something i was wondering about mat and the horn

[Maleshub]

My understanding is that a drop of poison would kill slowly; but 50 or 100 drops (depending on how big the slobber was) would kill instantly.

 

Mat didn't die in that incident. He had not reached that point yet.

 

Mat remembers that the DH slobbered on his arm. That should result in a massive shock to his body as a huge amount of poison enters his system. All it would take is a couple of seconds.

 

And Rand's balefire beam to destroy the DH wasn't very small (surgical):

 

Remembering what had happened before, Rand darted to one side as he channeled, the shaft of liquid white fire streaking by the door as it destroyed the Shadowspawn. He had tried to make it less this time, to confine the destruction to the Darkhounds, but the thick wall at the far end of the chamber had a shadowed hole in it. Not all the way through, he thought – it was hard to tell by moonlight – but he would have to fine his control of this weapon.

 

The way I understand it is that Rand's balefire ray should have reversed (say) 10-20 seconds, if not more, of time that would have been enough to kill Mat by that amount of DH saliva.

[Clouded]

Theodril, what are you arguing? That Mat's death was satisfied by the Dark Hounds? Here is another statement from RJ.

 

 

QUESTION

When did Mat die and live again?

ROBERT JORDAN

He said something that implied that the die and live again prophecy-fulfillment was the lightning incident in The Fires of Heaven, and not the hanging incident in The Shadow Rising. I was always sure it was the other way around. To paraphrase the Humblest Man on the Net: Who's this guy to tell me such things? He just wrote the books.

 

[shortkut]

one drop of saliva killing slowly could be days or weeks. a lot of slober does not have to mean less than 20 seconds

[yoniy0]

Exactly, there's nothing to suggest your take on it, Theodril. I mean, nothing to exclude it, but nothing to suggest it either.

[MasterAblar]

Wasn't there an Aiel woman with Mat when that happened? A shaido if I remember correctly. I imagine she would have been rather shocked if Mat was dead and then came back to life right in front of her eyes.

[MarkDiLillo]

[Removed] Mat did not die by the dark hounds. He was slobbered on and would have for sure died - but he had not died yet.

[Mulk]

I always took the die and live again to refer to the saidin lightning attack in FOH, when Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean (and probably others) died and then came back after Rand's massive balefire burst to kill Rahvin. Mat could not have been dead, just almost there, when Rand cut him down and pumped life back into him as it were - Rand doesn't have the ability to bring someone back from the edge by healing and he doesn't have the power to resurrect short of balefiring a killer and he couldn't do that in Rhuidean.

[thisguy]

I always took the die and live again to refer to the saidin lightning attack in FOH, when Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean (and probably others) died and then came back after Rand's massive balefire burst to kill Rahvin. Mat could not have been dead, just almost there, when Rand cut him down and pumped life back into him as it were - Rand doesn't have the ability to bring someone back from the edge by healing and he doesn't have the power to resurrect short of balefiring a killer and he couldn't do that in Rhuidean.

 

People who are clinically dead are resuscitated often enough.

 

What matters is that RJ said the die and live again scenario was when they went to Caemlyn to take out Rahvin.

[yoniy0]

Guys, disagreement is a fact of life, but you don't get to talk down to people just because they disagree with you.

[Darksmoon]

I think Rand balefired the dark hound right after it slobbered on Mat. Mat remembers the dark hound slobbering on him and then most of the door was back together. I don't believe he had time to die.

[FarShainMael]

'Clinical death' is a matter of definition, not of biology. For legal convenience it is necessary to have a line drawn which says 'this person is dead', and that line has been moved several times. Arguably if a person can be resuscitated they are not dead - their soul has not become permanently detached from their body.

[thisguy]

'Clinical death' is a matter of definition, not of biology. For legal convenience it is necessary to have a line drawn which says 'this person is dead', and that line has been moved several times. Arguably if a person can be resuscitated they are not dead - their soul has not become permanently detached from their body.

That's if you believe in the notion of a "soul" to begin with, but I get your point. ;)

[Maleshub]

Theodril, what are you arguing? That Mat's death was satisfied by the Dark Hounds? Here is another statement from RJ.

 

 

QUESTION

 

When did Mat die and live again?

ROBERT JORDAN

 

He said something that implied that the die and live again prophecy-fulfillment was the lightning incident in The Fires of Heaven, and not the hanging incident in The Shadow Rising. I was always sure it was the other way around. To paraphrase the Humblest Man on the Net: Who's this guy to tell me such things? He just wrote the books.

 

 

No, that wasn't my intention. I was just discussing the possibility that Mat may have died in the DH incident. It is my perception that he died.

 

one drop of saliva killing slowly could be days or weeks. a lot of slober does not have to mean less than 20 seconds

 

Could be. I envisioned this as something like a drop on poison from a King Cobra (or whatever the most poisonous snake bite is). Mat's incident I pictured as this: If 10 Cobra's bite a man's arm simultaneously, how much would he live?

 

Wasn't there an Aiel woman with Mat when that happened? A shaido if I remember correctly. I imagine she would have been rather shocked if Mat was dead and then came back to life right in front of her eyes.

 

True, but I thought that as a DF working for Sammael, she would keep a low profile and as silent as possible. And the fact that she isn't shocked by the incident was a missed hint that all isn't right with her. Or it could be simply that she is an Aiel maiden who isn't shocked by violence and strange stuff.

 

The way I understood Moiraine's description of DH saliva and blood led me to believe that Mat died and his death reversed by balefire.

[Orderofolde]

There was also the Dark Hounds incident where Mat surely died (by Moiraine's estimation of the effect of DH saliva on the skin). In that incident, Rand balefired the DH and Mat says that he remembers the DH slobbering over his arm. The only one in the room at the time was Melindra (DF Shaido Maiden). So she probably wouldn't care if he died by another servant of the Great Lord.

He wasn't dead, he would have died much sooner with a greater deal of their poisonous saliva coating his arm. After Rand's Balefire, he only had a tiny spot that began to spread and itch until Moiraine healed him.

[Orderofolde]

There was also the Dark Hounds incident where Mat surely died (by Moiraine's estimation of the effect of DH saliva on the skin). In that incident, Rand balefired the DH and Mat says that he remembers the DH slobbering over his arm. The only one in the room at the time was Melindra (DF Shaido Maiden). So she probably wouldn't care if he died by another servant of the Great Lord.

That was probably just a flesh wound. One that would have taken his entire arm off but I don't know if the hound had gotten the killing stroke in yet.

 

DH saliva in the amount Mat remembers kills instantly. That is how I understand Moiraine's description of it.

Not instantly, but very quickly. Not even the Shadar Logoth dagger kills "instantly."

[Maleshub]

There was also the Dark Hounds incident where Mat surely died (by Moiraine's estimation of the effect of DH saliva on the skin). In that incident, Rand balefired the DH and Mat says that he remembers the DH slobbering over his arm. The only one in the room at the time was Melindra (DF Shaido Maiden). So she probably wouldn't care if he died by another servant of the Great Lord.

That was probably just a flesh wound. One that would have taken his entire arm off but I don't know if the hound had gotten the killing stroke in yet.

 

DH saliva in the amount Mat remembers kills instantly. That is how I understand Moiraine's description of it.

Not instantly, but very quickly. Not even the Shadar Logoth dagger kills "instantly."

 

By instantly I meant something like 10 seconds. And in WoT we have the "Two Step Snake." It kills in less than 2 seconds. Still, this is a personal understanding of Moiraine's description of DH saliva: one drop slow death ..... 100 drops: very quick death.