definitely think they're tied to the Wheel in some fashion or other.

 

I'm only skeptic regarding their being someone-we've-heard-of reborn (Aemon included).

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Indeed, I agree with Yoniy0, I was talking about the historical figures that have been mentioned. Aemon, Latra, Ilyena, Hawkwing etc..

 

I think all 3 at least are tied together and have been important numerous times, I just think that they are souls from other turnings of the wheel, rather than people who are still in historical memory. There are 7 ages, I find it difficult to believe that all of the main characters are souls reborn from important figures in the 2nd and 3rd Age (as some call them).

 

edit:

 

On a slight aside note, I wonder, if people are truly being reborn like Aemon, Ilyena, Latra, I wonder if any of the AoL Chosen have been reborn, and if they show similar aptitudes and skills that they had in their former lives.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Don't you think that having everyone being somebody reborn cheapens the prophesied rebirth of the Dragon? What would it add to the story, except tying everything together with a nice little bow (too tidy, for my taste)?

 

I agree, I am reluctant to believe any reborn theories, apart from the LTT and Mat - Aemon. I hope none of the others are any major historical characters reborn.

 

My main one is Egwene - Latra Posae. Not because they don't fit, because they do, for obvious reasons, but it would just trivialize the whole FoM meeting. Like Rand and Egwene are going head-to-head just because of who they are, it takes away the legitimacy of the whole plotline. I would much rather there be a legitimate cause for the whole thing, being Rand's plan to gather the armies of the world, and perhaps a twist in the breaking of the seals, rather than just be a repeat of the AoL debate.

 

I actually am more likely to buy the Egwene=Latra Posae one than I am to buy Mat being Aemon Reborn ... Rand's whole epiphany on Dragonmount was about "Love conquers all" (which excuses the existence of existence) and "Maybe I can do it right this time" (which excuses the cyclical nature of existence). One of the things that Lews Therin seems to have done wrong, last time, was not resolve his conflict with the group of female channelers led by Latra Posae. It can be argued strongly that failing to resolve that conflict led directly to the flawed sealing and the backlash of the taint. So, thematically I could see a rehash between those two souls being part of "doing it right this time."

 

I'm not saying that I'd necessarily like that mind you. Personally, I'd rather Rand be a unique case, as far as "souls who were involved last time having another go at it" (although we've already got Birgitte too, her method of entry is also unique). But I can see a thematic reason why it might be done that way.

 

In some ways, the entire Third Age seems like a mulligan - on a failed shot from deep in a St. Andrews bunker.

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I asked Brandon about this once, and the way he answered that question ("an answer might give some people too much of a clue") suggested to me that there are other significant reincarnations.

 

sleepinghour: Without revealing names, did RJ's notes say whether any character besides Rand is the reincarnation of someone important?

Brandon: This is a difficult one to answer, as I think even an answer might give some people too much of a clue. I'll consider.

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Well, you only asked for a yes/no answer, and Brandon believes he didn't answer the question, so we can hardly assume his response implies an affirmative.

 

I think his answer does hint at 'yes,' whether he meant to do so or not. (We're talking about the guy who accidentally said, "Well, Graendal..." before catching himself when asked about Asmodean's killer, so it's not like he hasn't let some things slip by accident. :wink:)

 

If the answer to my question had been 'no' and Brandon had said so, how would that have given people "too much of a clue"? It would have been a definite answer, not a clue. On the other hand, if Brandon had answered 'yes' even without mentioning names, it would have added a lot of fuel to the Ilyena/Elayne and Egwene/Latra Posae theories in particular. Which may or may not be true, but I think it's highly likely that it's something RJ never wanted us to know for sure, especially before AMoL was out. LTT's anguish over losing Ilyena forever and his hope of her living again (as expressed in Veins of Gold) wouldn't be nearly as poignant if we already knew she had been reborn as Elayne. It would have robbed many scenes of their power.

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I agree with your analysis, I just think that when writing on Twitter (hardly the same as a verbal conversation) Brandon never was shy about simply saying RAFO. In this case he didn't, and yet he maintains that he didn't answer. We have to take that into account.

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It can be argued strongly that failing to resolve that conflict led directly to the flawed sealing and the backlash of the taint.

 

How so? You are aware what RJ said about if the females has been involved correct? Are you suggesting they would have come up with a new plan at the last second?

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How so? You are aware what RJ said about if the females has been involved correct? Are you suggesting they would have come up with a new plan at the last second?

Last second? They had some two years to work together on a plan, if they'd only tried. I don't know about fionwe1987, but I'm saying so, yes.

(BTW Rand and Min are presumably going to come up with a successful plan in much less time, so why not Lews and Latra?)

Edited by yoniy0
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