Ability to Channel

[Alric]

That the ability is scarce is something I don't have a problem with. There is a genetic component, but it can also appear randomly. Sure, the powers are great but its not like not being able to channel doesn't mean you can have a fulfilling life. And being able to channel doesn't mean that your intelligence, talents or personality is any better than others.

 

The thing I do have a problem with is the longer lifespan of channelers. It does border on ridiculous. Kirstian looks a little older than Nynaeve and is more than 300. Some of the stronger ones in the books will probably have an expectancy of 1000 years. In some senses this makes them not human at all. The things you can do with the Power and the life expectancy certainly sets these people apart. I've been familiar with Randland since I was a teenager and I'm used to it, so its not like its a huge issue for me, but when you sit down and think about it... there are problematic implications. I think RJ also realized this, and that was probably why in the AoL channelers were "servants of all" and had many obligations so that they would not be tempted to abuse their powers.

[Suttree]

Yes Barid, that is exactly what is being discussed. We are talking of that top percentile. The "elite" would represent the people who can channel. Every top athlete, Rafa and Federer(since tennis was being discussed) are both in that class so not sure what noliron's point was that Rafa is better on clay. That would be similar to one channeler being strong in earth while another was in spirit. The point being if you dont have that inherent ability to start with, no amount of will or training will make you "elite". Now don't get me wrong, those qualities are very important and thats what separate the "elite" and the true legends. The ones who become all time greats have those qualities in spades.

[Vardar]

I think the money thing was aimed at the fact that you can buy an education.

 

It is indeed unrealistic that everyone would be able to manifest a supernatural ability. It would be like saying everyone in the world had the ability to become Einstein and Lionel Messi, which is simply not true.

 

Eh, that can be argued I guess was his point. It's never been proven one way or the other if all geniuses are born. Although it's obvious some are, some others work their way to that level.

 

So I guess saying every "normal" person (For lack of a nicer way to say it) has the potential to become a genius is the basic idea.

[Agitel]

I may be getting confused here, but I thought we were talking about the elite. Only 1% of the population can channel this age, 2-3% at the height in the AoL. Almost half that of the graduate percentage, according to your results.

 

So these people ARE the elite, really. However, it is not as simple as having the ability born into you. Most of these channelers can learn, but don't have the spark. So they don't even know about it unless someone tells them and helps them "awaken" the power. Not sure of the exact number, but around 1/5 are sparkers, who will channel naturally, whether they like it or not. 1/4 will die if they are not picked up and guided, and they may die anyway. Some have blocks which they must break through, like Nynaeve. Even just learning to channel ordinarily takes weeks. It certainly took Egwene weeks to just hold the power consistently, let alone do anything with it and Rand by himself took longer until he got a teacher.

 

I think the problem, if there is one, is the relative ease that strong channelers have with most weaves. They don't just start from the bottom and work their way up, and they have an easier time of it than the weaker ones. So it does seem like it is easy. However, at the same time, the more power one wields, the more dangerous it becomes for them. IT isn't something easily handled, It is extremely dangerous, very much like a drug. One slip and you could destroy yourself.

 

So even strength is not that big a problem. It is like physical strength. Each person has a "default" strength, some are naturally stronger than others. The "weaker" people can train and become stronger, but usually not to the level of someone who is ordinarily strong.

 

@ norlion, you don't seem to be understanding me. Nobility and serfdom is a totally different thing. Nobility had nothing apart from titles separating them from the peasants, not any actual physical or mental difference, it was only opportunity. While I have all the opportunity in the world to become an NFL star, I can assure you no amount of hard work could make me nearly so good.

 

Education is not an apt example, the testing methods are inherently flawed. As you said, most people with an average level of intelligence can pass most things, I agree. But passing exams through hard work memorizing answers does not = understanding. Many people with the best results don't actually know half of what they are supposed to. They memorize equations, sentences and quotes for the tests without actually understanding. If you asked them to explain on the spot, they couldn't. Not to say that they are stupid, but the example is flawed.

 

Again, I think you misunderstand. We are talking about channeling, this IS the top 1% of the population. These are the NFL superstars, where the gift is extremely important. And even then, the top 10% of the 1% are "extra gifted".

 

My examples are not directed at the majority, I did not mean to imply that the 99% were of no consequence. As I mentioned, the ability with the Power does not make these people gods, nor are the best NFL players. They are simply people who have a special ability, as it is with the elite in real life. I surely don't think Mat or Perrin are any less than Rand Egwene and Nynaeve. They have other virtues and strengths, just as your "average" person can be better suited to certain things. Einstein was a brilliantly gifted man, one of the best in his field with a gift few others could match, but ask him to play NFL, I would think that your "average" person would be able to beat him with ease.

 

It is indeed unrealistic that everyone would be able to manifest a supernatural ability. It would be like saying everyone in the world had the ability to become Einstein and Lionel Messi, which is simply not true.

 

No idea what you mean with the money thing, that has no bearing on the discussion. The person is still gifted whether they go to Oxford or not. Money does not detract or add to a persons natural ability. Only the quality of education and efficiency. (I wasn't really clear, but I was using Oxford as a benchmark of ability, not if the person could pay for it or not.) In which case, money does not apply in WoT with regards to channeling. The poorest could be stronger than the richest, which is the ideal thing for democracy is it not?

 

Point being, it is consistent with reality that only a select few ever gain what could be considered "unnatural" ability.

 

But again, everyone can play football, even if they can't compete in the NFL.

 

I'm not complaining about the Wheel of Time. I'm not bothered by the magic system. But I would like to see fantasy find more creative and, imo, better and less cliche ways of making magic use scarce. Not everyone has to, but I'd like to see more of it. Perhaps being able to use magic requires years of meditation to reach enlightenment, a nirvana like state? Anybody with the discipline could do it, but it requires intense dedication so that only few can do it. Or perhaps it requires access to a scarce resource and then years of training afterwards? I don't know.

[nolirion]

I may be getting confused here, but I thought we were talking about the elite. Only 1% of the population can channel this age, 2-3% at the height in the AoL. Almost half that of the graduate percentage, according to your results.

 

So these people ARE the elite, really. However, it is not as simple as having the ability born into you. Most of these channelers can learn, but don't have the spark. So they don't even know about it unless someone tells them and helps them "awaken" the power. Not sure of the exact number, but around 1/5 are sparkers, who will channel naturally, whether they like it or not. 1/4 will die if they are not picked up and guided, and they may die anyway. Some have blocks which they must break through, like Nynaeve. Even just learning to channel ordinarily takes weeks. It certainly took Egwene weeks to just hold the power consistently, let alone do anything with it and Rand by himself took longer until he got a teacher.

 

I think the problem, if there is one, is the relative ease that strong channelers have with most weaves. They don't just start from the bottom and work their way up, and they have an easier time of it than the weaker ones. So it does seem like it is easy. However, at the same time, the more power one wields, the more dangerous it becomes for them. IT isn't something easily handled, It is extremely dangerous, very much like a drug. One slip and you could destroy yourself.

 

So even strength is not that big a problem. It is like physical strength. Each person has a "default" strength, some are naturally stronger than others. The "weaker" people can train and become stronger, but usually not to the level of someone who is ordinarily strong.

 

@ norlion, you don't seem to be understanding me. Nobility and serfdom is a totally different thing. Nobility had nothing apart from titles separating them from the peasants, not any actual physical or mental difference, it was only opportunity. While I have all the opportunity in the world to become an NFL star, I can assure you no amount of hard work could make me nearly so good.

 

Education is not an apt example, the testing methods are inherently flawed. As you said, most people with an average level of intelligence can pass most things, I agree. But passing exams through hard work memorizing answers does not = understanding. Many people with the best results don't actually know half of what they are supposed to. They memorize equations, sentences and quotes for the tests without actually understanding. If you asked them to explain on the spot, they couldn't. Not to say that they are stupid, but the example is flawed.

 

Again, I think you misunderstand. We are talking about channeling, this IS the top 1% of the population. These are the NFL superstars, where the gift is extremely important. And even then, the top 10% of the 1% are "extra gifted".

 

My examples are not directed at the majority, I did not mean to imply that the 99% were of no consequence. As I mentioned, the ability with the Power does not make these people gods, nor are the best NFL players. They are simply people who have a special ability, as it is with the elite in real life. I surely don't think Mat or Perrin are any less than Rand Egwene and Nynaeve. They have other virtues and strengths, just as your "average" person can be better suited to certain things. Einstein was a brilliantly gifted man, one of the best in his field with a gift few others could match, but ask him to play NFL, I would think that your "average" person would be able to beat him with ease.

 

It is indeed unrealistic that everyone would be able to manifest a supernatural ability. It would be like saying everyone in the world had the ability to become Einstein and Lionel Messi, which is simply not true.

 

No idea what you mean with the money thing, that has no bearing on the discussion. The person is still gifted whether they go to Oxford or not. Money does not detract or add to a persons natural ability. Only the quality of education and efficiency. (I wasn't really clear, but I was using Oxford as a benchmark of ability, not if the person could pay for it or not.) In which case, money does not apply in WoT with regards to channeling. The poorest could be stronger than the richest, which is the ideal thing for democracy is it not?

 

Point being, it is consistent with reality that only a select few ever gain what could be considered "unnatural" ability.

 

 

Oh yes absolutely, we where not talking about the same thing at all and on that point I agree with you ,for different reason , when we talk about supernatural ability will is off little consequence , it is important but not as the gift itself .

The point of channeling been rare is to be consistent with reality . Myself I got caught in a discussion about average person and my point was that anyone could rise near the point of the "elite" with enough will .

Simply put the elite been the max attainable , normal people could go at 75% of that ratio , idealistically speaking 85 %. While the gap might seem little it is .

 

I was bothering with the term of elite , it is considered to be a closed group of people and that is plainly wrong , and that is what fair in channeling everyone have a random chance to get the abilities . But even then while strong in the power have ease with most weave , both in learning and practicing , a weaker person can hold is own against one gifted if he is not trained .

When you talked about Oxford I got all riled , I find it a shame that all college don't abide by the same standard as the "elite" school , when most of this elite school are difficult to access , if you are a exceptional student you get a scholarship but most get through with money and this scleroses the elite .

Understand that I am not speaking of the "elite " as exceptional human but the "elite " as the common term of "ruling class"

In my country to get accepted in university like polytechnique or math sup , you don't have to be wealthy you can get in by your merit alone , but we have learned that in fact only offspring of the elite fostered by these school get in .

Why ? because the method of selection is only half about your intellectual prowess and more about the way you are conditioned to answer the question of the test , that way there is a bias , and it is extremely difficult for people of lower class to get it , in this is prejudicial to the system as it closed itself and never renew intellectually speaking .

I am sorry this was not the argument and only shared little to the op thread .

But I remain convince , like Vardarmus said more clearly , that everyone as the potential to rise to the level of a genius maybe not in strength of the one power.

Yet it make me wonder , I don't remember is name but Rand talked about the man who crafted incredible thing with the one power in the age of legend . Thing Rand could only dream of , was he more powerful then rand ?

[TristanWebb]

Actually advancing science or maths to a significant degree takes an intuitive leap that comes from understanding your subject matter and seeing things beyond it. This isn't something we have worked out how to teach yet. It isn't even something we know how to test. You don't have to be exceptionally smart to makes those leaps, but you do need to know your subject matter intensely which does tend to put dumb people at a disadvantage. So yes, geniuses are born, just like great anything are born, but you can make smaller steps without having the gift if you work hard enough.

[Barid Bel Medar]

@norilon

 

Yeah, I thought so, and I wanted to make it clear that it was a different thing I meant, it is hard to communicate it when there are several meanings for a word etc..

 

I agree with you that an average person could boost their "averageness" to the typical "elite" class.

 

But as you mentioned, this was not my intention.

 

Channelling is hard to compare, as it is not something as mundane as Football. A more accurate comparison would be a Savant http://en.wikipedia....Savant_syndrome, and other strange things you hear of. "Unnatural" abilities, if you will. Something like this cannot be simply worked towards.

 

In the same vein, my point was that Channelling is something extraordinary, that, in my opinion, it would be unrealistic if everyone could do it. Typically people do not have access to exceptional abilities. I mean, that is what makes living so interesting, each person is unique, everyone has strengths and weaknesses, things they simply cannot understand or achieve, while having the ability to do something else with ease.

 

The notion of "everyone can do anything with work" sounds to me too much like saying we are like a new computer, everyone starting with 100TB Ram and 1000TB free space. We are not the same, we each have things that make us who we are. To me, channelling is no different. To have such an extraordinary ability become such a mundane and average thing makes it pointless.

 

@agitel : A fair point, perhaps there are more "perfected' ways of describing an ability, I am not saying that channelling and the physics surrounding it are perfect, however, I think it is an accurate and appropriate comparison to something in real life, like Savants or people who claim to have special abilities like prophetic dreams etc.. And I accept that some things people are just born with. It doesn't get me angry that I can't become the greatest Tennis player in the world, no matter how I try, as much as I would like to be.

[Vardar]

Actually advancing science or maths to a significant degree takes an intuitive leap that comes from understanding your subject matter and seeing things beyond it. This isn't something we have worked out how to teach yet. It isn't even something we know how to test. You don't have to be exceptionally smart to makes those leaps, but you do need to know your subject matter intensely which does tend to put dumb people at a disadvantage. So yes, geniuses are born, just like great anything are born, but you can make smaller steps without having the gift if you work hard enough.

 

If we don't understand how the leap occurs, you can't say you're born with it.

 

I suppose now it's a matter of semantics. You say great anything are born, I say you'll never know if they don't put forth the effort, and at that point, it's hard to tell which were born naturally talented, or which fought for every scrap to achieve greatness.

 

That's not to say some aren't born gifted, but it's a healthy mix that exists.

[Wandering Channeler]

1% is definitely not NFL superstars. An NFL roster is allowed 90 players. There are 32 teams so thats 2880 players. There are 31,646,267 males age 20-34 in America. That means if you are in the NFL you are in of the 0.00009% of males age 20-34, and that is every player on every team, not just the superstars. So being an NFL superstar is on a much higher level than being a channeler in Randland, as in maybe Rand and Ishy would be superstars, but most of the rest of the channelers are way out of that percentile. Taking it a step farther, a D1 college team is allowed 105 players on its roster and there are 120 D1 college football teams. Thats 12,600 D1 college football players. The percentage of males age 20-34 that are on a D1 college football team is 0.0004%.

 

So saying NFL superstar is clearly not the case for almost every channeler in Randland.

 

I think we are getting away from my point. Yes it would be difficult for the story if everyone could channel. Yes it would take away from the awesomeness of the characters we see on stage. No I am not suggesting that this should be different or is incorrect. Yes I understand life isn't fair. I just know if I was in Randland I would prefer that everyone could channel and that your ability in it was determined by the effort you put in and not by a given amount you were born with.

 

Would it not mean more to everyone if Rand worked towards becoming the best channeler in Randland based off of a level playing field compared to he just is the most powerful because he is the dragon?

[nolirion]

Actually advancing science or maths to a significant degree takes an intuitive leap that comes from understanding your subject matter and seeing things beyond it. This isn't something we have worked out how to teach yet. It isn't even something we know how to test. You don't have to be exceptionally smart to makes those leaps, but you do need to know your subject matter intensely which does tend to put dumb people at a disadvantage. So yes, geniuses are born, just like great anything are born, but you can make smaller steps without having the gift if you work hard enough.

And without the smaller steps the grand leap made by geniuses are rarer if they occur at all

@ Barid Bel Medar

I completely agree with you channeling ability by itself and for realism need to be rare as all magic in fantasy , I made that point earlier in the thread , fantasy need to keep element of reality ,if not you jump into story that don't make sense . This is not as much a cliche as a standard .

@ Wandering channeler ,

While I understand your point and I would agree I would totally enjoy been able to channel you don't have to channel to have a nice or a great life .

 

 

Edit sorry if I was not clear enough earlier

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think we are getting away from my point. Yes it would be difficult for the story if everyone could channel. Yes it would take away from the awesomeness of the characters we see on stage. No I am not suggesting that this should be different or is incorrect. Yes I understand life isn't fair. I just know if I was in Randland I would prefer that everyone could channel and that your ability in it was determined by the effort you put in and not by a given amount you were born with.

 

Would it not mean more to everyone if Rand worked towards becoming the best channeler in Randland based off of a level playing field compared to he just is the most powerful because he is the dragon?

 

To be quite honest, it would be bloody boring.

 

Would I like to be a top ranked channeller? You bet.

 

Would I want a world where anyone could be the greatest channeller if they tried hard enough? No.

 

As I put in earlier post, it would begin to stray into the realm of computers and robotics. (Now obviously this is far from what you meant, just using it as a way to compare)

 

Who doesn't want to feel special? To be able to do something few other can?

 

That is what makes people strive for greatness, a sense of - to be put bluntly- superiority in a selected field.

 

If it were a simple matter of will, it makes things dull. Effort and hard work is all very good, but it is those few people that do something NOBODY could dream of that makes us excited.

 

Not to say that I don't value hard work and willpower, I definitely do, it sometimes means more, as you say, if it is not simply a gift. But it takes the meaning out of it if anyone can achieve something.

 

edit: Obvously this is just my opinion on the matter, and I am not saying that anyone's is wrong. It was just that the topic asked the question. So I answered.

[nolirion]

Barid there is a strong flaw in your point , you think that once at the top you are finished , well this is far from the truth and while I agree some people strive for greatness to achieve dominion or superiority over other that is not something that last .

There is no top in life only in closed and human construct do you achieved something close to the top end and event there most of the time you only get to another challenge .

To make an analogies I would quote my old science teacher " the more you learn , the more you realize how little you know " if everyone could become a top channeller even them there would be difference in power ,between those that would wan't to learn and those who learned , and a thousand other difference .

 

The world would be so different in so many ways it would be alien to us , that is the beauties of organic we can all rise to become great but we would do so in a billions different ways .

If that is cheesy than call me susy

Edit to be perfectly clear I don't wan't to impose my view on you , as you do I only state my opinion .

[Wandering Channeler]

I didn't ask if the story would be dull or boring, just whether it would mean more? If not that is fine, I just think it would mean more.

 

Why would you not want a world where a person can become whatever they want?

 

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

[nolirion]

I didn't ask if the story would be dull or boring, just whether it would mean more? If not that is fine, I just think it would mean more.

 

Why would you not want a world where a person can become whatever they want?

 

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

Been gifted don't exempt you of hard work on the contrary , I would work twice as hard to see my gift not go to waste .

[Suttree]

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

 

Shrug. That's pretty much how life is. Yes hard work and determination take you far but the fact is people are born with different gifts and the ability to be better in certain fields. Don't really see the issue.

[shortkut]

Occupy Tar Valon

[Vardar]

I think we are getting away from my point. Yes it would be difficult for the story if everyone could channel. Yes it would take away from the awesomeness of the characters we see on stage. No I am not suggesting that this should be different or is incorrect. Yes I understand life isn't fair. I just know if I was in Randland I would prefer that everyone could channel and that your ability in it was determined by the effort you put in and not by a given amount you were born with.

 

Would it not mean more to everyone if Rand worked towards becoming the best channeler in Randland based off of a level playing field compared to he just is the most powerful because he is the dragon?

 

To be quite honest, it would be bloody boring.

 

Would I like to be a top ranked channeller? You bet.

 

Would I want a world where anyone could be the greatest channeller if they tried hard enough? No.

 

As I put in earlier post, it would begin to stray into the realm of computers and robotics. (Now obviously this is far from what you meant, just using it as a way to compare)

 

Who doesn't want to feel special? To be able to do something few other can?

 

That is what makes people strive for greatness, a sense of - to be put bluntly- superiority in a selected field.

 

If it were a simple matter of will, it makes things dull. Effort and hard work is all very good, but it is those few people that do something NOBODY could dream of that makes us excited.

 

Not to say that I don't value hard work and willpower, I definitely do, it sometimes means more, as you say, if it is not simply a gift. But it takes the meaning out of it if anyone can achieve something.

 

edit: Obvously this is just my opinion on the matter, and I am not saying that anyone's is wrong. It was just that the topic asked the question. So I answered.

 

I've always believed the bolded part to be a lie. Either that, or I'm a lot different than I believe. I've never done something just to be different or better than someone else. My goals/focus has always been on being the best that I can be, at any given thing. If being the best I can be personally, makes me better than someone, good. But it's not the main goal, as some assume. If a billion people could do what I did, it wouldn't take away from the fact that I can do it and I feel good about that.

 

However you are correct that some people are motivated by that fact, just not all.

[Wandering Channeler]

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

 

Shrug. That's pretty much how life is. Yes hard work and determination take you far but the fact is people are born with different gifts and the ability to be better in certain fields. Don't really see the issue.

 

Yep you are right. That's the way the world is and it sucks. No issue, just wish it was different.

 

Vards I agree.

[Agitel]

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

 

Shrug. That's pretty much how life is. Yes hard work and determination take you far but the fact is people are born with different gifts and the ability to be better in certain fields. Don't really see the issue.

 

For one thing, if we stop talking about sports and the rare genius, there are people who are in the elite class of their field simply because they put in the hard work necessary. Inborn gift isn't everything, and can be trumped in a number of things, or is so rare that they hardly dominate the numbers of people who do that type of work. I don't see anything wrong with wishing for a magical system which reflected that. I'm not sure why people are so defensive over this.

 

Second, maybe some people are just born better at things, but we're not just complaining about people being better, we find the idea of exclusivity to be stretched, as is the idea that whether your sit on your hands or practice all day, your end-strength is already pre-determined to an incredibly specific level. Practice and training doesn't improve that. Genes may play some role in real life, but they determine disposition, not the end result. People may have a pre-disposition towards higher muscular mass, or greater ability in math, but hard work and environment play a crucial role. Not so in strength in the One Power.

[Suttree]

Everyone has their own opinion and that is fine. I would prefer a world were effort and hard work are rewarded. I would rather those people that do things that nobody could dream of be from those people's dedication and effort rather then that they were born with the ability to be better at a certain field.

 

Shrug. That's pretty much how life is. Yes hard work and determination take you far but the fact is people are born with different gifts and the ability to be better in certain fields. Don't really see the issue.

 

For one thing, if we stop talking about sports and the rare genius, there are people who are in the elite class of their field simply because they put in the hard work necessary. Inborn gift isn't everything, and can be trumped in a number of things, or is so rare that they hardly dominate the numbers of people who do that type of work. I don't see anything wrong with wishing for a magical system which reflected that. I'm not sure why people are so defensive over this.

 

Second, maybe some people are just born better at things, but we're not just complaining about people being better, we find the idea of exclusivity to be stretched, as is the idea that whether your sit on your hands or practice all day, your end-strength is already pre-determined to an incredibly specific level. Practice and training doesn't improve that. Genes may play some role in real life, but they determine disposition, not the end result. People may have a pre-disposition towards higher muscular mass, or greater ability in math, but hard work and environment play a crucial role. Not so in strength in the One Power.

 

Not sure how shrugging and saying that's life is defensive?

 

In addition sports and the rare genius are pretty much the only things that we can use to show a real life example of channeling. Lastly no one has argued that hard work and will don't play a role. If you go back and read through the posts that is quite clear.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't think anyone is being defensive here, myself, the tone of my posts is meant to be light-hearted, although I doubt it conveys it. While I am not just making up anything, my posts are obviously exaggerated. It is talking about a fictional power and fictional scenarios.

 

I do agree with most of the points made, for me there is no "right" answer, I can understand everyone's points here.

 

WC: Yes, it would mean more if Rand did it simply through hard work rather than it being something he already had. But he does do hard work, all of the channelling characters have to work hard to earn their right as powerful characters. Yes they have an inborn ability, but its not like they just woke up and suddenly able to kill thousands of people while healing thousands more. Rand had to endure the Taint, for one. But I suppose it isn't exactly relevant. I just think that some assume that channelling is a great gift with no negatives, which is not true.

 

I suppose I would find it tedious if hard work and willpower dictated the skill level of something. I can't imagine the types of people who would be at the top, singularly dedicated and exceptionally intense. It would be like Tallanvor x 1000.

 

We need the Mat Cauthons of the world to balance things out.

 

Point being, not just in terms of story, but in life itself, it would be far duller if hard work and willpower were the ONLY ways to be extraordinary.

 

So as such, I think that people with "gifts" of some kind have their place in the world as much as hard work and will.

 

(Granted, in reality, 9/10 anything achieved is done through hard work, I think everyone can agree. But it is nice to see some people just naturally extraordinary.)

 

@Vardarmus : In general, you are right. I mean, I don't go out of my way to be different. In fact, far from it. I am pretty average in most ways, good at some things, poor at others. I was talking more along the lines of progress and human achievement, not necessarily each individual person. (although I did say everyone, I was embellishing a bit )

 

But people wouldn't have done half of the things they have done if not for wanting to do something unique. Julius Caesar didn't do it for fun, he wanted to be remembered as a great man. Alexander the Great, Charlemagne. Hundreds of people could have figured out gravity on their own, however we remember one man for it, Newton, who was the first.

 

Wont go on, since it is getting way of topic, but the desire, for being unique is a part of human nature, if not in everyone.

[nolirion]

Well I am going to disagree , it would be far too easy and far more dull if you had everything handed to you , life need a little more hardship to be savored .

 

So do you prefer to be a sheep or a lion ?

[Cybertrolloc]

Meh, I've turned unlikely people into scientists, it's not rocket science to do that :)

 

Football is a team sport, and numbers produced rely on everyone on the team as well as other things outside your control and many other things I don't want to delve into. Better would be to look at say weightlifting or running. Not only are there pretty hard numbers, there's also many studies in how people generally improve with so much training effort.

 

Better: your progress in going from omigod olver = gaidal to whatever amount of worthless WoT info you have crammed in your head now :) Is luckers genetically gifted and you're not?

 

Similarly success in any field relies on many things outside your control. It's life, and it doesn't say fair on the tin.

[Sharaman]

Yep some people are born tone-deaf or at the other extreme, with perfect pitch.

It happens.

[Vardar]

Yep some people are born tone-deaf or at the other extreme, with perfect pitch.

It happens.

 

Now that's a good example. I'm not even sure if that can be learned.

 

Actually, is it proven that people are born tone death, or is it something due to hearing music in the womb or when they're a baby? My mother is pretty damn tone death, but I'm sure as hell not. I had a lot of music around me as a child however. (My twin is tone-death as well, she didnt enjoy music as much as I did)