What if Elaida had been successful

[driedraspberry]

I always wondered what would have happened if Elaida had successfully brought Rand to the WT. Would DO's victory been inevitable? Perhaps not. Why did Taim come to Rand's aid? If he is a darkfriend/dreadlord as the evidence suggests, the orders would've come from the DO. So it makes me wonder if the world would've been less chaotic if Rand had been imprisoned for a substantial amount of time. Seanchan would likely have invaded Illian, Arad Doman, and Tear, possibly Cairhein too. Armed with Seanchan's military might, Randland would've stood more united and more of a threat in time for TG.

 

As for Rand, being held captive at the WT/by AS has always been one of his biggest fears, from as early as when he first realized he could channel. I imagine the transformation to dark Rand could've been accelerated, or he could've overcome that fear in the course of his captivity and reached his epiphany through a different course. And I suppose, being shielded constantly would limit how much taint he'd have been exposed to, to the point of his capture. And there is a good chance he would have eventually escaped. The Aiel and Asha'man might have join forces with the Rebel AS to make it happen. Or his escape could simply have come down to Egwene, had the rebels' plot remained mostly unchanged.

 

Things like saidin being cleansed and Elayne's pregnancy could still happen, if delayed. But then a few more forsaken would still be alive for TG. Alivia would still be a damane. Most importantly though, Moridin and Rand wouldn't be connected. The scales seem about even on the good and bad, I would say. Still, if Taim is a dreadlord I assume some good would've come out of Rand's captivity.

[JerseyMouse]

I am starting my second read through of the series but am only in TGH. I have made some notes and was wondering if you might be able to answer a question? In chapter 51 Against the shadow, How does Rand get from the blight to the battlefield in Tarwins Gap and back again? Does he travel and not know it?

[TootThatHorn]

I am starting my second read through of the series but am only in TGH. I have made some notes and was wondering if you might be able to answer a question? In chapter 51 Against the shadow, How does Rand get from the blight to the battlefield in Tarwins Gap and back again? Does he travel and not know it?

 

I was just thinking about this as well. It's a question better suited for the thread "Ask a simple question, get a simple answer," but if you ask me it was teleportation which I always wrote off as an early bookism.

[Dagon Thyne]

I am starting my second read through of the series but am only in TGH. I have made some notes and was wondering if you might be able to answer a question? In chapter 51 Against the shadow, How does Rand get from the blight to the battlefield in Tarwins Gap and back again? Does he travel and not know it?

 

it's possible that he traveled. It is not the first time that he's used a high level weave without knowing it. He used balefire to cut through Ishy's link to the DO at the end of EOTW.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well, if Rand had been brought to the Tower, I think it would have doomed everyone.

 

As Egwene points out to Elaida before she gets smacked around, how could she keep him in the Tower? He has to be free to fulfil the prophecies.

 

In regards to Taim, I believe the Shadow's plan wasn't so much preventing him from going to the Tower because it would be a good thing, but capturing him, treating him with brutality, making him despise Aes Sedai then setting him free, now at war with the Tower.

[TristanWebb]

He wasn't at the battlefield. He was doing the same thing he did at Falme, half in TAR and half not.

[rand4747]

and on dragonmount to.

[Darksmoon]

I believe that the capture and then release of Rand was part of turning him into 'Dark Rand'. His attitudes shift quite a bit after he is captured.

[Durinax]

if rand would have been taken to the tower, he would not have been treated gently (possibly worse than how Galina treated him). He may have become desparate enough to turn to the dark side

[Maleshub]

Well, if Rand had been brought to the Tower, I think it would have doomed everyone.

 

As Egwene points out to Elaida before she gets smacked around, how could she keep him in the Tower? He has to be free to fulfil the prophecies.

 

In regards to Taim, I believe the Shadow's plan wasn't so much preventing him from going to the Tower because it would be a good thing, but capturing him, treating him with brutality, making him despise Aes Sedai then setting him free, now at war with the Tower.

 

My hunch is that the plan to take Rand to the WT was, by its perpetrators, a plan to keep him leashed. Here is what Mesaana said in LoC:

 

"Yes. Are we to kill al’Thor?" Mesaana realized she was gripping her skirt with both hands and let go. Strange. She never let anyone get under her skin. "If all goes well, in two months, three at most, he will be where I can safely reach him, and helpless."

[Barid Bel Medar]

That was Mesaana's plan before Demandred talked to her with news from the DO.

 

Even if Mesaana hadn't known about the plan, the DO still likely planned it exactly how it happened.

[skyfirex]

Why did Taim come to Rand's aid? If he is a darkfriend/dreadlord as the evidence suggests, the orders would've come from the DO.

 

Let the Lord of Chaos rule. Taim wanted (still wants?) a war with Aes Sedai, to further chaos and disunity among the Light side.

[driedraspberry]

Why did Taim come to Rand's aid? If he is a darkfriend/dreadlord as the evidence suggests, the orders would've come from the DO.

 

Let the Lord of Chaos rule. Taim wanted (still wants?) a war with Aes Sedai, to further chaos and disunity among the Light side.

 

I thought that's what Seanchan are for.

 

I still do wonder though if Seanchan dominance could've put Randland in a better position for TG, if not after.

[Alonin]

driedraspberry

First, Rand in the tower would have likely been an unparalleled disaster in many ways. As some of the rebels said "it would be sheer luck if Elaida didn't panic and gentle him," or something like that. Also, Mesaana was in the tower. Right within arms reach of one of the forsaken and the black ajah. He probably would have been either severed, Compelled by Mesaana, or turned 13X13 style. In which case, the Dark One wins.

Second, If he was in the tower and none of the above happend and the Seanchen conquered most of the world, chances are that the Seanchen would have taken the white tower by then, and then Rand would be in the hands of the Seanchen and their a'dams. Still unable to fulfill prophecies, and unable to do what is necessary. And semirhage was with the seanchen, so she'd gain control of Rand whether by Tuon or Suroth.

Third, it probably didn't matter to the Dark One whether Rand made it to the tower or not. He probably planned for both. Mesaana and black ajah waiting in the tower, and armies of asha'man, aes sedai, aiel, wetlanders, and seanchen in the rest of the world. Either one would cause choas of epic proportions. So even if Taim is a darkfriend, rand's rescue caused chaos, and if Taim's rescue failed, Rand in the tower likely under his control, wetlander and aiel armies duking it out all over the world while the forsaken tear it apart more.

[Orderofolde]

If Eliada wasn't so power hungry and so harsh in her punishments she might have actually succeeded. She had a good alliance going with the Whites (and the BA) by making Alviarin her Keeper. Unfortunately that was also the death stroke as Alviarin was BA and began to run things behind the scenes, choose what to share, etc. Everyone lost all respect for Eliada and her delusions of grandeur building her own palace? If she would have spun that differently as a benefit to the whole tower she would have had a lot more help from the sisters. She did everything wrong. And the only way she succeeded in capturing Rand was having someone else do it for her. And I don't really count her as "discovering" Elayne, the daughter and sons of a woman that could channel had a high chance of having the gene. She was Red and living in the Palace, after all. As unfriendly as she was I don't think Morgause really had much choice choosing her as an adviser.

[Ozzie_aiel]

If he was taken to the Tower he would've gotten away, the pattern would make sure of it. The result would probably be the collapse of the White Tower and wholesale destruction of Tar Valon however.