The Smell Of Lanfear

[yoniy0]

He even feels guilty about being attracted to Selene.

Yes, I know. He was beginning to understand why that would never work, though, and combined with Selene's wiles I think the reaction she got for him is nothing more than to be expected (in fact, I think she played it safe; could probably have gone for the prize, if she wanted to). Point in case, that last night on the way to Cairhien, the only thing stopping him from going to her room as the innkeeper suggested was that he thought she was mad.

 

I don't care how conservative TR is. Teenage hormone kick in and marriage doesn't occur until they're into their twenties, or near enough. The fact that people get caught just goes to show...

That's actually historically wrong. Society can control the age at which teenagers begin to experiment to some degree, and indeed it has (why, just 20 years ago things looked much differently than they do today).

 

So Either he's totally innocent until the taking of the stone, or he was a lady killer in TR just on the DL.

I think you're wrong, but you're welcome to prove me wrong by presenting quotes (which I have, more than once now). I'll bound the time-frame I'm talking about: by his time at the Stone, I agree that he's already adopted his womanizer ways. I don't believe he began working on it before leaving TV (that is, except putting on a show). Why in hell would that mean that it's either instantaneous or a preexisting condition? That's a long trip, with many stops in cities that you're never going back to -- the perfect setting to have a series of meaningless flings.

BTW RJ's replies violated the PG-13 rating more often than not. It's okay, though -- he's RJ.

[Vardar]

He even feels guilty about being attracted to Selene.

Yes, I know. He was beginning to understand why that would never work, though, and combined with Selene's wiles I think the reaction she got for him is nothing more than to be expected (in fact, I think she played it safe; could probably have gone for the prize, if she wanted to). Point in case, that last night on the way to Cairhien, the only thing stopping him from going to her room as the innkeeper suggested was that he thought she was mad.

 

I don't care how conservative TR is. Teenage hormone kick in and marriage doesn't occur until they're into their twenties, or near enough. The fact that people get caught just goes to show...

That's actually historically wrong. Society can control the age at which teenagers begin to experiment to some degree, and indeed it has (why, just 20 years ago things looked much differently than they do today).

 

So Either he's totally innocent until the taking of the stone, or he was a lady killer in TR just on the DL.

I think you're wrong, but you're welcome to prove me wrong by presenting quotes (which I have, more than once now). I'll bound the time-frame I'm talking about: by his time at the Stone, I agree that he's already adopted his womanizer ways. I don't believe he began working on it before leaving TV (that is, except putting on a show). Why in hell would that mean that it's either instantaneous or a preexisting condition? That's a long trip, with many stops in cities that you're never going back to -- the perfect setting to have a series of meaningless flings.

BTW RJ's replies violated the PG-13 rating more often than not. It's okay, though -- he's RJ.

 

It only took a couple weeks from Calmyn to Tear. I see your "He's mostly talk" thing, which I suppose could be true. But if it is, you're saying that he went from harmless flirt to what he is, in a matter of months with no practice in between. He flirted with the women who were caring for Thom in the bar in TV, do you refute that or do I need a quote? He took a boat to Cal, and stayed a day? Rode horses near to death to another boat and went straight to tear. All this occured in a matter of weeks (It's really hard to pin down dates in this series, but it wasnt a year or anything like that).

 

So there are only two conclusions, either Mat was a harmless flirt, and then became a lady killer overnight (Or close enough to it) or mat always did his thang, and kept it secret due to where he was raised. What other conclusions are there? I'm confused about which I'm wrong about, if I'm wrong, then please offer another theory.

 

We know he was only focused on the girls in his Tear trip, he barely took time to gamble he was so focused. His Cal trip went boat to the city right (Or damn close to it)? When would he find time to practice on woman?

[thisguy]

He even feels guilty about being attracted to Selene.

Yes, I know. He was beginning to understand why that would never work, though, and combined with Selene's wiles I think the reaction she got for him is nothing more than to be expected (in fact, I think she played it safe; could probably have gone for the prize, if she wanted to). Point in case, that last night on the way to Cairhien, the only thing stopping him from going to her room as the innkeeper suggested was that he thought she was mad.

 

I don't care how conservative TR is. Teenage hormone kick in and marriage doesn't occur until they're into their twenties, or near enough. The fact that people get caught just goes to show...

That's actually historically wrong. Society can control the age at which teenagers begin to experiment to some degree, and indeed it has (why, just 20 years ago things looked much differently than they do today).

 

So Either he's totally innocent until the taking of the stone, or he was a lady killer in TR just on the DL.

I think you're wrong, but you're welcome to prove me wrong by presenting quotes (which I have, more than once now). I'll bound the time-frame I'm talking about: by his time at the Stone, I agree that he's already adopted his womanizer ways. I don't believe he began working on it before leaving TV (that is, except putting on a show). Why in hell would that mean that it's either instantaneous or a preexisting condition? That's a long trip, with many stops in cities that you're never going back to -- the perfect setting to have a series of meaningless flings.

BTW RJ's replies violated the PG-13 rating more often than not. It's okay, though -- he's RJ.

 

It only took a couple weeks from Calmyn to Tear. I see your "He's mostly talk" thing, which I suppose could be true. But if it is, you're saying that he went from harmless flirt to what he is, in a matter of months with no practice in between. He flirted with the women who were caring for Thom in the bar in TV, do you refute that or do I need a quote? He took a boat to Cal, and stayed a day? Rode horses near to death to another boat and went straight to tear. All this occured in a matter of weeks (It's really hard to pin down dates in this series, but it wasnt a year or anything like that).

 

So there are only two conclusions, either Mat was a harmless flirt, and then became a lady killer overnight (Or close enough to it) or mat always did his thang, and kept it secret due to where he was raised. What other conclusions are there? I'm confused about which I'm wrong about, if I'm wrong, then please offer another theory.

 

We know he was only focused on the girls in his Tear trip, he barely took time to gamble he was so focused. His Cal trip went boat to the city right (Or damn close to it)? When would he find time to practice on woman?

He's a horny dude who just lost his memory. Actually, even without the memory thing, I know plenty of guys who are good with women and have always been that way. After Tar, he's finally on his own for a bit, master of his domain. He finally gets a chance to start hitting on some women and has good luck doing it. I don't see what the big deal is...

[Vardar]

Oh I don't think its a big deal. Actually I'm not sure why we're debating this, but alas we are. I still think you're right. He was always that way and now gets to do it more.

[thisguy]

Oh I don't think its a big deal. Actually I'm not sure why we're debating this, but alas we are. I still think you're right. He was always that way and now gets to do it more.

Yeah, he's left the more puritanical of the TR and is out and about with looser women. It's good to be Mat! ;)

[yoniy0]

It only took a couple weeks from Calmyn to Tear. I see your "He's mostly talk" thing, which I suppose could be true. But if it is, you're saying that he went from harmless flirt to what he is, in a matter of months with no practice in between. He flirted with the women who were caring for Thom in the bar in TV, do you refute that or do I need a quote?

You don't need a quote, since I just reread TDR31. You are simply wrong. The best Mat managed was to use the same smile that sometimes got him off the hook when his mother caught him doing something he shouldn't have.

The trip from TV to Tear took 33 days. You're right that he spent most of it on a boat; I haven't considered that. Even still, it's a good situation to practice coming on to tavern girls, and his time in the Stone could've also helped (the fact that he had coin enough to spend without thinking about it couldn't have hurt, either).

[driedraspberry]

He even feels guilty acertaing attracted to Selene.

Yes, I know. He was beginning to understand why that would never work, though, and combined with Selene's wiles I think the reaction she got for him is nothing more than to be expected (in fact, I think she played it safe; could probably have gone for the prize, if she wanted to). Point in case, that last night on the way to Cairhien, the only thing stopping him from going to her room as the innkeeper suggested was that he thought she was mad.

 

I don't care how conservative TR is. Teenage hormone kick in and marriage doesn't occur until they're into their twenties, or near enough. The fact that people get caught just goes to show...

That's actually historically wrong. Society can control the age at which teenagers begin to experiment to some degree, and indeed it has (why, just 20 years ago things looked much differently than they do today).

 

So Either he's totally innocent until the taking of the stone, or he was a lady killer in TR just on the DL.

I think you're wrong, but you're welcome to prove me wrong by presenting quotes (which I have, more than once now). I'll bound the time-frame I'm talking about: by his time at the Stone, I agree that he's already adopted his womanizer ways. I don't believe he began working on it before leaving TV (that is, except putting on a show). Why in hell would that mean that it's either instantaneous or a preexisting condition? That's a long trip, with many stops in cities that you're never going back to -- the perfect setting to have a series of meaningless flings.

BTW RJ's replies violated the PG-13 rating more often than not. It's okay, though -- he's RJ.

 

Sorry but I don't buy it. Rand was scandalized when she asked for help with her buttons, he was petrified at the sight of her legs, not to mention his guilt. There was no way he had any intentions beyond talking that night. Look at how he treats Berelain.

 

As for you second point, all I can say is I wouldn't presume to know too much about teenage sexual activities in history. I'm sure the TR flirts took precautions, but the fact that people have been caught proves it happens.

 

 

[Mange]

Hi everyone! Felt the need to at least post once before the last book is published and the topic at hand seems harmless enough.

 

I'm siding with the camp that thinks Lanfears ego would hinder any tricks in seducing Rand. Don't think there is any doubt in her mind that she had him more or less under 'control'. I would consider Lanfears reaction towards finding out that Rand had slept with Aviendha proof enough of that. She’s a woman with many qualities but her awareness of potential shortcomings is a bit lacking. So I don’t think she would feel the need to boost her chances when she’s already perfect.

 

Side notes

Rands awkwardness around Selene could be explained that he grew up on a farm with his dad, herding sheep. And it wasn't just Rand that was behaving a bit strange around Selene/Lanfear, even Loials ears were twitching … Adding to that, the circumstances weren't exactly normal (parallel universe and all) so maybe that made the situation even more uncomfortable.

 

Regarding Mat: to me he always felt a bit out of place with women up until Tear. I remember the three ta'verens repeatingly thought the other two had a better way with women which leads me to think that no one was that great in the beginning of the series (or all three were very good but didn’t want to realize it).

[Morsker]

Okay, I'm beginning to get uncomfortable about the language you're using, Vardarmus (these boards are PG-13), but again I don't think so. We get very little screen time with Mat and Thom on their way from Tar Valon to Caemlyn, and none between Caemlyn and Tear. I don't think we've seen him chase any tavern-maidens in that time frame. Either way, he wasn't as worldly as he might've wanted some to believe before he left Tar Valon:

She was so beautiful he almost forgot to breathe

[...]

For an instant Mat continued to stare at her, then suddenly he realized he was standing there naked. Face scarlet, he shambled to the bed, pulled the blanket around himself like a cloak, and more fell than sat down on the edge of the mattress. "I'm sorry for... I mean, I... that is, I didn’t expect... I... I...." He drew a deep breath. "I apologize for your finding me this way."

That doesn't explain anything if we're considering that Lanfear is using Compulsion on everyone. Egwene was awed by her too, and felt unworthy in her presence.

[Alric]

The mythology of Lanfear in Randland is focused on her beauty, the stories that have been passed down are about someone who had absolutely everythting - looks, intelligence, influence (but she didn't have LTT) and still turned to the Shadow for the promise of eternal life and a hope of getting LTT back. When she talks with Rand in Tear she lets go of the "Selene" illusion which made her appear younger and Rand finds her just as beautiful if not even more beautiful. I think it is pretty much established that she isn't "cheating" with regards to her looks. However, she might have used Compulsion to hide her tracks or scare people into obedience.

 

 

tSR: Ch9: Decisicons:

“Do you wish to see my true appearance? You can’t remember that, either, can you?”

 

[...]

 

The air rippled around Lanfear, and she changed. She was older than he, certainly, but older was not the right word. More mature. Riper. Even more beautiful, if that was possible. A lush blossom in full flower compared to a bud. Even knowing what she was, she made his mouth go dry, his throat tighten.

[Garen]

I clicked on this thinking "The Smell of Lanfear" was one of the Naked Gun sequels.

[he who comes with a bong]

I really did not think that this topic would get so much feedback, makes me smile. As far as Lanfear saying that she never uses compulsion i find that kinda fishy, after all she is a bad person through and through. I belive that she would use everything that she had in her arsenal to try to corupt any one and everyone, and even small forms of compulsion would be one of those things, along with her smoking good looks.

[Luckers]

I really did not think that this topic would get so much feedback, makes me smile. As far as Lanfear saying that she never uses compulsion i find that kinda fishy, after all she is a bad person through and through. I belive that she would use everything that she had in her arsenal to try to corupt any one and everyone, and even small forms of compulsion would be one of those things, along with her smoking good looks.

 

It's not hugely out of character for her. She regards herself as a coneisuer of evil, after all. Aside from being too easy, compulsion is Graendal and Rahvin's game... and, as Lanfear would say....

 

Lanfear was watching him warily. “I make no use of the Soulless. I told you there are . . . differences among the Chosen."

[Vardar]

It only took a couple weeks from Calmyn to Tear. I see your "He's mostly talk" thing, which I suppose could be true. But if it is, you're saying that he went from harmless flirt to what he is, in a matter of months with no practice in between. He flirted with the women who were caring for Thom in the bar in TV, do you refute that or do I need a quote?

You don't need a quote, since I just reread TDR31. You are simply wrong. The best Mat managed was to use the same smile that sometimes got him off the hook when his mother caught him doing something he shouldn't have.

The trip from TV to Tear took 33 days. You're right that he spent most of it on a boat; I haven't considered that. Even still, it's a good situation to practice coming on to tavern girls, and his time in the Stone could've also helped (the fact that he had coin enough to spend without thinking about it couldn't have hurt, either).

 

How do you practice coming on to girls on a boat full of men? (Seriously curious)

 

What am I wrong about? I offered two choices, one of them has to be correct, unless there is some unknown 3rd. Either he's always been that way (Which you refute) or he learned it in 15 days (which is crazy in my opinion). So, unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly (which is possible), how can I be wrong on both fronts?

 

Well unless he's still all talk (doubtful).

[yoniy0]

How do you practice coming on to girls on a boat full of men? (Seriously curious)

You don't, I admitted as much. I was thinking of the ride to Caemlyn, back to the river, and the time he spent in Tear before we return to him in TSR.

 

What am I wrong about?

About Mat flirting with serving girls in the inn he met Thom in. You've said so twice, and finally asked if you needed to show me the quote. I answered that you needn't bother, because none exists (after having read the entire chapter again).

 

I offered two choices, one of them has to be correct, unless there is some unknown 3rd. Either he's always been that way (Which you refute) or he learned it in 15 days (which is crazy in my opinion). So, unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly (which is possible), how can I be wrong on both fronts?

This isn't what I said you were wrong about, but as a matter of fact I do think you are. He clearly wasn't a womanizer in TV. The ride to Tear took more than 15 days (33 to be exact), although I've conceded that through most of it he couldn't have had much contact with women (although, sailors are also a good resource for womanizing ways, if you ask me). Then, another 16 days elapse before we meet Mat again. Yes, that's a short time, but given the preexisting desire and plenty of chances, he could already be juggling serving maids by the time we meet him again.

[Vardar]

How do you practice coming on to girls on a boat full of men? (Seriously curious)

You don't, I admitted as much. I was thinking of the ride to Caemlyn, back to the river, and the time he spent in Tear before we return to him in TSR.

 

What am I wrong about?

About Mat flirting with serving girls in the inn he met Thom in. You've said so twice, and finally asked if you needed to show me the quote. I answered that you needn't bother, because none exists (after having read the entire chapter again).

 

I offered two choices, one of them has to be correct, unless there is some unknown 3rd. Either he's always been that way (Which you refute) or he learned it in 15 days (which is crazy in my opinion). So, unless I'm reading what you're saying incorrectly (which is possible), how can I be wrong on both fronts?

This isn't what I said you were wrong about, but as a matter of fact I do think you are. He clearly wasn't a womanizer in TV. The ride to Tear took more than 15 days (33 to be exact), although I've conceded that through most of it he couldn't have had much contact with women (although, sailors are also a good resource for womanizing ways, if you ask me). Then, another 16 days elapse before we meet Mat again. Yes, that's a short time, but given the preexisting desire and plenty of chances, he could already be juggling serving maids by the time we meet him again.

 

It's Chapter 31, TDR. I was going to provide a quote, but it's the entirity of the chapter. You have to read between the lines, he's flirting those women, talking about their twinkling eyes, and smiles. They respond to it and he's not taken aback. He's shocked when she stops flirting because he purchased Thom a drink.

 

He's hitting on those women.

 

Rereading his travels from The River to the City proper, I'll add more later.

[yoniy0]

He's hitting on those women.

I assume you've read the chapter again, otherwise you wouldn't have said what you did. Well then, show me two lines of text, where the flirting goes on in between. He hardly exchanges two words with one maid before she discovered he's ordered drinks for Thom and starts staring daggers at him.

[Vardar]

He's hitting on those women.

I assume you've read the chapter again, otherwise you wouldn't have said what you did. Well then, show me two lines of text, where the flirting goes on in between. He hardly exchanges two words with one maid before she discovered he's ordered drinks for Thom and starts staring daggers at him.

 

Body language. All the smiling, the pretty eyes, the twinkling eyes, it's flirting, he was hitting on them. And quite hard!

 

You don't have to speak to hit on someone.

[yoniy0]

Quote, please.

[Vardar]

Quote, please.

 

Chapter 31 man. Maybe I can copy the entire chapter when I get home on the rig, but I'm not going to type it out at work. I'll leave a note to myself. It's a short chapter, just Mat and Thom.

[he who comes with a bong]

Quote, please.

 

 

It is great watching you too argue this point back and forth for the last few days.

 

Edited to add this: After rummaging a bit, he brought out two silver pennies from his pocket. One more than paid for the wine, but he slipped her another for her eyes "my friend will be joining me " towards the end of the chapter we get a quote from one of the serving girls " For whatever it is that you said. Besides, whoever is feeding you is not doing a good job of it, but you still have pretty eyes" She laughed at the expresion on his face

[Vardar]

Quote, please.

 

 

It is great watching you too argue this point back and forth for the last few days.

 

I'm pretty sure it just comes down to a difference of opinion of what flirting is. I'm a firm believer that flirting is more in the mannerisms and not the words. I'm a shameless flirt, and hit on women with no words, or across the room on a daily basis. "The Look" can be a dangerous thing

[yoniy0]

Thanks bong!

Vardarmus, I went back and reread not only chapter 31, but chapter 30 as well (Mat's way from the Tower to that place he found Thom at), and as I'm sure you can deduce from my incessant refusal to accept your argument, I completely disagree. It's kind of difficult to prove a negative, however, so after stating what I did and rejecting your conclusion, I'm left with nothing else to do but insist that you provide concrete support for your argument ("it's there, trust me" isn't good enough, not when I obviously didn't anything of the sort). Not that you're under any obligation to do so, but you won't change my mind unless you do (which, in all honesty, should've been apparent from the first time I asked for a quote).

[he who comes with a bong]

I just happened to read that chapter this morning.

[Vardar]

It wasn't just that Bong:

 

He took a table, setting his things on the floor by his stool, and ordered two mugs. The pretty young serving girl's big rown eyes twinkled at him.

"two , young master? You do not look such a hard-drinking man as that." Her voice held a mischievous edge of laughter.

After rummaging a bit, he brought out two silver pennies from his pocket. One more than paid for the wine, but he slipped her another for her eyes.

 

To me that read as she was giving him the look, he took note of it, and didn't shy back. The next page when she rounded on him, he noted the twinkle was gone, she was upset with him.

 

I guess if you don't see it as flirting, that's ok.