Sacrifices

[thisguy]

Some people seem to have criticisms about the Final Battle starting at Caemlyn; not enough important characters, nothing of importance there but the dragons, etc. So, what sort of sacrifices would make you happy. Who needs to die? How? What needs to be destroyed? AND, do you think of any of what you want dead or destroyed actually will be?

[Ashaman Kovan]

I think Caemlyn is the perfect place. First big city we're introduced to, the one we've gone back to the most (I think). Rand meets Elayne there, and Gawyn, and Loial. He sees Logain there for the first time. Other things. I have no problem with it whatsoever and don't really see why anyone else would. Though they are of course entitled to that opinion. Not to mention from a strategic standpoint is the perfect place to take out first. Even more so if Demandred is in Murandy. Personally, in a book, I rarely want anything specific to happen. Of course I want the good guys to win, the lovers' relationship to work out, but I leave it up to the author to determine how this will unfold. It may sound lazy, or undedicated, but I feel like if I have no (Or as little as possible) expectations, then all I can do is be surprised. If that makes sense.

[clu7ch]

Lets just say that if Egwene has to die, her lovah has to die too. i HATE him.

 

And to be honest, criticism aboot the battle starting in Caemlyn is silly at this point, because it's not really an 'Ohhh I hope it doesn't happen' thing, because that horse is most certainly dead. The city is on fire.

 

But I don't have any issues either way, Brandon is a glorious writer and I trust him, and more importantly, I trust Robert Jordan and brandon's dedication to his wishes.

[thisguy]

I think Caemlyn is the perfect place. First big city we're introduced to, the one we've gone back to the most (I think). Rand meets Elayne there, and Gawyn, and Loial. He sees Logain there for the first time. Other things. I have no problem with it whatsoever and don't really see why anyone else would. Though they are of course entitled to that opinion. Not to mention from a strategic standpoint is the perfect place to take out first. Even more so if Demandred is in Murandy. Personally, in a book, I rarely want anything specific to happen. Of course I want the good guys to win, the lovers' relationship to work out, but I leave it up to the author to determine how this will unfold. It may sound lazy, or undedicated, but I feel like if I have no (Or as little as possible) expectations, then all I can do is be surprised. If that makes sense.

That makes complete sense to me, man. I like being surprised. Strategically, it is the perfect place to attack; the grandest city outside of Tar Valon - the oldest nation. it's also not prepared for shadowspawn the way the Borderlands are. And, it's the one that Rand has most attachment to and, so, is best to hurt him by attacking.

[thisguy]

Lets just say that if Egwene has to die, her lovah has to die too. i HATE him.

 

I liked him for a while, then he got annoying too. Probably from hanging out with Egwene. ;)

[clu7ch]

could be, and he just doesn't have the *groping motion* personality that egwene has.

 

It also seems appropriate that my 300th post should be perverted lol.

[Morden]

Personally I think that this is just a way for Moridin to trick Rand into delaying actions. so his forces are fractured and split. Afterall if Andor is key to the last battle how better to keep Andor and its ruling family away from it than by destroying its capital city?

 

He obvious knows by now that Rand was going to meet at FoM and because of how mouthy Egwene has been about his intentions he knows that he plans to break the seals.

 

The DO and Moridin know that this isnt about military victory, its about corruption, hatred and distrust. They need to sow the seeds of discord more than they need to wipe out all the forces of the light.

 

I think the whole reason Ishamael ever came out from his time sealed in the bore was whenever there was a strong civilization in randland that would be a considerable threat should the dragon be reborn. The 10 nations happen? he starts the trolloc wars until they are all gone, then simply stops rather than continuing. Hawking? he corrupts him and leaves his empty in a shattered state where they are all splintered.

 

He could have wiped out almost any city at any time should be have chosen to, but that isnt what he wants. I very much doubt he cares much for Caemlyn other than a way to distract and sow dissention among the forces of the light. Afterall if everyone is afraid that a massive force of trollocs is heading for their cities...

[Darksmoon]

Is Andor the key to the last battle due to something done in it or is it due to Rand, Matt, and Perrin being from there?

[thisguy]

Is Andor the key to the last battle due to something done in it or is it due to Rand, Matt, and Perrin being from there?

I actually don't know if Andor is, but according to a prophecy of Elaida's the Royal family of Andor is a key to the FB. However, you could just interpret that as Rand himself since, he's half royal by blood.

[Neophyte]

Is Andor the key to the last battle due to something done in it or is it due to Rand, Matt, and Perrin being from there?

 

According to one of Elaida's Foretellings, the royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle. (see TSR chapter 1 and ACoS prologue). Since Rand is the grandson of Queen Mordrellen (the predecessor of Morgase) he is of the royal line of Andor.

 

Much as thisguy said, beating me to it ...

[clu7ch]

So not to say that Andor is actually the key, but the people of.

[thisguy]

Yeah, the Royal Line, specifically. There's a million ways to translate that - obviously Rand. But, all or most might have a necessary contribution to the war. And, Luc is part of the Royal Line - a bad guy, yes - but maybe necessary for the good guys in some way.... who knows?

[jwood01]

It is a good strategy to attack Andor the seat of one of Rand's love interests.

 

It could force Rand to divert one of his two Taveren friends to deal with it; and I have a suspicion that all three Taveren need to be together to win the LB.

[jwood01]

Yeah, the Royal Line, specifically. There's a million ways to translate that - obviously Rand. But, all or most might have a necessary contribution to the war. And, Luc is part of the Royal Line - a bad guy, yes - but maybe necessary for the good guys in some way.... who knows?

 

Could be Galad as well, or Elayne..... Come to think of it, aren't most of the High Seats of Andor interrelated, i.e., share blood with the original Queen of Andor? Dont we learn about that in LoC?

[thisguy]

Yeah, the Royal Line, specifically. There's a million ways to translate that - obviously Rand. But, all or most might have a necessary contribution to the war. And, Luc is part of the Royal Line - a bad guy, yes - but maybe necessary for the good guys in some way.... who knows?

 

Could be Galad as well, or Elayne..... Come to think of it, aren't most of the High Seats of Andor interrelated, i.e., share blood with the original Queen of Andor? Dont we learn about that in LoC?

they all share blood with the original Queen. But, that's generations ago. I think her foretelling had to do with Rand (obviously) and possibly Elayne, Gawyn, Galad, Morgase and/or Luc.

[jelleyt]

Its always seemed that Andor and Caelmyn are going to be the focal point of the lb, we expect trollocs in the borderlands that's why they are the borderlands, right? As

Caemlyn is the perfect place. First big city we're introduced to, the one we've gone back to the most (I think). Rand meets Elayne there, and Gawyn, and Loial.

The blood ties were important to build the characters etc but it create a big sense of "love" for the place and therefor will draw rand, eleayne, morgase( if shes gone to FoM), gwyan, glayd, egwene (because of AS connection plus gwyan) Matt will appear there anywhere with mo and thom. Perrin will keep command of armies at FoM until matt can take charge.

 

All this is irrelevant until the BT catches up (RJ and BS wouldn't make the story that predictable, But I would expect some random ta'vern/character coesidence) Perrin seems to arrive in caemlyn, goes drinking with matt, and then travels to the FoM, Iirc doesn't he comment about going to see what's up with the gateways not working at the BT " ToM 47 "he'd (Grady) tried to make a gateway there earlier in the day...it hadn't worked. Perrin was disturbed by that. He intended to investigat soon" therefore this needs some form of reconciliation, probably tied in with peverra/androl/Logan story line.

 

I would sacrifice...one of rands loves, morgase, faile, just to wind perrin up, gwyan as he's got too irritating and finally the two rivers, it's still a hold on rand and a majority of the characters, it would Definately split the attentions.

 

The pattern weaves at the wheel wills.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Not entirely sure why you're quoting that particular part of my particular post. But okie dokie. : ]

[Luckers]

Some people seem to have criticisms about the Final Battle starting at Caemlyn; not enough important characters, nothing of importance there but the dragons, etc. So, what sort of sacrifices would make you happy. Who needs to die? How? What needs to be destroyed? AND, do you think of any of what you want dead or destroyed actually will be?

 

I think for a lot of people its not just what needs to be sacrificed, it's that we've had a book to wait around and we're supposed to be worried about the fate of caemlyn--but no one we know is there. Now if Elayne had not appeared at Merrilor, it might have been different.

[thisguy]

Some people seem to have criticisms about the Final Battle starting at Caemlyn; not enough important characters, nothing of importance there but the dragons, etc. So, what sort of sacrifices would make you happy. Who needs to die? How? What needs to be destroyed? AND, do you think of any of what you want dead or destroyed actually will be?

 

I think for a lot of people its not just what needs to be sacrificed, it's that we've had a book to wait around and we're supposed to be worried about the fate of caemlyn--but no one we know is there. Now if Elayne had not appeared at Merrilor, it might have been different.

Fair enough. I was really just using that as an example as it was the last.... complaint I saw. But, most stories need a bit of sacrifice, at least. So, who or what would you like to see killed or destroyed for the book to live up to your expectations?

[spytfyre the dragon]

i think it would be a means for Rand to go super sayian one million if Elayne dies after giving birth to the twins.

[JerseyMouse]

He would definately, but could he channel all that negitive energy into defeating the DO..

[Barid Bel Medar]

Wait, the Last Battle has already started, and it didn't start at Caemlyn. It started all across the Borderlands when Trollocs began their mass invasion, simultaniously invading Saldaea and Kandor (probably Arafel aswell, although we haven't seen anything from them. Sheinar seems to have been alright until Lan arrives at Tarwin's Gap.)

 

Maradon was probably the first major battle of TG, and that first started weeks before Caemlyn is attacked.

 

So I don't see what the problem is. Caemlyn is the next to suffer a surprise attack, while everyone is looking north at the hordes of Shadowspawn fighting in the Borderlands. Caemlyn is pretty central on the map, and if they can join up with the Dreadlords from the Black Tower, and possibly a Murandian army under Demandred, the Shadow would hold a huge portion of the world, dividing it into two, able to attack from any direction and cutting of supply routes and reincorcements (via traditional means, Gateways are obviously a different matter, but land routes are still important)

 

Yeah, there are no main characters currently in Caemlyn, and nobody knows what is going down, but that to me makes it better. I mean, everyone complains about the Shadow being pretty crap, but they seemed to have pulled a swift one over the Light, overruning the second largest city and arguably the most important. Not sure why it is disappointing?

[Luckers]

I for one would love if Caemlyn were completely destroyed. A total victory for the Shadow. Mat and co. through his brilliance, manages to save the dragons, and maybe bring the Kin out, but that's that.

 

I don't see it. But I would love it.

[John Snow]

I for one would love if Caemlyn were completely destroyed. A total victory for the Shadow. Mat and co. through his brilliance, manages to save the dragons, and maybe bring the Kin out, but that's that.

 

I don't see it. But I would love it.

 

I kinda like the sound of that.

[Neophyte]

I for one would love if Caemlyn were completely destroyed. A total victory for the Shadow. Mat and co. through his brilliance, manages to save the dragons, and maybe bring the Kin out, but that's that.

 

I don't see it. But I would love it.

 

I think there is still a really good chance of significant damage to the city ... especially since Elayne and her army are not in it. In Aviendha's flash forward, Oncala notes that the "white Andoran Palace gates were open." But the main gates of the Palace that stands now are "tall, gilded gates, gleaming in the sun" according the the description in TEoTW chapter 40. It is tenuous, I'll admit, but it seems like the kind of detail that might be slipped in as a hint ...

 

... or a red herring - they could have just remodeled. Still, it could mean significant damage to the city. I expect the gloves will come off somewhat in the finale.